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Author
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Topic: howling them in?
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coyote bait
PAKMAN
Member # 1714
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posted December 29, 2007 11:37 AM
havent had any luck doing,this. do you think you have to be real good at it, for it to work, or not. would like to hear your opinion. have called them in with a distress call .but would like to get one howling. having fun in Frankfort michigan. Ken
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coyote bait Be as good as the best ,and better than the rest.
Posts: 5 | From: Frankfort MI. | Registered: Sep 2007
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted December 29, 2007 12:01 PM
Sounding really bad doesn't make it any harder but sounding like the Pavarotti of the coyote world won't make it any easier, either. A lot, in my mind, will depend on the predator hunting or calling pressure in the area. Sounding better in a highly pressured area may make a subtle difference.
But having said that, some coyotes, in some places, just plain don't like to howl back. They won't howl to a mediocre POS howl or a "rainbow just above the dew soaked grass on a sunny spring morning" howl. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I don't care too much if I don't get a vocal response. Sure it's fun to get them to reciprocate vocally, but showing up is the main goal.
[ December 29, 2007, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 29, 2007 12:57 PM
When I was in Indiana, howling was a good tool to use to locate groups in the dark, but wasn't dependable for bringing them in ( Unless you were totally unexpecting them to come in ) It was about a useful as a siren.
I used howls ( or a siren ) to locate them before daylight, then came back after daylight, to those areas where I had gotten a response and used distress calls.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 29, 2007 04:13 PM
coyote bait,
Did you notice that Tim Behle is from the Mcneal sector? No need to locate coyotes over there, I mean the coyotes are everywhere! Talk about coyote dense territory, man oh man! Coyotes will often approach the howls of a strange coyote in their territory. Non aggressive sounding howls usually work best.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 29, 2007 05:28 PM
As with what Tim said, lone howls and improvised yip howls are great for getting vocal responses at night, but you have to wait for them to answer. Sometimes, it takes them 15 to 20 minutes, but is usually within 5-10. Occasionally, if you catch them at home, they'll light right up, but that's not common for me.
As far as howls for responses, I have a great deal of luck with howling as a primary calling tactic, especially from now through the remainder of the fur season, and later, during run up to denning. But, you have to have realistic expectations. A coyote responding to a howl doesn't run right into your mustache like a desparately hungry animal responding to distress. Their responses are usually slow, calculated and directed toward getting downwind of me. Just this morning, the only coyote we called came to howling. For five minutes, my gunner could see the top of its head and its ears at about 400 yards, just over the crest of a hill. I was running distress sounds through the Bandit and it just wasn't getting her over the hump. I interjected a short series of ki-yi's and in she came. Very pensively, she approached to about 250 yards when she jumped a hawk from the grass. She went over, investigated what the hawk had caught, then turned her attention back to us when I switched over to a slightly different jack distress sound. She came down to about 225 yards when she seemed to catch our wind and turned abruptly as if to leave. Matt shot, missed, and the coyote turned toward us and started down the fence toward me. I lined up on her and was going to wait for a closer shot when she spun around and headed back the other way. My first shot at 200 took off most of her right hip and hind leg. She begand spinning and raising hell and I waited for her to slow. When she did, I put a second round through her chest. She was responding in typical fashion to howls. Head down, slow trot, if not walking. Occasionally raising her head but otherwise, very nonchalant. I kill probably half or more of my coyotes over howls and rarely rely on distress alone this late in the season. You just have to be patient for responses because by just using a howl, it seems I've set a twenty-minute time clock on the response. Just my experience, FWIW.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted December 29, 2007 07:26 PM
In my neck of the woods if you are going to howl, then you have to think Bobcat. They tend to come in as Lance said,head down and sticking tight to cover. None of the head on charges with the I am here lets eat that you get with distress calls.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 29, 2007 10:53 PM
I'm having a little trouble here...
"Just this morning, the only coyote we called came to howling....
I was running distress sounds through the Bandit and it just wasn't getting her over the hump. I interjected a short series of ki-yi's and in she came....
...I switched over to a slightly different jack distress sound.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but jackrabbit distress, ki-yi's (canine distress), and a different jackrabbit distress, aren't on the list of howling sounds I know?
