|
Author
|
Topic: VHA Calling Contest
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted December 11, 2011 08:00 AM
We had the VHA contest yesterday here in Pierre.
41 teams, 40 some degree weather, light winds, full moon, nice day!!
6 coyotes won it, 5 teams had 5, paid out 5 places so one team with 5 ended up just out of the money.
Ties broken by total weight.
71 coyotes killed total, 38 pound coyote won big dog and I believe around 21 won little dog.
One team showed up 3 minutes late with 5 and another about 5 minutes late with 6, so you could add 11 more on to the total killed. The one with 5 had a flat tire 6 miles from the check in!! Both teams really deserve a pat on the back, no bitchin or carrying on etc.
It's a well run deal like all the VHA stuff is!
It was good to see and visit with a lot of callers you only see at these types of deals.
The VHA Video Hunt is next weekend, only the coyotes caught on film count to your total for the day. Three man teams. It's great to sit around afterwards and watch the raw footage and as usual the great BS sessions that develope with a few beers. IMO that's the highlight of the day!!
[ December 11, 2011, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Randy Roede ]
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted December 11, 2011 09:38 AM
Good report, Randy. Thanks.
I have had this disagreement with Huber for years, about tiebreakers. I strongly believe ties should be broken by arrival time. Weight is completely arbitrary, and as you mentioned in your report, two teams paid the price for not checking in on time. That tells me that the organizers place a value on getting back on time and logically, the first team back with 5 coyotes deserves second place, not the team way in the back of the line with a kill that weighs one pound more.
I don't get total weight, and I never will.
gh....lb
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
|
posted December 11, 2011 10:54 AM
I agree Leonard all of our two day hunts are broken by check-in time. Less time in the field and same number of coyotes equals the better placing.
--------------------
"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
|
posted December 11, 2011 11:08 AM
Thanks for the report. I have not entered any contests since my little guy was born. I kind of miss those highlights you speak of.
I have never hunted one where the weight was the tie breaker. From a participants stand point, I guess it eliminates that decision of when to go "all in".
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted December 11, 2011 11:31 AM
Bryan, I bet that last hunt you speak of was where we met, in Williams?
Here's the deal on tiebreakers. There have been reports of teams dangerously speeding and passing other teams on the road, and the other team responding by making a race out of it.
Well, it's hard to make rules to deal with idiots but what we have done is disqualify anybody driving recklessly, or breaking the speed limit and that seems to take care of it, one way or the other.
But, you already have the big dog and little dog and that seems to me to be enough focus on the size of the coyote, which, otherwise, who the hell cares how much he weighs?
Some people have said; oh, but it takes more skill to shoot a larger animal. BS. Sometimes, it's the alpha that rushes in without caution, and sometimes it's the shy YOY that hangs up and is difficult to put a bullet into. Works both ways, and I see no skill relating to a contest in deciding winners by the size of the animal.
If that's the case, forget about numbers and award all the money to the heaviest animal, then next heaviest, etc.
gh....lb
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
|
posted December 11, 2011 04:40 PM
That would be the one Leonard. I can't believe it has been 5 years.
I know full well that it takes a lot of work to put on a quality event. Some people have to sit out, or cut their hunts short to take care of things that need to be done. THOSE people are hard to find. No one person can do it themselves. Everyone wants to show up and play though.
It seems weighing every coyote adds to the work load at the minimum.
I do prefer the arrival time tie breaker but I don't think total weight would keep me from playing. It would about guarantee I would be racing in close to the cut off time though.
With 5 teams with the same number of coyotes I can only assume that a place or two may have been decided by ounces?
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted December 11, 2011 06:39 PM
But............what about really important stuff like white tips on the tails????? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
|
posted December 11, 2011 07:02 PM
I like the total weight deal. Sounds like a good tie breaker to me.
Mature coyotes take a greater amount of skill "most of the time" to put on the ground than yoy that have not been messed with.
My thoughts only.
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
|
posted December 11, 2011 07:20 PM
I agree with Kelly. Same reason.
Posts: 567 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted December 11, 2011 07:20 PM
I would disagree with the arrival time being a better way to break a tie it has just as many drawbacks.
I don't like being beat by someone who quit hunting earlier. I don't see any perfect solution, it is what it is and it's the same for everyone. Personally I hunt as long as I can and still make check in whether it be weight or time been in both.
I guess you could flip coins, draw cards, arm wrestle, but it will never please everyone.
I'll agree to a certain point that some of those smaller coyotes can be as, if not more difficult to kill than older coyotes. I'm not saying weight proves anything other than numbers for the tiebreaker.
