This is topic Coyote hunter college in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001075

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 04, 2008, 05:30 PM:
 
Predator Calling School

Predator Calling School Price




Individual Price $1,000 3 Days & Nights
Children 13 to 16 50% Discount (1 per paying adult)

I see that TT is offering a school for coyote hunters.
Twice the price of Scott H. and half the knowledge..
Here is a link--www.PredatorUniversity.com

[ June 05, 2008, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 04, 2008, 06:00 PM:
 
I's say it's high time somebody was offering this kind of service as there are many Internet Experts out there, (like Byron) that could use a little practical experience.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on June 05, 2008, 06:12 AM:
 
I pulled this off his website!

http://pbskids.org/teletubbies/teletubbyland.html

I thinking about the rabbit hunt.
http://pbskids.org/teletubbies/rabbits.html

[ June 05, 2008, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2008, 08:11 AM:
 
Yes, I tried the rabbits, got them all right, first try!

Who is Tony Tebbe, never heard of him? Must be kinda new?

edit: I can't stand it anymore! I have to correct a little spelling error, Tim. Sorry, I'm really not anal about spelling, but ....ya know?

[ June 05, 2008, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 05, 2008, 08:43 AM:
 
Me, too. Does that mean we're eligible for pass-fail so we can just move right on to Tony's Master's program? The site says that the program covers the basics, which to me means it's just a bunch of B.S..

Whatcha gonna do your thesis on, Leonard?
 

---

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on June 05, 2008, 09:40 AM:
 
At a risk of alienation from some here, I am gonna put in my thoughts. I have met Tony on a few occassions and he is a pretty cool guy. He has his friends and foes in the great world of the internet just as anyone does who has put himself in the light and is trying to promote his name and life based on his predator hunting experiences. I personally can not imagine quitting my job and moving to an unknown area, to pursue a personnal ambition of doing something that has never been done. I have to say that takes some major cahonies. His wife and children will have to endure the ups and downs with him. He is walking into a biker bar wearing a three peice suit.

I don't think he expects to have the accomplished predator hunters here to need his services. He is hoping to help those guys that are getting into predator hunting and those that need the instructions and on stand experiences. Maybe those that have never called in a coyote or have only called in 1 or 2 can benefit from some of the things he has to offer. Maybe not. His success or failure in his venture will determine that.

Who was Scott Huber, Cal Taylor, Rich Higgens, Jeff and Todd, Johnny Stewart, Murray Burnham, Borlands, Dillons ETC before they stepped up to the plate and decided to make money from something they and their close friends thought they would be good at. I can bet my last dollar not a one of them expected to make money from one of their detractors or the successfull hunters. They only hoped to make money from those that were in need of what they had to offer. Anything else would just be gravy.

Greenside, I have no idea what that link has to do with this.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2008, 10:22 AM:
 
Don't worry about alienating anybody here, Randy. If anybody asks, I will tell them that you are a standup guy and deserve credit for supporting a friend. I think these guys are probably just having a little fun? As you know, many of the people you mentioned have had their turn in the barrel, it's kind of a right of passage. How they handle it is noticed and respected. Whoever Tony may be, I'm sure we all wish him to succeed.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Nahuatl (Member # 708) on June 05, 2008, 10:25 AM:
 
I wish the guy the best of luck at his new endevour, Randy. We sort of do the same thing, predator hunt tactics, for novices no charge in the AZ and CA predator clubs. It looks like fair value for shaving a couple years off the learning curve.

Did you read the story about Tony falling through the ice and almost drowning? The epiphany gets the guy to sell his house, uproot his wife and kids, move to west Texas (??), to chase his dream. Or at least find a place with no ice.

Higgins gives it away.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2008, 10:35 AM:
 
....as does Bosinski, for that matter?

edit: and the above pat on the back is unneeded but upon reflection, I have two things to say. One is that occasionally we act like a bunch of sophomores and sometimes it's inappropriate; and second, I am fortunate to have Randy Reeves as a friend. I don't normally edit posts, but we can retract some of the above catty comments, if it will help?

Good hunting. LB

[ June 05, 2008, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by skoal (Member # 1492) on June 05, 2008, 10:41 AM:
 
I have some of Tonys calls , hand crafted art that should not see the field beautiful and they work well . I dont know him other than dealing with him on his calls and his many posts on PM
seems like a great guy and I wish him success in his endeavors. I agree with Randy its a big leap to uproot yourself and start something all new.

and your right Gary , Higgins gives it away, hes a great ambassador to the sport.Most of the People Ive met readily share info. as it should be.
 

---

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on June 05, 2008, 11:03 AM:
 
Hell Randy, more power to him. The link is nothing more than a chuckle at Tonie’s expense. A little spin off of his TT initials. You would have had to be there to understand.

Gary, I more than likely fell into the same canal or one close by, 20 or more years ago while duck hunting. I quit duck hunting but didn’t quit my day job.
Dennis
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 05, 2008, 11:10 AM:
 
Most beginners can barely afford a rifle ( H&R single shots) let alone 1000.00 lessons..
Now that there willbe a coyote calling college i suppose we will have pay to hunt next ?????

[ June 05, 2008, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 05, 2008, 11:16 AM:
 
$1,000 for three days. That's $333.33 per day.

So Huber pumped you full of knowledge for $166.66 a day Tim? He's gonna need a bigger truck.

PS: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

[ June 05, 2008, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
 

---

Posted by skoal (Member # 1492) on June 05, 2008, 11:17 AM:
 
I already pay to hunt Tim this sport has cost me a small fortune. lol
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 05, 2008, 11:56 AM:
 
Jason: A lot more canbe learned from someone who hunts coyotes year round than by someone who don't have enough sense to stay off of bad ice...
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 05, 2008, 12:32 PM:
 
"PS: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."

That's why some many of them are broke.
 

---

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on June 05, 2008, 01:43 PM:
 
Most of the people mentioned sell a product. You can decide to buy a Faux Pro or not. Makes no difference to me. But when you set-up a business which requires leasing of ground to hunt coyotes, then that affects me. I paid a tresspass fee once and enjoyed every minute of it, but I will never do it again.

We saw more swinging lights this past year than the other two combined. With 100 dollar cats and 35 dollar greys, that is understandable. Then throw some university students into the equation and you have lots of competion for ground.

I aint jealous of the man or what he is trying to do. I just dont want to see coyote hunting headed in the same direction as deer hunting. Go to Tx right now and see how much good deer ground you can gather. Unless you are willing to blow the dust off your check book, you arent going to find much.

As far as I am concerned, this P.U. only benefits one person. It hurts everyone else, especially if you are a Texan or a fur hunter.

Randy
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 05, 2008, 01:56 PM:
 
Shaw,

I think that's about as succinct an explanation of what's wrong with some of this stuff as I've ever heard. A few years ago, this guy I work with who guides for deer and leases up all kinds of ground and I got into a heated "discussion" over his value to society. He quickly pointed to the door signs on my truck advertising my taxidermy business and stated that he wasn't the only person making money off wildlife in this town.

Maybe so, I replied, but nothing I do has ever intruded on the rights of anyone else to hunt. Same goes for my writing. Sure, I get paid for it, but no one's losing hunting ground because of it. Fact is, between the writing and the taxidermy, I offer services that augment and enhance the sportsman's experience.

You made a good point. And BTW, I know Tony, too, and he is a good man. Like Shaw, I just hate seeing the sport devolve into this form of commercialism. Just my opinion, FWIW. Then again if there's a market, more power to him.

TA,

I respect Tony's prowess as a predator hunter, but I respect Scott's more. If this whole deal tells me anything, it's that Scott needs to reassess his rates.

[ June 05, 2008, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

---

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 05, 2008, 03:04 PM:
 
Does this mean we can't refer to Higgins as 'Professor' now?

Well put Shaw!
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on June 05, 2008, 03:14 PM:
 
The last I knew of, Scott Huber don't make his living by teaching people how to call. He likely don't offer his knowledge to just anybody or everybody either. Scott knows his stuff when it comes to coyotes, and that is for certain.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2008, 03:21 PM:
 
Well, I see the makings of a good thread, if we can omit the personal references? In fact, what Shaw says is exactly what has ALWAYS been my problem with Texas. Of course, I am blessed with a lot of public land on which to hunt, but I sure don't like feeling like a "dude" to hunt down there. A lot of other places, you can knock on doors and some grant access and some don't. In Texas, the tables are turned. Instead of providing a service for the land owner, he wants a fee, like he has trophy whittails or something? I dunno, the whole idea just offends me?

Good hunting. LB

TA, that was a real cheap shot, Amigo.
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 05, 2008, 03:36 PM:
 
I don't know Mr. Tebbe, but he sure seems like a good man, just from what I see on the internet and the way others who I do know speak of him. So, I wish him nothing but success with his venture.

But, while I sincerely wish him well, I have a hard time seeing how this venture is going to make full time wages for one guy, let alone two guys. Hopefully I'm just wrong.

As far as the whole Texas and pay to hunt thing goes... I'm just glad I've never had to ask permission to hunt in my life, and don't ever intend to start. If I lived somewhere like that, where I literally had to go door to door, begging from strangers, just to hunt, I would not hunt. If those ranchers start charging access fees to hunt coyotes, I could care less, it won't change things for me one bit.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 05, 2008, 04:34 PM:
 
If Tony can make a go of it, good for him. I guess if the same thing was happening in my backyard I might be a little bummed, but from what I hear about Texas, if it wasn't him doing it, somebody else would. Take a look around at all the people who complain about their jobs, where they live, life situations, etc.. that if a guy takes the initiative to make a change, I'll wish them the best of luck.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future quality predator hunting will be valued as much as good big game hunting. That being said, I've never paid to hunt private land and hope like hell I never have to. It was only a matter of time before paying for quality predator hunting on private land starts to catch up with the rest of the hunting economy.
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 05, 2008, 04:56 PM:
 
Iowa wasn't cuttin the mustard?

I know that no one is forcing me to pay $1,000 to hunt with him, but still, $1,000!? Good luck!

Is there such a thing as a learning curve in Texas? Oh, well.
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 05, 2008, 06:30 PM:
 
I don't know TT or anything about him, but I can't say it's a bad idea for some guys. I don't know his personal qualifications, but there is nothing wrong with paying someone to help a little along the way if you think the knowledge gained is worth the price. I have been to a well known trapping guru for trapping instruction and there are a few guys that I would still consider paying to hunt or trap with. A lion hunt with Steve Craig is a prime example. If I had the time I would do it in a heartbeat.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 05, 2008, 06:51 PM:
 
I wouldn't have paid...

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on June 05, 2008, 08:17 PM:
 
Krusty, you paid. I bet more then a G. your just looking at it wrong.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 05, 2008, 10:38 PM:
 
Clint,

I'm looking at it, just fine.

Neither Scott, nor Tony knows what it takes to hunt here... and there's no way in the world anyone could teach it in a week.

What I "spent", I invested in myself, not in someone else. And I'm a better man for it.

You can't buy that.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on June 05, 2008, 10:52 PM:
 
Krusty,
you did pay and you are a better man for it.

[ June 05, 2008, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Clint ]
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 06, 2008, 06:30 AM:
 
Along the same lines I have been to Jake Barnes for a team roping school and Tom Miller for a Bronc riding school years ago. Both shortened the learning time and helped alot (although not with my coyote hunting).

Krusty, I understand you not wanting to spend the money and be a self made man. But don't think for a minute that you are. None of us are. We have all picked up information from other sources. mentors, friends, books, magazines, the internet etc..
Saying that spending time with someone like Scott H. wouldn't do any good in your country is bullshit. Any knowledge gained about coyotes and their habits would help anywhere.
 

---

Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on June 06, 2008, 06:56 AM:
 
I made the comment that calling is going the way of deer hunting on this site when the KC predator expo, or whatever it is called, was announced.... And was about as popular as a whore in a Baptist church. That would be on the public outcry side, not the private musings.

I don't begrudge anybody making a dollar off the sport, stacks of dollars even, just don't be surprised down the road when you can't swing a dead cat w/o hitting about a dozen guys in ghillie (sp?) suits and snapping the antennae off a like number of electronic calls.

I have this mental image of clouds of dust rising from the Az. desert down around ****** from all of the callers flocking to the area. Never again will one get to call an undisturbed spot.
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 06, 2008, 08:35 AM:
 
If aspiring predator callers are as poor as Tim thinks, and as ethically superior as Shaw says, then Tebbe will go broke rather quickly at any price. If, however, history holds true and folks continue to spend more on a hobby than any necessity in their life- guiding services and similar programs will continue to crop up everywhere. Surely this isn't a new concept?

Again, I don't know TT or his plans... but people intelligent enough to see their ignorance WILL PAY for knowledge. Others will sit back and make claims that nobody could "Do that here" and they'll continue milking the masses for free silver bullets.

The sport is changing. There will be more callers next year than there was last! Because of instructional courses and the various medias available there will be more GOOD callers out of the gate than there were 5 years ago. And this is bad because it affects Shaw's furcheck? Get off the internet and go pour more concrete... don't condemn the growth of a small sector (Calling) in a declining sport (hunting)!?!?!

Someday we're going to need the masses of greenhorns to save our sport: and we'll need events like Rueb's shindig to prove we're a viable opponant to anti's. Condemn it all you want- but someday this growth could be the only reason we're left with any rights.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 06, 2008, 09:52 AM:
 
Clint,

I think there's a big difference between paying someone else, and investing in myself.

A penny saved, is a penny earned...

Cal,

I think you're taking me too literally.

The last thing I'd ever claim to be, is a self made man.
I've got so many people who've helped me, in all aspects of my life, that I can't count them all.

And I didn't say Scott couldn't help at all, but that what I needed (as with most new callers) was way more than he could put in my head in a short period of time.

Just like climbing, calling needs to be "instinctive", and (imo) a three day crash course no more prepares one for predator hunting, than it does to climb a mountain.
No amount of money, can replace (long term) experience.

I'm just not a big believer in "the quick fix" ...of anything, and I am highly doubtful of it in the arena of predator calling.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 06, 2008, 10:10 AM:
 
"There will be more callers next year than there was last!"

I'm not so sure about that.

Over all, counting everyone, everywhere, that may well be true - but even then I have doubts. Disposable income is becoming increasingly scarce for the average blue collar American.

In my area, I believe we saw fewer callers this past season than the previous four or five years. And I am 100% positive that this coming season, we are going to see a steep decline in the number of callers out hunting as compared to even last year - which was a down year already. Maybe rather than saying there will be fewer callers, what I should say is that there will be fewer "caller days". Maybe just as many or perhaps even more guys doing it (but again I actually doubt even that), but each of them on average spending significantly fewer days in the field hunting.

Like I said, I'm sure it is different in other parts of the country. But around here, historically, you have to put some serious miles on your rig to escape the crowds of callers and get into any decent calling - on a consistent basis, at least. To put a real number on that for context, at last years prices, my partner and I spent an average of about $110 a day on fuel to go coyote hunting (we keep close track as it all gets written off of our taxes). That's the downside of hunting only public land - every coyote I kill is a coyote that is available to be hunted by every citizen of this country - free of charge and without needing to ask permission from anyone. So to hear moaning over somebody moving in and maybe making a better offer to the owner of private ground, just makes me laugh - "boo hoo, cry me a river...".

But, anyway... The price of fuel has already in my opinion had the effect of causing a decline in "caller days" and I predict a sharper decline this coming season. Really, I could just be on glue, I guess, but I'm expecting to see the fewest callers out hunting my areas in probably at least the last five years, probably longer.

I know that I have been hearing lots of guys around here already saying that they are going to be getting out less, and not going as far this year, due to gas prices. I believe them. Heck, I know guys who have been complaining about not being able to go shoot prairie dogs, or take their families fishing already this spring/summer, due to fuel costs. It's only going to be worse by this fall and winter.

And... Again, maybe I just picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue, but I think this is a trend that is going to continue for some time - not just the last season and the one upcoming. I really think the "peak" of popularity for calling predators in the areas I hunt has already passed - it happened in 2006-2007. Due to no other reason than the cost of participation has risen dramatically.

Of course, if I'm right, then I guess this goes right along with the theme already touched on in this thread, of our sport becoming more and more of a "rich mans game". Which, can only be bad for us all, long term.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 06, 2008, 11:14 AM:
 
DAA, I think that you are right on track. The number of callers won't decline, but the number of days that they spend out will. It affects me in other areas so I know the crunch. I have some bear baits out in the bighorns, and that 80 bucks or so to top off the fuel tank to go check them limits the times I will go. I didn't go last weekend, but will tommorrow and if they haven't been hit they are coming out. I can't keep running a hundred miles one way to check them. We cancelled a trip to Idaho also, just because the fuel costs are so ridiculous. As for the effect of more callers overall in the country, I look at it like deer hunting, there will be more callers in the easily accessable areas, but the far away and hard to get to stuff will always be good. People in general are fat and lazy and if it doesn't come easy they soon take up another hobby. If you are willing to travel further and work harder, there will always be some good calling somewhere.

K, sorry I misunderstood your post. I just have proven to myself in several areas that education from those that know, helps. Whether or not the personal value is worth the dollars spent will change with each individual. I'm not going to go to TT either, because I don't know him or if it would be worth my $$, but if it were someone I thought could increase my calling ability immensely, I would save the money and go in a heartbeat.
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 06, 2008, 11:40 AM:
 
That's an interesting take on the future of the sport, with fuel prices and all, and it may very well make an impact this fall. I think travel is a fundamental key most callers miss around here: they hunt 8 farms in a 20 mile radius and wonder why they can't stay succesful October-March.

Perhaps a tangent, but I also have to wonder about the rational of "High Gas Prices". I don't like throwing money away- but if my memory serves me correctly I was paying about $3.09-$3.19 last winter. Now I'm paying $3.89-$3.99.

So basically- I've seen an increase in my daily operation expense to the tune of about .04 cents per mile on my Ford. On a long weekend of hunting HARD I'll see a fuel run costs me about $12 more than it did last season.

Honestly, I don't know another caller in my area that covers as much ground as I do... so the average guy [here] will probably see a price CHANGE of $4-8 on a weekends hunt. I agree it will keep more people home and every extra nickel hurts... but I can't help but think its silly. Maybe that logic will keep the Democrats home on election day?
 

---

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on June 06, 2008, 11:49 AM:
 
I have paid for trapping and calling instruction in the past and more than likely will do it again. It was money well spent and I dont have a problem with that part of it.

When I see people wanting the numbers of callers or trappers to grow it tells me those people have something to sell. And when their zeal to sell,sell, sell, affects my fur check you damn right it pisses me off. Larger numbers helps fight the antis? Probablly take a hundred to counter one picture of a pup coyote with its guts hanging out.

I have lived here all my life and I know most of the landowners in this county and many in the surrounding counties. If I was a deer hunter, which I am not, there would be practically no ground to hunt on.That is unless I was willing to pay and I will not do that in order to hunt or trap.

I agree with Dave, the numbers of callers will either stay steady or see a slight decrease. Unlike deer hunting, there is no glory in predator calling.

Saying trapping and calling a sport is just like calling a coyote a yote. Makes my skin crawl.

Randy
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 06, 2008, 12:35 PM:
 
As far as I'm concerned, fuel costs have affected me for a long time. I used to think nothing of driving up to northeastern Nevada, but have had two things working against me. First, the distance would mean less stands and fewer coyotes, but mainly; as I have been complaining for several years, the number of Utah hunters has increased dramatically. Well, I can't say, because I gave them that half of the state a long time ago.....I just wish they would stay the hell out of my half?

My visit with Scott was the result of a long standing invitation to the point where I decided, why the hell not? We did a little control work. He killed one, and I killed one; and we did a little touring, but I was not a client. He's a great host and works hard to please his guests, took time off work to spend with me, and I had a great time and enjoyed his company. He does know his country, that's a fact! In every case, he knew where the coyotes were hanging out. A lot more walking involved than needed in my areas, but it was very interesting to see him work out his plan. I wouldn't say he knows every coyote in his district by name, but damned close! I want him to come out for a night hunt in a California Rig. As soon as his coyotes find out, I think they will voluntarily leave for Wyoming!

