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Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on February 05, 2008, 06:00 PM:
 
Last weekend I watched a hunter(on TV) using a Deer decoy while hunting deer from a tree stand, using a decoy. I also saw a show about sitting ina stand for Bear, using a decoy.
These guys drove the ATV's right thru the stand site, spread scent everywhere ( human scent and not on purpose) and gas.

Now, my question, what do you think about decoys? It seems to me a great way to spread human scent everywhere. Besides the remote caller, now more scent, what is the deal??? I dont see how it will help. UNLESS, you are doing something to get rid of the smell.
What do Ya'll think?
Thanks
Carl
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 05, 2008, 07:05 PM:
 
I have only had experience with coyote hunting using decoys. using small decoys like the jack in the box ect. on stands where the coyotes come in sllowly they seem to hold thier focus and allow me more movement. on chargers they get to the decoy get a whiff and are gone like a rocket,never giving me a shot I have no desire to carry a coyote sized decoy into the stand. Its my opinion that I carry too much crap into the field as it is. Clearly the hunters you saw on the show would have little success with coyotes.I dont know of any way you could get rid of scent with the exception of time.
PM
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 05, 2008, 09:45 PM:
 
Carl,

The same thing could be said, that placing a remote speaker could "just spread scent around".

But it's generally accepted that the benefits outweigh the negatives, by doing so you can increase your odds.

You don't necessarily have to "foul up" another area for the decoy, placing the decoy at the source of the sound validates what brought the predator to the point where he could see that location (as well as most predators can see).
And it doesn't smell the place up any more than it did to get the sound coming from there.

The sense of smell usually exceeds the range of vision, so to me a decoy is to hold the attention of an animal approaching from anywhere (and everywhere) but downwind.
And like the remote speaker, I think the benefits in such situations are generally accepted outweigh the negatives.

After I saw the way the coyote I called on my trip was so engrossed with the obviously mechanical magpie decoy, I was fully convinced of the positives of having a decoy with my (wired) remote speaker (ESPECIALLY in light of the short distance I can separate myself from it).

Krusty
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 06, 2008, 06:53 AM:
 
Take this for what it's worth.....

I've used rabbit dekes, motorized rabbit dekes, and a bouncing hairball with a tail on a stick. I've had some luck with them;....all bad. Too many coyotes that saw the deke & flared off. Major WTF??? These were coyotes that I felt that I should have been getting good shots at. For me, dekes for coyotes are at best not worth the trouble and at worst, counter productive.

For cats, on the other hand,.....I don't know.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2008, 09:46 AM:
 
I agree with you, koko. I have had very limited results with decoys over the years....it seems like such a great idea! And, with a cat, well, it's hard to underestimate their value. But, many times, a coyote eagarly coming in to a distress sound will get all spooky when they see certain decoys. It probably has to do with their status in the territory?

On the other hand, I have had coyotes that come in, expecting to see something in distress, and when they don't see anything, they get suspicious as hell. Especially if you locate your decoy out in the open with a 360º view.

Anyway, for me, a decoy is more trouble than it is worth, on coyotes.

But, in trying to figure out exactly what is being asked by the original question.....
Deer hunters in a stand have a good reason to worry about their scent since they sit in a tree for hours with drifting wind currents, etc. On the other hand when calling predators, it's only for 15-20 minutes, so you don't have as much time to stink up the area, and you aren't committed to the spot, like on a deer stand.

Whatever. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 06, 2008, 03:32 PM:
 
I really wish I could offer some enlightening commentary on this subject, but it just so happens I'm part of a select group of people "beta testing" a new decoy from Flambeau that just recently hit the market. The article introducing these deeks is this very day being reviewed by key players and is slated to be published very soon. Going into this project, I was doubtful as well. I gotta admit it. But, first hand experience has made me question my earlier position. With that, I can only submit two pics, both of which are kinda like some being considered for photo support on the article, but which didn't make the cut...

First, I named this one "Leroy" and this coyote died because of him.



Second, all seven of these coyotes died as a direct result of this decoy - affectionately named "Calvin" - and took first place at the NE Kansas Coyote Calling Challenge.



No one else was able to get coyotes to respond to distress. And howling was hardly what we would call "knocking them dead". Everyone of these coyotes was killed coming to jackrabbit distress, after they checked things out from upwards of 300 yards, often from cover, and locked onto the decoy, approaching close enough that each and every one was killed with a shotgun within 40 yards of these two guys. Todd admitted up front that he considered carrying a decoy in on every set to be "more of a hassle than what it was worth". By the middle of the first day, "Calvin" had earned a place up front in the truck cab between stands (literally ) and these guys' first comments to me when I asked how the decoy did were "Best money I ever spent" and "I was dead wrong!"

In short, FWIW.

[ February 06, 2008, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2008, 03:58 PM:
 
GIVE ME A BREAK, LANCE!