Whether its weight or time the speeding deal is going to happen. Most teams will hunt as long as they can to make check in and get the most stands out of the day.Especially these one day deals. This check in was at 7:30 and the sunset is at 5.
I would like to see the money spread out more in all of the teams. This one has a prize for a team that didn't see or get any coyotes, usually a Fox Pro Caller. I think to keep up the interest in these events an organizer needs to be a little creative. Sometimes the money getting to big at the top leads to people doing things they normally wouldn't and others jealous of the winners starting tales of cheating etc. Money is the root of all evil at times.
I see your point LB and its a good topic for debate.
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
|
posted December 11, 2011 07:59 PM
I agree with RR. I would never be convinced that killing a 24lb coyote took more skill than killing one weighing 23lbs 8oz. Useing weight as the deciding factor is nothing more than a means to an end. A flip of the coin as RR put it. For this reason, I like the idea of arrival time. At least it is something more in control of the individual team.
quote:
...others jealous of the winners starting tales of cheating etc
I thought all winners were accused of foul play regardless. Seems to go with the territory.
Maintain
--------------------
A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted December 12, 2011 12:16 AM
Once again, Geordie appears to be the smartest guy in the room. It's not dusting a 40 pound lunker, it's the difference between a 24 pound coyote and a 23 pound 8 ounce coyote.
Modesty prevents me from reminding you guys that we invented this stuff 50 years ago and have always broken ties by arrival time, so I won't go there. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
|
posted December 12, 2011 06:14 AM
Sorry Leonard wasn't tring to claim originality of check-in time breaking the ties. Definetly would have liked to have been born early enough to put my name in the hat with you guys "back in the day"
--------------------
"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
|
posted December 12, 2011 08:47 AM
I can see valid points for both methods. I dont think one is really better than the other though.
One has the skill/luck of a heavier older coyote involved and a few more chances to do it...and the other has the skill/luck of your early stands producing and not needing the 3-4 stands you cut yourself short on.
That said, I have never hunted in a contest that has ties determined by check in time. I still think we would hunt like we do now. That extra stand or five can make the tie breaker a non issue. (assuming that people check in hours early) Got to go for it all right?...
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
|
posted December 12, 2011 05:39 PM
I don't have such an issue if you get beat at the check in by someone who tried and hunted all day, maybe hunted closer to the check in point etc.
What I really don't like is a team that because of severe cold, piss poor conditions and throwing in the towel or something similar and coming in and them beating me out.
Been there done that. You walk in half froze and they have been in since noon or shortly after all cleaned up and partying.
Yea they may have been smarter than me but I tried dam it, that should be the tie breaker.
I think if you hunt hard all day you should be rewarded not penalized? For sure a hometown advantage with the time deal.
I guess I wouldn't want to loose by weight either to the guys that quit early either?
Six here half a dozen there!
--------------------
The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted December 12, 2011 08:01 PM
If I get beat by 6 minutes or 6 ounces, either way I'm not gonna like it. Same, same.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
|
posted December 13, 2011 07:50 AM
At the risk of not being one of the "smartest in the room" I have been in a few check in races. Time of check in isn't the best way to decide ties in my opinion. Weight is as fair as any.
--------------------
Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Inoculation
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2229
|
posted December 13, 2011 08:24 AM
"If I get beat by 6 minutes or 6 ounces, either way I'm not gonna like it. Same, same."
I'm with Jim on this one. I have done hunts using both methods. I have been beaten and won by time a few times, and won once on weight. There is no sure fire way to do it. As long as everyone knows what the tie breaker will be, that's as fair as it can get.
--------------------
Don't be ridiculous
Posts: 56 | From: CA | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted December 13, 2011 11:14 AM
The Kansas Predator Challenge uses weight if for no other reason than we like to see our people hunting the full period and we have very few people coming in early. From my experience running a hunt, it doesn't matter how you decide these things. Those who don't win routinely, routinely have their grievances against everything that's done.
All modesty aside, and with all due respect, Leonard, my family was hunting and killing coyotes when you were still in diapers. And, a lot of folks still do it just like they did "way back when". They just figured it was more fun to go to the coyotes instead of trying to bring them to you. If the original design was best, I'd be hunting out of a 1918 Model something-or-other coupe with wooden spoke wheels. But, somebody saw a better way and that's how we roll. Time marches on.
Ultimately, the surest way to win a hunt is kill the most coyotes. More coyotes = more weight = money and bragging rights. If you don't win, and you quit early because of (insert your own excuse), don't complain. In the words of Tom Osborne, if you don't like getting beat, get better.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