And to have them playing, before of after any actual howling sounds, totally contaminates any results that might have been attributed to said howling. Too many know variables, howling, hawk, and distress (prey and canine). And even more unknown.
While this coyote may have seemed pensive, and "like others before"... only she knew why, and she ain't tellin'.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 30, 2007 04:18 AM
Got me there, Krusty. I failed to note that I started that stand with six lone howls (actually two lone howls and four lost puppy howls), then after we spotted the ears on the horizon, tried to work her in with distress. It wasn't until I gave a short ki-yi that she really committed to her approach.
Fact is, if you watch their body language closely, and you see enough of them approaching, they do essentially "talk" to you. In this case, as is the case with many others, Stevie Wonder could have seen and made a good guess as to what this coyote was thinking. Not always, but often. She was thinking, "There is another coyote over there. We're in my house. I think I'll check this out well to avoid getting my ass kicked for running into things like a fool."
For anyone that has seen a coyote respond like this and who might say that you can't deduce their thoughts from what you're seeing, fine. Why do you insist on using that sound in that situation time and time again if you think you don't know what they're response to it is/ will be?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 30, 2007 11:35 AM
Lance,
Okay, so she thought there was another coyote in the area, the canine distress sound alone could have conveyed that information (so could one of those invisible territory lines).
Why not start every stand with a ki-yi?
Or... an esterous chirp? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
You said it yourself, the howling isn't what tripped her trigger, at all...
Two lone howls, and (gawd this name bugs me) four "lost" puppy howls, only had her hunkered down...
(*How do you sound lost? How does it vary from hungry, or scared, or I'm top dog, puppy howls? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) )
"It wasn't until I gave a short ki-yi that she really committed to her approach. "
There's no telling where she started, "over the hump", or what she was doing (sleeping, or approaching)?
She apparently had no intention of "coming" to your howling or your rabbit sounds.
Being female, the ki-yi might have been a maternal response, and completely disconnected from the howling.
There's no concrete in your story, as it applies to the subject of howling, for me.
Personally, I have never had a coyote show up to howling alone.
I have had coyotes show up with a mix of howling and distress sounds, and with distress alone.
So... in my own limited experience, howling by itself, is not an effective method of calling coyotes.
Distress sounds are, effective, with or without the howling.
I insist in adding howls to my distress sounds, because nobody has proven it doesn't work, and as an anticipatory thing... it's the possibility that "it might work?" and I might get a vocal response (*proving there even ARE coyotes in a given area, which is often the real challenge, with population densities as low as one coyote in 20sq miles).
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted December 30, 2007 12:24 PM
It is possible she had rabies, and wonted to bite Lance on the ass no mater what he was saying.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted December 30, 2007 02:20 PM
There's no concrete in your story, as it applies to the subject of howling, for me.
The coyote is dead... Whether the howls helped or hurt is in the pudding.
Do we know which sound it came to, exactly, or does it even matter? Why is piss yellow one time and clear the next?
Personally, I have never had a coyote show up to howling alone. So... in my own limited experience, howling by itself, is not an effective method of calling coyotes.
Interesting...
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 30, 2007 03:52 PM
"So... in my own limited experience, howling by itself, is not an effective method of calling coyotes."
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Sorry Krusty, but you get an F on that statement.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 30, 2007 05:55 PM
I think Krusty has been studying up on some Scott's old posts!
Come on Lance, You're not going to let some liberal whip up on your ass are you? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Smithers, the difference is Vitamin B or 6 beers.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted December 30, 2007 06:56 PM
Thanks, Tim B. I knew there would BE an answer for that one.
I was also going to mention the Huberous nature of the post. It was spot on, Krusty, but you forgot a bit of lemming and sheep jargon. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 30, 2007 07:02 PM
So if howling never works... how have distress sounds treated ya' Krusty? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Coyote Bait: If you've figured out how to call coyotes with distress sounds, just begin using a howler in moderation on similar stands in late January/early February and I believe you'll have some luck.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted December 30, 2007 08:15 PM
Krusty: good post and you made some good points.
