quote:

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.....if you howl they will dam near run you out of the pasture and can put the fear of god in a decoy dog. Usually not many coyotes in or around horse pastures.

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LOL. Randy, i was calling over in the osage a couple years ago. The ranch had a big band of mustangs they were grazing(welfare for mustangs). Anyway, I howled and soon after thought I was going to be stomped to death. I would rather go hand to hand with the mulie doe Shaw watched almost land in my lap than try to shoot my way through a band of broody mustangs.

Maintain
 

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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on May 25, 2011, 10:39 PM:
 
without actually looking at it i would say stillborn and scavened, however how the mare was acting right after finding the foal would be something to let you know more. Even if the coyotes didn't actually choke the foal out they might have seen the mare down got her up and chased her around smelling the birth fluids and caused a still born, broken neck from birthing upright ect ect.

Dogs would have made a mess.

Generelly if the sack is still on and the hoofs show no proof of being up on it's feet the coyotes didn't actually "kill" the victim.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 26, 2011, 05:46 AM:
 
Thanks guys, this interests me quite a bit. This guy came in and was sort of saying "see I told you so". Only something didn't look right to me, I just didn't know what. I need to pay more attention to the details. I'll go after his 3 giant coyotes anyway.

On another note, I had a guy come in yesterday and ask if I'd been hunting. I told him no, not since March rolled around. He proceeded to tell me I done good on his coyotes but by god I better get back out there, he's starting to see them again.

I'll have to start making a few evening stands after work. Life is good.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 26, 2011, 06:36 AM:
 
I went and looked at a goat deal yesterday afternoon Tom. After I looked it over, I told him the coyotes are not on him, but would be coming from the his neighbors. He got on the phone and got access. Now if he will get me on the guy across the highway that has a couple miles of creek bottom....

Cool thing was he doesn't have the goats yet, He wanted me to come over and work on them before he moved the goats and the guard dogs in. This will give me and the dogs alittle something to work on and insure I keep a good dose of chiggers.
Stay after them
Kelly
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 26, 2011, 09:37 AM:
 
A couple chiggers is a small price to pay. Those are the tiny little red things? Only place I have ever seen them was in Missouri a couple years ago. Compared to our critters, not a problem.

Kelly, you don't need creek bottom. You are already killing more than your share.

gh/lb
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM:
 
LB if you ever get 5 or 6 on your nuttsack, you might change you tune.

I spray down good and don't have much of a problem. DEET is your buddy.

[ May 26, 2011, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 26, 2011, 01:01 PM:
 
Serious question: Are these the same as what are called "crabs"? I have no idea, just a word I have heard.

What is a really serious thing in our local mountains is poison oak. I have seen poison ivy, and I believe you have to touch it? But, poison oak can be airborne spores, (if that is a correct term?) and you don't have to make contact with the plant itself. It can either drive you completely NUTS, or you aren't aware of it for hours. I have seen victims of poison oak that look very much like they were beaten and stomped by several people. Ugly, ugly scabs all over the body and head.

gh/lb
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on May 26, 2011, 01:10 PM:
 
depends on the person some people can be close to posion ivy and break out in a rash, others can get right in it and as long as it doesn;t come in skin contact they are fine.

Ivy comes in 2 forms vine and brush types both will give you an nasty red ichy rash. Out here we have alot of it and it seems coyotes like to den in rocky outcropping with some brush for cover and alot of times that cover is posion Ivy, must not effect them like it does people.

Just make sure I have gloves and LS shirt on when dealing in these areas.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 26, 2011, 01:14 PM:
 
no crabs are a body lice. Chigger burrow under the skin and itch like heck.

Posion Oak, Posion Ivy we got them both. Might have posion sumac also, but far as I know I have never got into any.
The oil from these plants causes the trouble.
Used to take shots for it, don't get it too bad anymore. No fun when your eyes are swelled shut.

[ May 26, 2011, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 26, 2011, 01:16 PM:
 
LB, think crabs crossed with a tick that has poison oak and is pissed off.

Chiggers affect some worse than others, some make a tiny red spot and others make a red whelp, a good dose makes everyone want to cut em out with a sharp knife.

We have poison oak and ivy, both can be transferred by air, especially if you burn brush piles with it in them.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 26, 2011, 01:19 PM:
 
yep smoke from a campfire got me the worst.

and before somebody corrects me, I found this and stand corrected. I always was told and thought they were under the skin and like Tom said, a few time I though of getting knife out.

Chiggers do not burrow under your skin, as many people believe, nor do they feed on animal blood. They actually feed on the fluids in skin cells. To get the fluids, they attach themselves to a skin pore or hair follicle and inject a digestive enzyme that ruptures the cells. The enzyme also hardens the surrounding skin tissue, forming a sort of straw for sucking the skin cell fluids. The whole process irritates the skin, causing an itchy red bump that continues to cause discomfort for several days. Chiggers are only about 1/50th of an inch (0.5 mm) in diameter and so are too small to be seen with the naked eye. This invisibility is the reason so many people believe chiggers burrow under the skin.

