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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 24, 2008, 01:47 PM:
I'm having a dry spell and need any help you guys can offer.
First the story:
Last winter and the winter before that, I only got out once per winter season. On the first of these trips I discovered two of my best spots disappeared. One spot the farmer locked me out. Another was an orange grove that the farmer removed. Last winter I discovered another great spot has been taken by a land greedy city named Buckeye. I still have a few calling areas that are fair to middle, but are heavily pressured. I usually only get out three or four times a year.
This year, I've been out three times and skunked three times. All times were in new areas for me because I'm looking for some new honey holes. The ORV traffic busted three stands yesterday. One kid even stopped and started going towards my ecall before I told him to leave it alone. I think I spooked him since he hadn't seen me yet as I was in leaffy wear camo with an AR strung aroung my neck. BTW: this spot is 75 miles from the Tucson Az and about 120 miles from PHX. I thought I was out far enought.
Now for some new stratagies I've come up with. Also, all comments are appreciated along with any other ideas.
In other words HELP:
First, I need to hike away from even double tracks trails to get away from the quad traffic where ORVs are possibly running. This will be difficult to do while in a nice looking wash. BTW: a wash is a dry creek bed for you folks in wetter regions of the country. Out here, they are almost always dry and are fun as heck to run a quad up and down.
I really hate to say this, but I should look at maybe hunting the Reservations. The San Carlos and the Navajo have a small game license available, but I don't trust the resevations. I feel as comfortable going on ****** Reservations with guns as I would going to Mexico with guns.
Avoid calling during hunts that put alot of hunters afield like quail and javalina. That may have been one ORV that busted one stand yesterday. It is pig season.
That's what I come up with so far on my own. Any advice on calling stratgies, volume, stand selections and setup will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
[ February 24, 2008, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 24, 2008, 02:53 PM:
Three words;
Scouting
Scouting
Scouting.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 24, 2008, 03:53 PM:
Kokopelli: I looked up where you live. That looks like great country. Living so close to 5 million people really messes things up. I know your suggestion is correct. I just don't get out enough to scout. It probably would also be wise to scout 1 hr before sunrise and 1 hr after sunset to listen for howling.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 24, 2008, 04:37 PM:
Yeah, we lost the entire Rainbow Valley to Buckeye. Maricopa, Eloy, Casa Grande are building housing developements on my calling areas also.
You need to drive down to McNeal, turn your caller on and locate a coyote 40 yards in front of your rifle. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 24, 2008, 05:21 PM:
Higgins, I have been requested to ban that word. You aren't helping!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 24, 2008, 05:24 PM:
I don't get the problem with 5 million people. Higgins calls 'em in the Projects.
Doesn't he? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
WHich word? McNeal? I still have it in my "title/ job description" . Can it be changed to Abilene sector? I've never been to McNeal and Higgins is gonna have the place all shot out by everyone else by the time I ever get down there.
BTW, while on the subject of titles and job descriptions, can we use avatars here? If I'm gonna be a "cheerleader", I wanna use the picture I had the wife take of me today, just special for the occasion.
Sweeeeeetttt!!!!!!!!!
[ February 24, 2008, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 24, 2008, 06:09 PM:
Rich H: I never knew where McNeal was until just now. Question: That is so close to the border that it makes me question how many legs your coyotes have. Two or Four? I know the two legged coyotes are very pletiful down there. If this is what you are doing, what sounds do you use. The sounds of deep frying burritos and of tortillas being patted out by hand. Also, the smell of a pot of steaming tomales would be a great cover sent.
BTW: I'm the guy that talked to you at the PVCI meeting who went to the North Kaibab for a couple of days by himself and called but didn't harvest a bobcat. When I told you I frequented this site, you asked me my screen name and I didn't know it. Turns out and Leonard commented that I probably have the record for the amount of time between joining and posting. I joined in Jan 2005 and my first post was Jan 2008. Also, I usually start the day off with mouth calls but switch over to electronics later in the day after getting discouraged and lazy. I then usually end the last two stands with mouth calls. Except when I'm by myself in the Kaibab. I don't like calling alone in great cougar country with mouth calls.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on February 24, 2008, 06:29 PM:
I would say you are trying to hard to find that "honey hole"; If there are any in AZ, Dr Higgins has found them.
