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Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on January 07, 2009, 07:03 PM:
 
Does a full moon effect daytime calling? I have had some real good days with a full moon and some not so good days as well.Thanks J.W.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 07, 2009, 07:20 PM:
 
That's a very good question! It's a good question because nobody can give you a definitive answerbased on only full moon conditions.

So, what we have left is opinion. I (kind of) think that a full mooon can be better than other phases. I have absolutely nothing to support my opinion. A full moon won't make or break a hunt, but it cannot hurt, when other conditions are right.

It would be interesting to hear what others think.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 07, 2009, 08:17 PM:
 
Opinions on the moon phases are like elbows; everybody's entitled to a couple of them.
One group claims that coyotes feed all night under a full moon and calling that day will be poor.

Another group will claim that coyotes will move further from their core areas under a full moon and spend longer in the first hours of daylight returning. Calling should be good.

Trappers tend to like no moon as the best time to fill traps. Go figure.

Personally; I would be more interested in what effect local conditions are having on the prey species.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 07, 2009, 09:07 PM:
 
I like the new moon the best, but then Kokopelli has already explained why.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 08, 2009, 06:32 AM:
 
My own personal experience is that daytime calling sucks on a full moon. I don't have a good reason why. I'm going with Behle on this one. New moon to half or so seems to be the best calling days.
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 08, 2009, 06:56 AM:
 
I prefer darkness over brightness when night hunting and I believe coyotes do too. Probably for the same reasons. This isn't an indicator of moon phases so much as an indicator of light levels. (Clouds/Ambient Light/Ect)

That being said, I've found lunar charts to be reasonably effective at patterning coyote movements only in the darker (waxing/waning) phases. When the moon is full and the sun is high- I think you need some heavy clouds or dense cover to make a coyote comfortable enough to kill.

I think statistically its tougher calling in full moon conditions: but other variables and techniques can help override the disadvantage. It may change WHERE or HOW I hunt, but it doesn't keep me from calling.

I'm hoping for some cloud cover this weekend!


 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 08, 2009, 07:04 AM:
 
This season in November. The day after the full moon, my partner and I hunted all day and killed six. The first coyote didn’t show up till around 9:30
In December on the day of the full moon, I got to hunt till noon. Called four and killed three. I had a coyote show up on the first stand and killed two at 11;30

I hunt when I can, but I had rather day hunt under a full moon than fight 20-30 MPH winds any day.
Kelly
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on January 08, 2009, 03:20 PM:
 
My shoot from the hip gut reaction is that all kinds of daylight hunting is worse during times of a full moon, then I read Kelly's response and that forces me to qualify that a bit.

I think early morning hunting is not as good after a night of full moon/good visibility when compared to morning hunt after a night of poor visibility.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 10, 2009, 02:48 PM:
 
I'm of the school of thought that my best days after a full moon have been unproductive until mid-morning, say, around 10:00 or so. By then, I figure, they're getting hungry and wanting to move around a bit. With this in mind, tomorrow morning before sunrise, we'll be advancing on a large dead pile near a large swine operation to set up an ambush. We hunted that area Thursday and spotted a group of seven that gave us the slip. Hunting the rangeland in the area, we found that every trail within three miles had black coyote poop laden with pig hair. Maybe we'll get lucky.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 02:55 PM:
 
Lance, he asked about daytime CALLING, not ambush over deadpiles. Good luck with those uncircumsized pork eating coyotes.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 10, 2009, 03:17 PM:
 
I'm not sure what the moon phase was back on Dec.12-18 But i had good luck calling then. On my last trip the calling was good the 2nd and 3rd day and then tapered off some, the dates where Jan.2-8.
I never plan my hunts on the moon phases, I just watch the weather for a open window of no wind or very little and go hunting..
At home the only difference i see in coyote movement is just after a big storm. The coyotes seem to feed in heavey cover the day of a storm and the day after, after that movement is back to normal and the hunt is on..
 

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Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on January 10, 2009, 03:52 PM:
 
The only correlation I have made with the moon phase and my success rate has been at night. The dark half is the better half. For daytime calling I can’t say that I have noticed a difference.

Some days are just better than other days. Sometimes for logical reasons like the passing of a weather front or on the eve of one. Other times it is just good for no particular reason. It can be bad for no real reason too.

Some things I have noticed that are indicators of a good day are by watching my dogs. When they are just restless and noisy in the mornings I know it is going to be a good day. Also when I see a lot of deer activity or they are out later in the mornings than usual it is a good sign.

I just hunt when I can and try not to get caught up in all the celestial signs or any other reasoning factor. If you go into a hunt thinking it will be bad because of the wrong moon phase or the wrong weather it probably will be bad. It is just a distraction I do not need so I go hunt and let the chips fall where they may.

Good hunting.

