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One came to edge of cover and laid down, shot that one. The rest did not even pick their head up.

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You are making me wonder how many I might have not seen on my stands now, even more so. It seems in my case they all start running after the first shot
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 30, 2011, 12:51 PM:
 
TWO POSSIBILITIES. First, maybe he didn't hear you, wind wasn't right, etc.

Second, he didn't hear anything that interested him.

This happens most often with cats that hear you and are looking at you, but are just not interested. But, it's the same drill. You have to give them something that WILL interest them.

This is where I sometimes talk about nonvocal sounds. You can snap twigs, scuff your boots in the gravel, whop tree branches, even throw a rock.

These types of sounds are natural disturbance sounds that are hard to resist. Followed by prey distress, you generally get a response, renewed interest.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 30, 2011, 04:29 PM:
 
Just times that it don't matter what you do, they ain't movin', I've seen it before on several occasions. I've also seen'em up when I started callin', only to go lay down and not move no matter what I did.

DAA nailed it, shoot at'em, that's the only sure fire way I know that'll get'em up and moving. Probably not your way, but moving none-the-less.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on January 31, 2011, 03:29 AM:
 
Shooting is something I had not considered.And probably won't use.. Most hunters (chasers) around here shoot blindly into cover to flush coyotes.
I had considered a non vocal sound, I wish there were some of those to be selected from an eletronic call.. Rapp music might work. Makes me want to get up and leave.. Thanks
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 31, 2011, 07:30 AM:
 
Ive seen the chaser crowd in action, Ruger 10/22's blasting away at cover to flush out coyotes, then they either run it down or keep blasting at it till they get it. Had a crowd of those around here in the 90's.
Not guys I wanted to be around.

Mark

[ January 31, 2011, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2011, 07:43 AM:
 
Have you tried talking to them? You know where they are at, why not just walk toward them slow and easy and after you closed the distance, talk to them in a normal voice. The point being is not to scare the hell out of them, but just get them to stand and look before they run. And even if they do there is always the possibility of stopping them for the shot?
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 01, 2011, 03:26 AM:
 
Greenside, here , where coyotes are used to being blown off their nest by deer,pheasant,quail and coyote hunters, they almost without exception come off the nest at warp speed and do not stop to look back. Often they are on a terrace and go off the blind side and stay there until out of shooting distance.I have noticed coyotes bumped in western states will almost always run out 150 yds or so,stop and look back if one holds off shooting. Midwest is much different.thanks

[ February 01, 2011, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 01, 2011, 06:48 AM:
 
6mm284; I see you are patterning youre coyotes which is good. You know what there habits are and should use this to youre advantage.. You can drop someone off on the backside to where they like to run if spooked and be ready to take the shot when they show themselves again.. We have some of the same coyotes here that do the same and they don't last very long once you know there habits... Also since you know where they like to bed for the day try comeing back at nite and call to them. You may have to park the truck back aways and just walk down the road untill you come to a fence line or some sort of cover that they will feel comfortable to come in along.. (waterways, end of a terrace, tree-line) Good luck..
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 01, 2011, 02:01 PM:
 
and on and on and on blah blah blah..sheeeesh Tim, I dont think this is his first day on the planet, do you?

I`ve had this happen only a couple of times, always with a group, Greensides advice is similair to what I did, it produced at least one dead one out of the group.

Interesting stuff, could be several reasons for it I suppose but in the end you shot one so good on ya for that one.
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on February 01, 2011, 03:38 PM:
 
Tim you got your seminar all ready to go?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 01, 2011, 04:15 PM:
 
Yes and no Randy. We got abunch more snow here, about two feet of the fluffy stuff and the wind was suppose to pick-up later tommorrow so it was called off.. Been trying to get ahold of the "coyote doctors" to take my place.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 01, 2011, 04:43 PM:
 
you can bunk here for the night TA.
 

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Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on February 02, 2011, 02:50 PM:
 
Get inside their bubble.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 04, 2011, 03:19 AM:
 
Tim, 99.9% of my hunting is on foot by myself,pickup stays on the road.I don't have anyone to help "surrond them" like many do with numerous pickups,flushers,blockers etc as some describe doing.Coming back late in the day and calling can work,but often I have noticed they will get up and move while I am gone,rodeo hunters or a farmer will show up and flush them or they will not move til after dark. Watched two fox thru out the day last week that were laid up before sun up and were still there after Sundown, totally unresponsive to any form of coaxing.Coyotes here are used to keeping their head down ,although very few have heard a call. I have yet to ever meet or see anyone in the process of calling locally.Regardless of the lack of call shying expereiences these coyotes have an extremely high level of wariness of all things that seems to include a natural shyness to calls.This time of year , most coyotes will not even tolerate a pickup stopping on the road as much as 3/4 to a mile away.I try to hide the pickup and watch with binoculars or spotting scope as they will continually look in my direction quite some time.This is too long, remember, He who speaks the most knows the least, I have proved that many times!!!

