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Author
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Topic: Calling ?
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jwelk
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2051
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posted January 07, 2009 07:03 PM
Does a full moon effect daytime calling? I have had some real good days with a full moon and some not so good days as well.Thanks J.W.
Posts: 51 | From: oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 07, 2009 07:20 PM
That's a very good question! It's a good question because nobody can give you a definitive answerbased on only full moon conditions.
So, what we have left is opinion. I (kind of) think that a full mooon can be better than other phases. I have absolutely nothing to support my opinion. A full moon won't make or break a hunt, but it cannot hurt, when other conditions are right.
It would be interesting to hear what others think.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 07, 2009 08:17 PM
Opinions on the moon phases are like elbows; everybody's entitled to a couple of them.
One group claims that coyotes feed all night under a full moon and calling that day will be poor.
Another group will claim that coyotes will move further from their core areas under a full moon and spend longer in the first hours of daylight returning. Calling should be good.
Trappers tend to like no moon as the best time to fill traps. Go figure.
Personally; I would be more interested in what effect local conditions are having on the prey species.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 07, 2009 09:07 PM
I like the new moon the best, but then Kokopelli has already explained why.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted January 08, 2009 06:32 AM
My own personal experience is that daytime calling sucks on a full moon. I don't have a good reason why. I'm going with Behle on this one. New moon to half or so seems to be the best calling days.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted January 08, 2009 06:56 AM
I prefer darkness over brightness when night hunting and I believe coyotes do too. Probably for the same reasons. This isn't an indicator of moon phases so much as an indicator of light levels. (Clouds/Ambient Light/Ect)
That being said, I've found lunar charts to be reasonably effective at patterning coyote movements only in the darker (waxing/waning) phases. When the moon is full and the sun is high- I think you need some heavy clouds or dense cover to make a coyote comfortable enough to kill.
I think statistically its tougher calling in full moon conditions: but other variables and techniques can help override the disadvantage. It may change WHERE or HOW I hunt, but it doesn't keep me from calling.
I'm hoping for some cloud cover this weekend!
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 08, 2009 07:04 AM
This season in November. The day after the full moon, my partner and I hunted all day and killed six. The first coyote didn’t show up till around 9:30
In December on the day of the full moon, I got to hunt till noon. Called four and killed three. I had a coyote show up on the first stand and killed two at 11;30
I hunt when I can, but I had rather day hunt under a full moon than fight 20-30 MPH winds any day.
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted January 08, 2009 03:20 PM
My shoot from the hip gut reaction is that all kinds of daylight hunting is worse during times of a full moon, then I read Kelly's response and that forces me to qualify that a bit.
I think early morning hunting is not as good after a night of full moon/good visibility when compared to morning hunt after a night of poor visibility.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 10, 2009 02:48 PM
I'm of the school of thought that my best days after a full moon have been unproductive until mid-morning, say, around 10:00 or so. By then, I figure, they're getting hungry and wanting to move around a bit. With this in mind, tomorrow morning before sunrise, we'll be advancing on a large dead pile near a large swine operation to set up an ambush. We hunted that area Thursday and spotted a group of seven that gave us the slip. Hunting the rangeland in the area, we found that every trail within three miles had black coyote poop laden with pig hair. Maybe we'll get lucky.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2009 02:55 PM
Lance, he asked about daytime CALLING, not ambush over deadpiles. Good luck with those uncircumsized pork eating coyotes.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted January 10, 2009 03:17 PM
I'm not sure what the moon phase was back on Dec.12-18 But i had good luck calling then. On my last trip the calling was good the 2nd and 3rd day and then tapered off some, the dates where Jan.2-8.
I never plan my hunts on the moon phases, I just watch the weather for a open window of no wind or very little and go hunting..
At home the only difference i see in coyote movement is just after a big storm. The coyotes seem to feed in heavey cover the day of a storm and the day after, after that movement is back to normal and the hunt is on..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5614 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted January 10, 2009 03:52 PM
The only correlation I have made with the moon phase and my success rate has been at night. The dark half is the better half. For daytime calling I can’t say that I have noticed a difference.
Some days are just better than other days. Sometimes for logical reasons like the passing of a weather front or on the eve of one. Other times it is just good for no particular reason. It can be bad for no real reason too.
Some things I have noticed that are indicators of a good day are by watching my dogs. When they are just restless and noisy in the mornings I know it is going to be a good day. Also when I see a lot of deer activity or they are out later in the mornings than usual it is a good sign.
I just hunt when I can and try not to get caught up in all the celestial signs or any other reasoning factor. If you go into a hunt thinking it will be bad because of the wrong moon phase or the wrong weather it probably will be bad. It is just a distraction I do not need so I go hunt and let the chips fall where they may.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted January 10, 2009 04:10 PM
The only effect i ever had was that the dark moons are Carhart nights and full moons are camo nights,
I am not bothered by the moon hunting ,,fishing i play the moon,When i am hunting a like hunting fronts, before and after, i have found that in my area i hunt that the day before a front rolls in and the day after it rolls out are my best times to be out.