Q,
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on January 10, 2009, 04:10 PM:
 
The only effect i ever had was that the dark moons are Carhart nights and full moons are camo nights,
I am not bothered by the moon hunting ,,fishing i play the moon,When i am hunting a like hunting fronts, before and after, i have found that in my area i hunt that the day before a front rolls in and the day after it rolls out are my best times to be out.
The 2nd and 3rd day after a big front has rolled out are usually the worst days for calling for me,,
Also humility and wind current plays a roll in my success,,,
really cold ,cold ,cold, nights with a front moving in you can go wrong ether with a full moon or no moon

[ January 10, 2009, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by newbomb (Member # 888) on January 10, 2009, 04:38 PM:
 
George carhart is making camo clothing again. Tough to beat that stuff.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 10, 2009, 07:03 PM:
 
Leonard,

The point was that I haven't had a lot of luck the morning after a full moon, so I look for an alternative strategy which, in this case, is an ambush. It may or may not work, but it still gives me an effective strategy to work with come sunrise.

As far as them being uncircumcised, I can't say that I've ever looked them over that close. did find a new dead pile this noon, complete with a large heifer, all bloated and 'bout half frozen. The coyotes hadn't found her yet, but it's only a matter of time since the area is covered with bones from carcasses of the past few years. To help them out, I blew a couple holes in her belly with the shotgun to ventilate her a bit. Had to do it from downwind. Yowzers! Kinda like jumpin' that pig pile in the morning, it'll either work,... or it won't.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 07:48 PM:
 
The moon, all by itself is real hard to decipher as it relates to hunting predators in general and coyotes, specifically.

I feel that coyotes run at night during full moons and new moons, but the deal seems to be that they are a lot more spooky under a full moon. I agree with that, but also know that it is a visibility issue, as much as anything. I don't know if they hunt less under a new moon, but they are more easily called so the success ratio is usually better when there is no moon. That also applies to when the moon has not risen and after it sets, even if it may be the first or third quarter. When the moon is down, either they run better, or those that are running just seem more cooperative?

I always like to mention that cold high pressure conditions under a new moon should be your best bet.

Now, the question at the moment is day hunting during a full moon. As I said above, I can't prove any of it, but I feel it is a little better and I will float one theory I have heard.

Coyotes, being spooky as hell at night during a full moon, and maybe not hunting all that ambitiously(?) are much more comfortable, (and correspondingly) hungrier, hunting during the day, or, at least; responding to a distress or howl during daylight hours following a bright moonlit night.

I can't say it is graven in stone someplace, and there are so many extenuating circumstances that the true answer is ellusive. All things being equal, weather, barometric pressure, the planets in alignment, progress of the season, all that shit, I think my personal experience favors day hunting during a full moon. Been wrong before.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 12, 2009, 06:58 AM:
 
A little update on my personal experience of Day/Night calling under a full moon.

Friday night we had clear skies and 20mph winds. I could see a farmdog at 300 yards in my NightForce without any lighting assistance. Due to the winds we postponed our hunt to begin at 3am... in hopes some cloud cover would roll in and winds would lay down. There was a "chance" of rain beginning after daylight (8am) and lasting until noon.

My first stand was on a farm that holds very low numbers of coyotes this year. Calling a coyote here requires catching a coyote on it- and this wasn't my day. The second stand produced a pair of coyotes quickly, I killed the first at 30 yards and the second made a quick escape. The third stand, 5:15am, was going very nicely when I found myself drenched in this premature "chance of rain". Over 1/2 mile from the truck in a chisel plowed field... lightening blinding me and mud weighing me down. Further examination found 90% of my clothing soaked by this 20% chance of rain.

The rain was shortlived, but clouds hung in all day. By 3pm I was done napping and fleshing so I started calling again. The first stand was heavily wooded and holds low percentages on coyotes. Nothing. The second stand is a piece of property I'm using to study calling pressure on coyotes... I believe it’s been called 9 times in 3 months and produces visuals or vocals on coyotes over 80% of the time. I intended to kill a coyote here, for the first time of the season, but none showed. There have been 5 coyotes here since I started working them in late September. Our approach to this stand was very good on Saturday evening- we called for over an hour. I had all the confidence in the world that this stand would work. When it didn't, I felt like we were wasting our time in the daylight.

Our first nighttime stand was surrounded by ambient light, roads, houses and cattle- but produced a pair of red foxes. I killed them both, this double on red fox was a first for me. The next 9 hours were spent running stands on 9 more properties that haven’t produced kills in 2007 or 2008. This is a stretch of country we usually bypass if we’re looking for fur- so what better place to prove or disprove a theory?

The tally from those 10 night stands.


These were great results for the tight cover, hilly terrain and low densities I was hunting. These weren’t “Cream of the Crop” stands or virgin ears… this was a fair test for my records of full moon calling. The cloud cover was mediocre, allowing good visibility with the naked eye, and shots beyond 125 yards thru a good scope. The coyotes appeared less concerned with wind direction than normal. 2 of the coyotes were old battle-scarred males approaching 45/50 pounds. Only 2 coyotes were spotted and not killed in this hunt. They scattered when their partner was killed between them.

