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Author
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Topic: Had a little company
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 18, 2011 07:36 PM
I decided to put a few traps out for shits and giggles and got this little vixen today..
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/010.jpg[/IMG]] 
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5617 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 18, 2011 08:11 PM
Nice looking fox, Tim. I have a guy complaining about them in the next twon over. My furbuyer asked me last night to shotgun one to fill an order he has for one for a mountable fox.
So, when you saw her, did you shit, giggle, or both?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 18, 2011 08:17 PM
Just a shitty giggle.. LOL
Actually just a ear to ear grin. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5617 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 18, 2011 09:07 PM
Are yours prime this early? Ours don't usually lose the blue until just before Christmas, so I try to wait. Same for bobcats.
Having said that, the furbuyer was skinning a coon last night that some guys got calling and it looked really good for this early. They usually don't get good and prime here for another week or so, but this year, the coyotes wooled up a bit earlier than usual and the coons seem to have done so, too.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 18, 2011 09:52 PM
Our season seems to open about two weeks too early for some of the furry critters. At the moument coon are good to go along with Mink and rats and the fox are just starting to turn. The one I got in the trap could of used an extra week and was also yoy.. The fur looked pretty good other wise and should still fetch a good price, but will have to wait and see...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5617 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted November 19, 2011 03:10 AM
any mange around you Tim??. i've taken 3 fox in the past 2 weeks and all had it. none in the coyotes though
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 19, 2011 09:35 AM
That's all Buker used to scream about; mange is decimating my red fox!
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted November 19, 2011 10:44 AM
mange HAS decimated our fox lb. used to go out and see 30-40 a day. i've seen 3 in the past 3-4 months and all have had it
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 19, 2011 10:59 AM
As a kid, maybe 8 or 9, pheasant hunting with my dad and uncle, in southern Minnesota, edit: Mankato? I saw my first predator of any kind. I'm sure it was a red fox. It was unbelievable. I would not have been more excited had it been a polar bear.
Now, we have red fox out here, CA and AZ, how the hell did that happen?
gh....lb
[ November 19, 2011, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lungbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 630
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posted November 19, 2011 11:07 AM
Wish we had more reds here, I only see about 1 fox a year.
Posts: 225 | From: Idaho | Registered: Mar 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 19, 2011 12:25 PM
quote:
Now, we have red fox out here, CA and AZ, how the hell did that happen?
Migration Leonard, migration....
As for the low numbers some blame it on mange I say its due to over hunting/ trapping them.
Red fox only claim roughly 1-2 miles of terr. and they pretty much stay there till they die.. The males will move out in search of its own terr. and for a mate. Once breeding time rolls around the male will stay at a females side till she is ready to breed.. Most dens are located on a hill side in the open for all to see.. Once they are spotted by a hunter its just a matter of time before one or both get whacked. If the first stalk on them is a failure just come back another day, they will still be there or close by..
I remember Bear saying something about the mange awhile back and I did a little research for his area.. A trapper by the name of Redapenny who is one of the welknowns for central Mn. hit western Mn pretty hard dureing the fur boom right before the mange moved in.. The mange just cleaned up what was left...
As for here I have'nt seen a whole lot of mange in the last few years and when I do come across it, its in small areas or pockets and we try to hit thses areas pretty hard...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5617 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted November 19, 2011 12:43 PM
Tim, there are basically NO fox hunters where i live (a few roadies) but really knowone that stalks them here. i know i can go down the same roads in the winter and my tracks are the only one there from the week before. i avearge about 150 miles aday when out.
no, its mange that took our fox and they are having a hard time coming back. in about 91-92 i shot 167 and seen many many more. (1000)???
last winter i maybe seen 30 all year. that used to be an average day.
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 19, 2011 01:42 PM
Bear if you believe it was mange then believe..
You need to understand there are others out after the fox besides hunters..
Back when the prices were high you had two types of long-line trappers, water trappers and dry land trappers. The water trappers targeted mostly mink, thats where the big money was.. As for dry-land trappers red fox was there target as coyotes were far and few and not worth the time..
