This is topic I need tips or ideas please in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 22, 2007, 06:16 AM:
So I have hit this piece of land 3 times now calling for coyotes. There are at least 3 groups that call it home.
First time in there I used Howls and got a huge vocal response by at least 2 groups. I called them from nearly 1 mile to inside 75 or less yards. All the while they are barking yipping and raising hell. Never got a shot because it is very thick and I got busted on my back door.
Second time, same set-up and Howls = NOTHIN
Yesterday, 3 feet of snow and waist deep in some spots. Hunted about 1/2 mile from the first 2 tries and we set-up on a coyote travel route that goes through the thick woods out onto a frozen marsh to where ever they go. Howls got 1 group going about 3/4 - 1 mile away. After a while they moved a bit closer but stayed a ways out with no shows.
What is the deal with these coyotes? How do I get them closer? We have tried distress after they vocalize. We have tried all howls and tried moving on them. we just can't get them to commit.
Any tips or suggestions would be great
thanks.
p.s. I don't think they are pressured other than me and an occasional Snowmobile.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 22, 2007, 07:30 AM:
Try #3 longsprings!!!!
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on December 22, 2007, 08:22 AM:
Leave the howler at home. Some coyotes don't like that shit.
Just slip in and work with only one distress sound. Don't change sounds, and don't try to call them in from the next county, low to moderate volume only.
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 22, 2007, 09:01 AM:
Too much howling will be your ruin, I do start & end my stands with one lonesome howl & it does produce results sometimes but too many aint good.
I`ve heard rumors that Higgins might know something about howling.
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 22, 2007, 09:19 AM:
the very first time I hunted there i started off with just distress, they never responded (vocaly) until I hit the howls.
I can certainly try it. But one more note.
The first time I was in there, in a small clearing neat where I call there was tons of coyote scat. Some with hair, some with crab apples and other stuff. Now that there is snow, not a track near that area. we only found one travel route which we hunted yesterday. It is like they all vanished!! WEIRD stuff!
thanks for the tips guys.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2007, 10:39 AM:
You might need to wade in there after them? Bring a shotgun and wait at least twenty minutes before calling, then use puppy or kitten whines. Full camo, (or a white sheet) and mist might help, too?
Good luck, LB
if that don't work, try somewhere else.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 22, 2007, 11:50 AM:
I agree with Leonard, on the try somewhere else part. Coyotes move and change locations alot more than I think people give them credit for. You will really notice it trapping. You will be working a group of coyotes and know that there are several in the area and for whatever reason one night they pick up and move several miles and don't return. I have had snare areas, big brushy draws that are full of trail snares and they will be dormant for weeks on end, then all of the sudden, one check, a group moves in and "whamo!" you will have several checks in a row with multiple catches. Don't know where they came from or were going to. Same way around the sheep. You will literally clean out an area, and have zero coyotes, zero tracks and know that there isn't a bunch of coyotes within several miles. You can fly it and not even cut a track, then one day, boom, there is a new group that you have no idea where they even came from. Tracks everywhere. Coyotes everywhere. Happens all the time.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on December 22, 2007, 06:45 PM:
Wierd. I didn't know that Cal'. Thanks. Never really thought about it I guess. Always assumed once they established a territory. There they stayed.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on December 23, 2007, 05:55 AM:
Cal, Sheep, the ultimate draw station!!! LOL
Loco, there are places all the coyotes want to call home, the honeyholes, the toughest hold them for the most part. Then somebody kills some of them and they lose their strength and another family group from the nearby projects moves in to the new territory.
There are certain places at certain times of the year that become more or less attractive to the coyotes in the area. For denning, isolation, prey,water or extreme weather!
Lower coyote numbers allow for more movement, higher numbers lead to more defended territories. Coexistance is tolerated in areas where water is shared in extreme heat, and then again when numerous livestock die say due to a blizzard. This will stack coyotes together in extreme cold.
204, I think using a sled to get into the country may not be such a good idea. The sound of a fourwheeler or a sled travels a long ways. Pretty hard for coyotes to respond toward a direction they have heard either one.
I don't think you need to do anything other than just get into the country undetected, walk in from a greater distance, use basic sounds, although it sounds like they have heard about your whole arsenal already,allow yourself an open shooting area, working the wind, and kill em!!!
You know in that thick country they will work the cover to get downwind so put your partner there, or put yourself there and the ecaller to your advantage. Try to put somewhat open or not so thick country in that place you know they want to get to! A shotgun may be the ticket. You need to use the cover to your advantage and not theirs.
It may require for you to wait for a certain wind before hunting. It may take 30 -45 minutes for one to show up. If you get in there without them knowing your there and they hear ya sooner or later one will come in. With all that snow cold etc. they got to be hungry etc.
I think your getting detected long before your trying to call them.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on December 23, 2007, 08:54 AM:
Browning, my advice, albeit somewhat amateurish compared to some, would be to keep howling. If you are getting their attention with the howls then why change that part of the equation?