The only thing i disagree on is the howling. I have started stands with just 2-3 lone howls and have had them come in with just the howling. Most of the coyotes that responded came in at full charge and stopped at 2-300 yds with a couple that came in slow but not sneaky like a cat. On a few stands a pair would be called in, one would charge in and the second coyote would just hang back and watch the outcome of the first coyote. When i call i like to keep it simple so i know what sound brought them in and then continue to use that sound all week.
Just like the chirp, if its a hot sound why use anything else. T.A.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5614 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 30, 2007 08:27 PM
"It's possible she had rabies..."
Ronnie,
That's totally possible too, and one of the unknown variables.
Lots and lots of things are possible...
"The coyote is dead... Whether the howls helped or hurt is in the pudding."
Smithers,
You're catching on now... because there's no proof in the words.
"Do we know which sound it came to, exactly, or does it even matter?"
No with so many sounds to choose from, we sure don't.
It only matters if we are using this example as empirical evidence of the value of howling as an audible attractant.
Rich,
How can I get an F on personal experience?
Someone else's experiences might lead them to a different conclusion, doesn't make either of us wrong.
I'd be willing to bet there's nobody here that has ONLY called in coyotes with howling, and never has by using howling and distress in combination, or with distress sounds alone.
If we're just going to pull rabbits out of a hat, statistically... heck, Lance said that the coyote ran towards them after Matt missed it...
So should we assume that firing on coyotes will bring them closer, every time?
I had the same thing happen to me once, too, must be a great tactic?
Tim,
Not studying old posts, but my line of thinking is definitely influenced by his writing.
I'm all for not putting any more thought process into their little heads, than I am able to get out of one.
"Only the yippers know, and they ain't saying."
And I ain't saying, what THEY are saying, until one of them tells me what that is.
JRB,
I didn't say "howling never works".
I said, my own experience has been that howling, on it's own, is not effective.
Howling was used in combination with distress sounds, probably half of the times I have called coyotes, and the only one I ever killed was using distress sounds alone.
How have distress sounds treated me?
Better than howling sounds.
If Coyote Bait didn't use a howler, but continues to do the things that brought him success in the past, I believe he would still have some luck.
Coyote Bait,
If I can't offer you any other advice, take this piece... don't place limitations on yourself, and your success.
Limitations like "where" you call one, or "what with".
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted December 30, 2007 09:00 PM
I know this may get some more eye roll faces, but I have completely abandoned any howling to start a stand, in favor of the chirp.
Here is my thinking for doing this. I have always used a howl to open a stand to hopefully do one of the following: 1) Create a territorial response 2) Create a sense of confidence in responding coyotes that another coyote is not being hunted by being in that area, or 3)Generate a curiosity response. The downside of using a howl was a vocal only response, or running off a non-agressive coyote.
With the chirp, I believe I am hitting all of the upside of howls plus adding a possible sexual response to the mix, and eliminating dangers.
For these reasons, I use howls at end of a stand instead of the beginning.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 31, 2007 06:25 AM
Well Krusty, to be honest I would have to say that you and I are about even on one or two aspects of coyote whacking. You have never howled one in, and I have never bagged one with a mountain bike. LOL Glad to see you hanging in there Krusty. I wish you well.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 31, 2007 10:35 AM
tlbradford:I know this may get some more eye roll faces, but I have completely abandoned any howling to start a stand, in favor of the chirp.
Here is my thinking for doing this. I have always used a howl to open a stand to hopefully do one of the following: 1) Create a territorial response 2) Create a sense of confidence in responding coyotes that another coyote is not being hunted by being in that area, or 3)Generate a curiosity response. The downside of using a howl was a vocal only response, or running off a non-agressive coyote.
With the chirp, I believe I am hitting all of the upside of howls plus adding a possible sexual response to the mix, and eliminating dangers.
For these reasons, I use howls at end of a stand instead of the beginning.
Good Hunting Chad
[ December 31, 2007, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted December 31, 2007 10:38 AM
I thought Lance brought up a couple of good points that should be reiterated, especially for begginer callers.
quote:
Got me there, Krusty. I failed to note that I started that stand with six lone howls (actually two lone howls and four lost puppy howls), then after we spotted the ears on the horizon, tried to work her in with distress.