That's a lot like we need studio quality sound to call coyotes, in spite of hundreds of thousands of coyotes that have been killed responding to a crummy Johnny Stewart 512.

Have I sucessfull called coyotes without a dek? Well, yeah. Have I seen coyotes check up and sometimes leave the area after looking at my dek? Well, yeah. How many times have I sat there and said; GEE! I WOULD NEVER HAVE KILLED THAT COYOTE IF I DIDN'T HAVE A DEK!

Not many.

But, this is KANSAS, so maybe?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 06, 2008, 05:42 PM:
 
For someone to say that they would not have killed a coyote without the decoy is sometimes tough to swallow, because how do we really know. It's not like you can call a coyote up with the decoy and then turn around and do the same stand without a decoy to see if you get the same exact results.
BUT we do no that truck loads of coyotes are killed every year without the use of a decoy, or Ecaller for that matter, but yet there are those that truely beleive that they wouldn't kill as many coyotes without one or the other! the Ecaller, maybe, but a decoy, I'm not sold yet!
I will say that it is fun to use a decoy at times, only to see what kind of reactions, or lack of reactions, the coyotes have to it.
Before long, someone will have to market a little red wagon for coyote callers to pull with them, just to get all the crap from the truck to the stand, of course the wagon will have to be camo dipped!
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 06, 2008, 06:15 PM:
 
Oh, I agree, Leonard. Lots of new fangled gadgets to be buying and using these days, if that's what you want. Kinda makes you wonder how any of us ever got the job done up to now with just one call around our neck. But thanks for sharing your thoughts.

As I said, I can't really get too much into the material I used in the article, but the dead coyote you see me by is dead because of the decoy. Not so much because the decoy called him in, or even assisted in bringing him in. Actually, I did that, but when he got there, he came in at a very bad angle for me and I had to turn almost 180-degrees just to get to where I could shoot. He was twenty yards behind me and downwind when he saw the deek and stood there while I turned completely around right in front of him, and in plain view. Like I said, he didn't call the coyote in, but the coyote was sure so interested in what he was doing there that he stood there and let me kill him. The first two coyotes killed in the second pic were a double that came from the side and crossed immediately downwind of Tom and Todd. Both guys said they thought for sure that those coyotes were goners. On top of that, they made an approach that put them within 150 yards of their truck and in plain view. The entire time they were calling this stand, three dog wagons were less than a mile away shooting out a ravine. Todd and Tom were sitting on the face of a pond dam in zero cover (grass < 2 inches tall), and they were both floored that these two coyotes approached, totally oblivious to their presence, hackles raised and totally focused on the decoy.

As I stated, I too am a total skeptic, but what I saw with that first coyote was pretty impressive.

"Before long, someone will have to market a little red wagon for coyote callers to pull with them..."

Yep, some days, if I really haul out the toys, I look like a friggin' refugee. LOL Most days, it's just me, the gun, the sticks and a lanyard of calls.

I see that my ranking has changed. I ain't never been nowhere near McNeal though, so can I have that changed to the Kansas sector?

[ February 06, 2008, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 06, 2008, 08:39 PM:
 
Uh, coyotes ARE sight "hounds".
My thoughts. If you are going to use an e-caller you might as well set some type of decoy, feather or fake rabbit, near it if you are going to go through the trouble of putting it any distance from you.
That guy that shoots the Swift says, "If they are close enough to see it they are close enough to shoot." Makes sense to me.
I still use one occasionally when I have an extra pocket. I won't use a decoy that owns a tail. Decoys with tails are just asking for trouble...
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 07, 2008, 07:15 AM:
 
Cdog;...Question; Could the results that you had with the 'Mounted Coyote' deke have anything to do with the ongoing breeding season or do you think that this will also work during the earlier parts of the fur season?? It looks interesting, but other than the 'more crap to carry' part, I have to wonder if that type of deke wouldn't bring in a coyote that may or may not come in anyway, but cause a cat to hang back in the brush undetected.

Smithers; Yes, coyotes are 'sight hounds'. Uncle Jay teaches us that in his excellent work 'Coyote Behavior'. It just hasn't worked that way for me.....in the areas that I hunt.....in the time of year...etc. etc. As far as Why Not, I don't know. Maybe I just had a streak of bad luck with paranoid coyotes, maybe the planets were aligned wrong, or maybe Hillary was getting lucky, causing a vast disruption in the Force.

Leonard; That part about the coyote 'expects to see something' is why I tried the dekes in the first place. I belive that it was Dennis Kirk who once said "Hide the sound", and I have to agree with him. A coyote coming into an open area knows where the sound is coming from and should be able to see what's causing the comotion unless the sound is coming from a bush or a pile of rocks etc. I've actually had a couple of different coyotes up on their hind legs trying to get the caller out of a bush. And yes, that is really neat to see!!
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 07, 2008, 11:23 AM:
 
If the coyotes were checked up 300-600 or more away looking things over how did they see that coyote decoy??? It's colored such that it will blend in, since it's colored the same as a coyote, and we all know how a coyote can "disappear" when it stops and blends into the background. Does the tail move around much? In the wind?