There are more coyote hunters in AZ, than coyotes; More atv drivers than hunters. You have to learn to adapt. There are alot of coyotes between here and Gila Bend or west of gila bend and north of I-8; go west on i_10 to Tonapah. North to Cottonwood. Ro0savelt lake area NE of town;
The other option is to quit hunting coyotes. Gas prices are out landish; fur is worth $15; Spend $200 in a weekend for 2 coyotes....
the coyotes are out there... pick and choose the areas... good luck
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 24, 2008, 06:36 PM:
Looking at the map of McNeal Az I see Naco is nearby. I've been told in the past about the yote populations around there too from a friend of mine, Jim, that goes out metal detecting on a regualar basis. My friend just made his last trip down to Naco because of the immigration problem. He says at night the illegals gathered around his motorhome probably thinking he was their ride. They didn't cause any problems and he just stayed locked up in his motorhome until the border patrol showed up. He also said that everytime they moved the border patrol/national guard would come by and check on him because he was constantly setting off motion sensors. They finally said something to the effect that they couldn't force him, but would he please go somewhere else. He is also the reason why I won't bother to goto the SE deserts of AZ. He was down at Patton's training grounds metal detecting for several days and never heard a yote. I'll try back there in a year or two. About hunting down that close to the border alone: it doesn't bother me to hunt by day down there, but I don't think I would like camping out alone with all the human trafficing and such. By day I would be wearing 3D camo with an AR strung around my neck. All I need do say is AMIGRA and they would run like quail.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 24, 2008, 06:41 PM:
C-Dude; That picture is just wrong. I can only hope that my cat doesn't vomit on the carpet because I saw it. However, if you post it on Craig's List under 'services / erotic'...........
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 24, 2008, 06:57 PM:
Norm: Buckeye has annexed much of the land south of the Lewis Prison. I'm trying to figure it out but Buckeye's maps suck on the internet. It looks like Buckeye annexed land 4 miles south of Patterson road. This took out some very good yote country. I just want you to be aware of this before you go too far north of Gila Bend.
Here is a link to Buckeye's annexation map. It is difficult to tell exactly where you can or cannot hunt but it gives you the general idea.
I'm not giving up yet, but with gas prices this high it would be a smart fiscal move.
http://www.buckeyedevelopment.com/uploads/why/Annexation%20Map%2012.2007.pdf
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on February 24, 2008, 07:47 PM:
Naco, McNeal; All highly over-rated; AZ hunter doesn't hunt there. Tim doesn't hunt there... they go else where... Too many tourists in the area. I know of half a dozen coyote hunters that just moved into the area and the land is being posted faster than the speed of light..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 24, 2008, 10:49 PM:
Yeah, that's the truth. Stay away from ****** . Bullhead City is good.
It's fixed Lance. Any more complaints?
[ February 24, 2008, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on February 25, 2008, 04:12 AM:
Apple Valley, California is a great destination. and there is alot of great calling country between here and there.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 25, 2008, 06:04 AM:
Leonard: On my original post that started this thread I tried to us a three letter abbreviation for *********** (Leonard: it did it again. The word is the last word we use when talking about Injun land when used with two words and it strarts with R. It also blew out the word that starts with I. Why don't you permit this word?)and it bleeped me out. Why?
I goto bullhead city to fish Mohave lake. To me it looks way too barren to produce good coyote numbers. I will one of these days goto the border regions to hunt. I use this sport also as an excuse to explore AZ. One thing an ole timer told me along time ago: get away from the city. He said there is an invisible circle around Phx that you must get beyond before you stand a good chance of calling. That was part of the problem when we started last weekend because we started at Flourence Junction. TOO CLOSE. That circle includes Cordes Junction, Wickenburg, Palo Verde,Casa Grande, Gila Bend, Coolige, and Superior. That's the circle as I see it. There are some spots that I have successfully called withing that circle but most of those areas will now get you arrested or busted by and ATV(especially on a weekend).
In 2009, they are going to start cracking down of ATVs big time. The Forest Service and the BLM are going to some type of uniform code of vehicle use. I'm hoping the new regs will greatly reduce numbers involved in this sport just like the three wheeler fad went by by back in the late 80s.
Norm: you are right about the number of coyote hunters out numbering coyotes in AZ. With the big game draw odds of getting drawn for a decent big game hunt so low, a man just has to kill something in between his big game hunts. The hunting opportunities are pretty sad. The deer and antelope populations are really in the tank. The elk seem to be fairing much better. Hopefully, this 12 year drought will end this year. With the rainfall we have had, Roosevelt Lake will fully fill for the first time since thay raised it. Hopefully, Powell will come up another 50 feet or more.
We will see.
[ February 25, 2008, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 25, 2008, 07:38 AM:
I'm more than a little surprised to see someone in AZ. struggling to find a spot to hunt.