Here are the moon phase diagrams from November & December of 2008.


I’ve taken over 50 predators at night since 10/15… and all indications are that DARK nights are still best. However, 11/13 – 12/15 and 1/10 have solidified some of my tactics for calling coyotes under big moons. Daytime calling, which I’m more experience and comfortable with, has proven most successful under low light days following low light nights. The “timeframe” of callups on those days seems to relate more to the terrain I’m calling than the position of the moon. I’m often waking up coyotes in these hardwoods- and that’s usually more successful in mid-day hours.

I think it’s easy to skew the results of this research by hunting your own belief system. If you’re confident on cloudy days- you’ll crank out more stands and therefore have better results. I try to hunt every stand with the enthusiasm and drive I put into any other… but it’s hard! I think it’s also important not to let 1 or 2 stands here and there develop a pattern (good or bad) in your mind… there are few scenarios where a coyote CANNOT be called. If any. Also, the variation in our locations, techniques, equipment and experiences will certainly make our opinions on the same topic waiver. As long as you have plenty of land access, I say “Make stands and think of an excuse later!”
 

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Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on January 12, 2009, 07:30 AM:
 
"The cloud cover was mediocre, allowing good visibility with the naked eye, and shots beyond 125 yards thru a good scope."

Are you night hunting under a full moon with no spotlight and no snow cover? I'm asking because I have tried it here for grins and couldn't see a darn thing with the naked eye. Yea, I could see, but I couldn't see good enough to stay out there. I felt like I was wasting my time.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 12, 2009, 07:30 AM:
 
This Full moon weekend all daytime stands. High winds and clear skies.




 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 12, 2009, 07:40 AM:
 
Thanks for the moon phase diagrams Jason. I can see that on my first hunting trip that i was hunting dureing a almost and full moon. ( Dec 12-18 )
On my second trip i hunted dureing the beginning of a new moon up to almost full(Jan. 2-9 )
On first trip i called or saw coyotes most everyday Vrs. second trip where i was seeing very few. On my first trip i was calling in -15 temps Vrs. 5-28 degree temps. For wind direction it was always changeing from day to day, N-W, east, S-E. and S-W. I did notice some of my better days was when wind was out of the N-W or straight out of the East..
I also noticed on second trip i had tobe calling closer to the coyotes Vrs. first trip where they where seen comeing in from a long ways.
I don't know if any of this info is helpfull or even makes a difference...

At the present time here at home the coyotes have been holding very tite and are not traveling to far from heavey cover..
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 12, 2009, 07:55 AM:
 
Joel, I use a variety of LightForce lights and lenses and Nightforce scopes depending on the conditions. I also use NightVision scopes in different applications.

Calling by ambient light as you described is not productive for me either. I use a light source at all times... usually on a rheostat. I've killed one nighttime coyote in 10 years without a light source.

Our "night vision" is decieving... seeing a clump of trees at 300 does not constitute catching a coyote slipping in at 75. My experience in night hunting without the reflection of eyes is miserable, with any equipment, in any conditions. The only guys I know doing it well- have consistant snow levels of 2-4 feet all winter long.

Kelly, looks like you had a great weekend! I know you saved those honey holes for the contest... and I hope it served you well. How did you place?
 

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Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on January 12, 2009, 08:34 AM:
 
Okay, thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant you were having success with the moon only (and no snow). Some day, before I'm dead, it is going to snow here enough to cover the ground, with a full moon. Boy howdy, the stars will have been aligned for THAT to have happen. LOL But I've always wanted to try it. Maybe someday.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 12, 2009, 08:37 AM:
 
Jason,
They had 75 teams and paid 4 monies.
It was a one day contest. When we left check in, we were in a 3 or 4 way tie for 5th. We only had four coyotes on Saturday.
Hunted my partner’s places.
My area does not work well for contest hunting. Too scattered.

Got up Sunday morning and we made 4 stands and picked up two more coyotes, before I headed to the house.

When I got home the wind had slicked off and I couldn’t stand it, so made two stands right at dark. Just killed the one.
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 12, 2009, 08:57 AM:
 
Hell Joel, a man in your position (MIDLAND TX) should not have to WANT for anything in the predator world. I'd gladly trade you a couple full moon nights over snowcover for a dark night in your calling rack! LOL!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2009, 09:17 AM:
 
All interesting stuff, but tell you what. Can't draw conclusions based on this weekend, last month, or whatever parameters seem the most influential. It's very complicated, especially if the documentation involves only moon phase, with perhaps some weather conditions. Another thing I am not quite convinced is the blending circumstance, transition between night hunting and day stands; is there a continuation because of "other" considerations?