I've had coyotes walk withen feet of me and never "see" me as danger because I'm not moving. As soon as I move it's like they suddenly see me.

So how did they see a blended in motionless decoy at a quarter mile or more?

That's the part of the "calvin" story that doesn't make sense to me.

As far as the coyotes zero'd in on the deke after they get close, well, they're close, so shouldn't they be dead anyway? Other than getting them into shotgun range, is that the only benefit?

Label me a skeptic also. I've been burned by decoys more than helped. The decoys with continual battery motion seem to spook more than help, for me. And the motionless decoys don't seemed to get noticed as well, likely because they look like the real animal (for instance my fawn decoy) and blend in when motionless. My "best" decoy results have been with a turkey hen decoy that bobbles and swings in the breeze. A little motion, lifelike, big, yummy, and when skylined can be seen a long distance, otherwise it too is hard for them to see unless it's moving.

edit to add: over the last year I've ditched the decoys for the most part and put the e-caller in a bush, base of a tree, bottom of fence post, tuff of grass, anywhere a wounded or frightened animal would go to hide or get away from a predator. If the animal sound, be it from a caller or the real animal, coming from a spot like that the coyote isn't going to see anything, and if it were a reasoning creature would assume the hawk is in the tree or pole in the area. But they aren't so to condition of a wounded animal hiding under a bush is goodness to them.

Just like Kokopelli stated, it goes back to Dennis Kirk and likely long before that. It's not a new idea, or "gimmick", can't sell it, so maybe that's why it isn't popular?

Saves me carrying a decoy and walking out into the open where I can be seen. I hug the cover and try to stay out of sight and also not spread too much scent, putting the caller at most 50 yards from me.

The little foxpro xr6 used this way has been working good for me, 4 coyotes in the last 7 stands (over the last 6 weeks, too busy and lousy weather when i do have time, not getting out much...), not bad numbers for Iowa, better than I ever got using a decoy.

later,
scruffy

[ February 07, 2008, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 07, 2008, 12:20 PM:
 
Oh Lance, I forgot to mention, you got that model 11 looking very very good. My lefty 11FL in 22-250 has also been treating me right, and I might treat her to the same stock. Thanks for posting the howto on painting on the other site, I might have to give that a try as well.

later,
scruffy
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 07, 2008, 03:10 PM:
 
Uncle Jay! He has a beard and a funny hat...
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on February 07, 2008, 04:09 PM:
 
Hey Lance, is Todd either from Wray Colorado or a Painter? LOL Silly Question, I know, I remember the face and relate it to one of two conversations I had with a guy about painting or being from CO.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 07, 2008, 04:55 PM:
 
scruffy,

In the case of "Calvin", Todd and Tom Wilson have done like I do - put him where you can't help but see him. On a terrace ridge, in an open snowfield, or on a pond dam - any place with good elevation.

The tail on this particular decoy is poseable, and the legs detach and fold underneath the body so the decoy can assume any of three postures - standing, sitting or lying down.

Kokopelli,

Your inquiry about its effects on bobcats is one of the uniquely interesting thing about the results that have been observed is using this decoy. A guy with another magazine who, also, was provided with a model to field test, has killed two adult male 'cats which came out, saw the decoy, then approached it and stood in front of it with their backs arched and hissing at it trying to take the "rabbit" the guy had glued to its nose. I've got copies of the e-mails that were sent to the manufacturer along with pics but they belong to someone else and I'm not at liberty to post them here or anywhere else.

Like I said, I was about as much a skeptic as anyone else here. There's only so much a guy can tote to the stand. This particular deek only weighs about 2-3 pounds. But, at this time of the year, this thing is producing amazingly well. Even I am surprised.

Will it produce this well year around? Frankly, I do not know. It was only released in late November, so only time will tell. But early responses were similar to what one would expect if he were using a real decoy dog - the coyote spots the dog, looks at it for a while, then turns and vacates. Then, there's the way they respond now.

Is it ludicrous for someone to think they need this to call coyotes?

How many rifles do you own? How many do you "need" to hunt coyotes, or go plinking? Wouldn't just one do fine?

How many calls do you own? Wouldn't one open reed and one enclosed reed work fine?

My point is that you buy what you want, and someone else will buy what they want.

Guys buy a lot of stuff to augment and enhance their hunting experience. What you "need" will probably be different than what someone else is looking for. Different hunting areas dictate different approaches, techniques, and equipment needs. The response the Wilsons got in an area where dog hunters are very prevalent is in fact, very impressive. They've been calling coyotes a long time and won a number of contests. They were admittedly skeptical but don't leave the truck without ol' Calvin now.