The 2nd and 3rd day after a big front has rolled out are usually the worst days for calling for me,,
Also humility and wind current plays a roll in my success,,,
really cold ,cold ,cold, nights with a front moving in you can go wrong ether with a full moon or no moon
[ January 10, 2009, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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newbomb
Knows what it's all about
Member # 888
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posted January 10, 2009 04:38 PM
George carhart is making camo clothing again. Tough to beat that stuff.
Posts: 66 | From: southern indiana | Registered: Jul 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 10, 2009 07:03 PM
Leonard,
The point was that I haven't had a lot of luck the morning after a full moon, so I look for an alternative strategy which, in this case, is an ambush. It may or may not work, but it still gives me an effective strategy to work with come sunrise.
As far as them being uncircumcised, I can't say that I've ever looked them over that close. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) did find a new dead pile this noon, complete with a large heifer, all bloated and 'bout half frozen. The coyotes hadn't found her yet, but it's only a matter of time since the area is covered with bones from carcasses of the past few years. To help them out, I blew a couple holes in her belly with the shotgun to ventilate her a bit. Had to do it from downwind. Yowzers! Kinda like jumpin' that pig pile in the morning, it'll either work,... or it won't.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2009 07:48 PM
The moon, all by itself is real hard to decipher as it relates to hunting predators in general and coyotes, specifically.
I feel that coyotes run at night during full moons and new moons, but the deal seems to be that they are a lot more spooky under a full moon. I agree with that, but also know that it is a visibility issue, as much as anything. I don't know if they hunt less under a new moon, but they are more easily called so the success ratio is usually better when there is no moon. That also applies to when the moon has not risen and after it sets, even if it may be the first or third quarter. When the moon is down, either they run better, or those that are running just seem more cooperative?
I always like to mention that cold high pressure conditions under a new moon should be your best bet.
Now, the question at the moment is day hunting during a full moon. As I said above, I can't prove any of it, but I feel it is a little better and I will float one theory I have heard.
Coyotes, being spooky as hell at night during a full moon, and maybe not hunting all that ambitiously(?) are much more comfortable, (and correspondingly) hungrier, hunting during the day, or, at least; responding to a distress or howl during daylight hours following a bright moonlit night.
I can't say it is graven in stone someplace, and there are so many extenuating circumstances that the true answer is ellusive. All things being equal, weather, barometric pressure, the planets in alignment, progress of the season, all that shit, I think my personal experience favors day hunting during a full moon. Been wrong before.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted January 12, 2009 06:58 AM
A little update on my personal experience of Day/Night calling under a full moon.
Friday night we had clear skies and 20mph winds. I could see a farmdog at 300 yards in my NightForce without any lighting assistance. Due to the winds we postponed our hunt to begin at 3am... in hopes some cloud cover would roll in and winds would lay down. There was a "chance" of rain beginning after daylight (8am) and lasting until noon.
My first stand was on a farm that holds very low numbers of coyotes this year. Calling a coyote here requires catching a coyote on it- and this wasn't my day. The second stand produced a pair of coyotes quickly, I killed the first at 30 yards and the second made a quick escape. The third stand, 5:15am, was going very nicely when I found myself drenched in this premature "chance of rain". Over 1/2 mile from the truck in a chisel plowed field... lightening blinding me and mud weighing me down. Further examination found 90% of my clothing soaked by this 20% chance of rain.
The rain was shortlived, but clouds hung in all day. By 3pm I was done napping and fleshing so I started calling again. The first stand was heavily wooded and holds low percentages on coyotes. Nothing. The second stand is a piece of property I'm using to study calling pressure on coyotes... I believe it’s been called 9 times in 3 months and produces visuals or vocals on coyotes over 80% of the time. I intended to kill a coyote here, for the first time of the season, but none showed. There have been 5 coyotes here since I started working them in late September. Our approach to this stand was very good on Saturday evening- we called for over an hour. I had all the confidence in the world that this stand would work. When it didn't, I felt like we were wasting our time in the daylight.
Our first nighttime stand was surrounded by ambient light, roads, houses and cattle- but produced a pair of red foxes. I killed them both, this double on red fox was a first for me. The next 9 hours were spent running stands on 9 more properties that haven’t produced kills in 2007 or 2008. This is a stretch of country we usually bypass if we’re looking for fur- so what better place to prove or disprove a theory?
The tally from those 10 night stands.
These were great results for the tight cover, hilly terrain and low densities I was hunting. These weren’t “Cream of the Crop” stands or virgin ears… this was a fair test for my records of full moon calling. The cloud cover was mediocre, allowing good visibility with the naked eye, and shots beyond 125 yards thru a good scope. The coyotes appeared less concerned with wind direction than normal. 2 of the coyotes were old battle-scarred males approaching 45/50 pounds. Only 2 coyotes were spotted and not killed in this hunt. They scattered when their partner was killed between them.
Here are the moon phase diagrams from November & December of 2008.