Bottom line, it's difficult to list the number of ways that we all learn from each other. If you aren't learning, you aren't paying attention.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 06, 2008, 01:22 PM:
 
When I see people wanting the numbers of callers or trappers to grow it tells me those people have something to sell. And when their zeal to sell,sell, sell, affects my fur check you damn right it pisses me off. Larger numbers helps fight the antis? Probablly take a hundred to counter one picture of a pup coyote with its guts hanging out.

That seems awfully pessimistic, even for you Randy!

So you don't want political representation, you don't want groups looking out for our best interest and you don't want more folks getting involved in the organizations that make your local annual conventions and rendezvous happen? You don’t want kids at the skinning demonstrations and aspiring callers lining up at the howling contests?

I've seen you at too many trappers’ conventions to believe that. You and I have discussed too many political and legislative battles for me to believe you're an elitist that wants to close down the SPORT of predator calling. Those elitist are as much a problem for deer hunting as any leasing or commercialization and you know it. Blackpowder versus Shotguns, Crossbows versus Traditional Archery and the loin cloth against a ghillie suit. What unification we have left is all we have, take that to the bank.

I know you’ve paid for instruction Shaw, and the day guys like you start charging $166.66 per day… I’ll start paying myself. On one hand you seem anti-capitalist in that you don’t want guys guiding or training other hunters. Then, on the flipside, it seems self-serving that you’re out to pad your fur check?

As for pictures of gutty pups: I could never condone that but apparently you’re not wearing a lilly white dress yourself. Others here know that I recently copied your photo of a mangy/frozen Missouri coyote from my site and posted it on "HuntingNet"... in a discussion about mange... and the moderators deleted the photo and warned me of posting inhumane pictures that could damage our image as SPORTsmen.

I'll donate $10 to the FTA in your name to cover your atrocities.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 06, 2008, 01:37 PM:
 
I don't have a bit of trouble understanding where Shaw is coming from.
 

---

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on June 06, 2008, 02:20 PM:
 
I pay my annual dues to the FTA,MTA, and VHA. How I am represented rests solely in the hands of these organizations.

Never said anything about the desire to shut-down predator hunting. Just don't like the direction it is headed.

A picture of a hairless coyote dieing due to sub-zero temperatures. Is that the one?

No hair/fur + fifteen below zero = death
They can call it inhumane. I call it a fact of life in nature.

Better make it 20 bucks. You only know of half of the atrocities I have committed. LOL

Randy
 

---

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 06, 2008, 05:13 PM:
 

quote:

---

So basically- I've seen an increase in my daily operation expense to the tune of about .04 cents per mile on my Ford. On a long weekend of hunting HARD I'll see a fuel run costs me about $12 more than it did last season.

---

quote:

---

I fell through the ice once when deer hunting in late Dec. back in 1986..

---

No disrespect to Huber but maybe thats why you didnt learn a dang thing to help you out. You guys that fall through ICE dont have any since. You dang sure got that right so your excused in your case. You had a seven coyote day I will admit better than any of my days but hey, you applied what you learned,,,what about all the other days after your instruction. I think the TT school would help you.

Hey Cal, I went to Ricky Greens school and went from winning some to getting my numbers jacked quick,,,,ropin, what a life.

edit to say i took the cus words out.

[ June 06, 2008, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: stevecriner ]
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 06, 2008, 07:08 PM:
 
"I don't have a bit of trouble understanding where Shaw is coming from."

Me neither. I'm as blatantly selfish about my predator hunting as the next guy. Of course, I do make a buck or two off of it, too. But I think I'd give up the video business in exchange for a lot less guys out there hunting the same ground I do. Really, for us the video stuff is just a side hobby that we enjoy, that also pays for the main hobby. My partner and I have had many a discussion about whether we are crapping in our own nest by doing the videos, though. If we did not actually enjoy the filming so much, we'd have quit doing it long ago.

One morning last winter, we were topping off the gas tank, a couple hours before daylight, more than 100 miles from home, at the last place to get fuel before leaving pavement for the day. A truck with three guys in it pulled up and they were obviously coyote hunters too. And also, to try and put this delicately, obviously greenhorns. You could just tell by the way they were dressed, the lack of weather showing on their faces more than half way through the season, the way they were acting and the way their truck looked. They kept staring at me while I was filling the tank, I was afraid I knew what was coming. I was right... Finally one of them walked over and said "I know you guys, you're Tim and Dave!". To get to the point of this story - driving away from there, Tim and I were not the LEAST bit happy about being recognized, and especially not in that particular place, by guys who were heading out to hunt the same general area we were. I need to say though, they did seem like real nice fellows. But Tim and I had a real serious talk about giving up the video stuff, right then and there...

Which is just a very long winded way of explaining that yes, I have no trouble understanding where Shaw is coming from.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on June 06, 2008, 07:26 PM:
 
Im in the buisness to and dont have trouble figuring out where Shaw is coming from, but we are still buds. Its just the way things are some times.

Oh and TA man I was just pokin so no offense and dont bur my house down,please.
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on June 06, 2008, 08:06 PM:
 
Jake Barnes....Ricky Green.........come on guys....Leo the lion He was the man.

Didn't get to go to his school, but I did buy the VHS.

I hate to think of the dollars that first buckle cost me….

Good times all the same.
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 06, 2008, 08:11 PM:
 
Steve if you can manage to set youre bottle down for a second go to my post "Never gave up"
TT school???? Not much i could learn from TT, but he might be able to help you out some. You mite have to also see Dan Carey for some shooting lessons also.. good day..
 

---

Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on June 06, 2008, 08:25 PM:
 
Yah you got me Tim. I hope what credability I do have dont go down the drain with the bottle of coke I plan on pouring out because of your reply's impact on my social life,lol.. Good day.
 

---

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 06, 2008, 08:41 PM:
 
Dang Kelly, The Camarillo Bros. You are ageing yourself.LOL! Both Barnes and Green are excellent teachers.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 06, 2008, 09:25 PM:
 
Cal,

Predator hunting, unlike trapping, roping, bronc riding, or climbing, isn't as technical, nor is it as concrete.

So many variables, so many gray areas...

In your case, you went for help refining your technique, not developing it from scratch, right?

In the same light, my money would be much better spent on "education", now, because I developed skills that now just need refinement.
I didn't need a running coach, when I couldn't even walk yet.

JRB,

I've got to drive 30 miles, before I can even fire a shotgun, another 10 or 20 miles to gets me to crappy places to call over a rifle.
And it's 93 miles to the first good place to jump off the freeway (where everyone else goes).

My fuel costs jumped by a lot more than $12 a trip... I filled my truck with $4.25/gallon regular yesterday (up $1.57/gallon, here, since this time last year).

I already skipped turkey season, because of fuel costs, and I see it effecting my own upcoming hunting and trapping seasons very negatively.

Lance,

See statement about learning to walk before I get a track coach...

I didn't have enough basic skills (walking quietly, etc.), or "links", to benefit in a way that would equal the costs.

I have that foundation, now, but I don't care about predator hunting enough, anymore, to bother spending the money on the education.

I have hunted with others, who helped my find and assemble the pieces of my own puzzle... and not one of them charged me a dime, for it.
Same goes for all the written advice I've received, and information online... all free.

And, I've gotten some really awesome invitations to hunt with some really awesome callers, all over the Country. ...and I'm an ass.
Someone with a non-abrasive personality should have no problem finding, for free or close to it, what Tony is planning on selling.

Or... if, all you say one needs is a morning with things going his way, connect the dots if you will, wouldn't a guided hunt accomplish the same thing as this "college" does, for a lot lower cost?

Dave,

Fame, beats infamy, by a long shot.

I cringe when I catch my brother telling guys "my brother makes predator calls" and hope they don't figure out who I am.
I never bring it up.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on June 07, 2008, 05:36 AM:
 
Didn't know there was so many old (ex) ropers on here. I will never regret roping but I know I’m sure glad I’m not still trying to go every weekend with today’s diesel prices.
 

---

Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on June 07, 2008, 07:58 AM:
 
Thats why I quit. Gas is higher thabn when i quit so Im glad I made the change early.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 07, 2008, 10:10 AM:
 
Being a city boy, you folks are lucky I know what you are talking about, but, as it happens, I used to frequent the team roping events at Mormon Lake, AZ every Fourth of July. Serious money was being wagered. That's quite a skill, I can't quite believe unknown participated?

Sorry Lord, and be with the pigmies....

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on June 07, 2008, 02:53 PM:
 
I dont think i was a real cowboy because they just dont make many real ones anymore, but i was some type of cowboy up until I was 27. Now Im just a has been.


 

---

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on June 07, 2008, 05:04 PM:
 
You da man Steve! That takes way more nuts than the boys with the pressed wranglers and snowy white Resistol's pack....just can't imagine dodging that much beef.
 

---

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 07, 2008, 06:49 PM:
 
Steve
That pic looks like your just about to take some air complments of the bull ,how far did ya go?
Paul
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 07, 2008, 08:02 PM:
 
Damn Vic, what was wrong with a white hat? I have had lots of them





I still rope a little but am way to old for the other crap.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 08, 2008, 03:45 PM:
 
Is that you on the left. Cal? Looks kinda like you had a mullet. Maybe I'm wrong.

I really admire those roping skills. I bet a great roper makes a great shooter. The two skills seem to me to depend upon the same basic skills of eye-hand coordination.

Not much call for wheat ropers I guess, so I just never learned.

[ June 08, 2008, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 08, 2008, 05:03 PM:
 
Nope, that would be me on the right, with the coolio shades!
 

---

Posted by honestjohn (Member # 2651) on June 08, 2008, 09:33 PM:
 
speaking of old ropers,i had a frend he passed away in 03,he never was world champion,maby not ever in the top 10,but the ones who did hold titles,said he was the fastest man in the world,tying a calf his name was Byron Wolford from Tyler Texas any you old ropers heard of him?
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 09, 2008, 09:58 AM:
 
I have some of Tonys calls , hand crafted art that should not see the field beautiful and they work well .

You can thank THO game calls for that!
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 09, 2008, 02:05 PM:
 
Browning,

I make calls, too, works of art many people feel are too nice to take afield...

Doesn't qualify me to teach coyote college, though.

Making calls, and calling success, are not mutually exclusive, indeed they're hardly related at all.

A call is a simple machine, operating on the principles of physics.
Understanding how a call works, and how to make them, doesn't make one a great caller, by default.
And by the same token, being a great caller doesn't make you understand physics or possess the skills and craftsmanship required to manufacture a good call.

I should give Tony $1000 to teach me, because he (supposedly) makes great calls?
I'm gonna have to call bullshit, on that!

Krusty
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 09, 2008, 02:25 PM:
 
Krusty, The bolded was stolen from another persons post.

I said you can thank THO because TT has a habit of copying stuff. He did it to THO.

In case you didn't understand, of maybe I don't understand you?
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 09, 2008, 02:43 PM:
 
I'm told TT has included room & board in his rates. You guys balking at the price tag need to consider the costs of feeding a guy three meals a day, giving him a clean bed to sleep in and driving him all over gods creation calling coyotes. I cannot imagine that being a profitable arragement for TT: but again best of luck.

Krusty, if you think a "Guide" will teach you as much as an "Instructor" then you've apparently never spent much time in either scenario. There are totally different expectations from the professional and the client in those situations.

As for all the free advice that's landed you one coyote in a coons age: statistically you damn near got what you paid for. Sometimes you get what you pay for, other times you pay for what you get.

I think time with Tebbe, or any remotely succesful caller, would help an aspiring predator caller. Especially one that wants to learn (Thus his motivation to pay).

Browning204 was probably referring to the fact that Al Woodard believes all predator calls on the market today are his gift to the world.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 09, 2008, 02:45 PM:
 
I appreciate the clarification. Although, I assumed what you meant; because I have heard similiar before.

My take on this whole deal is that to hold instruction, or the hunt of a lifetime (for some of us) in a target rich environment is much of the attraction. A novice can learn a lot with perhaps dozens of opportunities that he won't see in places like Pennsylvania. It won't solve his local problems, but it does shorten the learning curve even if he misses a bunch. There's nothing like putting coyotes in front of a newbie, kind of a baptism under fire.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 09, 2008, 03:57 PM:
 
I have always said this and I will say it here. I don't care who you are and what you know if you live in a predator rich location then you will call and shoot coyotes!

These Dudes that THINK they are the cats meow because they can get behind a locked gate in Texas and shoot coyotes, they must be experts. Come on, read the news. There have been lots of coyote attacks on children in play grounds in the middle of the day with lots of people around to watch. If this is happening, you MIGHT have a BIG Coyote problem.

Why is every video shot out west? Why are MOST of the "experts" from out west? Christ, anyone will be an expert if they do something enough times.

I have always said, come to NH, MA, VT, ME and do your magic. You won't have a 4-5 coyote weekend never mind a 4-5 coyote stand. Not that we don't have them, we do but much smaller population and try to trick the well fed, smart 40-50 pound coyotes in this landscape, not the 15-25 pound starving thirsty weiner dogs that are everywhere like NH mosquitos.

So I guess I am saying, if I were to go pay Double T a visit and picked his brain, I doubt very much that would help me much out here.

I will be impressed and might think about calling someone an expert when they can put up #'s consistantly in the North East.

Don't get me wrong, I am not taking anything away from anyone who hunts hard and enjoys the outdoors. Just don't put your name in lights because YOU think your doing something great when in fact alot of guys are doing it and not talking about it.

Heck, even foxpro, an east coast company tests their callers out west!

Sorry for my rant.

Edit to add: To date I have spoke with, visited or hunted with:

Higgins, Cleavenger, Martz, Woodard, Holbrook, Borlands, Marvin, and others, (sorry if I forgot you)

And all being very knowledgeable in what they do, where they do it. Little of it helps in a totally different area from theirs.

Or maybe because "Eastern guys just can't hunt"
as GG likes to put it.

[ June 09, 2008, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: browning204 ]
 

---

Posted by skoal (Member # 1492) on June 09, 2008, 04:07 PM:
 
Thats quite interesting I, have Tebbe calls and THO calls they suit my taste and are on the same style. They both sit on shelves though they sound good they are sumthin to look at.
As far as predator U goes as long as hes not paying for land to hunt and making it hard on others,best of luck.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 09, 2008, 04:35 PM:
 
Well, I have often heard it said that "easterners" are generally poor shots? A coyote the size of a Coues deer buck shouldn't be that hard to hit? Out here, it does take a dash of skillful shooting to run the table on those (edit: and stupid) mini yotes w/my AR.

Okay Lord, forgive me once again, and be with the starving pigmies.

Good hunting. LB

[ June 09, 2008, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 09, 2008, 04:47 PM:
 
haha Leonard. Not meaning to bash anyone. Sorry if you took it that way.

Anyways, check out this thread going before it is gone. Looks like good ole Tony is up to his old copy and false claims tricks again.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52858492&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 09, 2008, 04:59 PM:
 
DOD used to post here and he did pretty well up around N.H. I believe. He posted some pics of beautiful uncoyote looking beasties.
Big George Ackley takes 1 coyote per 300 stands in Pa. and takes hunting trips to Me. to boost his confidence because he does well there.
Tom Bechdel says he takes 150 coyotes a year in Pa. and doesn't have to go elswhere.
Sheri Baity does well in Pa.

Anyone who thinks that we only have 15 -20 Chi-wa-wa-yotees and they are thick as NH mosquitos has OD'd on Bill Martz. Most callers down here are blanking right now and wishing they were calling in a target rich environment like west Texas or N.H.
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 09, 2008, 05:25 PM:
 
Like West Texas or N.H.

Please explain! Do I suck THAT bad?
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 09, 2008, 05:38 PM:
 
I'll agree with most of what Browning204 said in previous post..
Scott did a good job of teaching me to work with S.D. coyotes and gave some good pointers for here at home but i also have to give credit to Randy Roede. Randy used to live a 100 miles south of me in a area very simuler to mine and with coyotes that behaved very simuler as well. With the help of both of these fine teachers i was able to piece it together and get my first home coyote..
I honestly feel if i would of went to someone else from another state for instruction i would still be looking for my first called in coyote at home...
TT says he wants to just teach the basic's to new callers and i think a guy wouldbe better off with one of Gerry's books rather than dishing out the big money..
I got to call with rich H., had a great hunt and learned alot. I was amazed at the number of coyotes we called in that mourning, really spoils a guy.. I applied some of the things i picked up from Rich, but the coyotes here did'nt want anything to do with it, dose'nt mean he is a badd caller or teacher, just different coyotes to call to...
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 09, 2008, 05:59 PM:
 
I think Tim will agree with me, then, that the enjoyment and the challenge of going outside your regular area and calling coyotes in a habitat structure vastly different than that to which you are accustomed isn't so much about trying to make the coyotes respond to your way of calling as it is studying the country, thinking a bit like a coyote, and trying to adapt how you make your presentation so as to produce the best likely response rate.

In other words, calling is calling to a point, but at some point, where you are, the time of the year, and the lay of the land will force you to change the way you operate in order to meet the needs of the coyotes where you stand. When hunting the plains of western Kansas, or the Nebraska panhandle - big country with long views and few roads - I've hunted one way where we call to reach ears no more than a couple hundred yards away and no more because we're hoofing it that way to make our next stand in thirty minutes. High up in the Rockies, with ponderosa's all around and runnin' and gunnin' up mountain valleys and passes, you keep your stands short, brief pauses between each series, but only because you can only blow a call about ten times before you almost pass out from the altitude and because you don't wanna have to walk too far to the next stand. You also have to be vigilant for bears and cougars sneaking up on you, so your wah-wah's sound a little more constipated as your ass cheeks grab the rock your sitting on.

Then, here at home, where we have mile roads every, well, mile, we usually only have one good patch of suitable cover for coyotes per section, and it's usually near dead center, so we set up with the wind (if we can) and give her total hell because we'll be going back to the truck and moving a couple miles when we're done - well beyond hearing range of this setup.

Nutshells and brass tack: How a coyote reacts to your calling will be a function of its life experience and where you're hunting. He won't change, but you can. Assess where you're hunting, identify how a coyote will exploit the features around you and adapt your presentation to be appealing.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 09, 2008, 07:36 PM:
 
Browning,

My apologies, I did not understand.

After your next posts, I do.

JRB,

My statement about a guide was fully tongue in cheek... Lance said all a novice needs is a good day or two with things going his way, Leonard's trial by fire if you will, to put it all together and be a real coyote hunter from then on out.

And I don't agree with that.

I do agree, however, that for some the experience itself is worthy of the costs.
Just don't sugar coat it and call it something it's not.

I'm willing to bet my favorite rifle, that a weekend at Randy Watson's would yield as much "education", as would the same time spent with anyone claiming to be a coyote hunting instructor.

Nope,I never have hunted with a guide, but I paid for trapping instructions, and I have personally been a racing school instructor and a climbing guide.

I taught my clients plenty, in both cases, so in my own experience I don't see them very differently.
But I taught some of my climbing partners, and learned from them, just like I did the pack of guys I rode with... for free.
This has been totally true of all the people I've hunted with, too.

Education doesn't necessarily improve when it costs money, and it doesn't have to be labeled as such.

And it's two coyotes in a 'coons age! LOL

I didn't catch the shot at Al, I wondered what THO had to do with any of this?

Krusty
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 09, 2008, 07:39 PM:
 
Good post Cdog!
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 09, 2008, 08:05 PM:
 
Thanks, but is it worth a grand?

K,

You said, "Lance said all a novice needs is a good day or two with things going his way." Maybe you did get the point as intended, but to your credit, you have spent a lot of time in the field trying. And a lot of time reading here and elsewhere. Through all those so-called failures, I'm sure you picked up something. A buttload of somethings. My point was that if you were to be accompanied by a good instructor, and he was able to get you into some fur, most of what he'd be offering you would be things you already know. But somewhere, you're missing something. If he could show you that one thing, it would be like breaking the encryption in a secret code. Likely as not, a LOT of stuff would suddenly make sense. They're out there. For some reason, they're just not playing the game with you.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 10, 2008, 09:52 AM:
 
Lance,

I got your point, and as I already analogized it's also Leonard's point.
But I don't believe in this trial by fire theory.

As I also stated I don't believe in a quick fix, but instead, that positive results are born of hard work, experience, and progressive learning.

Nothing has "clicked" for me, as far as technique or knowledge. I'm just now getting "good enough" at the basic hunting skills required, and nothing more.
If I'd had these skills, going in, things would have been very very different.

