The New Huntmastersbbs!: Calling in February/March

This is topic Calling in February/March in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

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Posted by Coydog (Member # 1089) on February 17, 2009, 07:54 AM:

Couple questions for you guys.

With breeding season on, is it time to stick with coyote sounds when calling? If so, what sounds would be most likely to trigger the best response and how should you series the sounds?
Just mainly looking for a general starting point, as I realize every situation may not be the same.

[ February 17, 2009, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Coydog ]

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 17, 2009, 07:10 PM:

I have found that using prey distress sounds works better for me in February, March and April than howling does. Ass backwards maybe but it seems I get more response this way. Hunting in mid-afternoon in March is always the best time for me in my area.
I did howl one in a couple nights ago. I could follow it by its responses every few minutes but never made visual contact with it. I was using what I would deem an invitation howl. Someone else might just say it sounds like a random off brand lone howl. [Big Grin]

(Take my advice with a grain of salt. I ride the short bus.)

[ February 17, 2009, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]

Posted by Coydog (Member # 1089) on February 18, 2009, 04:42 AM:

Thanks for the reply Smithers, they wont even let me on the short bus yet.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 18, 2009, 04:56 AM:

The coyote howls work well during breeding season, but I am thinking that most of the breeding has already taken place by now. Howling will still call some coyotes now, but it's kinda like bass fishing. Spawning season may be over but you can still catch a few fish if you work hard enough at it.

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 18, 2009, 02:38 PM:

Mr. Cronk, 'most' of the breeding having already taken place may be debatable.

Interestingly, I found a spot today where one coyote had urinated (me using my brain surmised it was possibly the female) and there was blood in the urine soaked snow. From the tracks it looked like there was a pair, one track met up with the other on a trail coming out of the woods. The one urinated and the other according to my interpretation of the tracks, came in after and was smelling the urine. Or, or could it have had a bloody nose or a bloody mouse hanging out of it's mouth and dripped the blood into it's mates urine? [Wink]

Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 18, 2009, 03:41 PM:

I'd have to say that "Most" of the breeding has been done around here in Kaintucky. We don't keep enough snow around to check the urine and blood, but I saw enough pups last spring in April and May that were obviously two months old or older to indicate their parents bred in December or January. I still use a non threatening howl or two to start most stands though, as it never hurts IMO. If they don't come looking for love in all the wrong places, they come out of curiosity or territorial protection. A lot of last year's brood are trying to get their territories established, and many have never bonded with a mate or running buddy. You fellows that live in extremely cold climates may experience entirely different breeding periods.

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on February 18, 2009, 03:45 PM:

Most of the breeding is over, at least for those of us in this discussion (IA/MI/IN/KY).

Some will trickle in early and trickle out late... but primetime has come and gone by now. Seems my coyotes skipped from "Frisky" to "locked-up" quick this season. Perhaps because the peak rut phase coincided with the worst ice storm our region has ever seen!?

[ February 18, 2009, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 18, 2009, 04:04 PM:

Jrb and possumal, how does one know when most of the coyotes in a given population have been bred. Are you going off of female coyotes killed that have evidence of being bred?
I have no evidence to the contrary but I am asking an honest question.
To the untrained eye, what gives it away? The afterglow? [Smile]

Posted by Coydog (Member # 1089) on February 18, 2009, 04:17 PM:

I am fairly green to calling, at least to the levels you guys have taken it to.
For me, calling was squallin on a rabbit call a few series and that was it.
Since these forums opened up, I couldn't believe how many different tactics can be applied to be more successfull.

Why is it tough calling now.
I would think coyotes would be pretty territorial right now, and aggressive to sounds of another coyote in their hood.
Breeding is done, or wrapping up.
What is happening now.
Between breeding and the litter being born, do the pairs stay in close knit?
Are they sticking closer to possible denning locations already?

Maybe this should be another post, but if you were to do a calling series using just coyote vocalization, could you describe that series for me? How long? etc

thanks from a fur trapper trying to become a greenhorn caller

By the way, Wiley, if you read this, missed you at the NTA, but am still interested in trying to get you to come to the corn capitol one of these years! Don't go getting terminal on me.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2009, 04:46 PM:

quote:
Jrb and possumal, how does one know when most of the coyotes in a given population have been bred.

Why they Huff the holes! and not the ones in the ground.. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on February 18, 2009, 05:24 PM:

Tim, I'm still trying to catch up on voicemails, emails and private messages from folks thanking me for handing you your brown-nosing ass earlier this week. Ain't no time for round 2 right now.

Smithers, most of the females I killed 3/4 weeks ago were swolen and bleeding... this timeframe was shared by callers & trappers across this state and a few others in the Midwest. Slightly earlier than normal: and the behavior patterns shifted quickly thereafter.

I have a couple trapping buddies that catch and hold live coyotes, others are into breeding as well. From their experiences I'm told coyotes trickle into and out of a primary breeding window... similar to deer. I notice those windows most clearly thru regularly watching coyote behavior.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2009, 09:11 PM:

LOL Jason; Would you believe i got similar E-mails about you also.. One of them came from a ADC trapper.. [Eek!]