Like howling, misting, estrus chirps, camouflage facemasks, hiding the truck and hunting where you know coyotes reside, it's out there. Take it or leave it.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 07, 2008, 04:58 PM:
 
Loco,

They're both from NE Kansas, but have been at St. Francis each of the past three years. You might know him from there.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 07, 2008, 05:58 PM:
 
The local fly shop is filled to the brim with simple decoys. Whole pheasant feathers, deer tails, peacock feathers, rabbit faces.
Not knocking the 3-D decoy but I much prefer to carry around a small Zoinked Rabbit. Which is, for those that wonder, a length of rabbit hide that is tanned, dyed and cut into about 20 strands and held together as one at the top by a length of un-Zoinked leather. They come in an amazing array of colors that the color-challenged coyote and fox find at the least interesting enough to slow them up by two steps as they streak past.
It would be great if you could keep us up to date on the successes and failures using your new and useful tool, Cdog. I find it interesting what will and won't fool animals.

[ February 07, 2008, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 07, 2008, 06:24 PM:
 
I have too many rifles and too many calls and the wife says i got to draw the line somewhere so i guess it wellbe decoys. Use them if you think you need them don't matter to me...
 

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Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on February 07, 2008, 07:54 PM:
 
Thanks Folks, there is a lot of good information here.
Carl
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 05:34 AM:
 

quote:

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scruffy,

In the case of "Calvin", Todd and Tom Wilson have done like I do - put him where you can't help but see him. On a terrace ridge, in an open snowfield, or on a pond dam - any place with good elevation.

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quote:

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I have too many rifles and too many calls and the wife says i got to draw the line somewhere so i guess it wellbe decoys. Use them if you think you need them don't matter to me...

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Tim, that thing might be just the thing that puts those uncallable coyotes over the edge. Think about it, seriously.

Think of the gas money it would save.

(ok, that last part was a cheap shot, but the rest was sincere)
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on February 08, 2008, 06:11 AM:
 
There was a time, early-mid 90's, when we used a stuffed coyote for a decoy. It's name was Frankenyote. The real McCoy so to speak. Very mixed results. Maybe the tail position was wrong? Probably should be to the side in somewhat of a flagging position. Is a sitting coyote in a nonreceptive position?

Dennis
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 08, 2008, 06:13 AM:
 
I use a decoy quite a bit(jack rabbit). Gets a bonus coyote every once in awhile. Typical reaction is just to stop and stare. Some coyotes do flare from it, but they never go far, they always stop to stare from what they think is a safe distance. Makes for easy shooting. Can't say that it has ever cost me a coyote that I know of. But I believe it has gotten me some coyotes that I would not have without it - second half of pairs and second shot opportunities after a miss, mostly. Have had times where first shot was a miss, and the coyote still stopped to look at the rabbit one more time. Same with killing first half with first shot and second half stops to stare one last time. Have also had them directly downwind, obviously very nervous about what they were smelling, but apparently unable to just run away from that rabbit.

Works for me...

We tried a full body mount coyote for a few late season trips, about 10 years ago. Had too many run away from it, so we bagged that idea. Might have been too aggressive of a posture on the mount or something. Who knows...

- DAA
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 08, 2008, 06:15 AM:
 
What are the chances? Greenside was posting same time as me, and both of us talking about how our coyote decoys weren't that hot, and both of us speculating on the same possible reason.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 08, 2008, 06:31 AM:
 
The only decoy I ever used was a tanned rabbit hide that I put a weasle ball in. I would hang it on the bottom strand of a fence so the ball was on the ground. It looked real good. It worked best on snow.

Some coyotes would set eye on it and make a beeline to the gun and others would stop and stare.

Foxes couldnt stand it and would attack. LOL But those goofy bastards arent too bright to start with.

I quit using it. I think the extra movement getting it all set up was doing more harm that the decoy was doing good.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 08, 2008, 07:21 AM:
 
scruffy,

Opportunistic shooters and road hunters are a very real concern, and one I shared with the manufacturers from the get-go. Especially since we had a young man killed earlier this season while lying amidst his spread of goose decoys when he was shot by a road hunter shooting at what he thought were geese with a rifle.

At the NE KS hunt, those guys were there and using a Lone Howler. At one point, on Saturday morning, a truck came down a nearby road and they told me that all three of them puckered up a bit when the reality of the risks hit them all at the same time.

What I have done is to stencil the word "DECOY" in four-inch tall block letters on one side of the coyote, and I place that side toward whichever side I feel an errant shot is most likely to come from. Of course, as I have told several friends, tongue in cheek, some of the yahoos in this area are so damned stupid that they might put ol' Leroy in the crosswires, see the word "DECOY", then tell their mouthbreathing buddies, "By Gawd,... look at that! Them cagey sumbitches are trying to make us think they're decoys now, so we won't shoot at them. Damn, they's smart!" WHAM!!!

