This is topic Up hill or not? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Relentless (Member # 2140) on January 17, 2008, 10:54 AM:
I've read in various places around the net that, "coyotes won't come to the call up hill."
After reading this, I an struck by what I don,t see, and that is a rebuttal of some sort.
Are there lots of guys out there who believe coyotes won't come/hunt up hill?
Could be, but maybe not around here.
Are those who have varying opinions just sitting on their elevated positions quietly snickering as they watch the coyotes coming up the draw?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 11:09 AM:
Cripes. That's like "Cover scent won't work".
Either you heard it wrong, or somebody else repeated something they didn't understand?
Me personally. I have had many instances where A FRIGGIN' BOBCAT will not climb to your elevated position, but can easily be called down from a high mountain. Even this is widely misunderstood. Some people don't know what I mean, and some people do, but forget about rolling hills or varying terrain. A cat will do that stuff, no problem. And, for the most part, you will never see all the cats that won't climb up to your position because they ain't moving. At night, you do see them and you begin to understand what I'm talking about. It's just far easier to call a cat down, than attempting to call him up a steep incline.
So, whatever you heard about coyotes and hills is total bullshit, regardless of who said it or who didn't understand the message?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 11:13 AM:
So, do not set up a stand on the top of a mountain and think you will call a bobcat from the valley floor below you. You would do far better to set up on the base of said mountain and call those cats down to you. A bonus is that the cat that is already down there will also come in to your call.
Coyotes? That's the screwyest thing I have ever heard! LB
Posted by Relentless (Member # 2140) on January 17, 2008, 11:33 AM:
I figure you give a coyote enough time he'll learn to use ropes and pitons if necessary.--- Maybe not all that much time.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 17, 2008, 12:45 PM:
I agree with Leonard. I've called a few cats in my life, never called one up a steep hill. Personally, I think they are to lazy not to mention stupid.
Coyotes!!! I've killed a few of them too, they would come to your calling from the sky if they could fly.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 01:01 PM:
Of course, it's not the end of the world, if you have a cat below you, that won't come a step closer. If you have the right gear, and know how to do it....you can walk him up, and get a fairly decent shot. But, don't tell anyone, they will probably get that screwed up, too?
Good hunting. LB
edit: PS, I want names. Who's saying this crap?
[ January 17, 2008, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 17, 2008, 02:12 PM:
Anecdote of coyotes coming uphill. I was hunting deer on the last day of the season with a crusty old wolfer who made me promise not to shoot at coyotes and scare the deer. No shooting at coyotes unless it was a sure thing shot. We both hunted fur.
From a valley road drop point I crossed a flat field, hit the steep and climbed through pine forest toward a ridge line half a mile above. It got light when I was about 200 yards up the hill, and through a hole in the trees I saw a pair of coyotes a quarter mile away in the field below. I kept climbing.
Up about 400 yards on the steep face, which was cliff in places, I came to a skinny lane of grass down the hill laid out like a custom made calling stand. Couldn't resist, so I sat down and blew the hand call. The coyotes disappeared but I could tell where they were by watching two horses in the field that pointed the coyotes like bird dogs.
Three coyotes burst into the bottom of the grass lane, 60 yards below me and stopped. I had the rifle over my knees, scope steady on one of the coyotes but decided, "Naw, its not a SURE thing shot."
The coyotes resumed their uphill run and spread out a little as they got inside of 40 feet. At 15 feet the lead one started to shy suddenly and caught a .30 165 grain. A second one stopped out about 30 feet to look back at its partner and took the second round. The third one never stopped and I never shot at it.
Good thing I had fur on my packboard when I met my partner on the end of the ridge about noon.
Those three coyotes ran and loped steep uphill for several hundred yards coming to a call.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 04:01 PM:
Good story, Okanagan. But, where is that message board where this would be BIG NEWS ?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 17, 2008, 04:22 PM:
Ha!! If it wasn`t for uphill coyotes I`d seldom shoot one, I like to be up where I can see.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on January 17, 2008, 05:52 PM:
It also depends on what a guy considers uphill. somebody from Kansas is going to have a whole different idea of what uphill is from somebody in the Rocky Mountain regions.