[ May 26, 2011, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 26, 2011, 02:14 PM:
 
Are you sure they can't be seen? I thought I could see them crawling on wood railings? Are they orangy-red fuzzy little things? Maybe Missouri chiggers are a bit larger? Very small, but not invisible?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on May 26, 2011, 02:36 PM:
 
I must be chigger proof. Murphy Love and I hunted south Texas a few years ago and he had the worst damn mess on his legs I ever seen. Bothered him for a couple weeks after we got home. Me, not a bite. And I damn sure don't want what he had.

Kinda like my old man told me once about the "clap". He said, "nope, son, I've never had it, And I fuckin sure don't want it again!"
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on May 26, 2011, 02:48 PM:
 
Clap and chiggers are two entirely different things... I've had lots of chigger bites and they are miserable! Don't even want to think about what the "Clap" might be like!!!

Here's some interesting reading about chiggers.
Chiggers!!!

Those were probably red spider mites you saw Leonard. Common on many house plants. They are nasty looking and very small but still about 10 times bigger than a chigger!

Nikonut
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 26, 2011, 04:51 PM:
 
Yeah, we got spider mites evrywhere round here. Walk thru a cottonfield here in summer and you will be covered in em. I grew up walking cottonfields pheasent hunting. Nasty.

Up here in the Sierras, ticks are super duper thick. If you stand in one place to long during turkey season, they will cover you up. NASTY! I hat ticks with a passion!
Mark
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on May 26, 2011, 04:56 PM:
 
spider mites don't feed on people but plant matter evergreens are the main target they suck the juices from the plant they have no in terest in humans.
 

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Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on May 26, 2011, 07:37 PM:
 
I had a dose of chiggers one time I went to the health clinic. The doctor gave me a shot of penicillin they cleared right up.
I climbed a lot of trees that had posin ivy on them I never had any thing happen from it.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 26, 2011, 08:14 PM:
 
That's interesting on the penicillin, asked lots of docs about a remedy for chiggers, none mentioned it. A good friend of mine is a doc and loves to fish. He hates chiggers as much as me so I'll sure ask him about it.

Sure you ain't mixed up with the clap?
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on May 26, 2011, 09:02 PM:
 
South New Jersey is the chigger capital of the would!
I spent a lot of time in the woods late summer when they are the worst, so this is what I have learned .

there is a product called Permethrin and if you spray your pants and boots with it a day or so before hunting it works great at keeping them off yea .

but if they get yea , and they got be before. i can say this the time it starts to ich they are gone. so the old story about putting ammonia, nail polish , nail polish remover , and all the stuff you have herd about to kill them is a wast of time .
when they do strike the only real stuff to use is
anti-itch medication, hydrocortisone,
a prescription strength steroid cream

chiggers in North America don't usually carry any diseases, the bites themselves can get infected.
so penicillin could help with that .
for me the only thing I DO is a medroldose pack of prednisone.

ps
LB
if you ever get them on your man sack,
if i was you I would try icy hot or ben gay and i have been told it works better if you apply them both at the same time ,,,,,,,, really,,,,,,it works

[ May 27, 2011, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 26, 2011, 09:59 PM:
 
Thanks for the advice, George. I appreciate your concern about my man sak; that's really nice of you.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on May 27, 2011, 05:20 AM:
 
Permethrin is the chemical most used to deter chiggers and ticks. I use it everywhere from my clothes to inside my horses ears for tick prevention.

The best treatment for me has been to draw the hottest bath you can stand, and add some bleach to it. Soak in that for 20 minutes. Reeves told me that remedy, and it seems to work.

Maintain
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on May 27, 2011, 09:52 AM:
 
Yep, hot bath with bleach, my dear old grandma would make all us grandkids do that very thing after a long day of gathering chiggers. It seems to work.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 27, 2011, 10:16 AM:
 
Chiggers? So far as I know, I have never had the pleasure?