You guys act like I've been wandering around the woods alone, and that I haven't hunted with others.
I have, some of them quite notable among the online predator calling community, and others at least considered proficient.
Most were left scratching their head, wondering why we didn't do better.

"My point was that if you were to be accompanied by a good instructor, and he was able to get you into some fur, most of what he'd be offering you would be things you already know."

This leads us to TA's point... buy Gerry's book, or Rich, Jay's, or Brent's videos. Save almost a thousand dollars.

"If he could show you that one thing, it would be like breaking the encryption in a secret code."

That's a big "if". And not one I'm (personally) willing to gamble $1000 on.

We haven't established what, or who, is a good instructor (or, in my own mind, separated that from a guide or a friend).

The something, I was missing, was the good sense to stop going WHERE I was going.

Trapping actually taught me more than anything or anyone else did, as far as the real keys to my belated calling success.
I learned how to ask for, and be granted, permission to access private property.

I could go back out to the jungle, or to the same overcalled pieces of public land, and go right back to failing, endlessly... doing the exact things that have been working on fresh ears.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 10, 2008, 10:01 AM:
 
I read the thread over on the other site. Interesting on several levels, especially dogboy ending the conversation in true PMS fashion, which never fails to offend me. I have had a little contact with Rusty Holt, several years ago, seems to be a fair man? He had a very good point about using his photos and misrepresenting them as Tony's from his hot ranches.... and mentioning that Tony had not killed a bobcat until recently, which tells me something about his general qualifications as Chancellor of our first Coyote University. Apparently his experience doesn't run all that deep, (except in dog years) for some people shelling out a thousand bucks; but he does have access, which is EVERYTHING, in Texas. So why is he given a lot of credit for being a major innovator in the Predator Hunting Community? I have nothing against a guy polishing his resume' but as far as I'm concerned, he looks like a newbie? Whatever, I just felt like talking? Dogboy don't shut things down over here, ya know?

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 10, 2008, 10:42 AM:
 
Nothing against Tony because he is a friend of mine, but he,and a few others over there, need to realize that pictures taken by and owned by someone are their legal property. It's one thing to save it to your hard dive and use it as your background or show it to friends. It's entirely something else to use it without permission in a for profit business venture. At the very least, it should not have been cropped, and he should have cited who was in the pic, or who took the pic, even when being used in the manner they were. A guy can get his butt into a LOT of legal trouble doing that sort of stuff. That would be like someone copying one of my article's off T&PC's website and putting it on their site to promote their business while leaving the reader to assume that the work was theirs. I'm glad they got it worked out without any further problems.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 10, 2008, 11:35 AM:
 
The hell with legal, Lance.

It's the ethical part. Somebody intentionally cropped that photo.

I think Rusty makes a damned good case. Why would anybody delete a hunter standing behind his kill? Tony's reply was not an admission; "it's a total mystery; but I deleted it from my hard drive."

It doesn't matter to me....and I don't see that it has anything to do with your friendship with Tony or Randy's frendship with Tony.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I still see this particular venture as not favorable to the predator hunting community, in general.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on June 10, 2008, 12:42 PM:
 
Some folks teach and some folks do. It sounds to me like Tony is more teacher than hunter, though he is a good hunter from all accounts. His experience is thin I’m told, but that is common for those who teach most subjects, and true of many who write.

There is a well known, even famous hunter/writer/guide who started hunting western big game without knowing much at all. His early writing was frankly poor. But he is a good self promoter, is a quick learner and has the ability to learn something one day and teach/show it to someone else the next day with the confidence and skill as if he had long guiding experience. It is amusing but I don’t begrudge him a thing. He went on a few guided hunts with a friend of mine and is now a famous competitor, though they are friends and hunt together once in awhile.

All this to temper the conversation with the fact that Tony’s lack of years of experience doesn’t mean anything, except to those of us who have put in the years and may know more than Tony. We aren’t in his pool of potential clients.

As to the photo: very bad judgement at best.

I’ll give him the benefit of doubt as being an ignorant novice… once. If that is a tendancy to cut corners, he and his business are in for a rough ride. I had an outfitter swipe a published story and photo of mine and use it verbatim in a large slick advertising brochure in Europe. He had also misled the publisher so that I would have had to sue both, which I did not want to do. Have had several variations on that, one of them kind of funny by some African friends who considered their unauthorized re-publication of my visuals and text a compliment to me. On that one, I decided to grin and agree.

I wished Tony well in the other forum but will probably sit this one out from here on.

[ June 10, 2008, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 10, 2008, 03:40 PM:
 
Lance is right. Copy right infringement can get real expensive, real fast. Even if you are using a cropped version of someone else's picture, if you are doing it for profit, you'd better have the photographers permission, and in most cases, even the photographer needs written permission before he can sell an image if a person or private property can be recognized in it.

That's one of the great things about photography going digital. It is now much easier for a photographer to protect his digital images. Most of the upper end cameras include an encryption code that can't be seen in the image, but is saved in all digital copies. All of my images are encoded with my name, phone number and time and date that the image was taken. They can still be stolen, but it is now a lot easier to prove in court that the images are mine, and can't be used with out permission.
 

---

Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on June 10, 2008, 05:21 PM:
 
Dang,
You guys are making me feel real bad. I was charging way more than a $1000 for instruction 10 years ago!
And many many people paid it. Many came back several times and years in a row. I only recall (1) guy that said, he was disappointed. He was an eletist type from SCI and didnt want to actually hunt. He was more of a show me which one to shoot type like they do in Africa.
Oh well.....it takes all kinds. I guess one out of many hundreds is a good thing.

Tony called me and asked for advice, and I gave it to him. I am glad to see he took some of it.
Personal instruction, be it calling, trapping, fishing, whatever, doesnt cost........it pays for itself many times over.

I made VERY good income guiding and teaching, and am very proud of many of my students. Some have gone on to become great callers. Some didnt.
But they all learned something, and that is what i wanted to happen and what made me keep doing it for 12 years in a row.

I do wish Mr. Tebbe well, and if he will start charging more, I believe he will make it.
 

---

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on June 10, 2008, 05:58 PM:
 
Steve, you are an exception from those instructors who have little experience. You are the only hunting/outdoor instructor I've ever known whose course I wanted to take. Am convinced that it would be money well spent though I never made the trip. Came within a whisker of splitting the cost with my son and sending him go with you.

As part of my work I've had to take some mountaineering and whitewater courses from Everest/Olympic class paddlers, etc. In one I went from a shaky paddler in Class 3 water to easily surfing standing waves in serious whitewater, with a canoe, in two days. It is possible to learn a LOT from a good instructor if the student brings some basic level of knowledge/experience plus teachability and a desire to learn.

I think there is a market for Tebbe to do well, if he is a good instructor and it sounds like he is that. From reading on these forums, a high percentage of posters are abysmally ignorant of basics in calling critters, and often don't realize how and why they succeed even when they do call coyotes. That's an instant market/student pool.

Over on the police state profit forum one guy posted how he had carefully set up exactly the same for 63 stands and had never gotten a coyote though he had been "busted" and "back doored" many times. Du-uh. It doesn't take a Harvard professor to tell the guy to turn his set-up around and try it facing the opposite direction. Coyote callers familiar with the critter's tendencies would know from his description that he was setting up backwards. One session with Tony and this guy would think Tony was a genius instructor.

[ June 10, 2008, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

---

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on June 10, 2008, 06:38 PM:
 
The reason I started giving paid coyote calling instructions is twofold.

First, in order to teach someone who is serious about improving their game, it requires a committment of actually showing them what is required to take success to a higher level. You simply can't explain calling strategies as well as you can show someone. To show it requires time and effort. After so many years of improving my own learning curve and paying others to teach me, I was no longer willing to put that time and effort into teaching someone to the same degree for free.

Secondly, giving paid instructions gave me additional incentive to continue learning myself and allow me an additional source of income to afford better quality calling equipment. I'm learning more every day. Right now I'm getting used to the fact that a coyote in my scope at 12x is not as close as it looks after years of shooting 7.5x and 8x scopes. Yeh, I know that sounds like pretty basic stuff but it goes to show how a person's eye becomes trained over the years and now I'm trying to retrain it. That sucks but it's part of using a scope with hash marks which are set for certain distances with a certain power of scope. Still working on that as well as using the wind marks as leads on running coyotes.

I know this might sound hard to believe but it is possible to recreationally hunt coyotes to the point where it's not as fun as it once was particularly when you take it to the level of calling and killing individual problem coyotes for 20+ years. There is a big difference between the challenge of killing "a coyote" and "the coyote". To quote Q, "anyone can be a rock star in Texas". Now don't get me wrong, I still enjoy out of state coyote calling contests and I absolutely love calling and killing problem coyotes due to the additional challenges associated with each. In contrast, to go out and recreationally call coyotes for fun, it doesn't create the thrill it once did. That is another reason I decided to get paid to teach just as I paid those before me to teach me. The fun of recreational non competitive coyote calling isn't what it once was. The money I spent for coyote calling and trapping instructions was money well spent. If I could find someone to take me to a higher level of success in my calling, I'd gladly pay them a reasonable amount if I couldn't teach them as much as they were teaching me. Paying for knowledge is the only assurance I would have of knowing that they are going to teach me all that they can and I don't have to feel guilty about pumping them for information.

I've never advertised because I only wanted to give instructions to those who were real serious about improving their game. When someone takes the initiative to seek out someone who can impove their game, they're usually pretty easy to teach and willing to learn. It's a joy to work with someone like that and all of my students have been very serious about continually improving their game.

The real untapped source of knowledge in improving your coyote calling game is in the understanding of how coyote behavior changes from area to area and from season to season. Each area is plagued with it's own unique challenges and overcoming those challenges is the key to reaching a higher degree of success. The popularity of coyote calling has created a new breed of preconditioned coyotes which require different strategies to maintain the same level of success that you experienced in the past. Some coyotes require switching from different calling strategies to hunting strategies without calling. Nobody can claim to know the answers to every problem someone else's faces in their respective areas but by understanding how others have overcome problems in their area, it gives you the understanding of how to identify the problem. Once the problem has been correctly identified, then it starts to become easier to develop a solution.

This has been an interesting thread.

Edit: I might add that I also recently learned that Leonard can shoot under pressure and his smiling face has been added to the Rushmore monument due to his coyote calling accomplishments. Drum roll please.....Hehe!

~SH~

[ June 11, 2008, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

---

Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on June 13, 2008, 05:23 PM:
 
I think that in some areas in Texas there is no doubt that anyone can be a “Rock Star.” That being said I certainly don’t think that any Texan should have to apologies for having such good hunting. There are areas in TX that have virtually no coyotes or other predators at all.

I have no problem with a guy charging for instructions or someone paying for instructions. If you think that some one can help your game then it is worth what ever you are willing to pay. I think that Scott, Steve and Cal all took instructions from Craig O’Gorman? Marty Sinicker (spelling?) out of Alberta traps and snares around 700 coyotes a season and has also taken O’Gormans coarse. My point is there have been good instructors available for a long long time. Craig has been doing it now for over 30 years and was trained by the best. Now he trains and works with the best. This is not a new concept by a long shot.

The big boom in predator calling now is reminiscent of the fur boom of the late 70s early 80s. Everyone had the next best thing for sale from lures to traps to instructions. The fur prices fell and many fell off into obscurity.

In Craig’s sails pitch for his instructions he starts off by giving respect where respect is due and lists off the names of people that have helped him get to where he is today.

Gerry Blair in his book Predator Caller’s Companion gives respect and accredits those that helped him by listing more than a dozen people in his Forward. These guys are old school and will not forget where they came from.

I don’t see that kind of respect these days. I see Internet Jockeys riding their way to the top having accomplished nothing but a PR campaign fallowed by one circle jerk after another. From the day TT darkened the door at PM it was all about promotion and selling something. He attached himself to everyone he could that killed a lot of animals. Swinging from one coat tale to the next now he is heading for TX to become a pro.

LOL One of the things that really stands out in my mind about what O’Gorman says is “How can a man that has never broke, say 100 fox, a hundred coon or 100 coyotes teach me how?” Now Craig is talking about a season. TT hasn’t broke 5 cats in his lifetime!! Fox, Coyotes, and Coon I don’t know but it can’t be many. LOL Has he ever even seen a lion?

The funny thing is it might work out for him. The counties that he lists on his sight are loaded with predators. I hunted in one county that he listed one night and killed 20 coons, 3 gray fox and a ringtail. We quit shooting coons because we were afraid of running out of ammo and was holding out for fox and cats. LOL If we would have had plenty of rounds there is no question that we could have killed 40 or more coons that night. That was on 4 sections!!!

In some of the good country down there it is really hard to fathom the numbers of predators. Lance is a hard hunter and he tells me when he goes back home to his ground in KS he is depressed after hunting here in NE. The callable coyotes are in short supply in his area. When I get back from TX I have to force my self to get out of bed and go hunting. I feel that I am wasting my time. Now take a green horn from back east that sees maybe 3 or 4 predators to shoot a year and drop him in the middle of the best predator hunting in the United States!! Tony will have them all star struck. LOL This thing may work after all. LOL

The diploma? LMAO Now that’s a little cheesy even for Tony. Scott maybe you should come out with a bobble head doll or something? Just an idea. Ha!

Good hunting.

Q,
 

---

Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on June 13, 2008, 11:18 PM:
 
Mr. Wagoner sir. You summed it up perfectly. I knew what I was thinking about the subject, but just couldn't get my teeth into it well enough to put into words.
You sir have laid it out so plainly that even your common, run of the mill dead head should be able to understand.

James Holbrook

[ June 13, 2008, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Bopeye ]
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 13, 2008, 11:59 PM:
 
Q,

Most excellent post, your writing skills are definitely improving.

Trapping is so much more exact, than calling, that it pales the comparison... you set an X inch loop, Y inches off the ground, and end up with Z.... a coyote!
Tweak the numbers a bit, and you'll catch 'coons, but not the ranch hand's dog... every time.
(*I know, there's WAY more to it than that, but I'm sure, you get my point)

I followed around after one of the best beaver trappers there will ever be, and he punched in a small selection of well refined sets, that produced on a regular basis, over and over.

In calling, doing the same thing over and over, would be the very definition of being in a rut.

How do we know if trapping sets work consistently?
Because, like a scientific experiment, we can record and track trapping results, in a way we cannot with calling.

"Only the yippers know, and they ain't sayin'".

My trapping "instructor" had 60+ years of notebooks, and 25+ years as a math teacher... and he could tell us his lifetime percentages, when comparing #4 and #5 Bridger front foot catches.

And in trapping, you have some guarantees... if you place your guiding correctly, you can without a shadow of a doubt get an animal to step on an exact few square inches...
No caller can do that with any kind of regularity, let alone teach it.

Calling isn't rocket science, and trapping isn't either... but it's a lot closer to it, in my book.

3 or 4 a year, heck, that's good callin' country!

Oh, by the way, my trapping "instructor" charged me half of what we caught... sorta like partners!

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 14, 2008, 04:38 AM:
 

quote:

---

my trapping "instructor" charged me half of what we caught... sorta like partners! [Big Grin]

---

Pretty much the same arrangements I have with my gunner Matt. He came to me, wanted to learn and I agreed. The terms were simple - don't ever go to any of "my places" without me or I hunt YOU down. Don't tell everyone you know what you see and hear. And if we hunt your ground, we split the fur by half. SO far, it's worked out pretty well. He can out shoot me some days, and whether he's trying or not, brings a degree of comic relief to the game, to which Q and Shaw will attest. LOL Better yet, we've become very good friends, sometimes spend more time with him than my wife, and have come to operate as teammates leading to a higher percentage of sightings and kills than what I've managed hunting solo. I'd rather have the friendship than the cash, but then again, I'm not trying to eek a living out of coyotes. As far as this being the first time this has been attempted? Hardly. I've got a good friend here in Kansas who tried it and bailed when he couldn't make any money, and he's a danged fine caller.
 

---

Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on June 14, 2008, 07:41 AM:
 
Well said, both Scott and Q!
 

---

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on June 14, 2008, 07:51 AM:
 


I am working at a rapid pace on the frame.

I have a feeling that after my next bowl of hot oatmeal, followed by a fresh dip, this diploma will be worth as much as the "other" one.

Oh well. At least I used Cottonelle.

Randy
 

---

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 14, 2008, 08:06 AM:
 

quote:

---

I am working at a rapid pace on the frame.

---

Randy, what ever you do, be sure the frame is nonabrasive and biodegradeable!
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2008, 10:14 AM:
 
....some of you guys can be brutal. Can't we all just get along?

Good hunting. LB

PS Shaw, how much do you plan to charge for that there diploma? I know you have killed more than five cats; if you need another testimonial, let me know, okay?

edit: and I just checked! Nobody has dared post after dogbreath announced the issue closed. That's impressive control or fear factor, or just a lot more classier than Huntmasters?

[ June 14, 2008, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on June 14, 2008, 10:53 AM:
 
It is the off-season OK!! LOL

Well Leonard it all depends on the frame. Joel, Shaw and I hit a good lick down in Texas and killed 35 predators in 2 nights of hunting including 20 bobcats. Even at that I don’t think any of us are qualified to charge some one for our knowledge. I have too much to learn. TT on the other hand went on one “guided” hunt with Jeff, Todd and Rusty. He saw their rigs and how they ran them and is now a professional? That is a little too cannibalistic for my tastes. I think I would wait until I got a little more shit on my boots before I decided to do something like that.

My prediction is that Tony will go to Texas, get a real job and run the PU guide deal on the side. It will be very similar to what Watson and Rusty and a number of other guides do. Tony thrives on notoriety so I am sure we will all have to endure an Internet wide circle jerk after every hunt. LOL





edit: The post got locked down LB

Good hunting.

Q,

[ June 14, 2008, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Q-Wagoner ]
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 14, 2008, 11:13 AM:
 
Looks good Q: I like that redfox in the last pic..
Not to be pushy but you got any pic's of finished fur????
 

---

Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on June 14, 2008, 11:23 AM:
 
I just have the one of all the coyotes for now Tim. You have seen that one.

Good hunting.

Q,
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on June 14, 2008, 11:43 AM:
 
Thats a nice pile of cats. A real nice one on teh right hand end on the first pic.
Looks like Texas is the place to be.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2008, 12:14 PM:
 
Okay, thanks, Q. Made me go back and check it out, and in the process I discovered three pages on "misting". Some of those "well reasoned" comments make me want to SCREAM! I don't know what it is about the subject that makes normally intelligent people say things that are plain ignorant?

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 14, 2008, 02:38 PM:
 
Lance,

Do you think you'd still have a friend, if you'd charged him $1000, and told him to "go home!" on the third day, "And don't come back...unless you bring me another $1000!"?

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on June 14, 2008, 02:51 PM:
 
Q-Wagoner said, "I see Internet Jockeys riding their way to the top having accomplished nothing but a PR campaign fallowed by one circle jerk after another. From the day TT darkened the door at PM it was all about promotion and selling something. He attached himself to everyone he could that killed a lot of animals. Swinging from one coat tale to the next now he is heading for TX to become a pro."

That's the ticket and dead on.

And then Quinton said this. "Tony thrives on notoriety so I am sure we will all have to endure an Internet wide circle jerk after every hunt. LOL "

I thought I was the only one that saw it in that light.

They busted my balls pretty good one time because I brought it to light that his film reel on his old advertisement page was from somewhere else. In other words he was using someone else's picture (imagine that). They swooped down on me, but I expected it. He said he never used someone else's material...... Isn't that what he told Rusty too?
It's all so laughable, but occasionally I like to comment on it.

[ June 14, 2008, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Bopeye ]
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 14, 2008, 06:20 PM:
 
For some there is only one form of promotion and that is self-promotion. Those are the ones that gag most of us.
I drove a go-cart every weekend at the local track for six months. I'm pretty good at it now. I'm gonna open up a high performance driving school and teach you how to drive like a pro.
Anyone want to sponsor my Nextel Cup car?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2008, 08:22 PM:
 
That's actually not a bad metaphor, smithers. From amateur go cart racer to big time $ Predator University through the miracle of the Internet.