I know this topic came up awhile back and TA17 posted some pics of what he condsidered calling coyotes uphill. From my persepectiive of his pics, it would take a coyote less than 10 seconds to go up one of the hills at a lope and wasn't what I consider calling them uphill.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 17, 2008, 06:48 PM:
LOL Boy, this bit of gossip has really gotten Leonard going! LOL I'd love to get a name here from the perpetrater just to see what Leonard is gonna do to him!!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ January 17, 2008, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 06:56 PM:
Yeah, don't be pushing the kid's buttons!
Danny, got your package today. Thanks for the thoughtful gift. I hope it shoots as good as it looks!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 17, 2008, 07:09 PM:
Coyotes hate hills. All coyotes and all hills don't mix!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 07:36 PM:
uh huh, and what you don't know, could fill a book.....
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 17, 2008, 07:38 PM:
Glad you like it Leonard. Have you tried all 3 barrels? Its really amazing, each barrel feels about the same weight and swing very smoothly. Very well balanced!
[ January 17, 2008, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2008, 09:19 PM:
I don't know how to thank you, Loco, but just for starters, your membership is paid up, this year!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 18, 2008, 07:10 AM:
Relentless, if you read that wisdom on the 'net it is obviously true.
I read on the 'net that you must set up with the wind in your face and the sun at your back. Because prevailing breezes here are out of the west I can only call in the early mornings.
If the breeze shifts 45 degrees or more, I have to quit and go home.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2008, 09:40 AM:
Thanks a lot, Higgins. This is how those legends get started. By tomorrow, someone will be repeating humorous and bogus info. If Higgins said it; it must be true?
I really should give you a time out, or take away your vowels!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Relentless (Member # 2140) on January 18, 2008, 10:24 AM:
Ok, ok, I think the myth busters have pretty much put that one to bed and rightfully so, but that brings up a whole other set of questions.
We agree that coyotes will, in fact, respond up hill and for the most part bob cats won’t, Why not?
Is it because they’re lazy or stupid or a combination of the two?
If a cat lives in the mountains where there is precious little flat ground, he must be hunting side hill, and if he is at least smart enough to keep the sum at his back, he must be headed around the mountain pretty much in the same direction. Assuming that he has been doing this for millions of years, shouldn’t evolution have caused his legs on the down hill side to grow longer than his legs on the up hill side? Damn now here’s another problem. Look at a lynx. His back legs look longer than his front. Perfect for walking up hill.
Are lynx harder to call up hill or down? Damn, mass confusion.
I though this predator hunting was supposed to be easy.
And now the credibility of the inter net has been called into question. What’s happening?
I think I’ll grab my rifle and go hunting.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2008, 11:35 AM:
I got your email, Relent. Don't worry about pissing anyone off, and I don't delete (hardly) anything without serious and persistant provocation.
Okay, coyotes do, in fact, respond quite well, uphill. Regardless of whoever does or doesn't agree with me, I will stick my neck out and call bullshit. And, it's also true, as said Lonny, that (not to pick on poor Kansas) but some of these guys don't know what "uphill" is, actually.
Lynx, Lynx cats, and bobcats all are reluctant to climb a grade to approach a call. I'm trying to think of any lions I have called, possible exceptions, but maybe they will, come to think of it? However, gotta be the right sounds, in any case.
Never saw a lynx, (in the field) but cats are cats. They all like a position of height, observing the domain, during their rest periods.
I can tell you this much. During the summer, with young critters romping about, it is very common to see bobcats working the washes and drainages, where you don't expect to see them....speaking of western conditions, which is all I know about?
Good hunting. LB
PS, I'd like to see what Steve Craig thinks about lions climbing uphill? I think they are far more inclined than a bobcat?
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 18, 2008, 01:39 PM:
What I don't know can fill a pamphlet or leaflet not a book. Come on give me more credit than that, DUDE!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2008, 02:01 PM:
Don't force me to put it to a vote, Dude! There's no shame in not knowing a whole lot. LB
edit: and coyotes, neither.
edit: I crack myself up, sometimes.