But ticks, they scare the shit out of me! I remember when I lived in Minneesota, my dog would get one occasionally, they would swell up like a small grape. Disgusting! We have them out here certain times of the year. I never had one attach to me, knock on wood.

gh/lb
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 27, 2011, 10:39 AM:
 
I only got them once , what a nightmare!
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 27, 2011, 03:38 PM:
 
When I first started carrying mail, every spring, I'd have a couple days where I'd have a wide swath of chigger bites right around my waist where my belt rode, and from my ankles halfway up my shins. Once you survived the first round, they seemed to go away as if my body developed an immunity to the effects of their saliva. I did try that hot water and bleach and it seemed to work. In these parts, sitting or lying on a lush green lawn is a bad idea.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on May 27, 2011, 04:34 PM:
 
never seen a chigger. lotsa ticks here though. lymes disease it what worries me. a good friends wife got it and basically f-uped her life. it's nothing to pick 20 a day off the dog. i inspect myself every time i come in from the woods. they love the back of my neck. i once threw many on a passed out buddy sleeping in the bunk next to me that i pulled off my dog. he had shaggy hair and it seemed the right thing to do!! next morning we went to the local cafe and he ordered a helping of mashed potatoes. long story short: he bitched cuz there were lumps in them!!
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on May 27, 2011, 07:55 PM:
 
Remind me to never pass out around Bear.
 

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Posted by 32below (Member # 2075) on May 27, 2011, 08:28 PM:
 
Chiggers and ticks in these parts are few and far between. Now them damned mosquitoes are another thing. They are the size of B-52's and some carry West Nile. Ask me about that sometime.
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on May 28, 2011, 05:49 AM:
 
Used to get chiggers from time to time calling this time of year, now I spray my clothes with that Bronco fly spray etc. also spray the dogs with it. It really keeps chiggers, ticks, fleas, flies etc. off. Pant legs tucked in your boots keep them from biting around the sock line.

I tried the hot bath bleach, but went to a Q tip with bleach on it when I come out of the shower or bath, I dip the Q tip in a little bottle of bleach I keep in the cabinet and put it on the red spots. They get a hard head on them after the bleach and it sure seems to get rid of them much faster than anything else I have tried.

I've had out of state friends who layed prone shootin prairie dogs all day and be covered with them.
 

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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on May 28, 2011, 11:06 PM:
 
between the stories of bearhunter turning turrets on a "good friend" and the throwing ticks i believe your never ending invation has been revoked bearhunter!!!!! You're a dirty asshole!
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on May 29, 2011, 12:31 PM:
 
i am indeed i have one planned for you
now if gas would get reasonable,i'd come out and visit ya
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 29, 2011, 02:21 PM:
 
Just offering an opinion.

To throw TICKS at a "friend"; hey, those are extremely very nasty critters and it would surely take a PRICK to do such a thing.

I would uninvite you too! God, the thought of those lumpy mashed potatoes makes me ill!

You are in need of a new custom title, Amigo.

Suggestions? Anybody?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on May 29, 2011, 04:33 PM:
 
Sheeesh!!! This guy is hard core mean, you guys labeled me as mean cuz I called t-bag a few names.....I NEVER threw ticks at him and then laughed when he ate them!!!
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on May 29, 2011, 05:34 PM:
 
Southern MO/ Northern AR, clearing brush one summer, I got ate up with chiggers and ticks. Seemed we tried Campho-Phenique to help relieve the hell they cause.

Any Private area, belt line, armpits, or other hot spots are where they tend to go.

LB, you mentioned "crabs"? Funny story...

Years ago, let's say a friend of mine and his girlfriend were literally rolling in the hay so to speak one evening. They started itching really bad later the next day, and being scared teenagers and all, went to the free clinic 'cause they thought, one gave the other crabs. Anyways they got covered in seed ticks, not crabs. Still pretty uncomfortable.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 30, 2011, 09:08 AM:
 
Went out this morning for a look around. First place that lost the foal, had horses all over, made one stand with nothing showing.

Went to the next place the guys been seeing coyotes and told me to get back after em. Found what I think are dens, made a couple of stands in the 40 mph wind and called it quits.

Been picking ticks off me for the last hour. That DEET spray I used might have stopped them from biting me but they are crawling everywhere, screw this.
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on May 30, 2011, 01:27 PM:
 
Find some of this...

http://www.sawyer.com/faqpermethrin.htm

It works like nothing I've ever tried! It's amazing stuff and doesn't smell bad or make your clothes oily.

Once it dries it's good for several weeks or even months.

Nikonut

[ May 30, 2011, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on May 30, 2011, 03:51 PM:
 
Niko. i've heard it works great. i hav'nt tried it yet but plan on getting some soon. ticks are diminishing here now but the mosquitoes came out in full force yesterday.
yeah Leonard, i was kinda a dink back than. that was about 15 years ago.. was funny at the time!!.as for the "turret turning", had a hunting bud that was super competitive. would whine like a little girl if some one shot more game than him. one day he got out of the truck and had his rifle in the front seat. while he was gone i spinned his scope screws he missed an easy fox later. got pissed and had to stop to re-site in. so i got in the habit of doing it whenever i had the chance. he never did catch on. would flat out scream that his gun/scope was a P.O.S. have never done it to anyone else. i'm a nice guy now and have toned it down a bit
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 30, 2011, 05:44 PM:
 
Just went and looked I got Sawyer 30% DEET, it sort of worked I guess as I didn't have a single bite but man they were crawling all over me.

