This is topic Saved two from freezing to death,,, in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by coffee437 (Member # 2038) on December 08, 2007, 01:59 PM:
I don't think they would've nade it thru the winter without my help!!!
Five stands this morning and called in two of the mangiest yotes I've seen around here in a while.
First stand of the morning, foggy and misting rain, set up overlooking a high line clearing. Called for about 30 minutes with Arkys Jackmaster, but nothing showed so I switched to the coyote death cry just for the heck of it after about 10 minutes I decided to give up, stood up and looked around and this one is sitting on his butt watching my decoy, I guess it hypnotised him cuz he never saw me.
I thought he looked bad till,,,,
Next 3 stands had no takers (calling thicker stuff hoping for a kitty cat) Last stand I set back up on the same high line probably 1/2 a mile on down where a new pipeline crossed. Only called for about 10 minutes this time when something in the weeds catchs my eye, I couldn't tell what it was till he raised his head up and looked around. I guess he had to stop and scratch cuz he stuck his head back down long enough for me to get turned and get on him. One loud bark from me and he popped back up just in time to catch the cure for his mange ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
He also had a stub for a back leg.
Aren't cell phone pics great ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on December 08, 2007, 03:29 PM:
You sure did do those two a favor!
Man that is some nasty looking stuff!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on December 08, 2007, 06:57 PM:
You should hve skinned those and froze them for Quinton. He's wanting to make a coat. Told me all about it a couple weeks ago when we were hunting together.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on December 09, 2007, 07:42 AM:
Was he wanting to make a Christmas gift for Ingrid Newkirk?
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on December 09, 2007, 08:52 AM:
Seeing pics of mangy ones always reminds me of the episode of Leave it To Beaver where, the Beav, tried to cut his own hair.
Nature is much more savage than a bullet could ever be to those poor bastards. It's actually kind of disheartening to see a coyote that looks as bad as the one on the bottom. Three legs and a sack of skin and it STILL came to the call, amazing.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on December 09, 2007, 12:08 PM:
I've actually seen worse around here, and in the absolute dead of winter. I've found them dead in foot traps where they were caught, then endured freezing rain during the nighttime hours and died of exposure. I've seen them come rolling out of pole barns where they seek shelter in and amongst the stacked haybales. I've even seen them either run out of or fall from the buckets of front-end loaders loading feedwagons with ensilage after they've sought refuge from the cold by burrowing into the fermenting ensilage where it's warm enough to send off steam clouds in the morning cold.
Granted, aside from things like mange, I can't say that I've ever seen anything sadder than mange and how it kills a coyote. Then again, several years ago, we had a bad ice storm that laid 2-3 inches of solid ice on everything across northern Kansas and dropped temps to near zero with wind chills well below -20 to -40 24/7. Damned cold. The local game warden told of checking out several dead coyotes laying in open fields, while another friend told me of observing half a dozen different coyotes pussy footing their way around. At first, he couldn't understand why they were walking so daintily, then he saw the feet of a couple he shot. Bloody stumps. Like a lot of central and southern coyotes, ours don't have the adaptation of fur around and beneath their pads. The ground and ice was so cold and rough that their pads were worn completely raw and bleeding. The story told by the tracks leading up to their cold, dead carcasses was that with each step they took, any scabs that had tried to form were promptly peeled off exposing the raw flesh of their feet. Unable to walk, run or hunt effectively, it appeared that they simply went as far as they could before just plain giving out, lying down and going to sleep one last time. Kent Constable said he saw the same thing that year on bobcats. No animal deserves that.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on December 10, 2007, 05:38 PM:
quote:
Ingrid Newkirk?
IMO, she doesn't deserve a coat that nice! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on December 11, 2007, 05:42 AM:
Oh! now I'm really confused I thought that 2nd picture was ingird newkirk...
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 11, 2007, 07:49 AM:
Question; When a coyote in that condition is encountered, what's the best thing to do with it to stop the mange from spreading?? If you just leave it lay, how long can the little mange beasties stay alive to infect the next critter to come along and smell/rub on the carcass??
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 11, 2007, 09:35 AM:
That's a very commendable, Buddist type outlook.
Worried about the little critters freezing to death without a host, eh?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on December 11, 2007, 09:38 AM:
The mites that cause mange need a live host to live. When the host dies, it is not long after that the mites die. I have read where the mite can live for several days without a host, but this is under ideal conditions, air temp and high humidity. The mites that cause mange in coyotes will not cause mange in other critters that may touch the carcuss. Maintain
Oh yeah, they can infect humans, its called scabies
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 11, 2007, 06:03 PM:
Quote; "Worried about the little critters freezing to death w/o a host, eh?"
More like hoping that the little micro rat bastards die screaming in the cold in the shortest possible time before they infest another coyote or me.