As far as your suggestion that studies be done to await judgment on the decoy's effectiveness, that's a good idea, but impractical. Even doing every other stand like you suggest wouldn't work, because in order for the results to be truly accurate, two groups would have to be considered - those with the decoy, and those without. And each pair would have to be done under the exact same conditions, which is logistically impossible. Therefore, the products are introduced and only time will tell. Again, I think these deeks will work under certain circumstances, and at certain times of the year, but aren't going to be the silver bullet, 24-7-365. The user has to know enough about what he's doing to have a good idea when they'll work, and when they won't.

[ February 08, 2008, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 08:49 AM:
 

quote:

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As far as your suggestion that studies be done to await judgment on the decoy's effectiveness, that's a good idea, but impractical. Even doing every other stand like you suggest wouldn't work, because in order for the results to be truly accurate, two groups would have to be considered - those with the decoy, and those without. And each pair would have to be done under the exact same conditions, which is logistically impossible. Therefore, the products are introduced and only time will tell.

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Hey a guy can dream of impartial testing reports can't he? Impractical or not LOL? Maybe one day comsumer reports will start rating predator hunting gear???

And speaking of the decoy's effectiveness. Calvin helped win the contest with I assume the minaska e-caller that also had a prey decoy attached. The other magazine writer you mentioned that had two bobcats come in to the decoy hissing also had a prey decoy glued to his coyote decoy's nose.

Does the coyote decoy's effectiveness seem to increase when a prey decoy is also placed with him or near him?

DAA and Greenside, and many others over the years, have noted a coyote decoy scaring some coyotes away, and in this thread theorizing that it was the posture. Is the addition of a prey decoy lesson the number that will get spooked, or is the posture of this decoy such that it doesn't spook that many?

And did an e-caller placed with the decoy seem to help the effectiveness any?

I know, alot of questions, and if your article covers it just tell me to buy it. I'll try my best to find it. However I haven't found anywhere in Iowa that carries predator hunting magazine this year (the magazine I assume it's going into?). Last year it was at my local walmart and the barnes and nobles. This year it's at neither...

Personally (my opinions to follow, which aren't worth anything LOL...), if a coyote has ever had a bad experience coming to the sound of a distressed animal it's looking for the predator causing the distressing and/or it's circling to smell the predator causing of the distressing. If the coyote sees or smells an owl or a fox or a stray cat the coyote will react accordingly, likely coming in to take the dinner plate from the other predator. If the coyote coming in sees or smells a bigger domestic dog or human he'll likely leave because he likely doesn't need dinner that bad to risk getting hurt or killed. If the coyote sees or smells another coyote it depends on where the approaching coyote falls in the pecking order, his past experiences taking dinners from other coyotes, how hungry he is (fall buffet verses January sub zero ice coating the ground for a week) the approaching coyote might come in or he might flare off. A double would be more likely to come in verses flare off under this thoery.

And of course there is always "curiosity", which sometimes comes from sensory overload, that causes coyotes to do strange things breaking out of the molds we shove them in, like the coyote standing downwind of you and you swung around on and shot while it stood there looking at the decoy and you while his little brain is possibly overloaded with stimuli.

In the end, based on how I think things work, this decoy will cause some coyotes to flare off. It will over load some coyotes in some situations and allow for shots on some coyotes that normally wouldn't get shot. It will trigger a pair or dominant single too see the cause of the distressed animal and come in to take the dinner plate. So it will "work", but like you said, not in every situation, and unfortunately much of it's effectiveness is determined by the coyotes responding to the call and where on the totum pole they sit.

With all that said, any insider news of a fox decoy on the horizon? Maybe a hawk or owl? Maybe a little puppy dog? Any predator lower down on the food chain than a coyote?

later,
scruffy

[ February 08, 2008, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on February 08, 2008, 09:01 AM:
 
Lance, Tell Flambeau to make that thing look like it is feeding on something. Turkey decoys started out in an alert position, and when someone finally got the bright idea to make them look like they were eating they became more affective. In my small brain it seems logical that the most comfortable sight to a hungry coyote would be the sight of a feeding coyote.

Please have them send my royalty checks direct to my offshore account.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 08, 2008, 09:26 AM:
 
Scruffy,

In response to ninety percent of your questions, hell if I know.

In response to your remark that the Wilsons were using a Minaska (Makers of the Minaska Bandit electronic caller at www.minaskaoutdoors.com ) caller in conjunction with the decoy, my new standard response to that is that I don't have a comment. Otherwise, my editor gets hateful phone calls and e-mails regarding my conflicting affiliations with T&PC and our advertisers. I feel almost certain that any ol' electronic caller would suffice as effectively as what was being used in this instance. Having said that, it stands to reason that if you're taking precautions to draw the coyote's visual attention away from you to a decoy forty yards away, why - pray tell - would you use mouth calls to defeat the very purpose of the decoy competing with it for said coyote's attention? Just something to ponder.

quote:

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based on how I think things work, this decoy will cause some coyotes to flare off

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I agree, but with all due respect, blowing on a mouth call or hitting the "go" button on an electronic caller - regardless of make and model - tends to have the same effect at times in this area by this time of the year, to which I defer further supportive evidence to Leonard.

tl -

Good idea, and with the Lone Howler, you can set him up in three different postures: standing, sitting, or lying down. The legs are removable for whichever pose you want. And I guess a guy could always detach the front legs and put him nose down like he's eating something if he wanted. Hell, I even thought of tying a string to him, or hooking him to the remotely controlled other decoy I have so at the most opportune time, I could make the decoy fall to one side and pee all over itself in a show of total submission.