I suppose if you lived in the heart of Phoenix it might take two hours to drive past the sprawl..... so maybe I have to cancel my surprise....
Drive two hours + and don't park anywhere near any honeybee hives. The bees are not the problem, BTW.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2008, 08:58 AM:
I don't know, Az? There's........ a bug in the program and I have tried for years to remedy, with no luck. Sorry. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 25, 2008, 09:38 AM:
Thanks for the quick answer Leonard. I know, these computers are really great, but they have these bugs that simply drive us nuts trying to get them out of there.
JoeF: The problem is Phoenix is a huge metropolitan city today with actually four million people in Maricopa county alone. That doesn't include the folks that live in the east vally which is Pinal county. This time of year, the climate is very nice; and everyone is getting out to the desert on their quads and 4x4s. We saw two large groups/clubs of four wheelers getting ready to take off from the Flourence area Saturday morning while driving thru town so we decided to go down to Oracle to start calling. We were busted twice with ORVs while just west from San Manuel and Mammoth. Both of these towns are a good distance from both Phoenix and Tucson so we didn't expect this.
It was just a bad day, it happens sometimes.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 25, 2008, 09:46 AM:
JoeF: I must admit I didn't look at you post close enough. I thought the last line was your standard signature so now it begs the question. Why do you want to avoid honeybees? I would call next to a hive, but 100 yards away would seem ok.
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 25, 2008, 09:57 AM:
AZ, just a poor attempt at an inside joke. There used to be some crazy moron that kept bees out in the desert a couple of hours away from Phoenix that would go absolutely ballistic if you were parked anywhere near some of his hives. He'll be real easy to recognize - long greasy yellow-ish/white hair. Cowboy hat, jeans, boots. Rectangular mouth that matches the outline of a Glock real well. Crazy bastard.
Truthfully, the guy is probably long gone. It was quite a few years ago when I had my run-in with him. Unless he has improved his technique or changed his approach I doubt that he has made it this long.
Just to be safe though, he was on the absolutely opposite side of Phoenix from ****** so it would probably be safer to hunt down there, just in case.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2008, 10:28 AM:
Oh dear! Another bug!
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 25, 2008, 11:32 AM:
Thanks for the info JoeF. I do live on the other side of town from ****** , but I've never met a crazy bee keeper like that. They have no right to stop anybody if it is on public land. If they are leasing the site from the state trust land department, BLM or Forest service, they cannot stop you from hunting there. As a matter of respect I always stay at least 100 yds from the hives. Bees are one of the favorite food for quail. Find bee hives and you will probably find quail.
Posted by Chief (Member # 463) on February 25, 2008, 12:09 PM:
If'n your only getting out two or three times a year and hardly no scouting what can ya expect?
As far as hunting the border goes I get out there at least two or three times a week. I'll be damned if I'm going to let the illegals dictate where I'm going to hunt. If we don't call/hunt the border then we have lost the fight and the mexicans have won. I won't be run off by a bunch of illegals, nor should any other American. 
These are the areas you need to be hunting and calling in.
[ February 25, 2008, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Chief ]
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on February 25, 2008, 04:10 PM:
Noted Arthur??? LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2008, 04:30 PM:
Danny, I guess only you and me got the joke?
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 25, 2008, 05:07 PM:
Heck it isn't really all that bad in that little Irish town by Douglas. I always get a truck load of backpacks and empty milk jugs when I'm there.
I pass out the backpacks to the school kids and dump all the milk jugs around Mesa.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 25, 2008, 06:31 PM:
I don't have a problem with hunting on the border. I just don't want to sleep out in the desert at night. I usually do these longer trips by myself.
I take that back, I do have a problem with hunting the Mexican border. It is a 4 hour drive to it. A little to far for a day hunt when you live in Phoenix. The only way I can hunt down there is to spend at least a couple of nights in a hotel. I usually like to limit my drives to 2.5 hours from the house on a day hunt.
As far as backpacks, I saw about six day packs and milk jugs left along a gas line road around Florence last saturday. That group made it well into the interior.
Thanks for all the help
[ February 25, 2008, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 26, 2008, 06:12 AM:
Aznative, do you still have novice status at PVCI?
If so, you are welcome to join Tyler and me for the March Hunt.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 26, 2008, 03:12 PM:
No, but I'll quit and rejoin; thus rolling back to novice again to go hunting with you. I'm sure I could learn alot from you.