If your truck stoped running because you ran out of gas last month, is that the only reason why it won't start this morning? One thing for sure, when we have some degree of success, we tend to see reasons for it. When it's a bust, where do you start?

I'm still confident that hunting at night with a new moon is about the best you can hope for. After that, there are other considerations, favorable and unfavorable.

Day stands? It's still murky. You might as well compare the last week of December with the first week of January. It is a different thing if the coyotes are actively hunting versus bedded down. Now, exactly why are they bedded down, and actively hunting a few days later? That's why it starts to get complicated.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 12, 2009, 09:34 AM:
 
How are we supposed to derive silver-bullet advise from a post like that Leonard?

I agree 110%. I'm merely chiseling away at a combination of factors... some factors in my control, some factors beyond my control. By tweaking which cards I play according to which cards I'm given on the flop- I can overcome odds that keep many local guys home. I believe those variables, odds and percentages are even more crucial in my region than most.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2009, 09:46 AM:
 
Yeah, and then you can outsmart yourself, just as easily.

I was playing a hand a while back and filled in a straight flush on the turn. I made a max bet and the other guy folded his hand! Well, this was a jackpot hand worth a lot of money, but! He didn't call, (a requirement, must be a showdown) and all I did was win the pot.

I should have checked my hand, to make sure he was in. Well, kiss that jackpot goodbye, live and learn.

All that does in relation to predator hunting is there will be a few victories and a few disappointments. Some you can control and some, you can't

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 12, 2009, 04:22 PM:
 
It seems like I have had better luck when it's a new moon for day calling.So alot of the road trips I go on I TRY to plan around that moon phase.But I also will do alittle night calling then to so that's part of the reason I go with the new moon.That being said I wouldn't not go calling because it's a full moon.FWIW

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 16, 2009, 09:16 AM:
 
The results of the recent Midwest coyote calling event, during a full moon, would suggest that moon phase is irrelevant to success.

I Understand that there is more variables involved than just moon phase (weather, better calling and shooting techniques, etc.), but the results of the Midwest wouldn't support the notion that moon phase deters success. If moon phase did deter success, I doubt that weather and techniques improved enough to offset it that much.

My experiences would also suggest that moon phase, in and of itself, was not much of a factor. Coyotes hunt when they're hungry, period. Hunger doesn't correspond with moon phase.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 11:02 AM:
 

quote:

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The results of the recent Midwest coyote calling event, during a full moon, would suggest that moon phase is irrelevant to success.

I Understand that there is more variables involved than just moon phase (weather, better calling and shooting techniques, etc.), but the results of the Midwest wouldn't support the notion that moon phase deters success. If moon phase did deter success, I doubt that weather and techniques improved enough to offset it that much.

My experiences would also suggest that moon phase, in and of itself, was not much of a factor. Coyotes hunt when they're hungry, period. Hunger doesn't correspond with moon phase.

~SH~

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quote:

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Coyotes hunt when they're hungry, period.

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Could coyotes correspond their feeding in anticipation of certain conditions (light levels?)- such that their "hunger" doesn't hit them at an inopportune time?

In other words, are they in control.. or victims of... their own diet?

I can't argue anything that's been said here- just curious who's at the wheel, the brain or the stomach.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 16, 2009, 01:03 PM:
 
I never realized gravitational pull blah blah blah was even a part of the argument. I thought the argument was simply that coyotes can see better on a full moon and thus hunt better nocturnally during the full moon. Thus being less likely to repond during the day.

I'm probably wrong, but with this is mind, It sounds like Scott is saying, "bologna!" There were lots of coyotes called and killed during the full moon. I think he's saying "coyotes hunt when they are hungry, period!" - regardless of light levels diurnally or nocturnally.

Based on my simple thinking, Scott's post made perfect sense to me.

[ January 16, 2009, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 01:52 PM:
 
It's not that you are wrong, Danny, but you are predicating something on an assumption. That assumption is; coyotes can see better hunting at night during a full moon, get a full belly and aren't hungry the nexst day? Therefore, if these guys managed to kill 350 odd coyotes on a full moon weekend, they were hungry and were not very successful the night before?

When I hunted the St Francis three years ago, the property owner (slipped) said that his lawyer had been out night hunting his properties that same weekend. Now, what sort of effect do you think that might have had on our success the following days? That's just one easy to read example, but there could easily be more blah blah blah to the argument.

But, if his post made sense to you, you are a brilliant man, indeed; because I still am not sure what he is saying, and what he thinks those results prove or disprove?

Good hunting. LB

[ January 16, 2009, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on January 16, 2009, 02:26 PM:
 
I am just a dumbassed cajun but here are my thought on the matter. It may have been stated by others in times past but never seen or heard it.

Predators prowl at night, both 4 legged and 2 legged. Even when night diving, the marine life is more active at night. That is a given.