PS I'm still pondering something weasel said on PMS. He tried misting 40 years AGO and decided it was not an advantage. What a crock of shit! That idiot's credibility has gone to zero with that statement! But boy! group think, and drink that Koolaid.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on June 14, 2008, 10:02 PM:
 
I won't sponsor your nextel car smithers, but I'll pay you $1000 for 3 days of instruction.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2008, 10:29 PM:
 
Here's the thing on misting, and I guess some Texans have a comprehension problem as I was listening to The Predator Pursuit guys at the campout a couple years ago....... They said that they "tried" misting one night, didn't like it.

Being polite, I didn't say what I was thinking, that they didn't have a clue what it is for, and how to use it, but whatever? I will say right now, that you can use mist or not, but don't be an idiot and claim that it doesn't work, especially if you haven't used it or at least given it a fair chance.

I never said it was the Holy Grail, it is just a way to take an animal that manages to get downwind of you. If you don't need a few extra animals, don't bother with it, but don't talk like an idiot and claim that it doesn't work.

Now, as far as being guided behind locked gates in Texas for serious money? Whatever blows your skirt up.

But, let's call it what it is:

Fantasy Camp for Dudes.

Good hunting. LB

[ June 14, 2008, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2008, 11:52 PM:
 

quote:

---

PS I'm still pondering something weasel said on PMS. He tried misting 40 years AGO and decided it was not an advantage. What a crock of shit! That idiot's credibility has gone to zero with that statement!

---

Actually, weasel, I'm saying you are full of shit. I have not been able to post on your site since 2001, so this is the best I can do. Bare with me.

I'm not "taking it personal" you said you tried "misting" 40 years ago, and that's the lie, so don't blame it on TA for your stupid statement. So, you wasted Higgins time, while he was explaining something you cannot comprehend and now you are knocking his information. Makes you look like a friggin' idiot. If you know how to use the information and choose not to use it, that's your privilage, but instead, you convey the attitude that it (misting) has no merit, and that's incorrect and dishonest. I am so sick of phonys like you pretending to be knowledgeable. You have no business responding in that thread because you have zero experience. And probably not a hell of a lot of experience with anything else about hunting predators; which is why you make a good moderator over there.
 

---

Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on June 15, 2008, 06:25 AM:
 
Pimps and prostitutes, just another ho house poppin up in texas!!!!
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2008, 07:42 AM:
 
Bopeye, another weekend has passed and I've taken a few more laps. My fees have gone up by 300%. Closed gate carting.

Lets see. I could attend a campout once a year with you guys. My expenses to get there would be the only "fee" and I could possibly tap somewhere near 1,000 odd years of predator hunting knowledge? You should charge $10,000 a head at the campout, Leonard. All those years of experience, potentially, for FREE!
This cross board posting is crazy...

I take my two kids out with me calling sometimes. One is 5 and the other 2. Do they get to count these years in their bank of "I've been calling predator's for -- years."
Happy Father's Day. -Chris

[ June 15, 2008, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 15, 2008, 09:06 AM:
 
Leonard: Since you can't post on the other site i took the liberty to copy and past youre reply and posted it on P.M.... Hope you don't mind... T/A...
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 15, 2008, 09:16 AM:
 
Too many subjects going here at once!

But I wanted to reply to Krustys trapping comments. I think you may be correct if trapping muskrats or something (don't know, never trapped them) but coyote trapping is so similar to coyote calling it's amazing. You need to trap a few hundred to get a feel for what I'm talking about. Don't matter about guiding or whatever, a coyote works a trap set like they do a call stand. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. One will blast in to a set a litterally jump into a trap, and another may walk past the same set and lure with total indifference. Another similarity is location, location, location. If you ain't in the right spot, it ain't gonna work. I'm not picking on you, but just wanted to point out that there are some similarities and they are mostly that coyotes are individuals and all react differently to stimulus, wether it be sight, sound, or smell.
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 15, 2008, 09:40 AM:
 
Weasel:

"Any of various carnivorous mammals with a long, slender body, short legs, and a long tail."

When I was a kid we used the name to express our dislike of another person by calling him a weasel. Cats are cool and weasels are social outcasts.

[ June 15, 2008, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 15, 2008, 09:41 AM:
 
LOL, Tim, maybe you should have cited the source. On one thread, people are ripping Tony for using other people's pics and on that thread, you're cutting and pasting Leonard's comments and they look for all the world to be yours, sans the misspellings. You need to edit a byline into that post. I'm sure Leonard wouldn't have said it - anywhere - unless he was willing to stand behind it. Not ripping you. Just pointing out a certain irony there..
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 15, 2008, 09:46 AM:
 
Hey Leonard,

Just noticed the change in member statuses. That's funny, but I think that most of the guys here should maybe qualify for PAKMAN University Faculty Member - Fully Tenured, or something like that. Did you e-mail out diplomas? They could be called "Predator hunting Diplomas - Ph. D.'s..
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 15, 2008, 10:06 AM:
 

quote:

---

Another similarity is location, location, location. If you ain't in the right spot, it ain't gonna work.

---

That is probably the most important bit of information for anyone to use, be it a trapper or a hunter.

Making the perfect set, or the perfect stand isn't going to produce anything, if the person doing it, doesn't know how to read the land.

If you want big numbers, you have to put yourself where there are big numbers to take. Even then you have to learn what works best in each area. Sets, scents and sounds that work great in one area, may be barely marginal in another area. A good trapper, or a good caller, has enough background knowledge of the animal he is targeting, to quickly make these changes, and adjust accordingly.
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 15, 2008, 10:08 AM:
 
Cdog as long as you know where it came from thats all that matters..
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 10:26 AM:
 
Well, I will wander over there, but I think it will probably have been deleted? I don't think you are doing me any favors? I don't need any help getting in trouble.

edit: wasn't worth the trip. Tim is identified as a "cross poster" and weasel's comprehension problems continue, plus another leg hanger claims I'm banned on the Okie forum, but fails to point out that I will own that board before too long. lol

Good hunting. LB

edit: now, one of our premier members complains about staying on topic! Hello? That's what we DO around here!

[ June 15, 2008, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 10:45 AM:
 
Interesting emails coming through. Seems like there is unrestrained usage of dead critter photos all over Texas, no matter who killed them, on who's property, in who's rig? I'm just saying.....
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 15, 2008, 10:49 AM:
 

quote:

---

edit: now, one of our premier members complains about staying on topic! Hello? That's what we DO around here!

---

It reminds me of sitting around the campfire. There may be a half a dozen different conversations all going on at once, just pick the one you want to be a part of and add your own .02!

And a Happy Father's Day to most of our members!
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 15, 2008, 11:50 AM:
 
No complaints here, just trying to keep up!
I'm used to topics changing fast here, just had to specify that my comments were directed at Krustys trapping opinions of about two pages ago!
Tim B, well stated on the trapping and calling part of this thread. Thats sort of what I was trying to say, but I didn't put it as plainly as you did.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 15, 2008, 12:19 PM:
 
Tim, According to my kids, I'm a mother. Mother "what", I can only guess, but a mother, none the less. (Can't you just feel the love.)

As far as off topics and subject switches goes, I'd like to refer back to the archives, don't know the date, in response to an inquiry made of me by I don't know and simply say, "Who gives a chit."
How's that for an open-ended tangent.

[ June 15, 2008, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 12:24 PM:
 
Now, surprise, surprise! Weasel sent me a whining email. I don't like to ban people, but there are four or five that can claim that distinction; he's one of them. It happened several years ago, in fact but I don't remember the exact circumstances? Trust me, he must have really asked for it, or deserved it, at the time? I would release his permissions, just for laughs, but the difference is that I didn't ask Tim to post my comments on PMS. He says that I didn't invent "misting". Maybe not, but if there is anybody responsible for spreading this information on the world wide web, it would be me, your humble servant. Anyway, this guy has no rights (or tact) and I have no obligation. If he must express himself, maybe he should do it on PM? Seems sort of obvious?

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on June 15, 2008, 12:37 PM:
 
I wish TT good hunting,,
The only thing that troubles me is when someone is charging the kind of cash that they are charging and in the same breath they say at predator university that they give discounts for larger groups for predator hunts.
what do they think there success rate will be with 3 to 5 shooters in the truck at one time.
that's what troubles me ,, he said its just 2 of them guiding,, guys like me save a long time to do hunts and not to mention what we do whitout to take these trips...

the way i see it the more guys out together at the same time is bad teaching, the less the better is how I always seen it. and guys that are signing up for this will have high expectation on getting there first cat or coyote and 3 to 5 guns in the truck are going to damper them dreams .

maybe I ant making sense
but i hope each hunter gets told what he or she can expect on a predator hunt and PU can deliver..
Like they say money don't grow on trees,

[ June 15, 2008, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 15, 2008, 12:54 PM:
 
Cal,

First off, there's no way I'd take advice like that, and say you were picking on me.
I'd rather say, thank you.

I haven't a doubt in my mind, that the coyote is one of the hardest animals to trap, just like they are to hunt or call.
I still think trapping, especially on land, is more about pre-preparedness and technique, than calling is.

A poor caller, in a good location, can still pull it off. Hell, even I have.

But a poorly skilled (and more importantly poorly prepared) trapper could f#*k up the best location.
Granted, water trapping allows some latitude, mostly in that it opens up so many opportunities for "pass-through", no draw, sets.

But a guy could easily catch his first 100 coyotes using these same types of no draw sets, on land, before going on to more technical teachings.
And like you say... almost needs to (catch that first 100), before he does (seek better technique).

And since we're talking about "Predator College", I think it's more fair to compare to predator trapping as a whole.
A 'cat can be guided in with the accuracy of placement I inferred, to the point that there are "bare pan" sets, with all or part of the trap exposed.
And a gray fox, and virtually any other small predator on land or water, will readily hop into a cage trap... though red's are harder than most.

Tim,

Going to Texas, won't change the population here at home.

So success there won't transfer here, or back to anyone else's home turf, on your "big numbers" line of thinking.
How will big numbers teach one to find success where they aren't?

Now we're back to Leonard's trial by fire... at a fantasy dude ranch... for $1000

"Making the perfect set, or the perfect stand isn't going to produce anything, if the person doing it, doesn't know how to read the land.

...A good trapper, or a good caller, has enough background knowledge of the animal he is targeting, to quickly make these changes, and adjust accordingly."

I could not agree more, there's just no way in the world, I am ever going to believe, anyone could teach, or learn all that... in a weekend!

One might leave Tony's, having had a good hunt, seen a good number of critters, and had a really good time.

But I doubt they'd leave, after a mere three days, with anyone, anywhere on this continent... a good caller.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2008, 12:55 PM:
 
George, I agree, I think...

TT is the whipping boy of the week. No one, I think, has any serious ill will towards the guy or his efforts.
A hokey name and high hopes doesn't make him a bad guy. Misrepresenting and cropping photos casts shadows though.

Basil Bangheart was banned because he was a douche bag.
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 15, 2008, 12:57 PM:
 
Sorry about that Leonard, i guess i have to learn to mind my own...
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on June 15, 2008, 01:03 PM:
 

quote:

---

George, I agree, I think...

---

lol:D
i gave it a shot
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 01:08 PM:
 
Yeah, thanks a lot, Tim.

Now he is calling me a PUNK! But, safely; via email, of course! Can you believe it? I'm a PUNK! He must be a short guy, talks like one of those people with an inferiority comlex?

That's going to ruin my whole day, and on Father's Day!

Where does it say that I have to "accurately" quote him? I never said that I was quoting him, verbatim.

He's not an authority on anything, much less predators, and for sure, he doesn't know a damned thing about "misting". He proves that every time he opens his mouth.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 15, 2008, 01:19 PM:
 
Weasel P.M. me and asked if i could post something here for him since he cannot...

Don't want to be noted as a cross poster and i learned my lesson so i won't..
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 01:38 PM:
 
No, I don't think you should try that, Tim. He wore out his welcome here a long time ago. Kinda cool though? Desperate enough to ask you to do it. I hope he doesn't try it with anybody else, 'cause that would get me pissed off.

Apparently this is really eating at him. Wish I could help. He continues to send me mouthy emails.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on June 15, 2008, 02:26 PM:
 
Krusty - Bobcats like live traps too. They seem to like them brushed in good.
Used them when we needed a cat or a coon to work the dogs with.

edit to say just got back from cooking my dad a fine fathers day meal....I hope all the dads have a great day today.
Kelly

[ June 15, 2008, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2008, 02:29 PM:
 
I wish I could say that I was above the fray but I am not. Way to whirlpool the pot, TA! LOL...
...this is the kind of fracas that gives me hope for humanity.
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 15, 2008, 02:43 PM:
 
Krusty,

The important part is just getting out there day in and day out learning to read sign. I took over 300 raccoons a year for a number of years, even had a couple of 500+ years. But I can't do that here in the desert where I live now.

But when I was in Indiana, I only averaged about 35 coyotes a season. That was by calling, trapping and snaring combined. Here in AZ, I'm not allowed to use snares, and 70% of the land is off limits to trapping, But I bet that if I were to put out the same trapping effort now as I did 10 years ago, I could have a 200+ coyote season.

Different areas, have different populations prevail.

I'm betting that while you may not have a lot of coyotes in your area, you probably do have a ton of Raccoons and beaver. Just pick a species that is widely available in your area, and learn to excel. The things you learn while working with just the one animal, will easily cross over and apply to other animals in other areas.

Just be careful if you take up beaver trapping. While it is nearly impossible to wipe out a coon population, it's a different story with beaver. Always make sure that you leave a few for seed.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 15, 2008, 02:44 PM:
 
Leonard,

Just to make sure that no one - here or there - thinks that you have ever taken credit for "inventing 'misting'", I would like to refer them to the January 2004 issue of Trapper & Predator Caller magazine where I, the proverbial misbred, hare-lipped idiot, penned what has come to be known as my most controversial piece - Coyote Nirvana. In that very piece, you credited Steve Sundeen as the man who introduced misting to you. That piece, I believe, was the first time you or anyone else contributed to a nationally released article on the subject, and you've been taking it in the teeth ever since.

Nope, you didn't invent it. You've never said you did, nor would Mr. Sundeen make that claim, I predict. But you've certainly been the one to try and re-educate the ignorant.

(Note: The preceding was an effort to clarify Leonard's role in the public promotion of misting and a clarification of the facts in my article as well as a weak attempt at self promotion and are not to be misconstrued as boot licking of any kind.)
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 03:03 PM:
 
Lance, that's not exactly what the conversation consisted of, with Steve. (if I remember correctly?) We were comparing notes about misting or something related to the hunt, which was interesting since it was a three way tie for first place with ten coyotes. Anyway, I think I was discussing a particular coyote on a particular stand, and he was asking me how I was using it (the mist) and I offered a demonstration, or recreation, if you will? What he said to me was that he used (at least) twice as much as I did and I took his advice, thereafter, and came to believe he had a better technique.

However, I had been using various mist mixtures for (perhaps) twenty years before that particular conversation. I don't know how that got twisted around into him teaching me misting, but I believe his advice was very good....which amounted to: the more, the better? Steve's one of my peers, not a mentor. Hell of a good guy; last I saw him was at Nancy's funeral.

Good hunting. LB

edit: I just thought of something. Who did what and when, is lost in the history of those that were doing it, at the time. Who used the first flipper light, built a California Rig, sprayed mist downwind, etc.? What I can tell you is that the only pioneers doing any of these things were people I knew and hunted with and against in the CSVCA. What I will claim is that nobody ever heard of misting, outside of our little circle, until I started explaining it on the Internet about twelve years ago....and they still don't get it?

[ June 15, 2008, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 15, 2008, 03:17 PM:
 
When I speak or write about misting I have the hardest time getting people to seperate it from cover scents in their head , just cant get them to understand that it does not remove human scent from the equation. I would be very interested to know WHO did come up with the original idea of misting anyone know?
 

---

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 15, 2008, 03:20 PM:
 
I was posting while you were editing,do you know if Danny Batastini would know who dunnit
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 04:08 PM:
 
No, Danny was another contemporary, using techniques established years previously. (and also a high school classmate, you know?)

If anybody ever claimed to be responsible for inventing misting, I never heard? It was a "given". If you were a menber of CSVCA and participated in the hunt contests, you were aware of it, and the other cutting edge inovations we were known for. Third generation knowledge; and Texans think they know stuff. We were all using mist, (we just called it scent) in the sixties and that's as far as I go back? Any new member was put in the truck and for sure, that scent bottle came out on the first stand. Indispensable, if you want the truth? Yet, we have internet experts that poo poo it's use. Whatever?

Now, true to form, the attack squad has weighed in over there, including a certain individual that I have long had a grudge for. Something happened, some unknown person did something thatgot them excited, while they were excoriating me for some imagined trannsgression. But, one of them suggested I might have done it and this asshole volunteered to take care of me if I did it, whatever "IT" was? Well, I never forgot that chickenshit post (it was probably in the moderators forum) and there he is again, mouthing off, and lecturing "somebody" on proper behavior. What a friggin' joke! Another knee rider, group dogpile. Imagine the incivility; calling somebody a liar! Guess they won't be inviting me to the butt sniffing sessions anytime soon? Am I glad I'm out of that bullshit website. They did me a favor. Most definitely.

Good hunting. LB

edit: besides that Paul. If there be someone that we could credit with starting it, do you think he would raise his hand, knowing all the grief I have endured because of it? No way!

[ June 15, 2008, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 15, 2008, 04:46 PM:
 
Im sorry to hear all B.S. that passes for knowledge and all the character assinations via the internet boards, I guess you just have to seprerate the bull shit from the ice cream. The problem comes in when new Pred. hunters read the bullshit and take it for fact Having come from a 90 day internet wonder and predator hunting guru. It does take some time to know whos who and whats credible. We'll have to talk when next I see you I have some interesting poop not suitable for the board. regarding knowit all moderators.
 

---

Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on June 15, 2008, 06:11 PM:
 
George,
You are absolutely right about too many hunters.
I would never allow more than 2 clients at a time, and even then, I always told them that the extra man would cut your success rate by 50% in most cases.
Many had to find this out the hard way.
It is just more difficult getting guns, callers, and making the extra noise getting to the stand.
Rare was the times when things worked out with myself and 2 hunters on a hunt.
A one on one hunt was always a joy to do, and generally more successful.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 15, 2008, 07:08 PM:
 
Kelly,

Thanks, I'm well aware of the fact that 'cats are easily cage caught.
I know more than a few successful cagers.

Hopefully I'll be able to put my own cages to work, on 'cats, this winter.

Tim,

I imagine that day in day out, lasts for more than three days, before it sinks in...

We got plenty of 'coon, that's for sure.
I'm up to 26 raccoons, in the last month, now that I am doing (almost) full time NWCO (nuisance wildlife control operator... urban ADC).
As soon as the kits get out and moving, that number should really take off.

I recently saw the number 100,000 thrown around as an estimated raccoon population, inside Seattle's city limits (not including the surrounding areas).
That oughta keep me busy.

Now that I'm a professional trapper, leaving a few for seed raises some tough ethical questions, but I fully understand your point.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on June 15, 2008, 09:27 PM:
 
The fall semester, beginning in Nov. 08, DDU (Dirk Digler University) will be offering advanced courses in the following subjects:
Cammo-less Calling #101
Killing coyotes with BB guns #201
Coyote,cats and fox for those over 50 #301
Call it,see it,kill it #069

Fees are as follows:

2 day course is $500 ( half of what other major PUs are charging)

5 day course is $1000

You cover your fly in,your lodging,your food and your own travel,and DDU will provide the finest predator calling instruction this side of a locked Texas gate!

We won't charge for the frills of eating or travel or lodging, just pure predator hunting and personal instruction.

Registration is limited,and filling fast...diplomas; if students pass course material, will be handed out at your departure

Come join the cordial staff and nationally recognized instructors at DDU for an experience you won't soon forget, but wish you could.
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 15, 2008, 09:37 PM:
 
Krusty,

My comment about leaving seed was only meant for recreational beaver trapping. You can't over tap coons in good coon habitat. Just don't fall into the mistake of relocating, instead of eternizing coons. When you relocate a coon, all you do is move a problem from one area to another area, only now he is trap wise.

Before giving a customer a price for beaver removal, it's best to look over the site with the customer. Get him to talking and try to find out how many people have tried to catch him before you were called. Then price accordingly.

Coyotes have a reputation of being hard to catch, but it is that old bachelor beaver, whom a half a dozen people have tried and failed to catch, that will really test you as a trapper.
 