You want them to come to you but they have a mind of their own and you have to either make them cometo you or move in on them. The latter seems to be the solution, to me.
Some like to sit tight and wait after a group howl but I prefer to move in on them, as others have suggested. I would personally howl intermittently on the way to them, waiting a minute or two and then moving again. Atleast one of those coyotes is likely to get the nerve up to see what is happening.
The first would be a howl that could be construed as young and I would keep it shorter than a typical lone howl. Then I would do the same at the next stop but it would be lower. At some point I would sit and strictly use canine distress for 30 seconds or so and then wait it out. Have I attempted this maneuver before? Yes. Has it worked? Not as smoothly as I had hoped one time and much better results the second. It's worth a try.
Or, you can move full tilt as silently as possible toward them while they are yapping it up.
I am sure that coyotes have to move much, much more in areas with harsh winter months, in the hopes of finding sufficient food. Once they find an area with food shelter and no current owners they will likely set up shop. Dispersal and hunger would presumably account for more movement than any other reason.
[ December 23, 2007, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on December 23, 2007, 09:21 AM:
Back out, wait till they get breeding, then move back in and challenge them .
but if you wont to get at them now
get 2 or 3 guys or a electric call and hit them with lots of crow calls from all of you at the same time even crow decoys will help make them make a mistake. a gathering call with some fighting work well on coyotes that wont commit.
crow calls or raven calls can be a dinner bell to most predators.
[ December 23, 2007, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on December 23, 2007, 03:26 PM:
Thanks Randy. Seems perfectly logical. Just never really thought about it I guess. I love to learn about coyotes. Thanks! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 23, 2007, 07:29 PM:
Thanks guys, I like that idea of call and move in.
I think If I sound like a traveling coyote than that should keep their attention. Also it gets mighty cold sitting still in 3 feet of snow and temps. in the teens. Moving should keep my fingers and toes less numb.
I missed on a great Coyote last winter because I couldn't get my numb fingers onto the trigger fast enough. It was like my first day with my new hands.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on December 23, 2007, 08:33 PM:
quote:
It was like my first day with my new hands.
??
Is there a story there?
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 24, 2007, 05:46 AM:
The short of it is, Hunting in Maine last January, we where night calling. The temp was an easy -20 I was wearing thin gloves with gloved/mittens over them. Set the called about 10 feet in front of me and after about 30 seconds of rabbit distress, a coyote stepped out of the tree line and stuck his nose in the speaker. I was trying to get my fingers out of the finger hole in the gloved/mittens but couldn't.
The coyote looked dead at me and as my partner swung his rifle on him, a branch hit his charging handle and went "clink" the coyote looked at him and just walked off into the brush/darkness.
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on December 26, 2007, 02:55 PM:
Wait about 2 weeks and/or more.
Then read Tim B.'s post above. Do what it says.
If that doesn't work there is nothing that can be bought or taught that will solve the problem.
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on December 27, 2007, 05:57 AM:
to add to my original post because someone brought it to my attention. My partner in which I hunt this property with has called these Coyotes since september. He has never gotten the same responses as with me. He has just gotten Howls and distant barks. He uses mouth calls, I use an E-caller.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 04, 2008, 08:07 AM:
Browning,
Any luck yet? I'm still thinking that they think you're a real coyote with those howls. At this point, the old logging road still seems like it might be the best place to pull them to, at least you should be able to see them. Maybe instead of trying to get tighter or closer you might consider moving away or at least giving them the impression that you are. Set up on the logging road where you can see both ways and talk to them a little and when(and if) they talk back you might want to leave the shooter and move straigt line away for some distance and do some more talking. You might also just turn the caller(if it's in your lap) 180 to give the impression you're moving away. They might want to tag along and cross the trail. If they do, they more than likely will stop on it to look both ways. Might be a good time to kill them.
Might at least be worth a try.
Dennis
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on January 05, 2008, 05:49 AM:
We hunted it once more after my post. We jumped 2 coyotes while scouting on the snow mobile. Not long after that we flipped the snow mobile and caused all kinds of ruckus.
We ended up calling a while after that in an area that we know that the coyotes ran into. I used a different caller and did limited coyote sounds and lotsa distress. Nothing showed and no new tracks.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on January 05, 2008, 06:41 AM:
"flipped the snowmobile and causing all kinds of ruckus" along with calling into the area where the coyotes ran is likely the reason you had no luck.
Don't know for sure about your area, but coyotes here get real nervous when they hear a snowmobile. Even when its a loooong ways away.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on January 05, 2008, 07:26 AM:
Browning; you mentioned the coyotes responding vocally; The only time I really care for the to respond vocally, is when I am trying to locate them. If you know they are there, there is absolutely no need to make the respond vocally to you. You want them to respond with hunger in their eyes. If you want to howl, lessen the amount of howling, interject some distress calls with a challenge howl. I am with Tim and others, leave the distress at home, unless that is your puppy whine caller. good luck.
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on January 06, 2008, 05:49 AM:
our coyotes don't mind the snow mobiles. we made one pass on the trail and then on our second pass we found minutes old scat on the main trail.