I'll try the other stuff too.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on May 31, 2011, 02:16 PM:
 
Chiggers, deer ticks, mites and the like, never had a problem. I did get poison ivy 6 different times one summer working with my uncle doing landscaping. Poison ivy on the balls is nothing to wish on an enemy.

Spelling!!

[ May 31, 2011, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on May 31, 2011, 04:03 PM:
 
100% "DEET" is good to keep insects from biting, but it's oily and will destroy/melt some plastics and paint coatings.

The Permethrin really keeps them off you to begin with... combined they do wonders and I've never had deer or coyotes seem to notice or locate any smell. I got my "Sawyer's clothing spray" at Cabela's.

Both are in my hunting bag every time I go out. At least until winter gets here!

It's reported that Permethrin is bad for cats... here kitty, kitty... meow!

Edit:a cup of chlorine bleach in a bath works great on poison oak and ivy by neutralizing the alkaloids they produce. Some folks are allergic to heavy concentrations of bleach so use with caution!

Nikonut

[ May 31, 2011, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
 

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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on June 02, 2011, 12:54 AM:
 
BNB Planned for me huh? Don't worry what goes around comes around LOLOLOL!!!!!!
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on June 02, 2011, 04:58 AM:
 
Chiggers is just part of life growing up in OK.
I seem to remember something about using dabs of nail polish on the itchy sores.

As far as poison ivy, 4 weeks ago I was sitting next to a fence watching a two-track that was corned for hogs when I hear my partner half whisper..."Jay. Are you allergic to poison ivy"?
I replied "I don't think so". Partner said "Well, you're sittin' in it".
I performed a two-cheek two-step I've never done before. Just thinking about it made me itch and I couldn't sit still waiting for hogs to show.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 02, 2011, 05:38 AM:
 
Ya Jay, the nail polish worked but hair spray worked good too and was easier to apply. Of course you didn't get the polkadotted affect but you can't have everything in life.

As a kid and I guess even as an adult (as I sit here scratching), I just always seemed to have chiggers throughout the summer.
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on June 02, 2011, 06:18 AM:
 
Mom always made us wear socks. As soon as we left the house the socks came off. The chiggers would concentrate just above the ankles when wearing socks. The other bad place was at the elastic of the BVDs.

Hair spray was off limits to a gang of boys. That and book matches. What a deadly combination.

One of the things that was second nature to us was to always look down at the porch step before going outside. The porch steps was a favorite place for copperheads to stretch out and catch some rays.
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on June 02, 2011, 06:47 AM:
 
The deep bath with a cup of bleach will flat out get rid of ticks, don't know about the chiggers, but it probably would work. For ticks, the bath doesn't have to be all that hot. Just make it deep enough to cover everything but your face, soak for about 20 minutes, and then shower off and you're good to go. Before turkey season, back when I hunted those rascals a lot, I sprayed all my clothes with Coulston's Duranon tick repellent and wore the gator deals to seal the bottom of my pants to the boots. Never had any trouble with ticks or chiggers. It contains "Permethrin" and lasts for about two weeks per spraying. Don't ever put that stuff directly on your skin though.
 

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on June 05, 2011, 05:19 AM:
 
From a foal kill to clap. What a journey!

Back to the foal. It's a rare case where coyotes will attack the foal of a mature mare. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it's not the norm. Unlike cattle, the labor involved in the birthing of a foal is a short process and it doesn't take long for a foal to get on it's feet after being born. Cattle are in labor much longer which provides more opportunity for coyotes. Mares are usually extremely protective of their newborn foals.

The best way to determine a still born is that in many cases the hair will be slipping on the foal if you check it right away. If the hair is slipping, you know it was already dead while still inside it's mother.

As far as throat holds causing a lot of bleeding, that's rarely the case. Most coyotes kill by clamping down on the trachea and causing suffocation. Many lambs are killed without much blood being visible on the outside of neck. Cut them open and you can usually find canine punctures and deep hemorrhage into the neck and surrounding the vertabrae. At times you can see how the hemorrhage soaked into the jaw bone long after the incident occurred.

In this foal case, as has already been mentioned, since the foal was still in the sac, it's a pretty sure bet that it was a stillborn. If you wanted to know for sure, you would need to see if the hair was slipping.

Some ADC guys find it easier to tell a rancher what they want to hear rather than finding the evidence that proves what actually happened. Barb wire cuts on horses is a common occurance but it's always more interesting to believe it's a mountain lion. Funny thing is most of these mountain lions must be of the levitating variety, like David Blane, since they didn't leave any tracks.

~SH~

[ June 05, 2011, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
 

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