---

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on June 15, 2008, 10:07 PM:
 
Hey Dirk, What about classes to cover the always asked question of, "which 30 round mag do I need for the hard charging herd of coyotes?". Or the ever popular "How to build a guilli from common household items". And no curriculum would be complete with out a 'Talk the Talk' section. You can cover things like 'DRT', 'Bangflop', and of course evryones favorite....'Yote'
Of course, some of these items may need to be covered in post grad studies.

[ June 15, 2008, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2008, 10:43 PM:
 
Well, down in that area, a man would be a fool to sit a stand without a sidearm, maybe two? Not for Mexicans, for aggressive coyotes. The locals don't talk about it much. True story. LB
 

---

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 15, 2008, 10:46 PM:
 
What is the huge deal about misting??

If you think that it works,.......MIST.

If you think that it doesn't work,.....Don't Mist.

If you think that it may help on some stands,.......Mist those stands.

How friggin' complicated can this be???? Misting is a tool to use, same as a shotgun or a tack driving rifle. Each has it's place. Squeekers or high decible electro-callers?? Again, tools to be used; nothing more or less.
I would hate to even think about the fit these guys would have if Leonard was promoting misting because he was se11ing urine.
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 16, 2008, 04:48 AM:
 
Kokopelli,

I think that you just hit on the problem.

Leonard isn't selling Mist, or even selling the idea of misting.

He's just taken a good idea, that has worked well for him and many others, and offered it up for free.

Some folks believe anything offered for free, can be of any real use.
 

---

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on June 16, 2008, 05:29 AM:
 
How about two new forums? Hobby Mist Mixer and a Custom Mist Mixer?
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 16, 2008, 06:18 AM:
 
Weasel said that he and some others want to see me held accountable in a court of law. For what?

Not buying a Foxpro? Not following the how to think and what to write law at PMS?

I mean please, he talks so much crap and then has a hissy fit and poops in his adult diapers when it is aimed at him or the people he surrounds him self with. He is a foxpro leg humper and nothing more!

I wouldn't give him another second of mention on this site. For insignificant little boards, he and the other mods seem to watch these so very closely. But I thought he hated these boards? But he keeps on coming back. Sounds familiar? Now he asks someone to post a reply here? How pathetic!
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on June 16, 2008, 06:49 AM:
 
"the way i see it the more guys out together at the same time is bad teaching, the less the better is how I always seen it."
----------------------------------
George,
I agree with you on that. Two is company, three is a crowd, sort of like teen age dating.
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 16, 2008, 07:32 AM:
 
Diggler would never suffer from weak stream.

Leonard
Well, I see the makings of a good thread, if we can omit the personal references?

I hope the Carlson urethra jab wasn't over the line.
 

---

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on June 16, 2008, 07:55 AM:
 
The song and movie title that keeps running through my head is, "Play Misty for Me."

Leonard, as to the "secret" getting out, I knew about using scents on stand in the late 60's. I was in southern California then, early in my calling days. I bow hunted only in daylight, and didn't have much time for that as a newly married grad student working my way through perdition.

I knew a couple of kids, maybe 11 and 13, brothers, whose Dad owned a sporting good store in Saugus/Santa Clarita (somewhere now within the sprawling Canyon Country should encompass it anyway). They were in a predator calling club and hunted contests regularly with their Dad, mostly night hunts. They talked of using scents but I never did try it. Maybe the club was the outfit you mention. They taught me some good stuff about how to use a light when calling at night also.

I bought my Weems All-Call from them. It had interchangeable jack rabbit and cottontail reeds. I still use it, though I have lost the cottontail voice and the box in a move along the way.

My father-in-law from Washington State taught me to call and he used several scents he got from trapping supply places, on rags or in open bottles, not really misting with a spray, though he used two scents on the same stand at times. You guys in California developed and refined the concept way beyond anything I've heard of others doing, however.

I met Doug Kittridge but not Dougherty. In hindsight, should have joined the club, but I've always been more a solitary hunter.

This not to contradict anything but to verify some of Leonard's dates and add a smidge of info from the fringe of those days.

[ June 16, 2008, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

---

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on June 16, 2008, 12:46 PM:
 
I remember my last post on PM. Somebody was asking about an adjustable stock for an AR because he couldn't get his line of site up to the high mounted scope. I gave him a suggestion that I have used successfully on a couple of rifles. Cut a mouse pad into your desired shape and height, tape it to your stock and cover everything with a stock bag or vet wrap. It cushions the recoil and cost about $5 for the vet wrap tape. I was dogpiled on and told how that would make an AR ugly. Id didn't know that was a pretty rifle to begin with. It must have been too practical for that crowd.

Anyway...and in the spirit of going off topic...

To you beaver trappers...I read in the recent fur,fish, and game that you can target adult beaver by setting traps further away from beaver dens, and that the type of bait used played a small part. Does that jive with your experiences?
 

---

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on June 16, 2008, 12:55 PM:
 
The more I think about it, misting is pretty impressive sh*t. Now I have heard about boys who claim to have won "pissing contests" for distance. One even claimed to be able to piss over a bale stack. That's impressive pressure to say the least but to be able to mist, that's absolutely incredible. "HEY, WHERE DID HE GO? I CAN'T SEE HIM BEHIND THE YELLOW FOG!" I can only imagine what it would be like to have that kind of pressure. Heck, you wouldn't need to call the fire department if you had a fire. "STAND BACK BOYS". Instead of writing your name in the snow, you could give the whole snow bank a yellow hue. Heck if I could mist I could clear the clingers from the bowl without a scrub brush. "Check this out duuuuude"... "cool, a piss rainbow". Who says misting doesn't work? You just gotta know how to do it....Tighten them ass cheeks boys.

~SH~
 

---

Posted by Rusty Holt (Member # 350) on June 16, 2008, 03:05 PM:
 
Q:

One quick thing....I don't guide anymore. Nothing big, but just wanted to make that clear. I'm going to spend a ton of time up in the chair myself this next year doing what I love.

As far as Tebbe goes. I've made it clear on the PM boards and on the phone to Tebbe where I stand. I'm done with it. We'll see what happens from here.

Take care and God Bless,

Rusty
 

---

Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on June 16, 2008, 04:23 PM:
 
I think I remember you saying that Rusty. Best of luck to you this year.

Good hunting.

Q,
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 16, 2008, 04:34 PM:
 
What a bunch of crap! Everybody should know for the record, that Al Gore invented misting, and the internet, so we could talk about it!
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 16, 2008, 05:16 PM:
 
Tim,

I followed you, I did have a really great beaver trapper teaching me, and he didn't neglect to teach me to leave some for seed.

I'm actually really lucky, in that the area I trap for beavers is along a large river, that constantly resupplies me with a transient population.
And, in that most of the places I do get to trap, haven't been trapped in a generation or two... all fresh and uneducated.

TLB,

I was taught not to set close to a beaver lodge, a feed pile, or along any regular travel route (like feeding channels).
It's too easy to spook the others, by having them see dead beavers in a set, and have them "bug out".

"We don't have to go to the beavers, we can make the beaver come to us!"

That little nugget of wisdom, was dropped on me after requesting we make a long tromp across the swamp...
Sorta like the young bull/old bull joke;

"Hey let's go way over there, and catch us A BEAVER!!!"

"No, let's stay right here, and catch 'em all!

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on June 16, 2008, 06:19 PM:
 
"What a bunch of crap! Everybody should know for the record, that Al Gore invented misting, and the internet, so we could talk about it!"

LOL!!
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 16, 2008, 08:08 PM:
 
You sure it was'nt Pat Paulson that invented misting!!!
 

---

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 16, 2008, 08:29 PM:
 
Hey I've attended two campouts ,I should be able to start my own driving school by now!

Actually Al Gore did not invent misting he just smells that way...
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 16, 2008, 09:45 PM:
 
I've said this before, but something else irritates me about the misting brainstormers. Wow, mix up something different!

There's an idea probably nobody has ever thought of before?

When used properly and mixed properly, it is effective, for at least forty years that I know of? You use a howler and a rabbit distress and when the coyote gets downwind, he smells: coyotes and rabbits! Why would anybody, after considering the subject for five minutes claim it doesn't work, ain't for him, too much trouble....whatever he is claiming at the moment, and then come up with such a cleaver idea of using something else? It is not that using something else would not work; (yeah, it does) but, it is that the original formula is plenty good enough, without out these flashes of brilliance. I doubt that there is anybody that uses mist that has not pondered different, exciting new scents, long ago. They try it and go back to the original. Ancient history. As I said years ago, if you are out of scent, plain old clam juice will work passably well.

What Higgins does, I don't think it's necessary, but if it makes him happy, that's great. He's taking pictures anyway, but I think he is providing too much information. Everybody and their brother will claim their exact mixture is the only one that works. I would resist the temptation to reinvent the wheel.

Good hunting. LB

Also, I know Rick and Gary Thomas, (same club, the San Gabriel Chapter of the CSVCA) I will have to ask them if they actually invented misting? Maybe so, but I know where I got it , from my partner, who had hunted with Rick a few times, so maybe it's true?

One thing for sure, there are applications where you don't need mist, but the trick is to know what they are. It's not true to just say, heavy cover. It's very effective out on the sagebrush flats too.

[ June 16, 2008, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on June 17, 2008, 04:51 AM:
 
I see that someone copied a post from this board and pasted it on P.M.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=1&Number=52854946&page=0&fpart=4

Not too smart.
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 17, 2008, 05:48 AM:
 
Yeah and I love Weasels posts about LB!!
 

---

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on June 17, 2008, 08:41 AM:
 
Well damn, you guys finally pushed me over the edge and I clicked the PM link. Don't remember the last time I visited that site- but in the three minutes it took me to read page 7 there was one deletion and two edits upon refreshing. Just like old times.

I wish I could pull up the slanderous attacks on Mr. Cronk but they're gone even from quotes. I believe it was something to the effect of a senile old man making howlers that sound like a kicked goose. Looks like the Ferret is taking a fair number of personal jabs at Leonard as well: you'd think a moderator would know the coveted "T.O.S." better than that?

Somebody call Judge Judy.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 08:50 AM:
 
Higgins, tell your snotty little friend that I am entitled to rant. And, he does not seem to have any respect and it reflects poorly on him. I expect it from weasels, but not the guys you take out and then show them your whole bag of tricks.

May it please the court. I have heard every half baked solution, every negative opinion for many years, and once in a while it gags me. Well now, my message(s) has/have no validity because I don't hunt every weekend. My only defense is, been there, done that, but I'd also like to know who around these parts has as many hunt contests under their belt? Damned few. That's kinda where it's at, in some circles. I mean, is Joe Namath a bum because he's retired?

By the way. It is totally out of line to drag Cronk into the discusion, what did he do to deserve it? The fact that he is 80, and an ex cop? That's sassy punk stuff, in my view. I don't think he is anywhere near 80? Just another example of the lack of respect from your new buddy. He needs to shut the fuk up.

Good hunting. LB

edit: crikey, JR. You are right, they just deleted the whole 7th page!

[ June 17, 2008, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 17, 2008, 09:29 AM:
 
Just another train wreck on the old PM site.
Nothing new or shocking.

Don't take the jabs from Weasel to heart, consider where they come from. Everyone knows he is a loser.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on June 17, 2008, 09:59 AM:
 
Leonard,
I ain't really 80 yet, just FEELS like 80.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 17, 2008, 01:26 PM:
 
Hell, I feel like I'M 80, for FWIW.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 02:14 PM:
 
The first 5 members that correctly identifies this moron will get a super neat (and vintage) Arizona Predator Posse patch for their jacket.

All submissions must be same way, via email, so include your mailing address Buckaroos, to get your kool APP patch today!



TODAY'S MAIL read on~
Oh buddy! I think I finally get it. Now hear me out. I have access to an old water truck. You know, the kind that is used to spray down roads and construction sites. I can cut a hatch in the top of the cab to spotlight and shoot from. Sort of a California rig like yours. It MUST be legal, right? The BIG improvement will be that I can fill the tank with animal piss and roadkill, etc. I can drive into the nearest National Park and drench, I mean totally saturate they entire area with scent. What say you Master? Of course the fact that I took first place in every contest hunt but one where I took 2nd with a rank newbie doesn't matter. I must have been doing something wrong because I didn't use any cover scent, attracting scent or any other kind of scent. I am shamed! Maybe I just hunted areas that had suicidal animals in it?


XOXOXOXO < These are for you!
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 02:32 PM:
 
Okay, you can enter the contest as many times as you want, except; (damn it) this guy that wrote the email IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR A PATCH! duh!
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 17, 2008, 02:34 PM:
 
LOL, Some people have a hard time with other people pissing them off, and even when no one intended to piss anyone off. I don't have a clue who sent you that Leonard, but they need some serious help.

Leonard has given of his experience to help others, and this is what a few give back in return. Never have I seen a clearer illustration of the old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I can't help but think that if e-mails like that got posted on PM, reasonable men would look at that and somewhere, somehow begin to question the character of those who would write anything like that. I mean, I've heard pretty much all of what Leonard has said, seen it at work, and on the days I'm NOT hunting, have seen no real impact on my world. Can't imagine for the life of me why some of these guys take the subject of misting so personally. OCD? PMS? PTSD?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 02:36 PM:
 
or GLOBAL WARMING?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 03:34 PM:
 
We have our second winner!

edit: and our boy has come unhinged, more emails! I'd post them, but they would really convince all doubters that he's a friggin' idiot.

[ June 17, 2008, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 17, 2008, 03:56 PM:
 
OH come on!! Please post it! We all need to see what these freaks are capable of!
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 04:20 PM:
 
Okay, I am awarding a consolation prize for the guess that cracks me up the most. And, guessing so called leg-humpers, is not funny, people!
 

---

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on June 17, 2008, 05:16 PM:
 
No clue who, so no guesses, BUT on a serious note, a question comes to mind Leonard or anyone that has misted for a period of time: How often have you witnessed a negative reaction to the scent? In other words, were there times where you had a visual of an incoming coyote and "thought" that you'd have a kill opportunity only for it not to happen as if the predator hit the scent cone and turned tail and left because of the scent, and never offered the shot opp.?

Would it be never, sometimes, often times?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 05:36 PM:
 

quote:

---

witnessed a negative reaction to the scent?

---

An emphatic: NEVER

[ June 17, 2008, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on June 17, 2008, 05:55 PM:
 
Leonard,
Check your E mail. I just sent in my winning guess on identity of the E mailing Idiot. I always wanted one of those Arizona Predator Posse badges.
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on June 17, 2008, 06:07 PM:
 
I have never done what you guys call misting,, but I do heavily cent mark my stand location when calling some times,, mostly with coyote pee,, and I lay it down heavy when i do use it...
there are times I will try anything and I mean anything.. I have always looked at it like this every time I walk my big dog though the city street and every time I pass a fire plug or a tree it takes every thing I have in me to pull my dog off the cent bank, witch is the tree or fire plug.. and that's just what it is , a sent bank .
every dog that pass bye will stop and leave a deposit,,, are they marking there tuff ???
or just saying hi to each other , I don't know , but I know this my dog will snap her neck pulling me over to the plug or tree..

there has to be something in that .. so i cant see how misting could ever hurt...

but again i will try anything ,,,,,,,,, to many cold setup can bring on a bad case of depression
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 06:36 PM:
 
Okay, I have one badge left, who has the correct answer?
 

---

Posted by Inoculation (Member # 2229) on June 17, 2008, 06:38 PM:
 
I'm glad to see that the misting discussion is alive and well! I have no idea who the email-er is. I can't tell if he is full of himself or trying to be funny, or a bit of both. But to each his own I guess.

Matt
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 17, 2008, 07:20 PM:
 
Leonard, I don't have the answer but I really want that badge so I'll start a quiz and if you can't answer you can send me the badge.
Question:
Who is the renowned misting/decoy Guru pictured below?



 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 17, 2008, 07:23 PM:
 
I saw that pic a day or so ago, and then poof it was gone..
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 17, 2008, 07:54 PM:
 
Leonard,

I have my own badge, and plenty more of those patches.

But can you show a close up of everything else in the top left corner?
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on June 17, 2008, 07:59 PM:
 
I don't need no stinkin' BADGES!

George,

Misting is so much more than scent.
Think of your coyote pee, your sweat, and the bag of Doritos you ate on your breath, as parts per million (maybe billion or trillion).

Think of the mist as parts per hundred.

By atomizing the liquid, and sending it off downwind, it is hundreds of times more powerful than your "little puddle of piddle".

And when looking to evaluate misting, as to it's effectiveness, one needs to remember it's intended use.

It's not a magic trick, that will render a coyote's nose useless.
It's not meant to mesmerize a coyote, freezing it in it's tracks for an endless amount of time.

Misting is intended to give you a small amount of time... nothing more, and nothing less.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on June 17, 2008, 07:59 PM:
 
I guess the Pillsbury dough boy or Ozzie Osborne - what did I win?

[ June 17, 2008, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on June 17, 2008, 08:50 PM:
 
WOW

This has been quite the thread.

Me?

I have been saving half of the lunch money my wife gives me and soon I will have saved enough to get some "profeshunul" instruction from the "Coyote God" himself

Just sayin'

 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 09:02 PM:
 
Come on people! I have one more badge that I'm dying to give away! I gotta say, some of the guesses I am receiving are not that good and not that funny!

Okay, a little hint: he is not a current member. He was a very bad boy. I already said I only have five members that have had their posting privilages suspended.......(No, not Scott the ladder man)

Also, it's not Randy Buker, for sure. Me and him go back a long ways; I love the guy, I'm from Minnesota too.

Cripes, I'm practically giving it away!

Good hunting. LB

edit: right now, Kelley has the inside track on the consolation prize. (Ozzie)

[ June 17, 2008, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 09:13 PM:
 
I just read what Ackleyman wrote on PMS. A very good post. I didn't know he had hunted with Doug (Redding) in Mexico? So, there you go, he has seen mist and how it is used. No big mystery, and no doubt how effective it can be for a man with average intelligence. The guys that claim they don't need this advantage for various reasons, I just have to shake my head; they must be latent Democrats?

Big Bulletin. Sorry guys, it doesn't stink up the vehicle or anything else, unless you spill it inside, like Higgins did once. Also, don't spray it INTO the wind, or piss into the wind, for that matter....I need to draw some people a picture? I swear, some people sound like whiny brats with all the lame excuses they come up with!

Good hunting. LB

edit: does Ackleyman have a different handle, maybe one he uses on this Board?

edit: sorry Kelley. R Shaw just won most funny. Take another guess!

[ June 17, 2008, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on June 17, 2008, 09:33 PM:
 
dang Shaw can't win........that ain't right.... what was his guess??

I'm going to bed - have to find out tomorrow..

wait is was unknown - trying to blow your skirt up...

[ June 17, 2008, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 09:42 PM:
 
A couple of excerpts; emails from a troubled man.

quote:

---

.......did you ever figure out how to un-ban me? Will you be angry with me if I was already back, but with several other screen names? 3:09:23 P.M

---

quote:

---

Now lets get something straight. I am not on your board with any other screen name. 4:50:53 P.M.

---

edit, that's a good one, Kelley! If I had not already awarded the prize to R. Shaw, "unknown" would have rated at least a chuckle.

[ June 17, 2008, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 17, 2008, 09:43 PM:
 
A furry little animal that's a jackass, but not a jackass.
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 17, 2008, 10:16 PM:
 
Yeah, Dan's got it.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 17, 2008, 10:45 PM:
 
Higgins, you (and Dan) get things wrong all the time. Either you are getting old, or you just don't listen! You are supposed to submit entries via email.

Okay, that photo is of Les Johnson and he is nuzzling Anna, Byron South's pillow. So, I don't owe you a patch.

I'm getting light headed again. Somebody, please write me with the name of this jerk! edit: ****** oops!!

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 18, 2008, 06:02 AM:
 
"A furry little animal that's a jackass, but not a jackass"

That woulda been my guess.

Edit: Weasel kinda got slapped in a "which E-caller" Thread.

Edit again: write back to the E-mail and ask if HE would be mad if MOST of the banned PMS members are back, with many other names?

[ June 18, 2008, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: browning204 ]
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 18, 2008, 06:14 AM:
 
"does Ackleyman have a different handle, maybe one he uses on this Board?"