[ February 04, 2011, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 04, 2011, 01:13 PM:
 
6mm284; I was'nt saying you need to get a crew together to get one of theses non-responsive coyotes, just saying there are other ways of doing it depending on how bad you want the coyote.. If you are just looking for a little one on one then have at it, just keep in mind the coyote will win most times when you play according to its terms...
I'm more interested in getting the hide on a stretcher and will use any methods at my disposal, calling, spot & stalk, or the help of others... As I'm finding out with my coyotes not all will come in to prey distress sounds, some may require a few coyote vocals and some alot of coyote vocals. Some require a little prey distress sounds and some like it non-stop. The coyotes age/sex and comfort level also dictates what sounds I may use, as well as how close I need to be to them as well..Some respond well about a hour before dark and some may require it to be dark before they will get up and come in for a look.. I've had older females show up on a stand dureing mid-day in some of the quiet areas.. Another thing to look at is the coyote hearing the sound you are putting out, on some days I've had coyotes that where in a deep sleep and also found the fox do the same at times especaly when they are paired up and mateing.
Here is a short vidio showing what I was talking about how a fox goes into a deep sleep, I was about 100 yds from the fox.

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208 /TA17Rem/09-10%20Fox%20and%20coyotes/th_Deletepartiallyof1302010_161127.jpg[/IMG]

[ February 04, 2011, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2011, 01:32 PM:
 
yeah, you picked him up, when you first panned away from the female. Poor guy, I know how he feels.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 04, 2011, 05:12 PM:
 
Tim, if that male was only 300ish yds away, why didnt you shoot it?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 04, 2011, 05:47 PM:
 
6mm284,
I'm sure that you are getting all "Knowed up" now that you have Mr. Coyote's instruction and all.
Mert is seeing the same thing that you are out there in the snow. I wonder how these coyotes would respond to a howl from a cow horn howler?
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 04, 2011, 06:08 PM:
 
The one sound that will move a locked down coyote faster than greased ExLax around here is the sound of a truck engine. Couple weeks ago, we were working an area I knew for a fact held coyotes, but just couldn't get one to stand up. A buddy of mine came by in his truck, we whispered to one another for a few minutes, then he pulled away and left. Told me three days later that as he pulled away, two coyote busted out of the timber not far from where we'd been calling for some time, running away from him. Got me to thinking.... I wonder if I recorded the sound of my pickup pulling away on a gravel road, or even pulling toward the microphone, and loaded it into my caller, if that would stand one up making him think a dog wagon was nearby? The new "wonder sound"! LOL Definetly outside the box, but you just never know. LOL
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 04, 2011, 06:23 PM:
 
Amen Rich, I will put that howler around my neck and try it out.
I do not agree with the statement of" playing on the coyotes terms, most of the time you will not win. ".I seldom force a coyote to do anything he does not choose to do. Makes him much more predictable as far as I am concerned.That way I do not need blockers,flushers,chasers,radios,nuclear weapons,tear gas, grenades,napalm,barb wire,a chain of command for the division or other methods at my dispoal. But then hey, call me simple minded!!!!

[ February 05, 2011, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 04, 2011, 06:42 PM:
 
"playing on the coyotes terms, most of the time you will not win"

Good point, 6. Pretty much everything I do when calling is on the coyote's terms. They sure don't come better for me when they know it's my day off and I'd sure like to kill a couple of them. When I set out to determine what my strategy for the day will be, I ask myself "what's going on in the lives of these coyotes?" rather than me expecting them to know what trips my trigger. Calling coyotes is a lot like getting lucky with the wife or girlfriend. Think what you will, but what you get outta the deal is pretty much up to them.Tim just wants us all to think he's some kinda "coyote whisperer" who, by his very presence, can compel a coyote to do things it would not otherwise do. We should all be so lucky. I just continue to be utterly amazed that he peddles this cowflop on this site.

Wow!

[ February 04, 2011, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 04, 2011, 07:48 PM:
 

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Tim, if that male was only 300ish yds away, why didnt you shoot it?