Here is where my cajun logic kicks in. There is no doubt a canine can see in the dark. he does not require a full moon to travel. The prey animals also travel at night and with the aid of a full moon, they will be more active due to the fact they can see better and therfore possible avoid an encounter with said predator. Said predators know this therefore they are more active hunting the more active prey. Only problem is he may see more prey but they can see him too. kinda counterproductive in my twisted cajun mind.

The activity of animal life is more geared to gravitainal pulls than to whether the moon is full or not, they just happen to coincide about once a month
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 16, 2009, 03:23 PM:
 
Randy's comments bring to mind something I've contributed to this discussion previously when it has been hashed around. Might as well throw it in there again.

Granted, this was twenty years ago, and admittedly, I haven't seen anything on it since, but my college advisor studied small mammal populations and he conducted a number of studies on activity levels in various species of rats, mice and voles under different moon phases and their results demonstrated that rodents were typically less active on both full and new moons, with the most activity being observed in between. If I recall correctly, his rationale for this was that the excess light of a full moon made prey excessively vulnerable to predators by making them more visible, while full darkness made it more difficult for them to see potential danger because of the absence of light. Of course, this all makes logical sense, but as I said, I haven't seen any literature to contradict these results, probably because I haven't been looking for it. One would derive from this information, though, that because prey are less inclined to be active, the hunting would be poorer, and the coyotes would be hungrier the next day making calling potentially better. Then again, because of less access to prey, the coyotes may have to hunt all night, and, by morning, be exhausted and less willing to leave the comfort of a warm bed, thus making then hunting worse.

If this is true, then it stands to reason that the only true influencing factor would be light levels, and even if the coyotes are hunting more, the lower activity levels by rodents would offset any benefit derived by the coyotes.

As far as this point that Leonard made,

" I would suggest that if every other factor would fall into place, barometric and other weather conditions, then it just might be possible to see a slight advantage in gravitational influences by the moon."

I've never been comfortable with claims that the moon's phase and its resultant gravitational influences made any difference. After all, whether the moon overhead is full, waning, waxing or new, the entire moon is still there - just part, all or none of it is illuminated - and one would think that its magnetic pull would remain consistent regardless of phase. Maybe the true influence of the moon has less to do with its phase and more to do with where it is either overhead or beneath you on the other side of the world. Has anyone ever looked at lunar transit, i.e., moonrise, transit, and moonset, and its influence on hunting coyotes?

Ahh, what the hell. I think I'll make my mind up about whether I hunt or not based more on how MY night went, rather than theirs.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 16, 2009, 04:11 PM:
 

quote:

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It's not that you are wrong, Danny, but you are predicating something on an assumption. That assumption is; coyotes can see better hunting at night during a full moon, get a full belly and aren't hungry the nexst day?.....

But, if his post made sense to you, you are a brilliant man, indeed; because I still am not sure what he is saying, and what he thinks those results prove or disprove?

Good hunting. LB

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Just for the record, I don't believe the theory I just described what I thought the theory actually was. Seems like Scott is saying he doesn't believe the theory either. I wish Scott would reply because now I am putting words into his mouth. LOL sorry about that Scott.

And for the record too, I think you make a great point Leon' about all the other blah blah that could negatively affect a hunt. On one big ranch we hunted, the caretaker told me, "We are asking something new of you guys" (I supposed coyote callers). "Please keep trucks on the trail. We've had some guys running into the pastures." Obviously that was a seriously pressured area.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 04:27 PM:
 
Lance, my fine feathered friend. Have you ever heard of TIDES? Same moon up there, I suppose, but that water gets higher and lower every day and much higher and lower every month. Is this not true?

Good hunting. LB

PS besides, I was very careful to not say there was greater or less activity full moon versus new moon. I only said the coyotes were easier to hunt under a new moon, (at night) for various reasons, and I think, but cannot prove that they are a little more eagar to respond during daylight hours, (edit) during a full moon. I didn't say they were demonstrably more active, and I'm not being slippery. I don't know the reason(s) I just observe.

[ January 16, 2009, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 16, 2009, 04:56 PM:
 

quote:

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levels in various species of rats, mice and voles under different moon phases and their results demonstrated that rodents were typically less active on both full and new moons, with the most activity being observed in between. If I recall correctly, his rationale for this was that the excess light of a full moon made prey excessively vulnerable to predators by making them more visible, while full darkness made it more difficult for them to see potential danger because of the absence of light.

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Lance i'm not takeing a poke at you just want to borrow what you said so i don't have to type something simular..