No. He does use his full name on the Go Go board though. I've talked to him on the phone and in email, and have hunted many times with one of his old partners. Real good guy, has more real world experience than most of the guys on some boards put together (not this one, of course). Danny really hit the nail on the head though, Ackleyman DOES need to get the hell outta Hickville!

Oh, I've got my guess on the mystery emailer, but have no use for a patch so not going to enter. But the answer seems way too easy anyway, to me?

Edit to add: My guess is different than Dan and Higgins. And I'm shocked that Higgins guess isn't the same as mine?

- DAA

[ June 18, 2008, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: DAA ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 09:28 AM:
 
Contest's over.

We have a three way tie for the last badge, my fault for not checking these last 30 entries sooner. Thanks for participating.

Greg Norman gets an honorable mention for his submission : Cal Taylor the bull rider and part time porn star.

Thanks. LB

edit: Yes, Dave. The answer IS way too easy. lol

[ June 18, 2008, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on June 18, 2008, 09:35 AM:
 
Greg Norman? Isn't he a golfer?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 09:40 AM:
 
Oops! My bad. Brad Norman, you are correct, and Greg Norman IS a golfer. That's a harder question than the question! LB
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 09:41 AM:
 
DAA please add your opinion on the 22-250 AI twist question. I'd like to know what you think about it. LB
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 09:56 AM:
 
I have another correction: Cal (with a moustache) according to his friend Greg, I mean Brad: only LOOKS like a porn star riding that bull! Sorry. But keep keeping me honest, I appreciate it. LB
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 18, 2008, 10:05 AM:
 
"DAA please add your opinion on the 22-250 AI twist question."

Nothing to add to what you already wrote there Leonard - I'm in complete agreement.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 18, 2008, 10:43 AM:
 
I just re-read the e-mail and I don't have a clue who it is. I don't know anyone that has ALL but one first place wins in contests. I don't recognize the writing style.
C'mon Leonard. Who is it?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 11:18 AM:
 
Rich, this question doesn't belong on the I.Q. test. The guy can't take a joke, and has a history of litigation, so I probably shouldn't just spit it out? Unless he would agree to a duel instead of a suit? Guess you will just have to be one of the very few left in the dark?

Good hunting. LB

edit: cripes! Have you seen the hits on the Misting thread, on PMS? Too bad they deleted about 20+ posts?
as of midnight, HM has only had about 1600? Well, that's why they are the 800 pound gorilla and we are small fry.

[ June 18, 2008, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 18, 2008, 12:03 PM:
 
Part time my ass.......
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 12:25 PM:
 
Oh shit! I just about fell off my chair!
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on June 18, 2008, 02:38 PM:
 
No part time to it. I am a porn star! At least in my own mind.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 02:49 PM:
 
Well, I just got off the phone with dogboy and we had a very frank conversation and I can say that I regret my previous comments. Especially since he doesn't recall events from seven years ago? I explained my recollections and he thought it sounded at least plausible? But, he did a good job of clearing the air and I appreciate the effort and respect the fact that he has the balls to do it. I'm sure he got my number out of the phone book? It's still listed, same number for 32 years, I'm not hiding from anybody. Pleasant conversation although I was probably ruder than necessary, to begin with, but he hung in there and he deserves credit for it. I also asked him to convey my regrets to his moderators for the little blow up.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 18, 2008, 06:17 PM:
 
Oh Leonard i got a P.M. and its addressed to you... What you want me to do with it???
I did'nt read it honest..

On another note i have to take a 30 day vacation from P.M.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 18, 2008, 07:24 PM:
 
You are a slow learner, Tim. Of course, I don't care that you posted something I said on PMS, but it sure caused a ruckus over there and apparently got you a suspension, which is kinda kid stuff, but that's their business?

What I find interesting is that somebody sends you a message for me? I mean, shit! Hello? They really want to get you in trouble, I guess? But what they don't know is I'm brothers with all Minnesotans, so I'd never ban a fraternal brother. But don't count on it.

They can't just send it directly to me and cut you out of it? Suggestion. Don't forward it, just delete it. If it's something important, they will figure out how to get it to me direct.

Good hunting. LB

[ June 18, 2008, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 18, 2008, 07:55 PM:
 
I think Weasel hit the wrong address or something.. I'll delete it right away...
I was'nt testing you Leonard, i did hear you say no the first time...
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on June 18, 2008, 09:26 PM:
 
Ya know what I like about this place??

Everyone is a bigger trouble maker than me

Hell..I'm damn near like one of those church goin' virgin types

Can't we all just get along???
 

---

Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on June 19, 2008, 02:13 AM:
 
I couldn't agree with you more mule.
Everywhere else I'm usually an instigator or at least in the middle of the fray.
Here I can come and just read and chuckle, it is refreshing.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on June 19, 2008, 04:30 AM:
 
Leonard and Tim,

I rec'd an e-mail from Weasel to Leonard yesterday as well.Was yours entitled "Respect" and begin with the three words, "Ya know, Leonard"?

I just figured it was a message to Leonard that was cc'd to the rest of us using Leonard's mailing address. It's a sad story he tells and my heart goes out to him, but there was no way for anyone, anywhere, to know anything about his issues.
 

---

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on June 19, 2008, 06:07 AM:
 
Well Leonard, You sure have been taking a lot of shots on the chin lately! Seen it on the coyote r us, the okie and on pm and who knows, maybe more? And all for telling it like it is or should be told. You might call a truce. but I see no reason for regrets and apologies. Apologies are owed to you my friend. IMHO

[ June 19, 2008, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 19, 2008, 08:03 AM:
 
Yeah, I got that one, Lance. That's really freaky. I guess he likes publicity, although I don't understand why anybody needs to do stuff like that. He might be one of those people that shouldn't be messed with, you never know what they will do?

I responded with this:

quote:

---

Umm, I thought I asked you to quit bothering me?

Well, seriously, I am sorry to hear about your wife's illness, believe me, I can appreciate the situation. Very few people know this but****************************. You can quit demanding retractions from me, it ain't going to work. Besides, don't you think you are overreacting a little bit? I blow off a lot of shit that people say about me. LB

---

Also, thanks, Dennis. LB
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 19, 2008, 10:54 AM:
 
I to feel for him and his wife with the illness, honestly. But the situation is not who has a tough life or a rocky road. The situation is the sh*t he pulls on people over at PM and by E-mail and on other boards. Does having a sick wife make you have to be a foxpro leg humper? Does that make it ok to shoot off demands and threats? Does it make it ok to ban people for not thinking the way he wants you to or write like he wants you to? If his life is that hard, maybe he should give up the Mod. status, if he can't handle it. Now he wants for us to play into his poor me game? Sorry, I am usually more understanding of things but I am not falling for it.

You know the saying, Respect is earned not given!
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on June 19, 2008, 11:08 AM:
 
Browning ,, weren't you up on the hunt in Maine
at Rodneys place in Stratton?????
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on June 19, 2008, 11:54 AM:
 
Yes, I went once, Why????
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 19, 2008, 05:52 PM:
 
Stay on topic please...
Porno cowboys, badges, patches piss and vinegar. Jeopardy, Bonaparte ladder dwellers, more piss, old people carving things? WTF!!!
My processor is all fk'd up trying to follow this shit...

I'll end with the proverbial wet blanket PM douche lament... "and what does this have to do with predator hunting!?"


[ June 19, 2008, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

---

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 19, 2008, 06:09 PM:
 
Yes Lance thats the same E-Mail i got.
I replyed by saying sorry to hear about the wife, and then stated he should be spending more time with her than the internet. Also said that Death smiles on us all, All we can do is smile back...
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 19, 2008, 11:08 PM:
 
Anybody heard from Bomba? Sorry Rich.
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 20, 2008, 07:11 AM:
 
Yep, Bomba is back on PM with his 18th post in 6 years. Not very active. Maybe he will stop by here.
No need to apologize to me, Leonard. I forgive you.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 20, 2008, 09:25 AM:
 
Hello? I'm excited. The twin is reaching out, Higgins! Accept the extended olive branch, meet at Starbucks, clear the air, embrace, but go no further! After the second date, bring him home and introduce him to the pack. You know ya wanna.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on June 20, 2008, 11:36 AM:
 
Twin? Now you're just being cruel. He knows he's welcome here. This pack doesn't dogpile. does it?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 20, 2008, 11:58 AM:
 
Okay, he's free to post. I miss him too. May the battle of wits continue.
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 28, 2008, 06:01 PM:
 
Your mom goes to college...
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 23, 2008, 07:10 PM:
 
Tony posted his views of the nature of the "urban coyote" on the PM thread. He prefaced it by stating that he "Doesn't know much about urban coyotes, but I do know a lot about urban deer." He then outlined habituated deer behavior, in winter conditions, that "may" parallel coyote behavior. I was especially intrigued by the "possibility" that answering a call with no negative result may incite a "feeding frenzy like chumming for sharks or a big dog bowl of corn for the deer" the next time the coyote heard a call.
The Dean of PU will provide a diploma for his graduates. I wonder if Biology 101 is in the curriculum?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 24, 2008, 01:02 AM:
 
Crikey, Higgins! That's some pretty lame stuff!

I mean; I don't know a lot about urban coyotes, but I do know a lot about strawberry Margaritas.

You can't be quoting him accurately?

(or somebody stole his password)

got link?
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 24, 2008, 05:36 AM:
 
Guys,
The thing about Tony that amazes me the most is the fact that he can't blow a call worth a hoot. Even his newest sound clips he has posted to advertise his new, yet to be released calls are pretty lame. I told him quite some time ago that his online howling seminar was the worst I had ever heard. I told him this in an honest attempt to help him improve. Higgins did an excellent job of killing my attempt, by posting that Tony did a real nice job in presenting the seminar. That isn't an exact quote of the famous "Higgins" post, but you guys get the general idea. I think Tony has good intentions, and probably makes good calls. It is becoming more and more clear however, that he has a tin ear. This it sad, because I believe Tony to be a nice guy with good intentions.

The famous Cronk VS Higgins howling contest taught ME a lot I think. My own recording methods, and quality of calling sounds have improved greatly since that contest, which I lost by the way. It is too bad that our friend Tony doesn't seem to recognize his own weakness.
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 24, 2008, 06:05 AM:
 
Mr Cronk - with all due respect.
Tony can make a call sing.
I hunted with him nearly a week last year and he called over half the stands. In the open air his howls and distress sounded good.

Now when I listened to the clips he posted last night....I plan on calling him today.

Regards
Kelly
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 24, 2008, 06:11 AM:
 
"Mr Cronk - with all due respect.
Tony can make a call sing."
--------------------------------
Kelly,
I am happy to hear that his actual calling sounds better than those lame clips he posted. I'm also glad that you are going to talk to him. Somebody need to. If he is going to post a sound clip of a Jackrabbit distress, it should probably SOUND like a jackrabbit. Now his present jackrabbit clip DOES have a nice sounding puppy distress at the end of said clip.
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 24, 2008, 06:04 PM:
 
I'm not the worlds best callin' man
but I know what I am
and HE sounds like shit
not shinola, shine, shine, shinola

Urban deer and coyotes are one and the same. Same prey base, same daily movements.
Urban squirrels, turkeys, racoons and skunks exhibit the same exact behavior as well.

[ July 24, 2008, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 24, 2008, 07:55 PM:
 
Rich, I don't remember the howling seminar that you refer to so I naturally don't remember praising him although I certainly don't doubt it. I try to encourage and support anyone that I can... until they add fuel to a fire that is roasting me, especially with such lameness as he posted there. I'll try to learn how to post a specific post link rather than a general thread link and spare everyone the soap drama that thing was embedded in.
 

---

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on July 24, 2008, 07:56 PM:
 
Thats funny a large red frog told me that the coyotes around my place are no more wild than an unruly pet. and the Jist of the thread was that anyone can call em and take pictures which in turn will make them eat children.That place is turning into a fountain of knowledge yup usless knowledge. I wonder if they understand the consequences of running bulshit has on new comers to the coyote boards.kinda irresponsible to say the least.I was attempting to get them to see the harm in what they were presenting to all callers urban, wild, or whatever they failed to get it.
Although Uncle Jay siad if that was the implication maybe that thread should be pulled. I agree !
wach out for the urban deer the could attack a nearby school any day now there just like coyotes dontcha know.
 

---

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 24, 2008, 08:27 PM:
 
Being the happy idiot I am when it comes to coyote hunting. I would suggest logic would tell me, the toads "wild" unpressured coyotes are probably far easier to call than the sly,savvy urban coyotes. Just because coyotes can be seen trotting down the city streets and seem to have little regard for people, I think they are probably more wary than one would think at first blush?
Conversely, a wild, unpressured canadian coyote, should by rights,just come pounding in when it hears the rabbit wails....make any sense Professor Higgins, or am I out in left field?
 

---

Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on July 24, 2008, 08:29 PM:
 
The only good frog is a frog on the end of a gig!
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 24, 2008, 09:12 PM:
 
Vic, you are spot on and I posted precisely that same statement last year to Guess concerning his enthusiastic virgin eared coyotes behind the locked gates of the Texas ranches that those boys call on and to Redfrog about his unmolested wilderness coyotes. Neither one of them has any experience calling urban coyotes yet both have strong opinions about them. "Tame" and "civilized" are not adjectives that a person with any knowledge of coyotes would apply to free coyotes. A coyote is a coyote regardless of his zipcode and the coyotes security level dictates his wariness. That security level is influenced by the coyotes personality, his most recent experiences, probably his social status and 15,000 years of evolution. A knowledgeable person certainly wouldn't equate any coyote behavior with that of yarded deer. PU is an appropriate name.
An interesting side note: OJ said that he could tell from all of the pics that Scott and I posted that we hadn't left the city limits. I'm really surprised that he couldn't (at least didn't admit) recognize his favorite honeyhole, Hyder, Az. The pics of the coyotes attacking the decoy and caller were photographed out there. The more remote coyotes were more aggressive to the deke and caller than the coyotes within the city boundaries.
I was out in Hyder again Sunday morning and between 5:30 and 10:00 AM I had five coyotes within easy and certain shotgun range and another three, on three different stands, that circled at a leisurely pace a hundred or so yards out. Easy rifle shots. We will be hitting that area for the first club hunt in Sept.
Jim Schmidt and Russ Fiel handle the urban coyote complaints for WS and they both have great respect for the TAME city coyotes. Redfrog and Guess should apply for the job and show WS how it is done. Of course John-Henry tried that and it didn't work out so well.
 

---

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 25, 2008, 12:17 AM:
 
"...the Jist of the thread was that anyone can call em and take pictures which in turn will make them eat children."

Exactly.

The obvious motive behind the thread was to discredit Higgins and his photos by claiming that his photography is irresponsible and endangering kids. Some of the posters were clueless about that. A few me-tooers chimed in after they tested the wind and joined the dominant crowd.

[ July 25, 2008, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 25, 2008, 05:00 AM:
 
Interesting point, Vic. Leads me to recall a discussion I have had on several occasions with a certain highly respected sandhills caller who shall remain nameless about the difference between the callability of my coyotes here versus those he sings to. In each instance, he has, at some point, stated that if his coyotes were as uncooperative as are mine, he'd find something else to do. More importantly, he and I both have agreed that the one differentiating factor between his and mine is that fact that by the time he calls them in the fall or winter, many of his coyotes have yet to ever encounter a human being whereas mine are born and raised around them. Frog's Canadian coyotes versus Rich's urban coyotes would seem, to me, to be an even more extreme version of that very scenario.
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 25, 2008, 07:02 AM:
 
My whole approach to hunting coyotes is essentially based on a strong belief in what Vic said above.

I put most of my hunting effort into finding unsophisticated coyotes to call. They're easy. My experience tells me that if I can play my rabbit recording to virgin eared coyotes, they readily come.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 25, 2008, 07:40 AM:
 

quote:

---

The obvious motive behind the thread was to discredit Higgins and his photos by claiming that his photography is irresponsible and endangering kids. Some of the posters were clueless about that. A few me-tooers chimed in after they tested the wind and joined the dominant crowd.

---

quote:

---

The obvious motive behind the thread was to discredit Higgins and his photos by claiming that his photography is irresponsible and endangering kids. Some of the posters were clueless about that. A few me-tooers chimed in after they tested the wind and joined the dominant crowd.

---

I also seen that from the start of that post he put up..

[ July 25, 2008, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 25, 2008, 12:33 PM:
 
Cripes, it's hard to believe that grown men can be so friggin' petty!

I found that thread all by myself, but thanks for the damned link I never got, Higgins!!!!!

I'm sorry, but I was only able to wade through the first three pages late last night but I was astounded by a few. Of course weasel but I promised not to pick on him anymore, but this yahoo redfrog's logic reads like an idiot. It sure seems like everybody has chosen sides very predictably?

It seems like I touched on this somewhere else, but the obvious has been overlooked? I'm typing slowly, (which is the only way I know how) so try to follow along, all you lurkers.

When a coyote enters our domain, he knows exactly what he is doing. He expects to see humans and is frequetly very casual about it. I disagree with one poster over there that claims that the urban coyotes live right under the front porch. Around here, they may linger in the bushes overnight, or for days, but they seek the protection of the canyons that run straight up into the mountains. At least here in Southern California, they don't live here in the communities but they know their way around, in and out. I don't really have to explain that any further, I hope?

But, I digress. If you think that calling tame city coyotes is child's play, I have some startling news for the PM peanut gallery. Why don't you try it instead of speculating about something you obviously do not have a clue?

And, (Nistetter is now called "OJ"?) what the hell has he been smoking? Higgins has singlehandedly contributed to an epidemic of coyote attacks on infants because he is calling around houses and it's like ringing a dinner bell?

First of all, he doesn't need me to defend what he does, but I have a little knowledge and he is not calling in tame city coyotes , at all. It's primarily rural coyotes, just like Kansas or Iowa. Yes, you may see a ranch in the background, or houses near by, but (HELLO) this is the new Arizona, urban sprawl all over the place, and I doubt that these coyotes spend 5% of their time cruising front yards looking to steal babies because Higgins is honking on a call? Sure, they own the night, but hopefully, your children are inside watching FOX News after dark?

Now, on the one hand, I happen to know a little bit about wilderness versus urban predator hunting. On the other hand, just because this guy SAYS he knows about tame city coyotes, his statements tell me that he is talking out of his ass. (remember, typing slowly) A coyote is never going to be tame, ... and easily called. (ask Cal) I will give Guess a pass because I have not read anything he has said on the subject. It is my considered opinion that any pen raised coyote is about ten minutes away from being a wild coyote. The only thing you accomplish by calling a coyote and not killing him is to make it that much more difficult to call him the next time. yeah, I know that it is done every day, but do not try to earn a living off of calling and killing previously called coyotes.

This has to be all a huge joke, these guys must know they are talking out of their ass? I will tell you right now, it makes PM and the Foxpro Mafia (one and the same) look silly. (most polite word that comes to mind)

Damn, it's nice to have so many keyboard experts!

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 25, 2008, 02:56 PM:
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The obvious motive behind the thread was to discredit Higgins and his photos by claiming that his photography is irresponsible and endangering kids.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
I also seen that from the start of that post he put up..
-------------------------------------------

Yes, George, you did, and it was funny to watch. Speaking the truth on that could get you banned, however.

[ July 25, 2008, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 25, 2008, 03:08 PM:
 
I love to hunt the urban coyote.
We haven't established just what makes an urban coyote urban, though. What does the human population have to be to make coyotes urban. 1500 per sq mile or so in the county i live in. city by city or counties as a whole?
Towny coyotes and village coyotes are easy to hunt...

That thread kind of fizzled out before my posts could be trampled by the masses.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 25, 2008, 03:43 PM:
 
smithers, if you are feeling dizzy, put your head between your knees for a few minutes.

Anybody follow what he said?
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 25, 2008, 04:38 PM:
 
What do each of you consider urban? That is the question.
Are you lumping suburban and urban coyotes together?

Do you have to be at the corner of MLK Jr. & Rosa Parks Blvd. to be considered hunting urban coyotes? If ya catch my drift.
Ghettoyotes or The Jonesoyotes...
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 26, 2008, 03:45 AM:
 
Leonard and Higgins, Now you guys realize that DAA, Rich C, and I are part of the "FoxPro mafia" as you called it. Does that mean we can't hang out over here with the Minaska midgets?