I hardly ever do the scramble hunts. I do this because I like to do it. The only scramble hunt I've done was with Bob Jensen because he wanted to. Bob I believe is still a memeber, but he now lives and California.
I've come up with some ideas. Almost all of the hunts that I've done this year has been in almost totally new areas for me as far as predator calling goes; thus, the biggest reason for the dry spell. I do know of some places that have been productive in the past, that I THINK are still available to hunt, and that are reasonably close to home. You just never know for sure until you try them since things change so fast in this state. I need to revisit these areas that I believe are still open while there is still some season (my own seasonal limits) left, and maybe I'll finally kill something.
Another strategy is to look for new areas within about 2 - 21/2 hours drive maximum from my home starting in April. I may still drive to the southern border or to the Kaibab for a couple of days of hunting, but I've come to the conclusion that it just isn't as lucrative to hunt in areas that are too far to really scout. In other words, use such trips to go sight seeing and to maybe kill something. However, I should keep my main focus closer to home where I can really investigate the yote populations.
Going South or East just doesn't seem to be as good for me since it is about 1 - 1.5 hours of driving just to get beyond the city.
I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions.
Rod
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 26, 2008, 08:05 PM:
Az, There is a reason that Leonard keeps sending everyone over towards my house, but yet bans the name of the lands, and several of the towns found between Tucson and Yuma.
It's true, Vic and I may get our mail in ****** , but we don't hunt close to home. Most of the gates that aren't yet locked up, have some out of Towner trying to call coyotes behind them.
If you want to kill coyotes, you have to go where the coyotes are, not gullible out of town coyote hunters!
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 27, 2008, 06:20 AM:
Tim, it wasn't Leonard that directed me towards your backyard. Go back and read some of the first posts. As far as my opinion goes, 200 miles is too far for most coyote hunting trips, and I'm further than that from the southern border. I have traveled long distances to go calling, but I'm of the opinion that they usually won't be successfull because I just don't know the area good enough or don't know the current conditions well enough. Example: I went to the Kaibab for 2 1/2 days of hunting. I know the area, but I didn't know where the deer herds were. I told my family the general area guessing the herds had dropped down to lower elevations by that time of year. I made this estimate based upon what I saw when I was up there deer hunting 7 years ago. I was wrong. My conculsion is that the herds don't drop until the snow forces them. All I called in on that trip was one bobcat which I didn't harvested. I believe the yotes follow these herds.
I will end up going way south someday just for S&Gs, and I will do this more than once. The Chiricahua range has a very special appeal. I've never been there but have heard it is beutifull. I've hunted in the Pinoleros because my dad grew up in Pima and took me there years ago. Talk about no trespassing signs, Klondike is full of them. There is little to no hunting permited in the whole valley. Arizona has a bounty of public lands, but the private land owners are constantly shutting the door on the public if and when the only road access goes thru their private property. In most cases you can probably walk in somewhere but that isn't pratical in most cases.
What I believe needs to happen is a VERY BIG MOVEMENT OF ALL OUTDOOR CLUBS TO LOBBY THE APPROPITATE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO STOP THIS. For example, the state trust land dept should not permit anyone leasing state lands to shut the door. If they deny road access to any public lands, they should be denied leasing rights. Next we need to get the Blm to do the same and then the Forest Service. I say the Rancers should be allowed to post no hunting/shooting signs withing a reasonable distance from any homes and buildings on their private land, say 1 mile. But that should be all they are allowed to. Since most ranchers lease most of their land in this state, this would reopen much of the public lands we have been denied.
Just my .02
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 27, 2008, 06:31 AM:
Tim,
I have a personal question for you. I had some neighbors that bought 160 acres down at Elfrida a couple of decades ago. Their names are Jim and Freddy Wilson. Jim use to be a plumbing contractor. Do you know them by chance? If so, how are they doing?
BTW: Before all of you start making jokes the lady's name is Feddy. They are not a couple of queers.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 27, 2008, 07:43 AM:
I think that I've met her, that name sure rings a bell.
Vic would probably know them. Being an old retired guy, he spends a lot of his afternoons down at the Feed Store or Gas Station being sociable while whittling, and playing checkers with the other old guys.
And I agree 100% with your ideas on these Ranchers and State Trust lands, if they lock us out, they should loose their grazing rights , period!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2008, 08:05 AM:
See Tim? Not me! I even gave you special status and banned your towns' name . What more can I do to keep people from making the pilgrimage to the best coyote hunting in the U.S. of A? Like Mecca for Muslims, you know what I mean?
Oh, I am so jealous! LB
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