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Actually more like 400-500 yds. To many snow drifts blocking my shot from the prone position..
I ended up getting him a few days later with a female in heat sound played on the e-caller..
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 04, 2011, 08:16 PM:
 

quote:

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.Tim just wants us all to think he's some kinda "coyote whisperer" who, by his very presence, can compel a coyote to do things it would not otherwise do.

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Not really Lance.. I just know how to use the sounds that are available to my advantage to get the coyote to play on my terms.. Can't do it everytime but sooner or later I will get it to change its mind.. But you know all of that. Right?????(secrete)
Just like Higgins preaches, trip one of the 7 triggers and game is on..
I got into a group last nite which consisted of a female and some YOY coyotes.. At first I did'nt know if it was a female or just a older male from hearing it howls but it did'nt matter anyway as long as I new it was adult coyote.. I used 3 sounds on this stand and had them comeing in at the 30 minute mark.. As soon as I spotted them with the bino's I got the rifle set up and pointed in the right direction and continued to draw them in to where I could pick them up with the scope and then took the lead coyote when I felt comfortable with the shot... The YOY scattered back into the creek bottom and perhaps tonight I will go back and try for them..
The YOY that are here are a little fussy about what sounds I use but now I got mom out of the picture they may come a little easier with sounds that normaly don't work well with the adults... Can't wait to get back out to the Dakotas where life is so much easier..
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 05, 2011, 03:18 AM:
 
Tim,curious why you took the lead coyote first. letting them come in close enough to kill the far coyote with a rifle then often leaves one a much better chance to kill another of a multiple with a shotgun if not a rifle. I have always considered killing the lead coyote a mistake if the far one is just as available.

[ February 05, 2011, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on February 05, 2011, 07:17 AM:
 
6M your learning more than you realize.

There you have coyotes with little to no calling exposure and you are still seeing the same reaction or lack of reaction others are seeing around the country.

Be interesting to do a poll and see of all the recent coyotes killed how many were adult breeding pairs and how many were YOY males. I'll bet it would weigh heavy on the YOY male side.

Lite bulbs shound be lighting up!

Give it another week to 10 days and see what happens.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 05, 2011, 07:47 AM:
 
3 of the 4 I caled and killed yesterday were male. Did not call a pair all day. Watch two doing the nasty way out. I watch them answer my howls, but they did not come my way and ended up on land I can't hunt. For the most part I was making cat stands where I saw fresh sign in the white stuff.

Waist deep snow drifts suck. I am sore this morning in places I didn't know I had...

Stay after them
Kelly
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on February 05, 2011, 09:50 AM:
 
KJ welcome to my world, I tend to look at walks in number of heart attacks to get there.

Seeing refusals just because it's to dam hard for them to get to ya. Not sure if it holds a coyote just not your 150 pounds!! A guy really has to get close to em, oh yea undetected too!!

Ice skating rink here this a.m. Snow now.

Still luv it vs. the heat in the summer.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 05, 2011, 10:46 AM:
 
Rich, used your cow horn howler this morning. Went to a section with a long draw and creek bottom and glassed it for a while,nothing . Took your howler and did two spaced howls. Watched for a couple of minutes then drove to the other side and started glassing.. Ending up spotting 6 different coyotes moving out in the open to the draw where I had howled. They went there and milled around for a while and then moved back to the cover they came out of. I sneeked in to the half mile line and blew the howl, followed by some jack and cottontail of varying volume.Pulled one to 272 yds after 20 minutes of trying to get him to come my way,shot him and then swung over to one at 372 on the creek bank and missed him,he stopped for a bark at 540yd and I killed him.More luck than talent, but I would sure like to think your howler was effective in pulling them out of the cover. thanks
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 05, 2011, 11:53 AM:
 
Damn!!! That's outstanding shooting in my book 6MM. I can say with certainty that I've never killed a coyote over 350 yards. Missed more than my share under that too. I can splat a praire dog at distances out to 400, maybe a lil bit more, but almost always have to walk in on 'em. Dang coyotes just won't allow that! Course I don't carry a rifle capable of those kind of ranges very often either. Still, nice shootin'!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2011, 12:59 PM:
 

quote:

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Tim,curious why you took the lead coyote first. letting them come in close enough to kill the far coyote with a rifle then often leaves one a much better chance to kill another of a multiple with a shotgun if not a rifle. I have always considered killing the lead coyote a mistake if the far one is just as available.