A long liners goal was to put out as many traps as he could going to point "B" and then set up another route returning home and always adding traps if time allowed and always looking for new areas if they have'nt already found them from previous years.. When a line slows down on catches then they switch routes and start all over.. Both water trapper and fox trapper have a limited amount of time to get as many as they can before freeze-up or the snows hit. You won't see any truck tracks on the road after snow hits as they have already been there and taken the surplus and have stopped trapping for the season.
The guys that make there liveing long-lineing are very good at it or they would'nt be doing it and you would be amazed at some of the big numbers they take...later...
quote:
in about 91-92 i shot 167
Yep and thats alot of fox for one area.
Did you just hunt the flats or did you also hit the creeks and drainages???
[ November 19, 2011, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5617 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 19, 2011 04:37 PM
So, what were you using, a rimfire?
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted November 19, 2011 05:33 PM
OK hold on Tim are you trying to blame the crash of fox in 90-93 due to trappers? When fox were worth $10 if you were lucky? C'mon I ran a lot of country and knew a LOT of farmers in eastern ND and NO ONE had a trapper working on them there just wasn't money in it to make a run of it. There was a odd guy doing it because he loved to trap but "long lining" was about obsolete until the fur market came back. Fox were at all time highs and mother nature took it into her own hands and let mange run its course period.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted November 19, 2011 06:23 PM
right one ND CK. most fox that year i coulod'nt give away. nobody wanted them. i know my country like the back of my hand and have NEVER SEEN AN ANIMAL IN A TRAP (CANINE). this land is the flattest in the world and very few can spot and stalk fox efficiantly. mange took them out and is the main factor that they are not coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!. mange did not start showing up untill about 95-96??. in that time period damn near every one had it. the few coyote we had then also had it bad but thev'e seemed to overcome it lately.
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted November 19, 2011 06:23 PM
I can't speak for Minnesota, but here in Missouri it was mange that hurt that population. My grandpa was killing the sick ones around the hay ric with a pitch fork. About the time they were coming-back, here comes the coyotes. Now, what few we have, live in town or close to it. In the country they live in barns next to a farmers house and don't venture too far away.
Reds are weak as a house cat and pretty easy to catch. As evident by your shiney trap and extension chain. Would hate to see a 12 pound fox pump a 24 inch rebar stake. LOL
Posts: 567 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 19, 2011 06:54 PM
nd not sure when mange showed up here without looking it up in one of my log books, just know off hand we have had it for a very long time and longer than most areas in the country..
Also not sure of the dates without looking them up but fox were fetching over 30.00 here at the time, I still have my fur gradeing sheets and check stubs somewhere.. The last two years when the numbers were pretty good and fetching 30.00 or better there were hunters out every week-end after them and like mention before a red fox is pretty easey pick-ens dureing mateing time.
I also recall at that time there was a hunter up in N.D. that had a article in the Varmint hunter mag that was doing some serious damage on the fox up there.. Any way I say the main reason for low numbers is over harvest and I'm sticking to it...
As for Peanut Butter Man, Yep I use a pretty long chain on my traps for various reasons, one is to allow the trapped animal to move closer to cover so a trap theif or road hunter dose'nt see it and shoot it or steal it, also I have a few coyotes moveing through the area so don't want to take any chances. I also use my traps for water trapping and just attach a window anchor to the chain for a drowner, makes life a little easier don't you think?????
Died trap or shinney trap dose'nt really matter if you have it covered with dirt, the main thing is to just boil them to remove any oil or odors... Right????
Edit to add: I use a 32" or 36" stakes. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ November 19, 2011, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5617 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted November 19, 2011 08:58 PM
So riddle me this batman how did during the good fur years did the "numbers men" annually take 2-400 fox a year for multiple years without trapping it out? Look at some statistics of big takes or heavy management that is way more than what small amount of "long liners" you are dealing with and they still have a healthy fox population just a manageble one. But now that trapping is a dieing breed they are taking too many of your fox? "I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and lephrecans dance in the streets" It's idealogy with no proof like your talking that gets trapping and snaring banned in states.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 19, 2011 09:34 PM
quote:
But now that trapping is a dieing breed they are taking too many of your fox?