Posted by coffee437 (Member # 2038) on December 12, 2007, 08:40 PM:
I just leave them lay,,,, might not be the right thing to do but,,,, I figure nothing will touch the stinkin thing for a day or two anyway,,,,probably long enough for the mites to die,,, if not them if I didn't shoot them, then they would've infected the next yote that came along anyway
[ December 12, 2007, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: coffee437 ]
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 12, 2007, 09:23 PM:
Nothing wrong with leaving them lay but you should at least take the backstraps.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 12, 2007, 11:14 PM:
So far things are going pretty good here, we have'nt seen any coyotes with mange.Hopefully it stays that way. The mange has been in my area since the mid. 80'sand in the last couple of years we have seen less of it.. T.A.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on December 13, 2007, 01:09 PM:
Many conflicting reports and studies on this disease. Like cross J ,some claim it dies relatively soon after the host dies, but others say it lays dormant waiting for another host. Den holes are thought to be a place where these mites lie dormant waiting for the next occupant. Only a severe long cold spell is thought to kill it without a host. I would tend to believe the dormant theory or I would think the mange epidemic would run it's course quicker and be gone. The warmer winters etc. are allowing the mites to lay dormant etc. without being killed and the spread to continue. Also many different strains of mange etc.
Lance in the 96-97 winter from what I've heard we saw the sore footed coyote here. Groups just watchin on the next hill while their friends were getting worked over by the plane. Fluffy healthy ones! Ever see one with his feet full of gumbo, spreadin his toes, they can hardly go, bitin at their feet to get it out. Look like ole fido runnin with boots on!
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 13, 2007, 03:51 PM:
I also believe that it can lay dormant and survive. I have taken mangy family groups out of the same den areas several years in a row. For whatever reason we aren't seeing much mange here this year. I "fluffed" up twenty some today and didn't see any mangy ones, but did kill a mangy one yesterday. (A load of 4 buck from a particular angle makes them "fluffier")
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 13, 2007, 07:01 PM:
I would have to agree with 3 toes, only certain areas have it here and they seem to have it every year in this area. We have'nt hunted this area yet so i don't know if its still around or hopefully gone for good. We been hunting a 60 mile radius and it looks good so far...T.A,
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on December 14, 2007, 04:13 PM:
Cal I would be interested if you are seeing this too?
We did some timely aerial hunting in some areas under ideal conditions and took a good number of coyotes almost all with visible mange from the air. This was two years ago this March and in those areas the coyotes look good now.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 15, 2007, 08:10 AM:
Actually Randy I'm in a new area (since April) and I'm not really sure what the mange situation was before I got here. In the neighboring county where the county guys get to keep their fur, my buddy there says it is about the same and he gets to skin about half or maybe just slightly better. It has stayed at about that level the last few years. I do believe that in areas with more control you generally see less mange. Mangy coyotes are easier to call and trap where it's cold because they are always hungry because all of their fuel is going to keep them warm. I haven't seen much mange here at all and have killed some pretty nice coyotes. We don't get to keep any fur and I think that the coyote market is kind of in the tank anyway. I can't see any way a guy can put up $20 coyotes and think he is making anything.
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on December 15, 2007, 03:16 PM:
Have you guys seen a large decrease in the total number of coyotes due to the mange in your area?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on December 15, 2007, 06:26 PM:
Randy, a few years back, before I went to solely calling on coyotes, and after I gave up running them with greyhounds, we used to run trail hounds up creeks to push them out. One year, we had a ton of rain and there were times that the coyotes' legs got so gumboed up with mud that they'd be high stepping with all the weight. The bad thing about all that mud is that it created a barrier and our hounds would lose the track because the coyotes would just be laying down mud from their feet and picking up new with each step.
Jeremy, Q has taken a bad toll in NE. SW KS didn't prove as lucrative as we had hoped, but it was still good. According to our locals there, mange was their cause du jour. This area has been hit severely in the past decade, but it is now localized. Only in those areas where we have made the effort to call and kill hairless coyotes have we seemed to see an improvement. Like it or not, the only thing we can do to help make things better, faster, is to mercy hunt and put fur checks on hold for the greater good. Mangy or not, it's still a coyote for the body count.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on December 15, 2007, 07:24 PM:
Cal $20 coyotes? I watched the fur buyer at the VHA hunt last weekend $15 dollars was top dollar!
I went back and looked at our annual report, our average price for coyotes in 05 was $8.75 in 06 it was $11.93 for the ones we turned in!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 15, 2007, 08:04 PM:
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 28, 2010, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on December 16, 2007, 08:08 AM:
TA- $19 average, I assume they were all put up? If you look at the $12 we got you got paid $7 per coyote to put them up. Worth it to some not to others.
Jeremy, yes the overall population is down based on average population, I believe the mange, leads to more parvo, distemper, etc. Just unhealthy coyotes.
Blood samples in 02 indicated high levels in the coyotes harvested on the Turner ranch. It will be interesting to see what comes back from some sampling we did this summer on what looked like healthy coyotes.
Lance, yea you have to kill the mangy coyotes and forget the high dollar fur check LOL!! Days gone by!!
I've been back in some areas I new had litters of mangy coyotes from adults taken in the summer and see little to no tracks in the snow in these areas.
I did go into an area yesterday that we did the aerial control I mentioned before and the two coyotes I took out of it were mange free.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 16, 2007, 10:07 AM:
Randy you missed the prices I got for the S.D. coyotes. 40.00 for female and 50.00 for the male. Good money to be made in S.D... T.A.
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