Since we have snow up here on the ground the mice live beneath the snow. The coyote hunts them by sound and smell not site.. The mouse is pretty much in darkess all winter or atleast till the snow melts...
When i ice fished with my father may years ago we fished according the the barametric pressure, it seemed to be more consistant with the fish when thay would bite and when not. New moon old moon never really made much of a difference..
I watch the coyotes here at home and noticed that only when a storm was moveing in or on its way out did the coyotes behave differently. The coyotes still feed if they where layed up in a area that offered them some protection from the wind.
When i hunted in S.D i had some areas like this where i could call to them and be out of the wind and they would respond..
I agree with others that say just call anytime you can..
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 16, 2009, 05:38 PM:
 

quote:

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Lance, my fine feathered friend. Have you ever heard of TIDES? Same moon up there, I suppose, but that water gets higher and lower every day and much higher and lower every month. Is this not true?

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Yep, heard of 'em. never seen one in Kansas yet.
The issue of tides, if I understand the effect of the moon on tides correctly, supports my query about lunar transit, doesn't it? Changes within the period of a single day caused by the moon's position as it circles the earth? Changes from month to month due to the earth's and moon's relative positions to the sun?

Do the tides change in response to different phases of the moon, or does the tide come in and go out based upon the position of the moon relative to that of the earth? Also, does the degree to which the moon influences the tides change from weak to strong, and somewhere in between, and if so, by what mechanism? In other words, does the tide always come in on a full moon, or is it more a matter of where the moon is in the sky?

The point I was trying to make is that the moon's influence changes as it travels across the sky - daytime or night, directly overhead versus directly beneath on the other side of the globe - in the same manner that the influence of a magnet changes as you pass it over or around an object upon which it has an effect. Not trying to be facetious - this is an honest question: Isn't this how the influence of the moon changes as its position changes, or is its influence constant and unyielding?

Now, to expound upon my challenge to the moon phase question, why would one assume that the influence of the moon would change from phases to phase, assuming it is the degree to which the moon's disc is illuminated, as opposed to where the moon is relative to the earth? After all, whether the moon is full and fully illuminated, or waning and only a crescent sliver, the fact remains that the entire moon is still present and it would only be logical to deduce that the entire moon influences gravitational pull as opposed to only the illuminated part.

Overall, I think people oversimplify the influence of the moon by attributing changes to the degree of illumination, i.e., phase, when, in fact, the phase of the moon is simply nothing more than a handy-dandy indicator of where the moon is relative to the earth and sun, and where it is in its elliptical (not round) orbit around the earth. I feel that the moon does have some influence on coyotes, as well as most other animals on this planet, but I don't attribute its influence solely to the moon and only to the moon. IMO, it's very likely that the moon itself (and its weak gravitational pull) is just one of many, many complex variables involved, including the distance between the moon and earth at any single point in time, as well as the distance between the moon and any one single point on the earth's surface. If true, then it would stand to reason that the moon's influence on the coyotes across the U.S. would differ from locale to locale because the distance between the moon and where you're sitting right now is different than the distance between the moon and the street or road in front of your house.

It's all relative. And I'm bored, so there really is nothing to do but ponder this kinda crap.

Next question: If a large asteroid were to pass close to the earth, and if that asteroid was so large as to possess some degree of gravitational force, what effect would it have on our earth, and would that be a good time to go calling coyotes? Or, not?
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 16, 2009, 05:45 PM:
 
Tim,

My prof's studies were done in snow-free areas, to the best of my recollection, so the conditions you describe would change the outcome because the results of doc's studies don't apply. I believe that his point was that the amount of light influences the behavior of rodents rather than lunar gravity, and that the amount of rodent activity thus impacts predator hunting success. In his opinion, as I recall, life sucks when you're a hungry coyote on a well lit or totally dark night, but in between the two, it's not so bad.

When you're up to your ying-yang in snow, and lunch is burrowed a foot deep under that snow, chances are that lunar phases have little impact, assuming his hypothesis is correct . Your coyotes, under those conditions, are hunting by sound rather than sight. I guess other things would adversely impact success, such as winds.

An interesting sidebar challenge to the whole full moon question...

[ January 16, 2009, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 05:48 PM:
 

quote:

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If a large asteroid were to pass close to the earth,

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I'll wait for some hard data before I dispute it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 05:51 PM:
 
I would point out that mice in burrows under the snow are not in anywhere near total darkness; anywhere that is except 14 foot Wyoming wind driven snow drifts.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 16, 2009, 08:03 PM:
 
Point #1,

Assuming that changes in the magnetic field of the earth caused by the moon or any other "entity" close to the earth cause tides and influence a coyote's callability, I hypothesize that, in the event of an earth-ending catastrophic collision between earth and an asteroid, we might all be dying, but those last few minutes are gonna be some of the best damned hunting you've ever experienced. The decision you have to make is whether you hunker down in the basement with your loved ones like a pansy, whimpering and waiting for the end, or are you hard core enough to be calling coyotes on the last last day of the season?!?