Never said they took too many of my fox, just saying thats one of the main reasons for a decline in the numbers. Back then every town had a handfull of hunters/trappers that hunted them.
I hunted from the southern border as far north as Alex and west into S.D.. When the fur price went up so did the number of hunters seen in the field, as you should know fox don't move around like a coyote does they stay in a 1-2 mile area.
Also most hunters back then hunted just the high ground, drive the back roads till they spotted one laying out.. Then you had some that started to hunt the creeks and other drainages, the fox in these areas is what I called the breeders and left them alone so the area could be repopulated for next season (seed)...
Sure mange had a part in it along with coyotes moveing into the area but most of the damage was done by hunters
/trappers....
As far as the coyotes go they are not that hard on the fox we still have, the last couple of years we have taken coyotes and fox from the same sections..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted November 19, 2011 09:49 PM
First you gave us an explanation on "long liners" and the way they work and blamed them. When i blew that out of the water now you want to blame other "hunters" that is even more ridiculous!!
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 19, 2011 10:38 PM
quote:
First you gave us an explanation on "long liners" and the way they work and blamed them. When i blew that out of the water
You blew nothing out of the water. A long-line trapper will harvest more fur per year than any local or week-end trapper, if they did'nt they would'nt be doing it to make a liveing..
A trapper will also take more fur per year than most hunters as well..
You can blame the trappers if you like but I think the hunters should take some of the credit as well.. When money gets into the picture greed happens to show up as well..
I don't know all the trappers here but the ones I do know usually try to leave a little seed in there area, a long-line trapper dose'nt care untill the numbers drop then he just moves on to the next good area..
Have you taken a look at Mn. harvest limits for certain furbearers, why do you think there is a limit on the yearly take..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted November 19, 2011 11:09 PM
Tim i'm not arguing who takes more fur the hunter or the long liner i know the answer. You are the one that is telling us that the trappers and hunters are to blame for the low red fox numbers over mange which is absolutely ridiculous. There was more guys taking larger numbers of fox before mange and there was still always a healthy population of fox to trap and hunt. Mange hit and took a huge toll on the fox, the introduction of large number of coyotes made it harder for them to recover from the mange epedemic. It has nothing to do with the pickup crews, trappers or hunters unless your are talking about a very small area. There simply isn't the men, money or mentality any more to trap hard enough to make a real dent in your area. Mange spreads like wildfire and in fox is really effective. If i could get to the efficency of mange i would be the most saught after coyote hand in the country.
Trapping as a "local trapper" and a "long liner" are the same it is just a matter of miles covered. Just because a local trapper that can't trap more than 40-60 fox a year due to his methods, knowledge and equipment tells you he is saving some for seed doesn't mean he is in it for any other reason besides that the long liner is doing what he can't. His only explanation for not meeting the goals he set forth is "I need to leave some for seed" his ego gets in the way not his ethics or management practices.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted November 20, 2011 04:46 AM
Timmy, it amazes me how you get some notion locked into your brain and hold it there no matter what.
mange is what took our fox,not trappers/hunters. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
where's them boolits you were gonna send me??
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted November 20, 2011 10:20 AM
Do you have some documents or studies to go along with your claim??? You know! numbers that died from mange and those that died other wise like from hunting or trapping..
You know if any of you actually spent time hunting fox you would know a red fox is'nt very smart, if they don't have a hole or pipe nearbye they just run in a circle and if given time some will run right back to were it all started from. Some may just run to the other side of a section or the back side of a snow drifted fence-line and lay back down. If the hunter is'nt lazey its just a matter of time for the foxes time on earth to come to a end...
Once a hunter learns how to hunt them I consider them to be one of the easist animals to hunt, as for calling them though I would put them above the coyote as far as diffaculty goes..
" The Mn. DNR has no harvest reports that go back to 1985 and to present date so I have no proof to back my claim but on the same note you have no proof to back your claim that mange knocked the numbers down..."
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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