I like games! How far you want to take it is up to you..LOL [Razz]

[ February 18, 2009, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 19, 2009, 04:14 AM:

Gestation period for coyotes is considered by most to be 63 days. Since most coyote pups are born in last part of april to early may, it is pretty good guess to say that most of the breeding females are pregnant by march 1st. As JRB as already stated, the breeding females don't all come in to heat at same time, sort of like we see in deer breeding habits. My theory is that coyotes don't come to rabbit screams very well in jan. and feb. for two reasons. By january the coyotes have heard the dying rabbit blues so many times that they can hum it. Then you have the fact that coyotes are like teen agers during this time. They are more interested in sex than food. The howl of a strange coyote in the area at this time causes territorial response from resident coyotes. Of course you will also have sexually aroused coyotes approaching to see how sexy that stranger over there looks. Then you have the plain old curious coyote that comes in just to see what the heck is going on over yonder.

Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 19, 2009, 10:45 AM:

The key word here is "Most". Nobody said all females were bred already. I can't speak much about what happens in other states; my comments are about the coyotes in this climate, in this area. I killed a bonded pair Wednesday before last, which was February 4. The female was obviously bred, appearing to be at least 30 days into her gestation period. Other females are that far along and some a little farther, some less. They obviously don't all come into season with the flip of a switch. The closer the female gets to whelping time, the closer she stays to the whelping den, and you see the males hunting alone for both of them, and later for the mom and the pups. They get really aggressive and territorial during that period of time. Get setup between where the male is hunting and where the female is going to whelp, or has already whelped the pups, and coyote pup distress is a sure winner. Seeing so many pups last spring in April and May that were already 8 to 10 weeks old makes me think a lot of the females are being bred in December & early January around here.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 19, 2009, 12:17 PM:

I usually don't hunt coyotes past January to respect the denning season. It's not a fur issue for me, and I wouldn't like the powers that be, to impose a mandatory season, but I personally honor it.

But, we need to realize that the passenger pigeon was wiped out this way, (indiscriminate killing) and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to the coyote.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on February 19, 2009, 06:06 PM:

Leonard, you sound like someone that went to logic school, probably El Monte High School lol.

Kill a bitch coyote when she has pups and you probably killed 7 or 8 coyotes. Do it 5 times and have a few others do it 5 times, something has got to give.

Coyotes don't grow on trees do they? I don't think passenger pigeons did either. [Smile]

Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 19, 2009, 06:47 PM:

I can see Leonard's point of view as well as others who don't hunt during the breeding season at all. Problem is that the farmers around here who let me hunt are having serious problems with losing calves and other livestock to coyotes, not just newborns either. They don't necessarily want every coyote exterminated, but they sure want the problem coyotes kept under control. So if I want to hunt in this area, I have to show up and help them with their problem. I know I can't kill them all and don't want to, but pleasing the farmers is my main goal. There is a huge difference in hunting the kind of farms we have around here and vast open country like other states have. Smaller tracts of land, cut up with lots of fences makes it a tough game.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 20, 2009, 12:25 AM:

I was just tossing bait. Good luck on exterminating coyotes! Why, you just knock the poor little critters out of a tree with a stick...right?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 20, 2009, 02:17 AM:

If those smelly rascals climb up into my roosting tree, I'll swing by my prehensile tail and whop 'em! [Wink]

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 20, 2009, 05:26 AM:

But, we need to realize that the passenger pigeon was wiped out this way, (indiscriminate killing) and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to the coyote.

Haven't studies shown that, generally, more hunting causes the population to grow instead of decline, overall. Especially if the dominant male is taken out of the picture. [Wink]

I take an average of 46 coyotes per stand so... I've been known to take sextuplets with one well placed bullet.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 20, 2009, 05:51 AM:

When the Iowa legislator's out law chasing coyotes down with ATV's and pickup trucks, while using cell phones to help keep track of the coyote's direction of retreat, I might consider changing my calling schedule. Calling requires quite a lot more of the hunting skills, and a hell of a lot more fairness to the coyotes if you get my drift. [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 20, 2009, 10:17 AM:

If you find a roadkill, help out a momma. It only takes a minute to leave it close to a den. If we can spare $2 million for the octuplets, we can surely help the environment and the planet by ensuring that these critters survive. PETA, are you listening?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Bluetrapper (Member # 288) on February 21, 2009, 10:54 AM:

Finally found the site again after 2 yrs or so.Divorce etc. has kept me away.I feel like I've got my sanity back (single again and finding this site again).After lurching around that other site a while I feel the need to puk. I don't know where you are located Coydog but in my part of the state we have a lot of hound hunters, this affects the breeding season and makes the calling difficult.I still have some luck howling but they won't answer during the daylight so I give them some time to come in. With all the pressure put on them from all the other seasons (deer etc.)they are real slow to respond this time of the year. Mark

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 21, 2009, 11:18 AM:

Hmm? Welcome back. If you punch in The New Huntmasters , it comes up in a Google search, not that hard to find?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Bluetrapper (Member # 288) on February 21, 2009, 11:45 AM:

Couldn't remember the damn name.Says something about heading past 50.