To this point Lance had only made howls on his stand. You can be reasonably sure that it was howls that elicited a response. Sure, the coyote may have been sleeping on the other side of the hill, or mousing its way to Lance, but even if this is the case, the howls provoked enough interest to draw the coyote into visual range.
quote:
Fact is, if you watch their body language closely, and you see enough of them approaching, they do essentially "talk" to you. In this case, as is the case with many others, Stevie Wonder could have seen and made a good guess as to what this coyote was thinking. Not always, but often. She was thinking, "There is another coyote over there. We're in my house. I think I'll check this out well to avoid getting my ass kicked for running into things like a fool."
For anyone that has seen a coyote respond like this and who might say that you can't deduce their thoughts from what you're seeing, fine. Why do you insist on using that sound in that situation time and time again if you think you don't know what they're response to it is/ will be?
Anytime you are able to watch a coyote from a distance, and study their body language, you get a good read on how that coyote is responding to the sounds, or lack of sounds, that you are making. This information gets tucked away in your memory bank, and after viewing enough coyotes, in enough situations, you can use this information to draw some conclusions as to how a coyote may respond to a sound you are making. This will give you confidence in your calling ability, confidence to try new sounds or set-ups, and a great insight on coyote behavior. They may not always respond the same way, but this keeps it interesting, and gives you a starting point to work from.
Whether you are from the "thought" school or "conditioned response" school, it doesn't really matter, because in this situation the coyote came in and got shot. It is also worth noting that Lance's experience gave him the confidence to throw out multiple sounds to try to draw the coyote closer. To disregard the knowledge he has acquired through the years, even if you doubt his conclusions, because it may not agree with your personal theories isn't very smart.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 31, 2007 12:00 PM
"To this point Lance had only made howls on his stand. You can be reasonably sure that it was howls that elicited a response. "
"It wasn't until I gave a short ki-yi that she really committed to her approach. "
No, I'm reasonably sure what triggered the response, that was useful, was the canine distress.
The only response they got from the howling was to get her to stand, for a long period of time, where she could not be shot... that's not very useful in my book.
The howling only had her stuck on the other side of the hump, so did the rabbit distress... all five minutes worth of it.
"...it doesn't really matter, because in this situation the coyote came in and got shot."
Now YOU are catching on, it doesn't matter WHY it worked, only that something did work.
And we cannot say FOR SURE what that something was, the howling, the jackrabbit, the hawk, something else visual, the different jackrabbit, or the ki-yi?
If howling was was brought her, why switch?
Because she checked up...
If howling was "working", why did she stop?
Because it wasn't working... anymore.
And if a (canine) distress sound was used to get her moving again, and "committed", then why put the credit on howling?
No reason, at all!
It's clear cut, to me, she was killed because of the use of the canine distress.
More howling, and more rabbit distress would likely have produced more standing around?
If we are just going to pull conclusions out of our asses, I could conclude that howling makes coyotes check up, and that shooting at them makes them come closer.
Both of these things happened in Lance's story, but would be bad assumptions from which to make a blanket assessment of all calling situations.
I don't disregard Lance's experience, or knowledge, I am having problems with his WORDS, about those experiences.
I am willing disregard the conclusion, that howling was "the key" to this particular stand, and not the canine distress sound... and I don't think that's stupid.
To give the credit to one of several different "ingredients", howling, without empirical evidence as to which one "sealed the deal", is what's stupid.
Especially in light of the fact that Lance already stated it was the ki-yi that made her "commit".
Howl... coyote stands there.
Rabbit distress... coyote stands there.
Ki-yi... coyote comes in! Boy oh boy, howling works good!
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted December 31, 2007 12:49 PM
Atta boy Krusty!!
Rich, are you finally going to learn how to ride a bike?.....Good for you!!
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted December 31, 2007 01:06 PM
To me you are overanalyzing this Krusty...
The howling were the only sounds that had been made when the coyote appeared. Checking up at 400 yards is still a response. Standing up from a bed is a response. Getting a visual on a coyote is a huge advantage to a caller, so the howling was affective.
Were the howls the sound that allowed the coyote to be shot? That can be argued, and you made a great case for your arguement already.
[ December 31, 2007, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: tlbradford ]
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 31, 2007 01:32 PM
JD,
I didn't say that I didn't know how to ride a bike. Just said I have never bagged a coyote with one. Now get outa here ya skinny thing.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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