[ January 18, 2008, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 18, 2008, 04:16 PM:
I don't everything about coyotes but I know enough to get me by. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
As far as knowing other things I will play you in a game of Trivial Pursuit anyday! And not the Silver Screen Edition... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
edit: Dude!
[ January 18, 2008, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 18, 2008, 07:16 PM:
When I hunted the Rockies in Colorado with Higgins a couple years ago, there was a time or two that we were partway up the moutainside. Were we inadvertantly excluding half the cat population from responding to our calls? Or, not?
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 20, 2008, 09:46 PM:
In all seriousness, I'd like anybody's experience on calling cats uphill. Sometimes we can call on ground with moderate slopes and elevations, but a lot of our calling is in steep, big mountains. I've had some bobcats come uphill, but I have no idea how far they came.
The one in the pic below, where he stopped moving after the shot, was on a big mountain side. The slope in the photo goes downhill for at least 1/3 of a mile from this spot and uphill for more than a mile, topping out above timberline. I shot the cat on a small bench about 30 feet above where he's lying, and he came uphill onto the bench. But I have no idea how far he came uphill, or whether he came from above and looped below the call for the last bit of his approach. My experience on cougars and lynx is inconclusive. Lynx seem to like big flat plateaus and cougars seem to favor canyons and breaks.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 21, 2008, 05:55 AM:
Dang, that thick cover is as brutal as the Ozarks.
It is important to note that Leonard said only that it is more difficult to CALL a cat uphill.
Tyler and I setup at the base of a saddle between two volcanic hills that were covered with broken rock and a few small bushes overlooking a wash and extensive cresote flats. We sat back to back to cover all 360.
As Tyler was calling I saw movement several hundred yards away at the top of the hill and watched as a bobcat trotted in a zig-zag from bush to bush. The last bush was 150 yards away and that is where it sat down to watch.
I've seen a lot of fox and coyotes come up hills to the call, I've never seen a cat come up hill from very far.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 21, 2008, 06:26 AM:
Ah, we don't have many hills around here anyway. Not to the extent that Okanagan does or those in the Rockies or Appalachians. We have slopes.
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 21, 2008, 09:51 AM:
Rich, that bench actually reminded me of the Ozarks.
The only bobcat I've ever been able to see approach from a long ways was in Southern California and he came downhill a good 400 yards starting from a ledge on a cliff above us.
Hadn't thought much about the uphill factor till this thread. The places I've called lynx have always been a flat of some kind, even in the mountains, though I tracked one down a road beside a creek in the bottom of a deep V canyon once, and another in a rough steep sided vocanic bowl about timberline, but both places had a bench or plateau several miles across nearby.
I suspect we had a cougar come uphill out of a steep canyon to a call, but we didn't see it nor circle to check tracks in the steep slick snow at dusk. Have definitely had them come downhill and across flat benches.
Hmmm. Kind of pondering this. Obviously calling them downhill is preferable.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2008, 10:07 AM:
I am at a loss to explain this any better than I already have? Any time, discussing predators, or any animal behavior, the message gets lost in all the contradiction and comments. If you think that my observations are half baked, bogus and untrue, and it's because you once saw a bobcat move toward you on an incline of any sort, uphill; then you have all the information you need. We are not dealing in absolutes, anything is possible, I suppose?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 21, 2008, 10:49 AM:
Leonard, I'm missing something here I think. Unless I'm misreading your post I sense some heat and don't have a clue why, but I've apparently said something off base. To me, this has been a casual yarning about an aspect of predator behaviour that I hadn't thought much about. Other than to say I've seen coyotes come uphill, I've just been musing aloud about cat behaviours I've seen, without coming to any conclusion except what I learned here from you and others: calling cats downhill is way more likely.
As far as I know I haven't disagreed with anyone except the nameless source of the idea that coyotes won't come uphill. It had been several days since I read through the thread and had forgotten your earlier post about cats not coming uphill when I posted my query, or would have acknowledged that, and should have.
Yes, good hunting to you as well.