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I agree,if I was makeing a daytime stand.
In my last post I was'nt calling dureing the day but at night..Different ball-game..
The coyotes don't come close enough for a shotgun so it stays in the truck. The scope dose'nt gather as much lite as the bino's so its a little harder to pick-up youre target let alone two and its difficult to judge distance as well.. I'd rather let one walk than make a bad hit at night. When calling alone you can just figure on getting one shot off so make it count..
Also at the moument we do not have a full moon which makes it difficult, but once the moon does become full and the sky is clear then there is a chance of getting a double..
Some night when you have the time drive out of town and look around with just the naked eye and then switch to a pr. of bino' and then a rifle scope set on 4x you will get a better understanding of whats going on..

By the way congrats on the two coyotes, its amazeing what a few howls can do...
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 05, 2011, 02:00 PM:
 
6mm284,
I'm glad that the howler worked for you. Sounds like some good shooting on your part also. It sounds as though you may have had them on your first stand overlooking the valley if you had given them a little more time, but you controlled the situation and made it work so you did good.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 05, 2011, 05:01 PM:
 
Update Rich,, I went back several hours later to the same location I had originally howled. Howled twice and then had to head for home to go to town with my wife.. on way to town I looked up in that same draw and there was a coyote moving into it. Probably one of the earlier 4 that went into the cover. I will be working your howler pretty hard here for a while. And will also wait on the howl stand for a while longer.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 05, 2011, 05:15 PM:
 
Tim, I do not live in town so I don't have to drive far,.Your suggestion to compare bino to a scope at night is a good one. I have been a firm believer in optics for many years and use a mixture of swaro and nightforce for scopes and binoculars. I would venture to say the nightforce will likely be brighter at night than most binoculars.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 06, 2011, 06:39 AM:
 
6mm284,
Be sure to try the howler next time you need to entice a bedded coyote to stand up for a shot. I am interested in hearing how they respond to that sound. I believe that the pickup Jockies have taught those coyotes that laying low is safer than running. With mating going on right now, the sound of a strange coyote in the territory is frowned upon by the local,s.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2011, 10:26 AM:
 
Just for the record, I shoot the closest coyote first. I guess that's wrong, huh?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 06, 2011, 11:41 AM:
 
"Just for the record, I shoot the closest coyote first. I guess that's wrong, huh?"
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Depends who you ask, but I am with YOU on this one Leonard. A coyote on my stretcher is worth a dozen that ran off.
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 06, 2011, 12:17 PM:
 
I think a good howler or two are the main weapons you need during the breeding season, bedded down or not. Personally, I don't care if he is the closest or the furthest if I know I can kill him with the particular shot he presents. A howl or two from a properly placed ecaller, coupled with a good howl or two from the hunter makes them think a pair has moved in to their territory. They flat out won't tolerate that, at least here in Kentucky they won't.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 06, 2011, 12:27 PM:
 
Well, I read posts on other boards where guys try to sound like a whole family of coyotes when howling. My take is this-----I figure that when I howl, it is better to sound like just one intruder rather than two or more. I believe that a pissed off coyote is more likely to come in to chase off one intruder than two or more intruders.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2011, 01:00 PM:
 
Makes sense. But it depends on the cover, and the population, too.

I'll tell you one thing I believe. If you don't know Higgins' proper & "politically correct" howl, just fake it. The only way you're going to learn is by your mistakes.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 06, 2011, 03:24 PM:
 
"I'll tell you one thing I believe. If you don't know Higgins' proper & "politically correct" howl, just fake it."
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Almost funny Leonard. If some people knew 1/3 as much coyote language as they THINK they do, these people would be billionaires. Coyote language is 98 percent inflection, well at least 98 percent anyway.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 06, 2011, 05:36 PM:
 
Randy R. made two cat stands and one coyote stand this evening. No cats, but killed a good size male on one of teh cat stands. He was young. Called and killed a pair on the coyote stand. Two groups of coyotes holwed and yipped back at me. It sounded like 4 in each group.
Anyway this pair came from a ways, the others would have had to cross a deep creek running good wiith the snow melt off. The ones I kilt.."thats Okie LB" looked to be yearlins past. I had the other two from that bunch worked up pretty good, but ran out of light.
Will be back after them shortly. Good to see a pair respond. This is my fav time of year.

Yall stay after them
Kelly
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 06, 2011, 07:19 PM:
 

quote:

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Well, I read posts on other boards where guys try to sound like a whole family of coyotes when howling. My take is this-----I figure that when I howl, it is better to sound like just one intruder rather than two or more. I believe that a pissed off coyote is more likely to come in to chase off one intruder than two or more intruders.

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