Point #2, the point about full moons and running mice has to do with the degree of visibility the rodent experiences. If the rodent is under the snow, all bets are off because the mouse is out of sight, whether he's under an inch of snow or those 14 Wyoming feet.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 08:56 PM:
 
I see. Apparently, my simple question, (it does not rise to the level of a hypothesis) seems to be not well understood? Perhaps we should change the title of this thread to, Snap Judgements and Half Baked Theories from the Peanut Gallery May I see a show of hands?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2009, 03:51 AM:
 

quote:

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Now, the question at the moment is day hunting during a full moon. As I said above, I can't prove any of it, but I feel it is a little better and I will float one theory I have heard.

Coyotes, being spooky as hell at night during a full moon, and maybe not hunting all that ambitiously(?) are much more comfortable, (and correspondingly) hungrier, hunting during the day, or, at least; responding to a distress or howl during daylight hours following a bright moonlit night.

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Alright, alright. All humor aside, IMO... your response above that states that coyotes are spookier than hell at night and not hunting all that ambitiously because of that is only one part of the equation. The fact that no matter how much they want to hunt, or need to hunt, coupled with the fact that traditional prey species may be much less active, thus much less available, may result in the coyote being less able to procure food during the nighttime hours, thus making him more vulnerable to calling the next day when a free meal offers itself. Having said that, it's been my experience that I don't see many responses until around 9:30 to 10:00 a.m. where I hunt. I can only deduce that the coyotes have had a chance to lay up, get some rest, and are refreshed and ready to hunt by that time of the morning. But, lack the hard data, if you will, to prove it.

Also, under these circumstances, - during a time when you don't think they'll be inclined to respond to prey distress - does anyone offer a switch up and rely more heavily upon howling since territorial defense has little to do with how cold it is, how bright it was during the night, how hungry the coyote might be, or any other reason that may enhance or compromise the coyote's ability to find food?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2009, 06:25 AM:
 
I have long believed that coyotes can see the hunter much better at night when moon is full, and that was the reason that calling at night during full moon wasn't all that successful. It may well be true that coyotes "hunt when they are hungry", but coyotes don't seem to answer calls simply because they are hungry. Moon phase be danged, coyotes are mating now and come to the howl of a stranger real quick. Even during other times of the year, the coyote being the ornery critter he is, he always wants to kill something. Gerry Blair once said "the best time to call coyotes is whenever you have time". Maybe he was on to something?
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2009, 10:57 AM:
 
Good advice. And, I had some time this morning to get out for a bit and it paid off. Three stands, three coyotes called, and three died. The last two were worthy of a good tale because they both went against conventional wisdom.

Playing the west wind and a rising sun on all three stands, the first one had a hard charger across almost 500 yards of a wide open wheat field. At 100, he checked up, and died.

The second one back doored me. In fact, he came from within a matter of 100 yards from my pickup parked behind me over the hill. I'd been calling about twenty minutes, had seen nothing and was wrapping things up by glassing the edge cover to my right when I heard a distinct "click" sound, almost plastic-like. I lowered the binos and there, in front of me, was a coyote, twenty yards away, with my M-1 in its mouth. No shit. I'd hidden it in a small 12-inch wide by about 8-inch tall cedar bush and he grabbed it on the fly by, quickly realized it wasn't what he thought it was and beat feet the hell outta there. He died.

At the next place, I parked the truck and walked in to the west over a small roll of a hill and laid in a fenceline with not much more than very little cover to hide in. I placed the M-1, teeth marks, slobber and all, out in the field about twenty yards north of me, and went back to the fenceline and laid on my left side facing west. About ten minutes in, I catch movement out of the corner of my right eye and turn my head to see this big, dark colored coyote simply walking right to left toward the caller, having back doored me as well. No big hurry. Just looking right at me, seemingly unconcerned.

Way too close for the 22-250, and the shotgun is lying on the truck seat, so I just look back at him and wait to see what happens. I figure the only cover within 300 yards of him that he can use to cover his escape is right behind me, so what the hell. He's dead, and doesn't know it yet. (Tee hee)

He walks up to the caller, takes on more look at me, then reaches out with his right front leg and taps the caller twice with his paw. The second one must have convinced him that things weren't as they appeared to be because he no sooner touched it, and the caller tipped over, when he spun around and ran like hell.

He must have been to this dance before because I sat up, repositioned the rifle and sticks and found him in the scope. As he ran like hell, he zigged and zagged left and right never going much more than about four steps in either direction before turning.

Took me two shots to connect, and a third to dump him for good at about 200 yards, but he died, too. Three great stands, any of which would have made great video. BTW, I didn't fist pump, leg hump, or even yell yahoo!. Just got up, shook my legs awake and coldly and callously retrieved the coyotes. They had it coming.

Half moon, directly south, midway across the morning sky. Might be something significant about that.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2009, 11:24 AM:
 
Yep, case closed.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2009, 01:31 PM:
 
Don't be sarcastic, Leonard. The skies were clear. You could hear a pin drop. I didn't hear the "WHUP-WHUP-WHUP" of black helicopter blades at all.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 17, 2009, 02:17 PM:
 
Cdog911:The last two were worthy of a good tale because they both went against conventional wisdom.

