This is topic Perception of Sound by Coyotes in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on November 23, 2007, 05:24 PM:
For the most part:
Do you believe that a coyote perceives a pup whine or distress as a meal (something edible is hurt and I want it) or is it your belief that they are coming in to save the day and be a good ma or pa?
I know that any answer will have 100's of qualifier's with them so just a basic answer will do. Time of year, sound in relation to den, breeding pair, suburbs, wilderness, savannah, yada yada....
I know this may seem to some like asking Hillary Clinton what her favorite caliber rifle is but...... I would sincerely like to hear some opinions on this.
My own opinion is, easy meal, most of the time. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ November 23, 2007, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 23, 2007, 06:05 PM:
I'd say curiosity and territorial response..
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 23, 2007, 06:05 PM:
My opinion is that a coyote responds because.........it's a coyote and that's what coyotes have to do. I know that seems about as clear as mud, but why does a coyote with a full belly respond off of a carcass to a rabbit call?? Why will a coyote respond on the run to a woodpecker sound from a mile away when there's not enough calories involved to be worth crossing the road for?? How many coyotes have ever incountered a 200 decible rabbit that many of us try to sound like, yet they still respond........ because they are coyotes and they have to. It's just the nature of the beast!!!
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on November 24, 2007, 05:36 AM:
Not sure why they do; but am confident that it's not because the are trying to save junior. I agree that territory/dominance would be the most probable reason.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on November 24, 2007, 06:30 AM:
Ok pup distress, I think it is a responce or reaction based on the family group. Family's well being or family's territory.
I base this on the reactions you see when you know you are working a group of coyotes, in the summer and in the dead of winter. The pup distress will pile coyote on top of coyote late summer if you have YOY, sitters, and parents nearby. These are all one family. Family well being.
In the dead of winter again if you still have a group of coyotes in the same area, may be somewhat broke up but still within an area pup distress triggers a well being or a I told you kids to stay away responce.
A howl before pup distress puts a strange coyote in the area and now well being issues, much different scenario than just pup distress.
I think nomad roaming coyotes in the fall finding there space are not going to show the same reaction to the pup in distress. I think most coyote vocalizations to these coyotes are going to trigger a negative reaction.
Pup distress in defended territories triggers a well being responce all year. The older and longer inhabited areas the coyotes have the better reactions I see when using pup distress.
But again I am trying to think like a coyote with a human brain, the one flaw in this equation.
Good topic Smithers!!
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on November 24, 2007, 03:25 PM:
Even though I lumped them together in the original post, I think personally, that whines (whimpers) and distress are two separate but equal vocalizations. Nearly the same message not quite the urgency with whines/whimpers. When I talk of pup whines I am trying to portray a coyote or dog that is nervous/scared or antsy. With distress I am trying to convey hurt/scared or being eaten alive or nipped at. A single aiiiiight!
I have just recently started to use whimpers in a nervous/scared context to start off a stand because it's low and mournful and could be interpreted several ways by a coyote. I haven't called one in with just this sound alone yet BUT I WILL!
Let me ask the question another way. What message are YOU trying to convey or establish as the maker of the sound? Are you trying to convey a pup in need, a pup being mauled by another, a pet dog being savaged? A coyote pup having his ass handed to him by a rabbit?
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on November 24, 2007, 03:41 PM:
I think they respond because they have to.
but as always I could be wrong( ya think) ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on November 24, 2007, 04:22 PM:
Maybe I'm odd ( Probably am ) but I don't like to mix food sounds with coyote distress sounds. About the only time I mix them is when I had a pair or more run in, and took a shot. Then I might yelp to stop a runner for a second shot.
I understand that coyotes don't think like people, but if you were running for the dinner bell, then suddenly heard someone getting his ass handed to him, wouldn't it cause you to slow down to better assess the situation?
But I sure like Randy's suggestion of a lone howl, followed a few minutes later by a pup in distress. You can bet I will be trying that soon!
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on November 24, 2007, 05:05 PM:
I don't know why, but I know they do.
I have had too many show up to distressed coyote sounds - within 20 - 30 secounds.
I believe these coyotes were hearing my 10-12 minutes of hurt rabbit or bird sounds and for some reason the coyote sounds trggered a positive response.
Would these coyotes have showed without the coyote sounds....maybe...maybe not...
I use them alot.
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on November 24, 2007, 08:07 PM:
Could it be that the responding coyote perceives that the original predator who caught the rabbit is now having to defend it’s dinner? The first predator is now occupied with a coyote, eagle, bobcat or what ever and might not notice the hard charger as he stole the prey and run off?
[ November 24, 2007, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Bryan J ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on November 24, 2007, 08:30 PM:
According to my ol' ecology profs, most of what we would label as intuitive and instinctive behaviors exist to compel an animal to do what is necessary to ensure the continuation of the genetic bloodline, and as such, the species. If that means running headlong into a butt whoopin', so be it. And this is, IMO, the drive behind a coyote's natural curiosity toward pup distress sounds.
We've all seemingly agreed in the past that a coyote responds to prey distress because he essentially is reacting to the flipping of a primitive switch somewhere in his head that tells him to get it and eat it, even though his belly is full. How often have we heard tales like cited above, or about guys witnessing coyotes gorging themselves on a carcass, then puking it all up, only to go back and gorge themselves all over again.
As much as we would like to look upon coyotes as thinking, rationalizing beings, the more you look at their behavior, and the closer you look at it, the more you realize how automated they are in their responses to certain stimuli, most of which are survival oriented.
To answer the question, I don't think they regard the sound as being anything other than what it is, and they respond to it because millions of years of evolutionary influence compel them to do so. This, along with other behavioral traits, has served the species well I think.
As far as mixing ki-yi's with food distress, I note that a lot of the best callers I've sat a stand with do so on occasion. Personally, I use it often as a change up. Just last week, in SW KS, we had one hang up at 600 yards. Nothing else seemed to get his attention. I ki-yi'd a bit, and as soon as the sound hit him, he was up and closing. His response was predictable - circling downwind - and IMO, and has been my experience, it's always best to anticipate this on the part of the coyote and reposition yourself to deal with him when he does.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on November 25, 2007, 08:04 AM:
I'm surprised that no one's mentioned yet that the disjunctive perturbation of the facture verges on codifying a participation in the critical dialogue of the 90s.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2007, 09:32 AM:
You have been hanging around Higgins a little too much, Tim. Even starting to talk like him?
Good hunting. LB
For me, I'm having a little difficulty understanding the question? Is it too basic, too subtle, too profound. Somebody needs to draw me a picture.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on November 25, 2007, 09:53 AM:
I think all the answers are good. I will have to get Rich to tell me what Tim said in is second post.
The hard part is for us, equiped with the human brain is to fiqure out how to trip those built in responces.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on November 25, 2007, 10:12 AM:
I was just going to add something about the truncation or segmentation of a pack and the superfluous nature of a lone coyote's eating habits.
You can bet I will be trying that soon!
That's a riot...
Leonard, I am asking what you think that a pup distress or whine means to a coyote and why they would respond. If you use the sound on a regular basis what context do you use it in?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2007, 10:13 AM:
Sorry, Tim. I meant John-Henry.
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on November 25, 2007, 11:00 AM:
"I'm surprised that no one's mentioned yet that the disjunctive perturbation of the facture verges on codifying a participation in the critical dialogue of the 90s."
Well Tim, I was going to mention it, but being the perfectionist I am, I was trying to nail it down to the early or late 90's.
Maintain, Geordie
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2007, 11:22 AM:
no wonder you have been droppen from the Christmas list! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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