I’ve taken over 50 predators at night since 10/15… and all indications are that DARK nights are still best. However, 11/13 – 12/15 and 1/10 have solidified some of my tactics for calling coyotes under big moons. Daytime calling, which I’m more experience and comfortable with, has proven most successful under low light days following low light nights. The “timeframe” of callups on those days seems to relate more to the terrain I’m calling than the position of the moon. I’m often waking up coyotes in these hardwoods- and that’s usually more successful in mid-day hours.
I think it’s easy to skew the results of this research by hunting your own belief system. If you’re confident on cloudy days- you’ll crank out more stands and therefore have better results. I try to hunt every stand with the enthusiasm and drive I put into any other… but it’s hard! I think it’s also important not to let 1 or 2 stands here and there develop a pattern (good or bad) in your mind… there are few scenarios where a coyote CANNOT be called. If any. Also, the variation in our locations, techniques, equipment and experiences will certainly make our opinions on the same topic waiver. As long as you have plenty of land access, I say “Make stands and think of an excuse later!”
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted January 12, 2009 07:30 AM
"The cloud cover was mediocre, allowing good visibility with the naked eye, and shots beyond 125 yards thru a good scope."
Are you night hunting under a full moon with no spotlight and no snow cover? I'm asking because I have tried it here for grins and couldn't see a darn thing with the naked eye. Yea, I could see, but I couldn't see good enough to stay out there. I felt like I was wasting my time.
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 12, 2009 07:30 AM
This Full moon weekend all daytime stands. High winds and clear skies.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted January 12, 2009 07:40 AM
Thanks for the moon phase diagrams Jason. I can see that on my first hunting trip that i was hunting dureing a almost and full moon. ( Dec 12-18 )
On my second trip i hunted dureing the beginning of a new moon up to almost full(Jan. 2-9 )
On first trip i called or saw coyotes most everyday Vrs. second trip where i was seeing very few. On my first trip i was calling in -15 temps Vrs. 5-28 degree temps. For wind direction it was always changeing from day to day, N-W, east, S-E. and S-W. I did notice some of my better days was when wind was out of the N-W or straight out of the East..
I also noticed on second trip i had tobe calling closer to the coyotes Vrs. first trip where they where seen comeing in from a long ways.
I don't know if any of this info is helpfull or even makes a difference...
At the present time here at home the coyotes have been holding very tite and are not traveling to far from heavey cover..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted January 12, 2009 07:55 AM
Joel, I use a variety of LightForce lights and lenses and Nightforce scopes depending on the conditions. I also use NightVision scopes in different applications.
Calling by ambient light as you described is not productive for me either. I use a light source at all times... usually on a rheostat. I've killed one nighttime coyote in 10 years without a light source.
Our "night vision" is decieving... seeing a clump of trees at 300 does not constitute catching a coyote slipping in at 75. My experience in night hunting without the reflection of eyes is miserable, with any equipment, in any conditions. The only guys I know doing it well- have consistant snow levels of 2-4 feet all winter long.
Kelly, looks like you had a great weekend! I know you saved those honey holes for the contest... and I hope it served you well. How did you place?
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted January 12, 2009 08:34 AM
Okay, thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant you were having success with the moon only (and no snow). Some day, before I'm dead, it is going to snow here enough to cover the ground, with a full moon. Boy howdy, the stars will have been aligned for THAT to have happen. LOL But I've always wanted to try it. Maybe someday.
Posts: 145 | From: texas | Registered: Aug 2004
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 12, 2009 08:37 AM
Jason,
They had 75 teams and paid 4 monies.
It was a one day contest. When we left check in, we were in a 3 or 4 way tie for 5th. We only had four coyotes on Saturday.
Hunted my partner’s places.
My area does not work well for contest hunting. Too scattered.
Got up Sunday morning and we made 4 stands and picked up two more coyotes, before I headed to the house.
When I got home the wind had slicked off and I couldn’t stand it, so made two stands right at dark. Just killed the one.
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted January 12, 2009 08:57 AM
Hell Joel, a man in your position (MIDLAND TX) should not have to WANT for anything in the predator world. I'd gladly trade you a couple full moon nights over snowcover for a dark night in your calling rack! LOL!
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 12, 2009 09:17 AM
All interesting stuff, but tell you what. Can't draw conclusions based on this weekend, last month, or whatever parameters seem the most influential. It's very complicated, especially if the documentation involves only moon phase, with perhaps some weather conditions. Another thing I am not quite convinced is the blending circumstance, transition between night hunting and day stands; is there a continuation because of "other" considerations?
If your truck stoped running because you ran out of gas last month, is that the only reason why it won't start this morning? One thing for sure, when we have some degree of success, we tend to see reasons for it. When it's a bust, where do you start?
I'm still confident that hunting at night with a new moon is about the best you can hope for. After that, there are other considerations, favorable and unfavorable.
Day stands? It's still murky. You might as well compare the last week of December with the first week of January. It is a different thing if the coyotes are actively hunting versus bedded down. Now, exactly why are they bedded down, and actively hunting a few days later? That's why it starts to get complicated.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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