[ July 26, 2008, 03:59 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 26, 2008, 06:05 AM:
 
3 Toes,
Ya don't reckon they will mess with us "mafia" members do ya?
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on July 26, 2008, 07:22 AM:
 
"FoxPro mafia" "the Minaska midgets"

this is great
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 26, 2008, 08:29 AM:
 
foxpro wouldn't make a pimple on the mafia's ass. Matter of fact they are only a pain in the ass, but not mine, I own a Minaska and a WT and 50 hand calls.
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 26, 2008, 08:36 AM:
 
I normally just stay out of this kind of stuff. And I'm only going to make just this one comment here, then return to my normal policy of staying out of it.

But, I really, REALLY do NOT appreciate the general bashing of Foxpro or us field staff members.

I've had the Dillon's in my home. I've hunted with them. They are my friends. Chickenshit name calling like this does nothing but diminish my opinion of the chickenshit name callers.

In other words - Dan Carey, **** you, ass hole.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 26, 2008, 08:44 AM:
 
I don't care what you think!!

I might add, that I do care what most others think of me. I have NO dissatisfied customers, zero, because I do whatever it takes to make them happy.

I will tell this much of a long story concerning the foxpro That I owned.

At the end of 2004 I purchased a foxpro model 532 with all the upgrades they offered including their bag for it. The total cost was about $585 if I remember correctly.

Within a couple of months they brought out the FX3 series of callers, which in effect immediately made the 532 obsolete and the 532 was soon discontinued.

I didn't like the 532 from the first day I owned it, I therefore used it very little, it was in as-new condition when I sold it for less than half ($250.00) what it cost a few months earlier. In a conversation with Mike Dillon, which lasted for over an hour, Mike told me they had the right to upgrade their callers and a lot of the 532 were sold just prior to the FX3 being released. I can and do see his point of view, I just don't agree with emptying the warehouse with product that will be obsolete without telling the buyers what's going on.

I lost 335.00 dollars on that one experience with foxpro within 3-4 months, did I like it? I can say without a doubt, I will never get over it, until the make it right.

If not liking foxpro makes one an asshole, I have a lot of company, good company at that.

[ July 26, 2008, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

---

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 26, 2008, 08:54 AM:
 
If I may, let me butt in for a second. I really appreciate Dave, Cal and for that matter Watson and couple of others that share their knowledge of guns, coyote, dogs and everything that goes with predator hunting. Huge wealth of knowledge without expense and no sales pitch in every post, not even trying to push their own products.

Thanks, Dennis
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2008, 09:51 AM:
 
Hey Dave,

Don't get excited, Amigo. I have "known" you for a long time and think you are first class, as is Cal Taylor and Rich Cronk. If it was me that used a term that offended you, I apologize? As far as I know it was the first time the expression has passed my lips?

I think everybody knows that there is a certain element over at PM that marches in lockstep? Perhaps the same could be said about this place, although I/we try very hard to maintain independence from commercial endorsements, etc.?

PM has a large footprint, as does Foxpro. HM is just a little hobby project, never made a dime of profit, so this page exists for no other purpose than stroking my ego, or (to be more charitable, perhaps?) as a contribution and service to our sport, from this source of very modest means.

Make no mistake though, there are a few folks, of which, I question their motivation (or market share domination) so we will just have to agree to disagree on a (very) few, and minor things....which is inevitable, I suppose?

Here is the thing, in a nutshell. Every member of Huntmasters can express their opinion, confident that their post will not be edited or deleted. Every member can comment on another member's opinion. As Dan did; and as you just did. This is either a unique privilege, or a huge problem, depending on a person's attitude.

In summation. We favor free speech whenever possible. We have been censored before, and do not like it.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 26, 2008, 11:25 AM:
 
Leonard, you did not offend me. I took your comments to be made in a good natured way, not meant to be personal and not meant to be offensive.

Dan made his comments with intent to be personal and intent to offend. He succeeded. He's a worthless prick, as far as I'm concerned. And I just decided to share that view.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2008, 11:47 AM:
 
Big relief, Dave. I would not want to offend you. LB
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 26, 2008, 12:32 PM:
 
I can understand your animosity towards me. Mike more or less told me, they thought I had cost them some sales. I don't know if that is true or not, but that's their opinion, and they are welcome to it. I do know however, little spats like these concerning FP tend to make it (me) worse.

Now that you have said what an ass hole you think I am and what a worthless prick you think I am, on their behalf, I may just try my best to do what it is they already think I do. They will be tickled to hear what you've done for them, I'm sure they'll thank you for that. Mike and I had a half-assed deal, that is until now.

As far as getting down in the mud and slinging shit with the hogs, I'll pass.
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 26, 2008, 12:40 PM:
 
No offence here either Leonard. I was just making what I thought was a humerous comment. (note smiley face). As for the rest I think I will follow the advice of Dan Careys sig line.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 26, 2008, 12:49 PM:
 
Back in 2003, I bought a brand spanking new Dodge 4x4 pickup truck. A couple of months later they came out with the 2004 model, which in effect made my 2 month old truck obsolete. I could have sold it I suppose, but then I would have had to sell at a loss of a few thousand dollars. What a bunch of money hungry butt heads those Chrysler people are. How dare they upgrade their trucks without letting me know first! I had the same problem with Nissan a few times, and the same with Chevy and Ford. What a bunch of money grabbing commy's! I was gonna switch to Toyota, just to teach all of those other companies a lesson, but then a neighbor told me that Toyota had done the very same thing to HIM.. I just don't know what we are gonna do, my fellow PakMan friends. Anybody know of a company who does not upgrade their products from time to time? I could use some help here.
 

---

Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on July 26, 2008, 01:05 PM:
 
Rich very well said
 

---

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 26, 2008, 01:41 PM:
 
Yep everybody upgrades or at least they try... but what if you had a new truck on order and they kept backordering it until you finaly just canceled the order? Then about 2 months later a package arrives at your door and it's the old model. You get on the phone and figure out you might as well keep it. The salesman told you it could be upgraded.

So you set out and first thing you see is a recall, then you offer a few ideas that they have already been working on and they say send it in, we'll fix it up.

Six months down the road they try to charge you extra money for an upgrade to a caller, ummm truck that you canceled to begin with so you could get next years model in the first place. The new owner decides to "eat" the cost and sends it out. Two more trips back to the shop due to problems and you finaly sell it at a loss to escape the aggrivation.

Moral of the story, everyone has problems from time to time and evidently I don't need an e-caller, umm truck but I sure don't need all the groupies telling me it's raining.
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 26, 2008, 02:05 PM:
 
It might be noted that EVERY year, in the fall, ALL of the automobile manufacturers bring to the market, their new line of CARS, not to be confused with predator callers. You know apples and oranges?
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on July 26, 2008, 02:33 PM:
 
At this point I don't even know most of there pros or field staff

but I will not own anything that Glenn guess has a association with , I don't like him, I think he talks out his ass, and I believe everyone can see it, and if foxpro will get a guy like that on there staff then I think less of them as a hole nothing to do with there call... I no I am a nobody but I guide many guys each year and they will not here of foxpro from me,,

Glenn is much like Obama,, he will tell you what he thinks you wont to here even if he knows nothing about the subject matter,,, he is a bolt face story teller ,,with good writing skills....
He is out there misleading people and carrys foxpro in his sig line

[ July 26, 2008, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 26, 2008, 02:48 PM:
 
Glad to hear it George, old buddy. It's always good to know where your pals stand on issues. I was still looking forward to you coming out for that guided antelope hunt you talked to me about, but now I will know not to look for your deposit check anytime soon.

And I assume my FoxPro discount club card isn't good at Careys custom guns either!
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 26, 2008, 03:03 PM:
 
Your discount card will be honored.

It would be my pleasure to build you a rifle. Call anytime you have a project in mind.

I don't worry about the small shit or the shitheads, and others shouldn't either.
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on July 26, 2008, 03:11 PM:
 
I didn't even know you where 3toes when we spoke,when i said,,,(I don't know most of there pros or field staff) .my meaning was, I don't know most of them personally ,, I have met Byron and have nothing agents him as i have wrote so many time on the boards ,
my gripe is with Glen Guess and foxpro for having a guy like him around ..

to tell you the truth now I know who you are am wondering why guys of you caliber would consider having name associated with his ,,

and I thought I sent you a e-mail saying i wasn't going antelope this year because I am going on a coyote hunting road trip that will end at the camp out ...

please under stand that I have no trouble with you or most of the guys the rep foxpro ,my feeling lie with FULL OF SHIT Glenn and fox pro management ..

no I don't promote foxpro elec.calls for that reason ....
And if we cant be pals because i am no pro foxpro then i am sorry to hear it

[ July 26, 2008, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

---

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 26, 2008, 03:15 PM:
 
Edited to say, wow, a lot of posts since I started this, so some repeats what others have said.

DAA, thank you for you comment on name calling. I don’t care for the name calling either, though the FoxPro Mafia and Minaska Midgets is funny, and I’ve stooped to such shorthand myself a few times. What I dislike even more is the constant harassment by some FP staff and owners, which earned them the nickname.

I don’t recall a trace of that in you or Cal, and appreciate it. At least on this forum so far we can speak freely about calls and comment on our likes and dislikes. We can agree or disagree without accusations, insults, innuendo, having our words twisted or deleted, and threats of banning. The hard words about FP on this forum are because much milder comments would be banned on the site where this started, and have been.

When folks bash FoxPro, don’t take it personally. It is a reaction to a vocal portion of FP owners and field reps who are simply obnoxious. The same is true of some of us who own other calls, though we are a smaller, loose-knit group. It will be hard not to be polarized into one group or the other but rising above that mess is eventually the only way out of the name calling part of the problem. Meanwhile, when we stand near people who get tomatoes thrown at them, we may get hit by the splash, even when it isn’t aimed at us.

The other part of the problem makes an interesting business case study. The PM forum has allowed/chosen to have one advertiser control and dominate what posters can say. I think that will turn out to be a bad business decision but I could be wrong. I’m sure it looks good to FP staff. It seems like a serious mistake to allow any one advertiser to control an independent media outlet, be it magazine or internet forum. The equivalent would be for Outdoor Life to have over half of its masthead people also on Remington's payroll, then use the whole magazine to tout Remington and diss any competitor. Some of the reaction to FP is a reaction to the blatant cheerleading and heavy handed censorship by the FoxPro moderators.

[ July 26, 2008, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2008, 03:25 PM:
 
That's very well put, ok.

In fact, it is not a blanket slam against every man on Foxpro's prostaff, it is about those Foxpro prostaff that moderate on the PM board and control the dialogue......nother word for censorship.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 26, 2008, 04:25 PM:
 
Cal,

Sounds like you are going to have a week with out a hunter, right about the time of the Campout.

You need to swing down through SLC, pick up Dave and Tim and head on down.

A few evenings sitting around the campfire, with a belly full of good food and cold beer, just shooting the shit with a bunch of coyote hunters will create some of the best memories of your lives. Typing on these boards can be a lot of fun, cheap entertainment, but you can't beat the friendship and camaraderie that you will find for just those few days each fall.
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 26, 2008, 05:27 PM:
 
Thats a good idea Tim, and it may work out yet this year.
As for Predator Masters, most of you know, but for those that don't I haven't posted there for at least a couple years. It has nothing to do with FoxPro but with the assholes that run the place. After a 30 day manditory sabbatical that I still don't feel I deserved I was invited back and I not so politley told them to hang it in their ass. I'm still on FoxPros field staff. One has nothing to do with the other. I posted this in another thread a while back but I'll clarify again, FoxPro makes no requirements on who I like or don't. I have friends on both FoxPro and Minaskas field staffs. FoxPro has a great product (and I'm sure Minaska does also) and I really can't say who or why they pick to be on their field staff, but I know that I am happy to represent them and to try and help them make their sounds, product, and business better. As far as I'm concerned someones personal beefs with other members of the field staff has nothing to do with me personally and for the most part I think the members here feel the same way. I don't care what brand of call Leonard has, I've met him and spent a little time with him and he's a great guy, as is Higgins, Les Johnson and a few others I know use Minaska. I really don't give a crap what they use. I don't lump them together with all Minaska users and say that they are all crappy individuals because they use and support Minaska, so therefor I expect the same in return and up till now that has been the case here at Huntmasters. I really hate to see the petty crap that goes on at Predator Masters spill over here on Leonards board because the lack of that crap is what makes this place enjoyable. I hope that makes my position clear!
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2008, 06:12 PM:
 
I'd like to see you attend, this year, Cal. Hope it works out for ya.

There is no concerted effort to diss everybody that is associated with Foxpro; you know that.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on July 26, 2008, 07:25 PM:
 
Damn,

This thread went south

I was slow to get on the internet. But finally I did and the first place I landed was a site called Bark at The Moon.

DAA and a guy name Frank GJ were the first guys to talk to me.

I was amazed...I'm not the only one who really like calling coyotes??...COOL!

Back then I was hunting alot more than I am now but I did learn things..it was great

Then I landed at another board..I think it was called Predator Posse. Awesome board.

I got wind of this thing called a WT.

It was expensive. But my wife prides herself on urging me to buy crap I really don't need but will make me happy. So I ordered a WT.

All kinds of folks turned on me and I ended up defending myself for trying to buy such a expensive caller.

Because obviously I knew jack shit

And then Bill martz decided he couldn't get a product out after 10 months. Wouldn't answer my calls or Emails.

Until I got fed up and said I was no longer interested and then the WT guys climbed on my ass.

I can't win but then again that is kind of my lifes story

Then I find out that PM doesn't like people who shoot coyotes during calving season. Well they didn't then. But now its cool...go figure.

This argung about caller brands is about as stupid as guys getting in fights over GM vs Ford or Coors vs Bud.

Just my two cents
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 26, 2008, 07:56 PM:
 
Absolutely Leonard! Just for the record it was a few other members of FoxPros field staff that helped to get me temporarily (which I made permanently) banned from PM. It ain't exactly all hugs and kisses. One of them was the same member that George has a problem with. That still takes nothing away from the Dillons and their products. Just some differences of opinion.
 

---

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on July 26, 2008, 08:12 PM:
 
George. Guess is the first reason that I don't like foxcrap. PM is the #2 reason. The #3 reason is because I have used them many times and I think they sound like shit!

But then again, my first caller is a WT so I was kind of spoiled from the get go.

Guess and some others on the foxcrap staff, along with PM mods are ignorant people. If you don't do it with a foxcrap or do it like they do it in TX then your a bum.

Write what we tell you to write and follow who we follow or else! pretty sad, they think that they are all that.
 

---

Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on July 26, 2008, 08:55 PM:
 
Ahh for the good ole days when it was just Gerald and Bill!
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2008, 11:38 PM:
 
Look guys, I'm famous! Eat your heart out, John Henry!
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 27, 2008, 08:27 AM:
 
=========================
I can understand your animosity towards me. Mike more or less told me, they thought I had cost them some sales. I don't know if that is true or not, but that's their opinion, and they are welcome to it. I do know however, little spats like these concerning FP tend to make it (me) worse.

Now that you have said what an ass hole you think I am and what a worthless prick you think I am, on their behalf, I may just try my best to do what it is they already think I do. They will be tickled to hear what you've done for them, I'm sure they'll thank you for that. Mike and I had a half-assed deal, that is until now.
===================================

That is just ridiculous. You're an egomaniac too. Nobody from Foxpro has ever mentioned you to me in any way. Why would they? Until yesterday, I had never spoken one word about you with anyone, for any reason, ever. I'm not involved in any of the crap of which you speak. My "animosity" towards you started yesterday when I read your insults. Never had one thought about you one way or the other, before that.

My "animosity" towards you has absolutely nothing to do with callers, brands, sales etc. Absolutely NOTHING. It is based solely on the words you typed and the insults you flung at my friends the Dillon's. Period. I could not possibly care less what brand of caller you or anyone else uses. It just does not matter to me, at all. Never has. And ANYONE who has been following these boards for ANY length of time, will attest to that fact. Go find me one post that I have ever made, anywhere, where I've indicated the slightest interest in who uses what or why. You can't. Because I never have.

To be perfectly clear - THIS IS NOT A "SPAT CONCERNING FP" . Dragging Foxpro into this is nothing but ego on your part. Caller brands and companies have NOTHING to do with my part in this except in your mind. This is nothing more than me telling you, that I don't appreciate your insults. No companies involved. No caller brands. NONE OF THAT STUPID SHIT. It's ME, Dave Affleck telling YOU, Dan Carey what I think of you and your insults.

If you want to go on fantasizing that you are important enough for busy, successful people with a large business to run, to take time out of their day to talk about you. Go ahead. It's pure fantasy though.

This is my favorite board of any kind, on all the internet. But I'm not making it better right now. And reading some of the pile ons from the totally ignorant, make me feel like I could easily go off and make it much worse. And it would not be totally because of what is going on here - it's as much my state of mind due to events in other areas that has me so touchy right now. I don't regret what I've posted so far, but am afraid I might post more, that I would regret. So I'm taking a month off from this place. I'll be back around when it gets closer to calling season.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 27, 2008, 10:22 AM:
 
Leonard,

I'm truly sorry about my first post concerning the foxpro mafia on your site, I realize it was in bad taste to vent my anger of being screwed by the foxpro mafia. I wrote and posted it, without a thought, of the fact it might hurt you or your memberships feelings. Inasmuch as I don't normally post here, although I do read the threads daily, I should have not become involved in the thread, nor become interactive with the childish egotistical poster that subsequently ensued.

Thanks, Dan

[ July 29, 2008, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2008, 12:27 PM:
 
Don't worry about it, Dan. I'm not. Apology accepted.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on July 27, 2008, 03:48 PM:
 
Damn Leonard! Where in the hell did you find that site you self stroking **** ? Again, it's nothing but a bunch of pussies who are afraid to post their names and locations. Those are the cunts I disregard in the begining.

Cal - If the campout actually works out for you this year let me know. I really want to go.

Edited to ask "Why did my first **** not make it but my second one did?"

[ July 27, 2008, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Brad Norman ]
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 27, 2008, 03:59 PM:
 
I was permanently banned from PM because of my posts in support of Minaska and a couple of posts that questioned Nistetter's sigline.
I coined the name Foxpro Mafia to amuse myself as I took an occasional poke at 8 members of the Foxpro staff that have a history of dog piling me for personal reasons and anyone that was critical of FP or complimentary toward Minaska. Before doing so I called and talked to DAA and Cal because I have enormous respect for these guys and truly value their friendship. A close friend of mine, Gerry Blair, is on the field staff, as is Gary Madison of Oregon who impresses Gerry with his knowledge. FP has some true heavyweights on their staff. Most probably aren't even aware of the little bitch hassle that some of the FP people and I annoy each other with. Foxpro makes a very good product, (especially the Scorpion and their other Minaska copy ) and Cal and Dave have provided them with what are probably the best sounds available. However the FP management buys influence and political clout with advertising in the mags and on the forums. They provide free callers to moderators and sweet distribution deals to others in positions of authority. All very good business practices. Those that compete on that very slanted and biased playing field are understandably resentful when that big machine runs rough shod over us. Plain and simple.
Rich Higgins
Title: Minaska Midget/Field Staff.
Location: Holiday Inn
Turn Ons: Cal, Dave, Gerry and some other FP staff and associates
Turn Offs: FoxPro Mafia
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 27, 2008, 04:51 PM:
 
Aw shit Rich,

I was really hoping to talk Dave and Cal into coming to the Campout this year.

But now that you have publicly proclaimed that they Turn you on, I'll probably never get to finally meet them face to face.

Couldn't you have found some other way to proclaim your admiration, with out sounding so Brokeback?
 

---

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on July 27, 2008, 04:52 PM:
 
The hole URBAN COYOTE thread was only posted to try and discredit Rich, by discrediting Rich you then discredit the call he was using, witch wasn't a foxpro at the time,
I don't care what people think that's what I seen,
Ok then If this scenario isn't true, then why did Jay and others have to adjust there thought on educated coyote to fit there agenda in that post...