The coyotes we jumped I think would have let us pass if we hadn't slowed up and made eye contact with them.
In the past, distress haven't worked.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2008, 09:01 AM:
Coyotes that don't mind snowmobiles are rare, indeed!
I'm still thinking you are pressuring this area a little too much? Many of the things you say and describe run contrary to normal coyote behavior.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on January 06, 2008, 09:47 AM:
ya, we are giving a break for a while. I am way to busy right now to get out anyway.
2nd baby coming any minute now and I am trying to buy a house.
Oh ya, and that thing called work.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2008, 10:07 AM:
Work? Unfamiliar with concept. Explain, please?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 06, 2008, 10:58 AM:
Brown204 is correct; Most coyotes around here also are not affraid of a snowmobile, unless they have been chased by one. We have a few trails that run along creeks and in the river bottoms on the ice and if there are any coyotes around they just hold up in heavey cover nearbye and let the machines pass, about the same as a farm tractor, or pick-up they get used to them being around... T.A.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2008, 11:36 AM:
See? There you go. Can't say a damned thing about coyotes without contradiction. I have been lead to believe that coyotes are scared to death of pickups, for example. I know that crows sit on a pole and watch vehicles drive by but take off when they stop. Then, there is this concept of hiding a vehicle on a stand. Yet, I routinely see coyotes cross a road with a parked truck in plain sight, coming to a call? Go figure. LB
Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on January 06, 2008, 12:22 PM:
Coyote is just another word for contradiction.This is the kind of post i like to read.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on January 06, 2008, 12:38 PM:
Coyotes aren't scared of snowmobiles yet hide in heavy cover when they pass? Interesting... The same coyotes aren't scared of snowmobiles, but won't come into distress or howls because they are too cautious. Again, very interesting.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 06, 2008, 01:41 PM:
Lonny said what I was thinking, but wasn't going to say...
Coyotes in these parts, that truly are not afraid of tractors, actively work the mice and such right behind the tractor. The ones that go hide in the brush, are the ones we think are afraid of tractors...
- DAA
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 06, 2008, 02:53 PM:
LOL guys: What i was trying to say is the coyotes will just lay low and wait for the snowmachine or pick-up to pass bye rather than bolt out of cover and run off into parts unknown. As of the last two weeks most of the coyotes we have been getting have been spotted out in the open fields dureing daylite hours..Yesterday while out hunting the crew decided to meet and talk about what area we would go to hunt next. The guys where all parked on the road about 2 blocks north of a small vacant grove and have been sitting there for 5 minutes or more. I came down the road from the south heading north to where they were parked,i was still a couple hundred yards south of grove when a coyote comes out of the south-west corner of grove just walking. You would think if the coyote was affraid of the guys parked on the road he would of come out of the grove at a dead -run..Hmmm ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 06, 2008, 03:46 PM:
Dave, hard to argue with that kind of logic.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 06, 2008, 04:47 PM:
Quote; "Coyote is just another word for contradiction". Cayotaytalker
Maybe we should carve that into stone somewhere.
Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on January 07, 2008, 03:00 AM:
brn 204, are the vocal reponses to you a buggar bark or a social howl response. If it is a buggar bark you can probably assume you were detected before you ever called or the coyotes have heard too many calls.
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on January 07, 2008, 05:01 AM:
I have to agree with Leonard calling around skidoos doesn't work very well. I won't say that they are afraid of skidoo's but I do feel that they are cautious about being out in the open when they hear a skidoo.
I feel strongly enough about this that I won't waste my time calling in skidooed(?) areas.
Albert
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 07, 2008, 05:30 AM:
Coyotes are very fond of and respond well in the Arctic Cat areas. They may have a different response in the SkiDoo areas.
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on January 07, 2008, 06:01 AM:
Now I see my error, we use Polaris sleds!
to answer some of the points mentioned,
as far as I know, nobody calls that area. Just Deer, Moose and Turkey hunters will be in there.
The howls where weird. Barks, yips howls and all kinds of noise came from the coyotes. But if I would stop for a minute or two, they would start the same routine as to try to get me to go again.
They would just go and go for a long while.
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on January 07, 2008, 04:18 PM:
204, is the second child here yet??? I went through the waiting for one and that was enough for me.
If there was anything resembling a bark you were probably busted. I think Sceery called it a threat-bark-howl or some-such. Bad news, either way, though if you can watch one doing it it is kind of fun to watch them bounce around with stiff front legs. You can play with them and make lots of noise but they know what you are the whole time and will probably remain conveniently out of sight. They know what you are and they are making sure everybody else does too.
Just my amateur take, I may be way off base. Thrown out for conversation's sake.
Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on January 14, 2008, 12:03 PM:
Yes he is here, he came wensday afternoon. We have been busy trying to get our daughter used to him being here and such.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 14, 2008, 01:27 PM:
Congrats, Browning!
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 14, 2008, 06:28 PM:
Congrats Browning!!! I'm really happy for you bro'!!! Now get back to bed, you'll need your sleep.
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