In what way?
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 17, 2009, 03:58 PM:
 
Leonard: "Let me use your example, in another thread where you had an extended dryspell on the St Francis hunt. Do you have an explanation or a guess as to why you couldn't call a coyote at that time?"

Yeh I do, a 22 mph wind.

I'm just saying, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, which could not be quantified, the take at St. Francis was high during a full moon.

I don't know whether a full moon affects coyotes that much or not. I know this much, coyotes usually don't have any trouble finding food. Their diets are diverse enough that they are not dependent on whether or not a certain prey species is active or not. If they can't catch mice because the mice aren't moving due to a full moon, they'll eat prickly pear cactus fruits or find a dead carcass. Alternative food sources are seldom a problem.

In order to determine the affect of the moon on coyote activity, you'd have to isolate all the other variables that affect coyote behavior which is virtually impossible.

Assuming that all other factors were relatively equal, the coyote harvest at St. Francis does not seem to support the theory that full moons negatively impact coyote harvest.

I shouldn't have delved into this thread other than to suggest that a lot more research would need to be conducted before reaching any relevant conclusions. I like dealing in facts and observations, not theories. Anybody can sound like an expert when their opinion cannot easily be refuted.

~SH~

[ January 17, 2009, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2009, 04:16 PM:
 
Chad,

Both those coyotes came right past my truck to get to me. By this time of the year, in these parts, trucks mean bad, bad news to coyotes. With the truck behind me, the back door is the last place I feel the need to be watching, but lo and behold. Surprise! LOL

Oh well, keeps it interesting.

The last two days I've been out calling, I've been invaded by dog wagons. Truck tracks everywhere around here. In fact, one wagon was trying to get a race on a pair I bumped from a dead pile as the winds were reaching gale force this morning.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 17, 2009, 05:29 PM:
 
Lance,

I know what ya mean.Lately Road riders everywhere here too.Coyotes have been pretty wise here too.Plus the snow is Deep,and crusted,It's hard enough to walk into the good areas let alone drive into them.lol

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2009, 07:40 PM:
 

quote:

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The results of the recent Midwest coyote calling event, during a full moon, would suggest that moon phase is irrelevant to success.
SH

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quote:

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I shouldn't have delved into this thread other than to suggest that a lot more research would need to be conducted before reaching any relevant conclusions. I like dealing in facts and observations, not theories. Anybody can sound like an expert when their opinion cannot easily be refuted.

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See, that is all we mere mortals have to go by. Everybody wants ironclad rock solid evidence, but shit! we can't even agree on "GLOBAL WARMING" or in it's present modified reincarnation; "CLIMATE CHANGE". Seems that all of our hotshot computer models can't account for all the variables, but that doesn't stop our fearless and brilliant scientific minds from breathlessly telling us that we have so little time to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

It's like this, Amigo. You know about your tells ? Well, you have to play your hunches, there is no guarantee that the little twitch you saw when that guy raised you meant that he was bluffing, but you need to either shit or get off the pot.

I am perfectly happy in my belief that (all things being equal) daylights during a full moon are slightly better than the other phases. A man needs to believe in something and I believe I'll have a beer.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2009, 08:07 PM:
 
Chad,

I guess our problem with the wagons is due, in large part, to the dry weather. No rain or snow means no mud which translates into easy access for 4X4's. I'd love to have a good four inches of snow on the ground to set me up for some nighttime calling.

You can keep the crunchy snow.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on January 18, 2009, 06:08 AM:
 
Where I live ,when we have snow cover under a bright moon , the amount of tracks laid down on one of those nights is many times greater than a moonless night.Movment the next day is usually very slow.Picking up a track from a moonlit night can turn into many miles of tracking before it starts to freshen as you get closer to the track's owner. Looking at these tracks,lots of the coyotes social activities seem to be fulfilled in the bright night and they tend to be bedded up pretty tight already early in the morning.Wildlife Services of USDA I am acqauinted with also say aerial gunning following full moons tends to be less productive.But aa usual,occasionally there are expceptions.
 

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Posted by RedRabbit (Member # 796) on January 28, 2009, 09:41 PM:
 
I've pondered the question sometime ago, didn't get much feedback, but I feel that those critters are more sensitive to cosmic influences earth included especially how they are more dependent on it in the sense that their bodies are adapted to it. They sense earth quakes and volcanic activity before our physical bodies do so why cant they sense gravitational influences...OK

I'll go back to cdogs big asteroid gravitational theory minus the asteroid, but instead say for a test record when the sun, earth and moon are in there greatest alinement's for the optimum gravitational pull then do some calling and compare the result to their least alinement's.

Now don't all rush for that ocean front property in Arizona...
 

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