Posted by Coydog (Member # 1089) on February 22, 2009, 04:13 PM:

Thanks for all the feedback.

Leonard, for clarification, I am not intending on raining hell with coyotes this time of year, even if I really had the ability to. I have a growing pocket of mange in my area I would like to do the best I can to try and knock it down.Keyword (try).

Bluetrapper, I am in Central Iowa, and yes we have hound hunters, and 4 wheel drive mafia as well. More Hound hunting to the South of me.

I am pretty much all done with fur for the year, just would like to stay on the mange if I can.

I have done quite a bit of locating with a howler preseason trapping to get an idea of what might be out there, and like I posted earlier have called a few with basic rabbit distress.

My main question which may not have been clear, is if I was going to do a stand with just coyote vocalization, mixing howling, barks, yips/or kiyees or other coyote sounds, what would be the advise from those who have done this on how to series those sounds.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 23, 2009, 08:50 AM:

Okay, here's a decidedly nonprofessorial reply. Just get out there and mix it up; and I'll tell you why. The experts are still debating what "lonesome" and "greeting" and "invitation" mean. Just use what you know and duplicate the rest. Fake it, that's the only way you are going to learn what works; and besides, what might work tomorrow won't work next week and what works on one specific coyote might not work on another. Throw the kitchen sink at them, imitate what they respond, and keep an eye peeled downwind. Might not hurt to use a little Higgins mist, either?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Coydog (Member # 1089) on February 23, 2009, 09:28 AM:

Thanks Leonard,
The kitchen sink it is.

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on February 23, 2009, 10:56 AM:

quote:
Okay, here's a decidedly nonprofessorial reply. Just get out there and mix it up; and I'll tell you why. The experts are still debating what "lonesome" and "greeting" and "invitation" mean. Just use what you know and duplicate the rest. Fake it, that's the only way you are going to learn what works; and besides, what might work tomorrow won't work next week and what works on one specific coyote might not work on another. Throw the kitchen sink at them, imitate what they respond, and keep an eye peeled downwind.

that right there is some of the best advise I have read on one of these sights to date

well said LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 25, 2009, 05:18 AM:

"Might not hurt to use a little Higgins mist, either?"
-------------------------
Ya'all can't fool ME Leonard, I know who invented misting. [Smile]

Posted by cyotekiller (Member # 3204) on February 25, 2009, 09:30 AM:

you dont evn have to put the nw huntmasters just put in huntmasters or just type in your your name papa =P that how i found it any way i just discoverd that the den onthe prop out here has a pup or few in it hav heard em evry night not to mention i saw 3 cyotes taunting my cow the other mornin on my way to school

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 25, 2009, 04:42 PM:

"i just discoverd that the den onthe prop out here has a pup or few in it"
---------------------------
Wow, that is either a good fish story or a mighty short gestation period. Pups in february? My B.S. meter is going off big time.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2009, 05:19 PM:

That's my grandson, Robbie shaking your BS meter. He may not know what a pup sounds like, but he knows there are resident coyotes on the property and they eat cats.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 25, 2009, 09:33 PM:

Leonard,
I just grinned and turned the B.S. meter off. Tell your Grandson that Cronk gets scared at the shadows in his room at night. Don't like it shadows. How old is your grandson?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2009, 12:24 AM:

Robbie is a Junior in HS, just turned 17 six days ago. R.O.T.C. too. He calls me Papa.

His older brother Aaron is patrolling the road between Kuwait City and Baggdad, right now, in fact. He's the one on the 50 Cal. They escort VIP arabs in convoy. Kinda scary, the IED's etc. but it's pretty quiet, they tell me?

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 26, 2009, 04:38 AM:

"His older brother Aaron is patrolling the road between Kuwait City and Baggdad, right now, in fact."
----------------------------------
Maybe my new son-in-law will meet him. Matt was in Kuwait yesterday, but is likely back in Iraq by now. They are going to transfer him to Mozul (spelling?) real soon. My wife tied some yellow ribbons out on our front porch a couple days ago.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2009, 11:36 AM:

Aaron is actually the hazmat specialist in a transportation company. Their sole mission is protecting Arabs traveling to and from Baggdad in their air conditioned Limos. Yeah, I guess it's possible they have met?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2009, 03:17 PM:

Just got back from my little hunting trip. Most of the breeding is winding down, but on one stand we had 3 coyotes out on a hillside still gang banging.. Rabbit sounds still seemed to work well in most areas... [Razz]

Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on February 26, 2009, 03:43 PM:

TA,
How about some pictures of that "gang bang" big fella!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2009, 04:27 PM:

I don't have the cam mount for my Cam yet so no pic's where taken, but i have two other witness..
Besides my pic posting days are over.. [Razz]

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 26, 2009, 04:46 PM:

I seen 5 grouped together on a place I can't hunt last Sunday afternoon. Watched them for about 20 minutes thinking I might see something interesting.
I expect there was a hot bitch in the group, but have no way of knowing.

[ February 26, 2009, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 26, 2009, 06:35 PM:

GAWD,just what we need around here Coyote Porn..lol [Roll Eyes]

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