From what I've seen, they do bring in a few coyotes that other wise may not have been killable. Can I say that in absolute confidence? Nope. I can't re-live those moments and recreate the situation without the decoy. This ain't "Groundhog Day", but wouldn't that be nice.

In truth, my long-term diabolical plan is to do everything I can to encourage everyone out there getting into calling coyotes to buy all the different gizmos and gadgets. Each time something new comes out, it will be the "new, best thing" that you "just have to have". And you will. As each gets used by more and more guys, the coyotes will adapt and become less and less responsive until, eventually, no one will be able to call coyotes!!!

At some point, and who knows when this will be, the trend will abruptly reverse and the newest new idea will be to go minimalist - nothing but a call and you. The coyotes will never see you coming. And me? I'll be having one helluva garage sale! Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!

(Edited to add the Minaska website address, just because...)

[ February 08, 2008, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 08, 2008, 09:35 AM:
 
Oh,... one other thing. This piece is slated for T&PC in the next few months.

Now, if you guys wanna chastise me for writing pieces on new products and concepts being introduced to the predator calling world, feel free. I can take it, But before doing so, please understand that I've been writing for about fifteen years now. '92 was my first appearance in T&PC. One thing that has become painfully obvious as the industry grows is that you can only write so much about the same fundamental techniques. Like it or not, this sport is growing and changing. Very quickly. If I, and T&PC, were to choose to only cover the same old time tested and road proven basic techniques time and again, we wouldn't last very long. I'm not making that mistake again. Learned that lesson in '91 in my last gig as Chief Technical Writer for North America's largest buggy whip manufacturer. Once burned, lesson learned. Ya know?
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 08, 2008, 09:43 AM:
 
Decoys for Bobcats...Sure I will use an Enticer feather decoy once in a while.

For coyotes though I don't waste my time.Just one more thing to pack to a stand.Hell I have a hard enough time getting motivated enough to carry the FX5 to each stand.lol Is it costing me coyote maybe-maybe not, I can't really say for sure.But not really enough to make me decide to carry one to my stand.Plus if you shoot a coyote or two then it's a real pain in the ass carrying all that stuff back,and wastes more time that I could be calling.FWIW

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2008, 10:11 AM:
 
Well, maybe greenside and Dave have mentioned a little detail I should have previously? To just use a generic word like dek or decoy and ramble on, this can result in some misunderstanding. Since the original post concerns a coyote decoy and the object is targeting coyotes, it is a legitimate concern to discuss failures; those times when a coyote or a pair of coyotes reacted negatively. This is my concern, yeah sure, it may have helped once and hurt once; BFD. So you lug that awkward decoy hither and yon.

But, it is less common that a prey type decoy will be a negative influence on a coyote's reaction, but that has happened too. The problem I have in finding a place where the coyote can see it from a distance. If he doesn't see it until he bursts through the brush, well, you already have him in front of you, so shoot him already!

It's not that a decoy of that type (critter type)won't help, especially if there are cats in the area, it's the law of diminishing returns. Too much junk. A coyote decoy is a whole different situation.

Good hunting. LB

[ February 08, 2008, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 10:34 AM:
 

quote:

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In response to your remark that the Wilsons were using a Minaska (Makers of the Minaska Bandit electronic caller at www.minaskaoutdoors.com ) caller in conjunction with the decoy, my new standard response to that is that I don't have a comment. Otherwise, my editor gets hateful phone calls and e-mails regarding my conflicting affiliations with T&PC and our advertisers. I feel almost certain that any ol' electronic caller would suffice as effectively as what was being used in this instance. Having said that, it stands to reason that if you're taking precautions to draw the coyote's visual attention away from you to a decoy forty yards away, why - pray tell - would you use mouth calls to defeat the very purpose of the decoy competing with it for said coyote's attention? Just something to ponder.

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Actually, it looks like my comment on the caller kind of derailed my main point.

The minor point was that the e-caller attracted the coyotes attention to the decoy. Which kind of answers Leonards question of where to put it where the coyote can see it. You can put the decoy in an elevated place, as previously mentioned, and hope every coyote sees it and every truck hunter misses it, or you can put an e-caller under it and attract the coyotes attention to it with it's ears.