Jay starts the post buy insinuating coyotes would remember the sounds, And by regularly getting called in and not killed it also would acerbate them being more aggressive and eating children,,,

also, the post went up as soon as Rich & Jay started talking about Jays sig line.

ok why do i say this and think this

well in past threads on educated coyotes Jay has said thing like

I don't believe coyote are capable of remembering.
and his famous (( dog an screen door story ))

and I direct you to old sig line of his

((Never once have I called in a coyote and wondered if he came in because it was Tuesday and normally hunters don't come out their way mid-week.))

but like jay once said,

"I'll tell you everything I know and gladly make up the rest."

I personally have nothing agenst jay,
just that I don't like to see friend talked ill of even if its by friends

[ July 27, 2008, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2008, 04:59 PM:
 
Tim, they turn me on, too.

As Ron White would say; "I never knew that about myself?"
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 27, 2008, 05:43 PM:
 
Believe it or not I have those days open, I have to be back by the 15th to guide some antelope hunters, so flying is the only option. But with the looming threat of Higgins licking me in one ear and Brad Norman in the other, I'm not sure if I'm up to the challenge. I wasn't planning on sleeping much anyway, but now it absolutely isn't an option.

Anyhoo, a bedroll and a change of clothes is about all I'd look at bringing. What is the nearest airport?
 

---

Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on July 27, 2008, 07:52 PM:
 
There ain't going to be any licking anywhere! Especially if Higgins is involved! If I knew where this damn campout was, maybe I could find the nearest airport.

As far as FP and Minaska, a good friend of mine gave me his old FP years ago. It has worked flawlessly when I needed it. Much like my old truck, I have resisted the temptation to upgrade. However, if any of you midgets want to ship me your old worn out Minaska, I will gladly conduct a bipartisan analysis and post my results on huntmasters for all to see.
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 27, 2008, 08:30 PM:
 

quote:

---

There ain't going to be any licking anywhere! Especially if Higgins is involved!

---

Thank you for the support, Brad. I appreciate the vote of confidence. No wonder the coyotes around Gillette are nervous.
Cal, fly in on Thursday. Tyler and I will pick you up at the airport and take you to the club meeting with us. Les Johnson is speaking, maybe Ralph Lermayer. Clevenger, Carey, and Les will all be driving their vehicles from the meeting to the campout. You can ride along with whomever you want.. You can ride back with us and we will get you to the airport on time.
 

---

Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on July 27, 2008, 08:35 PM:
 
You know I'm joking? If I can get in around the same time, can I get a ride?
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 27, 2008, 09:21 PM:
 
Absolutely!
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 27, 2008, 09:27 PM:
 
OK Tim, enough time has passed that I can talk to you about this. I think. Never mind.
I will try to make up for it at the ATA Convention Sat. I'll introduce you and Vic to the featured speaker, John-Henry... Coyote God.
Will we be square then?
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 27, 2008, 10:04 PM:
 
Rich,

I'm picking Vic up at 5 AM, we don't want to miss any of it!

Edit: Were you going to tell me that John-Henry turns you on too?

[ July 27, 2008, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2008, 10:05 PM:
 
...will you introduce me, as well? As long as you got my back.

Thanks!

[ July 27, 2008, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2008, 10:59 PM:
 
Okay, okay, a clue. The asshole mouthing off over there under Blob is extremely fat, in poor health and looks stupid. Email me your guesses. Get it right and you get a swell Arizona Predator Posse patch.
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 28, 2008, 04:28 AM:
 
You guys are funny, you tell a guy to come down, but you won't tell him where to fly in to! I see how you operate when you really don't want someone to show up. Sure your invited! Try and find us!
 

---

Posted by yuccabush (Member # 582) on July 28, 2008, 04:53 AM:
 
You will have to fly into skyharbor in Phoenix I think.
 

---

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 28, 2008, 05:50 AM:
 
I don't know the days they depart, you might check into alligant air out of Rapid City to Mesa or to Vegas. Competive fares and good daily deals on compact cars. Might even be able to find a package deal to vegas and forget about using the room.

Dennis
 

---

Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on July 28, 2008, 05:53 AM:
 
Sky Harbor is where we fly into.

If Higgins is transporting you to and from the Airport, there will be no worries. If you are getting a rental car, good luck, they screwed things up for us a couple times now.

JD
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 28, 2008, 06:02 AM:
 
I don't want no stinkin' patch but is it Pauly Shore a.k.a. the weasel...
E-mail takes too much effort...
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 28, 2008, 07:04 AM:
 
Cal, Sky Harbor in PHX. It's just 20 minutes away from the lab. Cheaper if you book a flight in on Wed. 8, spend the night at our place, ( my family and Les will chaperon your ears). Spend Thurs. at the lab with us, Les, Dan Carey, and probably a couple of others. We'll buy you a shrimp burrito for lunch. All part of the package. Fly out on Mon. 13. Maybe J.D. can make it again this year. Norm, you too.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 28, 2008, 07:25 AM:
 
I just E mailed my guess regarding the Fat and ugly blob on the Blog.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 08:39 AM:
 
No correct guesses, thus far. Rocky Mountain High, in..........

edit: also. the malcontents are bitching about this boring format, etc. I stumbled across something they would like: http://www.sassypageturners.com/
I could put up some cute gingham curtains and Winnie the Poo avitars. What do you think?

[ July 28, 2008, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 09:25 AM:
 
WE HAVE A WINNER!

edit: oh shit! I see where I left a huge clue, above? No wonder!

further edit: Hmm? I have never seen J Holly, but many of our guessers thought he fit the description?

[ July 28, 2008, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 28, 2008, 11:39 AM:
 
"WE HAVE A WINNER!"
Hmmmmmmmm I know that the adminsitrator doesn,t like summer coyote hunting. It can't be Higgins or John-Henry because they ain't fat. Ugly yes, but not fat. It can't be Vic because he ain't fat, and has too much pride to hide out in a secret Blob to say what he thinks. Who the heck IS it then?
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 28, 2008, 11:43 AM:
 
I resent your implication, Cronk!
I am too fat.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 11:49 AM:
 
Geeze, I need to draw you a picture? Everybody else has figured it out with one word: UGLY!
But, you have to be pretty stupid to shoot your own self in the foot.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 28, 2008, 11:56 AM:
 
"Geeze, I need to draw you a picture? Everybody else has figured it out with one word: UGLY!"
---------------------------
Yes, but you also said FAT. I am FAT, but I ain't ugly. Now Uncle Jay is ugly as hell, but he ain't FAT. You keep me in suspense much longer I might just have to go pout or something.
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on July 28, 2008, 12:32 PM:
 
I'm with Sensei Cronk. I'm in the dark as well.

But if the guys actually shot himself in the foot I just gotta know.
 

---

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 28, 2008, 12:57 PM:
 
I'm not sure Higgins, but you keep bringing up this gang of Minaska guys that are giving me a ride. After my midget comment, I'm thinking this may be one of those blanket parties. (You know, where they cover your head with a blanket and wail on you with baseball bats). Batter Up!
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 28, 2008, 01:24 PM:
 
HA! I didn't even think about that. LOL We won't hold that against you, Cal, it just means you're not perfect like us. We will make you an honorary Minaska Midget for the weekend.
 

---

Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on July 28, 2008, 01:34 PM:
 
Watch out for the Burrito's Cal, I was expecting Taco Bell.........But I got real mexican food..some is good and some tatses like shit..tomatoes ...guacamole (sp?)..LOL

By the way, If I can make it and hook up with you all, I'm FOXPRO too, I'll bring a self defense bat for us..

JD
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 28, 2008, 03:13 PM:
 
Just remember, the desert can be a big, lonely place at night... all alone... nekkid... outcast... wishing you owned a Minaska.
 

---

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on July 28, 2008, 03:15 PM:
 

quote:

---

We will make you an honorary Minaska Midget for the weekend.

---

Don't worry Cal, I think it only involves an inflateable sheep.
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 28, 2008, 03:48 PM:
 
Cal,

Don't let him set you up!

Shrimp taste much better in a Corn Tortillia than Flour. Ask for Taquitos de camarón, and don't let them bullshit you out of putting a quarter of a lime in your Tecate!

See you there!
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 04:21 PM:
 
Think about it, Mule! Colorado, fat, ugly?

Okay, I'm sending the correct answer to everybody that emails me; but some of these answers are hilarious! And wrong.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 04:55 PM:
 
In just the last five, six minutes I have had six guesses, only one was wrong. I think I made it way too easy, and yes, I know, it surprises me, as well.
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 28, 2008, 05:13 PM:
 
***, the spaceship guy...

[ July 28, 2008, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on July 28, 2008, 05:18 PM:
 
Well I still don't know

I must be out of the loop

Colorado and Ugly describes me but I'm definitely not fat.

I'll email ya

Also if you could put some names with the rest of the "monsters" I would appreciate it.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 28, 2008, 05:31 PM:
 
I just sent an E mail to Leonard with the wrong answer. I think that I just figured out who he is. I hope that I am wrong about this man though. I hope it isn't ***.

[ July 28, 2008, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on July 28, 2008, 05:33 PM:
 
Leonard,

I shot you an email. Please let me know if you don't get it.

I changed providers and have had nothing but trouble as of late.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 05:36 PM:
 
The last twelve responses have all been correct, but don't spread it around, because these type of chickenshits clam up big time' when everybody knows who they are.
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 28, 2008, 05:54 PM:
 
Apparently you know very little in the ways of the chickenshit, LB...
Knowing the names and putting a face to each monster will only fuel the fire. Nobody wants to be anonymous forever! You can bet on that...
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 06:12 PM:
 
This retard is denying who he is, over there. Won't work, asshole. I threatened the Board owner with legal action and he ratted you out.
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 28, 2008, 06:37 PM:
 
Lighten up Lenbo !

Just take that site as the laugh it was meant to be.

It's nothing serious, and darn sure isn't any real threat to any one, just a chance for a few guys to vent their frustrations. Getting aggravated at them, only fuels their fires.

Let them vent, and then laugh with them. If they have made an error in their judgment of you, then your laughing with them, will only give them second thoughts about their actions.

Life's too damned short to take the little things serious
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on July 28, 2008, 06:43 PM:
 
I guess the only thing I don't get is WHY??
 

---

Posted by Inoculation (Member # 2229) on July 28, 2008, 06:47 PM:
 
Yeah! It's all fun and games until someone gets thier eye poked out! Sorry, I just had to make light of the situation.
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 28, 2008, 07:54 PM:
 
DDDDamn Tim. Would you adopt me?
 

---

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 28, 2008, 08:10 PM:
 
To answer MULE'S inquiry.
I went to the Monster because I got an invitation.

Could have been a prank or some bait cooked up by some PM reject with a drool cup and lots of time on his hands. The person I got the mail from was signed by someone familiar but could have been Charles Manson. Who knows? He's a Monster.

I think it is an inventive and amusing concept. Atleast the way it was presented in the e mail. On paper?

[ July 28, 2008, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 08:33 PM:
 
You are mistaken, Tim. It is not that I am upset, in fact I'm having a good time poking at the prick. He is the one with the huge problem. I'm only reacting to his shit. And he thinks I'm somebody to **** with, but I am not somebody he wants to **** with. Furthermore, I don't deserve the abuse for running my dull little Board the way I need to run my dull little Board. He can have a butt sniffing party with those 3 other folks that can't behave themselves, and run me into the ground, for all I care.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on July 28, 2008, 10:05 PM:
 
Smithers

I wasn't asking why guys go there. Have a little fun,raise a little hell..I understand that

I was asking WHY that Blob dude had it in for Leonard
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 28, 2008, 10:53 PM:
 
Ah yes, Mule. Why would a grown man have such a tantrum in the first place? Well, he has abused my hospitality for years, and he's right, I banned him because of his emails. He is just petty and toxic and I am fed up.

I do not wake up every morning and hanker to ban somebody, so you have to figure he did something, right? He knows what he did. He has always had a way of pushing my buttons.

Now, I can assure you that I take a lot of shit administering Huntmasters. Every once in a while, somebody acknowledges that I do my job, and they like the banter and an occasional nugget of useful information.

Some days are better than others, but eventually, I lose my patience with this type of individual.

So, he didn't just go away, like a man, knowing that he asked for it; many times over in fact. He even says, I have edited his posts, and we all know how I hate to do that, and how often I do that. Figure it out, he pokes at me all the time, and here's the thing; this is my house, after all, and it just isn't very polite to be continually taking shots at the owner. Apparently, he feels that he has that right, but he just got his ticket punched.

So, that's why. He's a jerk.

Now, just so everybody knows; the screen name on that board is one that anybody can use and that is why it seems confusing, those are not all the same person posting under the name Blob.

Now, I was over there a little while ago and "somebody" posted a message to me under the name Blob, but I feel certain it is the board administrator, who normally calls himself GZ.

Now this is the ironic part. I coppied, and am pasting part of his message here:

quote:

---

Dear !!,
Quit threatening people with silly legal action for someone calling you a name on an internet forum. If that were true, you'd be sued out of house and home long ago by several people. It looks like whoever initially posted this has walked away from it at this point. As a close friend of yours, take my advice. Let it lie.
THE BLOB

---

So, this person is "a close friend of mine"? And, he presumes to give me advice. LET IT LIE.

Excuse me? I did not start this shit! Who are you calling silly?

But, I will let it lie. No more sig line and no more poking back at this creep.

Now, perhaps I will log on and might say something cordial. He assigned me the name, Hellboy, so if you see that one, at least you will know one member? If they want to hide their identity, whatever? But the Blob feature is not a good idea, if you want my opinion? They are already anonymous, (impossible to use your correct name) so how much more protection do you need before you grow a set of balls and tell everybody what you think?

Anyway, it's over, okay?

PEACE

edit: now if you guys want to go there and you didn't bookmark it, too bad.

[ July 28, 2008, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 29, 2008, 07:21 AM:
 
I've always thought the use of a series of letters or misleading names, that hide ones true identity, allows, if not encourages Internet commandos to misbehave. Seldom do you see a person that uses his or her real name become a mud slinging, name calling, moron.

[ July 29, 2008, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 29, 2008, 07:31 AM:
 
I see that the Blob on that monster board has deleted all of his posts in that mud slinging thread. Interesting isn't it?
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 11:24 AM:
 
Rich, I posted a little story about you, over there, about when somebody registered the screen name "Rich Cronk" and I had no way of knowing it wasn't you? Well, when the person made a post and you saw it and called my attention to it, I disabled that screen name and traced it back to another very well known individual also registered, but I never mentioned it (to him) and only recently told you who it was that was using your name. I'm sure you remember, and can attest to the facts?

As can Quinton Wagoner or Krusty, or anybody else that remembers the episode about Mr Johnson's son and how I (somehow) got the blame? Hell, it was probably our ugly friend that was working his ass off to discredit me? Never have figured out exactly why he seems to hate me, but it's clear, we can't be BFF.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on July 29, 2008, 12:32 PM:
 
This topic has sure wandered a long ways from the first post. Leonard, I'll let my wife know you like her Sassy Page Turners website.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 29, 2008, 02:47 PM:
 
Leonard,
Yes I do remember that incident of my identity being stolen. I signed on one day, and someone was posting crazy stuff under my name. I was actually registered already when that happened though. I also remember the "Special Olympics" comment, and I remember who it actually was that said it. It was NOT you, but unless the real Perp dies, I ain't gonna tell ya who it was.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 03:26 PM:
 
You are correct, Rich, but I could have been more clear? The screen name; "Rich Cronk" was taken way before you registered, and it was like...what do they call it a "sleeper cell" of radical Jhadists. He was there, but waited a long time before posting and by that time, You could have been any other Rich, for all I knew and maybe you had reregistered, stuff like that. But, he was on the board before you. LB
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 29, 2008, 03:56 PM:
 
Leonard,
Are you serious? If what you say was true, I would have received a message that my chosen screen name was already taken. That guy probably was registered before me, but not under Rich Cronk. You changed my screen name from Rich Cronk to just plain Rich, and you did that AFTER I signed on as Rich Cronk and found phony posts under my screen name. The guy probably just figured out my pass word. I haven't forgotten how you helped your other friend post under my name, only one letter off either. Forgiven you yes, but I don't forget that kind of thing. I ain't the smartest bulb in the lamp, but please don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 04:08 PM:
 
Well, you can believe what you like, but hold on a minute. As I said, I never delete anybody, just prevent them from posting but they are still a member. LB
 

---

Posted by Rich Cronk (Member # 130) on July 29, 2008, 04:16 PM:
 
Okay, now please notice the member number of Rich Cronk. There can't be two Rich Cronks, and this guy has been a member since 2003 and made exactly two posts. (edit: until now)

I'm not playing games, or pissing on your leg. This is an actual record I just now retrieved and he was registered before you (correction, I see that he does have a higher number, but I changed nothing) and didn't post until after you started posting, but I disabled the account when you complained about it. Look at his profile and your profile and then look at the dates of your posts, etc. No, I never changed anything besides preventing him from causing any more trouble.

As far as Higgins, you can believe this if you want, but he got NO assistance from me. I didn't like what he did and told him so, but I didn't do anything for him. Honest.

Good hunting. LB

[ July 29, 2008, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 04:27 PM:
 
Now, look at the list of "Rich Cronk's" posts and click on the "summer heat" thread. It's all there, what he did and what I did and then it was totally forgotten. But, the record is still there, I did a search on Rich Cronk and he popped up. I didn't change any info or switch anything, I just stopped him from posting.
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 29, 2008, 05:45 PM:
 
I couldn't find the summer heat thread, nor the list of my old posts. When I looked at my profile, it clearly states that there can only be ONE Rich Cronk. That tells me that he found my pass word, nothing more. He could NOT have posted under my name if I was already using it, and I couldn,t register twice under same screen name. Doesn,t matter anymore, it was a long time ago.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2008, 06:55 PM:
 
okay, whatever. read this: http://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000132

edit: he never had your password

[ July 29, 2008, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on July 31, 2008, 10:29 AM:
 
And these are the days of our lives....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

I'm fat and ugly, am I the mystery man? Ooops, I guess I can still post so it must not be me. Hardy Har!

I would have never guessed that a man could be categorized based on the brand of e caller he uses. I never used a Fox Pro but the simple fact that 3 Toes uses one tells me that they obviously get the job done. Give me a man that knows coyotes and he can call them with a blade of grass. For heaven's sake, what did we do before e callers?

I'm a WT fan so what category does that put me in? When the batteries go dead, I don't walk back to the truck and head home. In fact, sometimes I think I'd be better off without any e-caller since their popularity has reduced their effectiveness in many situations.

On a different topic, I had to chuckle about the comment regarding someone's concerns about calling coyotes in and around urban areas without shooting them could potentially lead to attacks on children. Haha! Thaz funny rat thar!

Stop and think about it. First, these coyotes are already habituated to people and associated sounds or they wouldn't be there. Second, think about all the sounds that naturally come from an urban environment that can attract those coyotes that are habituated to that environment. Yapping ankle biting dogs, cat fights, concentrations of rats and mice, and unfortunately, screaming children that sound nothing like any coyote calls I've ever heard. Most coyote activity takes place at night. To think calling coyotes in an urban environment during daylight hours would further habituate coyotes takes a real stretch of the imagination and a real lack of understanding of coyote behavior. As if that coyote had never been attracted to another urban sound that didn't end up being a meal. The next time you see a coyote in an urban area, think about this. Think about all the sights and sounds that surround that coyote. Think about all the smells that surround that coyote. Then think how unrealistic it is to assume that one calling incident would habituate that coyote enough for it to suddenly attack children.

No comprende'!

I have a bigger concern with those who make such ignorant statements than concerning myself with what e-caller they're packing.

DOGPILE!

~SH~

[ July 31, 2008, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

---

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 31, 2008, 10:45 AM:
 
OK , I'll begin the dogpile.
You are absolutely correct and you worded it in a way that even the originator of that thread might understand. Incidentally that author has a video out called "Coyote Behavior".
The e-caller thing? That was kinda fun.
Next.

[ July 31, 2008, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
 

---

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 31, 2008, 11:09 AM:
 
I would just like to say Thank you WILEY E for stopping by. I was beginning to think that you stepped in a prairie dog hole, got your foot stuck, and starved to death.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2008, 12:12 PM:
 
He ain't starving, Rich. Neither am I, and neither are you!

But yeah, the whole idea that calling urban coyotes is child's play, and dangerous? That's something I would expect from PETA, not somebody who has built a reputation as an experienced coyote hunter? Apparently, there is experience, and experience.

Good hunting. LB
 

---

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0