[ January 21, 2008, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 21, 2008, 11:05 AM:
As several have mentioned, maybe we should define uphill. Here's a pic I've posted before of a coyote taken at a cat stand last year. Bench on a mountain side, expected a cat to come either from the bench itself or more likely down from the timbered mountainside above. If he wasn't too far down, I thought one might pop up from below the bench but didn't expect that. Anything that doesn't stick out above timberline is generally considered a hill here, by hunters anyway. Most access is from the bottom so the majority of calling is to critters above the call.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2008, 11:21 AM:
Don't take it personal, Ok. I haven't. I thought about it right after I posted and thought somebody would think that I sounded like a spoiled brat? Probably accurate, but it is due to frustration. I know what I mean to say, but I can't explain all the exceptions people will encounter in their own personal data banks.
There will probably be somebody somewhere that will experience something down the road and maybe it will click? Thinking about it; my experience is somewhat limited, as well. I don't call forest and never called a bobcat east of Wyoming. So, what happens with Ohio bobcats, or Pennsylvania bobcats, I can't say? You must have mountains before the(my) message begins to make any sense at all. Even then, I suppose with all the people reading this, somebody will have an experience or conviction that does not coincide with what I think? Maybe it is good enough that we kick it around, even if it gets so distorted that somebody, somewhere misreads the tea leaves and decides that coyotes are hard to call uphill?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 21, 2008, 11:27 AM:
Nothing is written in stone. Not having many mountains nearby I will have no input past being a smartass. I could claim that they will NEVER scale a hill to eat but it would be a pipe dream. Info could come in handy if I travel N S E W
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 21, 2008, 11:52 AM:
Leonard, thanks for your generosity of spirit. This kind of discussion works better in a pick-up between hunting stands. This thread will make me a better cat caller. And FWIW, the coyote in the photo above came downhill.
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 21, 2008, 01:44 PM:
I got to thinking about the ‘cats. Do you think they might go for elevation the way a coyote will go for the wind? I assume the night shift would see it if it happened often.
Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on January 21, 2008, 11:09 PM:
We call a few cats in KY every year. I will haft to say that out of all the cats I can only think of one that came up hill and that wasnt very far to get to the call.
Most of the time we are set up down in the hollows next to some kind of water. With rock out cropings or such. Low land swamps, or low areas that hold water seem to be the best.
Same with the cats called out west, just never gave it much thought, always just set up on them to call them down. Just never gave it much thought? Other than general rules for me, longer stands, constant sound, and thick cover.
Truth is....Why walk up when they will come down? Kind of the way I always looked at it I guess.
Brent
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 22, 2008, 07:06 AM:
Okanagan,
There is my new favorite photo. Gorgeous scenery and a beautiful coyote, to boot. That would make a dandy magazine cover. Should be a Sherpa in the pic.
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 22, 2008, 09:19 AM:
Thank you, Rich. Good stuff in the viewfinder to work with.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 22, 2008, 05:26 PM:
I agree with Rich. That is one splendid photo. I hunted with a friend for coyotes up in the mountains abovce Boulder one time. Let me tell everyone here as you obviously already know. Hunting those hillsis a dang awful lot of work just to get a coyote. Man, you are much braver than me. I worked as hard for a mountain coyote as I did bighorn sheep hunting. Never again. I prefer the plains.
edited: to let you know that photo makes one heck of a nice desktop. Speaking from personal experience.
[ January 22, 2008, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 22, 2008, 07:19 PM:
Rich,
LOL Sherpas. I read that earlier and just glanced over it. Tonite I looked it up.
The Sherpa (Tibetan: "eastern people", from shar "east" + pa "people") are an ethnic group from the most mountainous region of Nepal, high in the Himalayas.
That's funny!
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 22, 2008, 10:38 PM:
I always knew Okanogan had more to tell, than he was sayin'...
A red bobcat in a fern gully, and a mountain coyote?
Yer my new hero dude.
Krusty 
Posted by rainshadow1 (Member # 899) on January 22, 2008, 10:44 PM:
Hey, I saw tracks of a pair the other day!!! Closest I've ever come to seeing Coyotes in the Steep! (They were headed downhill, out of that junk! They're not Dumb!)
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