But the e-caller position was a minor point...

The major point/question was, is the coyote decoy alone as effective as the coyote decoy AND a prey decoy (be it a minaska, fox pro, predator supreme, tanned bunny, feather, cotton balls, etc)???

The contest win picture and the hissing bobcats example have both coyote decoy and prey decoy together. So was the combination of decoys more deadly? I assume an e-caller was under/near the decoy for the contest coyotes and hissing bobcat setups as well.

Just like there's a benefit to putting an e-caller under the coyote decoy (which I asume you did on your coyote, after "pondering" it as you suggested LOL), to get the approaching coyotes attention onto the decoy and keep it off the caller, is there the same level of benefit to adding a prey decoy to the setup?

As was mentioned, a feeding coyote decoy might be better than a standing coyote decoy. Well, is pulling a coyote decoys front legs off so it's head down more effective than adding a prey decoy?

Maybe we need a big foam dead cow to put the coyote decoy next to?

Part of me is curious to know how much better the setup with coyote and prey decoys used together with an e-caller works compared to just the coyote decoy and e-caller alone compared to coyote decoy and hand calls compared to just hand calls or just ecaller? What is worth carrying to each stand???

And the other part of me, is where does this end? A foam dead rotting cow with a coyote decoy or three feeding on it?

Is coyote calling going to be like waterfowl calling with a 'decoy spread'?

For some I'm sure it will be. In the end I'm curious to know how much better the bigger spreads would work. Even if I never use one because I answer for myself that it isn't worth it.

The predator calling world is certainly changing, and I don't fault anyone for writing about it or getting caught up in it. I'm not blasting you for doing it, so please don't take my posts wrong. I've bought lots of gimmicks, and might buy more, it's a "hobby".

later,
scruffy

[ February 08, 2008, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2008, 10:43 AM:
 
That's a good one! Latest trend, a decoy spread.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 08, 2008, 10:50 AM:
 
Foam dead cow. That's funnier than hell. But, I'll be sure to pass it on.
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 08, 2008, 10:54 AM:
 
And don't forget to put the lion's share of the decoys on the upwind side of the blind and leave a hole in front to encourage them to land in range.....

Oh, wait! That IS waterfowl hunting...

Just fun-ing. I won't be buying a coyote decoy any time soon. Because of the way that I hunt it is a rare day where I can see a coyote that can not be shot(at?).

[ February 08, 2008, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: JoeF ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2008, 10:54 AM:
 
I always thought that Jack Robert's practice of using a "fake" plastic trash bag, out in the middle of a field, for shooting crows was clever as hell.
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 08, 2008, 11:13 AM:
 
I didn't come up with this idea/recipe for crows but I know the guy who did:

Fresh snow, one gray boot sock, one bottle of water stained red with food coloring. Stain snow liberally. Call crows, shoot freely until thoroughly done.

Works, too.
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 11:17 AM:
 

quote:

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Foam dead cow. That's funnier than hell. But, I'll be sure to pass it on.

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lol, I'd laugh if someone made one.

Of course it might not be as strange as "predator pile". Have you written an article on that yet?

later,
scruffy
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 08, 2008, 11:36 AM:
 
I'll bite. What is "predator pile"?
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 11:48 AM:
 
It's a pile of bait in a bag I guess. It's onsale at cabelas for a dollar off, must not be selling well?

Here's the link to take a look.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0054318228954a&navCount=1&podId=0054318&parentId=cat20835&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat2071 2-cat20835&catalogCode=IJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20835&hasJS=true

What will they think of next?

later,
scruffy
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 11:50 AM:
 
From the description:

Coax predators within shooting range or lure them into your trap with this lifelike gut pile made up of a highly concentrated hunger stimulant. It's the first and only predator attractant that is edible and smells like a fresh gut pile.

later,
scruffy

[ February 08, 2008, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 08, 2008, 11:54 AM:
 
Some famous circus guy made a statement about a sucker being born every minute. This falls in that category.

If a guy has time to watch a "pile" like that I can certainly recommend a staw bale topped with food scraps and bacon grease. More fun than can be imagined. Cheaper, too.

Who has the audacity to market something that they claim smells like a gut pile?
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 08, 2008, 11:56 AM:
 
Edible, huh? Are these the same guys that make the panties that are marketed using the same claim?
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 08, 2008, 11:59 AM:
 
There's gotta be a magazine article on it right? Somewhere? To market it?

Edit: Maybe the predator pile could be used with the coyote decoy? Pull the front legs off the decoy and put it face down in the pile like it's eating? It would have the look and smell of a coyote eating a gut pile?

later,
scruffy

[ February 08, 2008, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 08, 2008, 12:10 PM:
 
I think that the 'Predator Pile' is an artificial gut pile.

I may consider getting one of these mounted coyote dekes. Even if it's more trouble than it's worth for hunting, it would look really cool on the patio, or would be great posed in the background of photos.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2008, 12:12 PM:
 
Be the first to use your coyote decoy without the mallard. Spice it up with the edible panties, instead.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 08, 2008, 02:37 PM:
 
Do the edible panties go on the coyote deke?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 08, 2008, 04:19 PM:
 
The problems here with calling coyotes Andy is they don't even want to come in for a look, if they did i would proably try a decoy then...
I've been talking with other callers in the state and from what i found out most of the coyotes are only going to come out looking for a screaming rabbit only under darkness. One caller i spoke with gave me an example of what the coyotes are doing.

This caller was makeing a stand just before dark along the edge of some CRP, He called for about 20 min. and nothing showed, as it got dark the moon and the snow gave him enough lite to see for a few hundred yards so he continued to call for an extra 15 min. A coyote finally walks out of the grass and stretches his legs and then a second pops out and does the same. Both coyotes just stood there totaly relaxed as if nothing was happening and then the caller shoots them both...
From what he has told me this has happened more than once, and now this guy only calls at night..
I did a suvery on P.M. for callers that hunted the southern half of the state, i asked how many stands are made and the results and also had them give out the general area that they call in.
Hunters that lived in the S-E corner are getting 1 coyote out of 10-20 stands made. This area by the way has big sections and lots of cover. The next group that was haveing some success was the guys from western side of state, which again has big sections with rolling hills and good cover, and less populated by farms. Now the callers that live close to my general area are lucky to call in and kill 2 coyotes a year with anywhere from 20 stands to a 100 stands made each year... Anyway for whats its worth i still go out and try to call one in, if it ever happens great, if not no big deal i'll get them anyway...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2008, 04:45 PM:
 
There must be something wrong with your spread, Tim?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 09, 2008, 03:50 AM:
 
Using a prey decoy results in more rifle distance shots, not using results in more shotgun distance shots. No testing involved, just loose, general observation.

[ February 09, 2008, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by canadiansongdog (Member # 2304) on February 09, 2008, 08:53 AM:
 
I bought a motorized decoy. Don't know if it will help, but it's worth a try.

When I call ducks I use decoys. So I figure I might aswell try using a decoy for coyotes.

I don't think a decoy is necessary for a good caller. But someone like me who needs a bit of help might benefit from having one until my calling gets better.

This is a similar discussion that duck hunters have all the time while talking about motorized decoys. A good caller will still shoot a limit of ducks without them, but a terrible caller can use one and still have a good shoot. I don't own a Mojo duck, but I plan on having atleast one.

Mind you I know next to nothing about hunting coyotes, and am as new as it gets to the sport. But I do hunt a lot of ducks. I'm just using what I know from ducks, and trying the same techniques while out for coyotes.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2008, 10:42 AM:
 
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, canadiansongdog. Glad to have you on board.

What tastes better, coyote or duck?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 09, 2008, 05:44 PM:
 
Like Anne Heche, I can go either way on this one.

Most consumers won't purchase one specific item just because someone told them that they can't live without it. Hunter's are a different breed and don't always use their heads. Most hunters are impulsive.
Then there are those that, even in the face of irrefutable empiracal evidence, will scoff at the notion that some "widget" will work.

I was and to a degree still am, as bass fisherman, the anything to get an edge type. The problem was that after a while, with so many gadgets to choose from, I would switch baits and rods so often that I could never get a pattern down. I would catch a few with lure 'A' but I KNEW deep down inside that what the fish REALLY wanted was lure 'B'. Of course, when lure 'B' failed to produce it was because I was using rod 'C' and everyone that had ever fished with me knew that rod 'C' had a curse on it.
I learned from my mistakes in fishing, so that when I took up coyote hunting, I knew that too many choices in gear would definitely cause errors in judgement. Relying too heavily on gadgets in the beginning can be a hindrance rather than a benefit. You soon find out in hunting and fishing that what catches the fish and calls the coyotes is not the gadgets, it's so much more than that, yet astoundingly basic.
The gadgets and gizmos can add to the hunt but when they start taking away from the desired results is when you have to take a step back and consider their worthiness. The old timers (not me) know this but some of the newer guys coming out don't. What it really takes to get coyotes in on a regular basis, is skill, stealth and woodsmanship, desertmanship junglemanship, mountainsmanship... depending on locale.

What works for Cletus and Scooter down the road may not necessarily mean it is right for me. I, like most of you, try to make equipment choices based on what I feel will compliment my hunting style and/ or make my time out more enjoyable. We are all big boys and I am quite certain that we can make the simple decision on whether or not a decoy could, has or will benefit us in the end.

[ February 09, 2008, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 09, 2008, 05:55 PM:
 
I'm sorry, I kinda lost the gist of your post when you said you were like Anne Heche...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2008, 06:15 PM:
 
Yeah, me too! Thanks Lance. I'm too nice a guy for a cheap shot like that.

quote:

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consider their worthiness.

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