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Author
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Topic: Mr. Leonard - need advice
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted November 06, 2007 11:49 AM
Leonard, I know you are one to use the diaphram calls as a source of producing dying rabbit blues...
My question, do you lean towards turkey style or elk style diaphrams as the source of your calling magic?
The hunting groups here in Phx, don't seem to like the idea of using electronic callers, so looking to expand my manual calling arsenal.
If you would share you expertise, it would be greatly appreciated....
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2007 12:27 PM
Norm, it's just like anything else. You have favorite hand calls, shape and sound, the way they feel on your lips and in your hand. And, with a diaphram, you might be concerned about how it tickles the roof of your mouth?
I don't see much difference in turkey or those made especially for predators. Elk? I don't use them, can't say? I like a higher pitched call. Gravelly hand calls are great, but do not impress me, in a diaphram. Get a high pitch one, and you can vary it quite a bit if you blow softly, especially if you snug it up against the roof of your mouth.
But the question is usually the number of reeds and if they have cuts in them. I usually prefer two, but some three layer diaphrams sound good to me, as well. I'm not crazy about the vee split calls.
I do not blow a diaphram from "my diaphram", if you know what I mean? It requires the upper part of your lungs to get the right pressure. Inhale and control the amount of air that you expel, kinda sorta like whistling. And, it's hard to explain, I am discovering? But, if you want volume, you need to blow very hard.
This is something you have to do yourself, I guess? But, if you want an amazing range of sound, and a unique sound; there is no better choice than a diaphram call.
If you are one of the unfortunate ones that can't control the gag reflex, a diaphram is not for you. I would suggest that you may be positioning it incorrectly. It should be more toward your front teeth with your tongue pressed against the back of your bottom teeth.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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bowjunkie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 887
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posted November 06, 2007 12:48 PM
good post Leonard...
"If you are one of the unfortunate ones that can't control the gag reflex, a diaphram is not for you. I would suggest that you may be positioning it incorrectly. It should be more toward your front teeth with your tongue pressed against the back of your bottom teeth."
something to think about if you've never used a diaphram call think about tying a piece of nonwaxed dental floss through the flap on the reed so if you suck it down yer throat you can save your life by yankin it back out.. trust me it works ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 35 | From: the high mountians | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2007 01:05 PM
Shit, you mean you understood it? I probably wouldn't if I didn't already know what I was trying to say? LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted November 06, 2007 02:11 PM
Great post Leonard!
FWIW since I heard about this capability a couple of years ago, I've been trying or practicing, I should say. I found the nicest sounds have come from the double reed diaphrams with NO splits or cuts. For some reason I can control what sound I produce better than the others. Have you found the same thing Leonard or do you have better control period, no matter which type?
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2007 02:24 PM
Yes, I agree, Shirley. It just seems to be less effort, yet more range with the plain double reeds. But, I admit, it's a personal preference. They all work.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted November 06, 2007 03:04 PM
Do you guys who use diaphram calls have trouble keeping them "in stock"? I mean, once I finally get used to one, I guess I have not taken good enough care of it or something? and I have to throw it away and start over. Do you go to much trouble to wash it so that it doesn't get ruined as quick? Or do you just replace them often?
Joel
Posts: 145 | From: texas | Registered: Aug 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 06, 2007 03:35 PM
Joel,
I've only used diaphragms a time or two (gag issues) and have been told by the turkey hunters to dust the latex reed(s) with baby powder between uses. One of those guys has found that to help in preserving his Power Howler reeds, too.
I was told by a caller to fit the diaphragm between your upper teeth, trim the back off a little at a time until you eliminate the gag problem, and when I blow across it, I get the best response by making a "Shhhhh" sound, rather than forming my mouth to a "hiss". Power Howlers were a God send for me because the latex band reeds are, to me, the same thing, except that they come on a dandy "holder".
Any other advice on making them work?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted November 06, 2007 04:00 PM
Joel,
Someone had given me a tip a few years back which has seemed to work for me. I dip my diaphram in Listerine real good after I'm done using it, making sure to get it between the reeds, then put it in a plastic container with lid and put it in the refrigerator. I still have to replace them from time to time, but I don't think nearly as often.
Lance, I used to trim the tape but then just started taking the diaphram in both of my hands and giving it a slight bend to form an arch in the center. That helped me to get a more comfortable feeling and fit.
[ November 06, 2007, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Crow Woman ]
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2007 04:10 PM
I don't know? I don't take any special care of them, and they seem to last a very long time? One thing I always do is put them back in the container, or they stay in my mouth. Just slipping them into a pocket is a sure way to bitch about how they don't hold up very well. Washing them out with any thing from water, or something better, is a good idea. Powder? I don't think so, but if it works for you? <shrug>
I have never had to trim them, and I have heard that some people bend them? I'd be careful about that. If anything, trimming the corners might make them more comfortable for some people. (read "babies") <snicker>
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted November 06, 2007 04:29 PM
Wonderful... i will head to the local sportsmans on the way home a get a couple to try.....
Great post and description Leonard. I knew you were the expert on this topic....
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted November 06, 2007 06:21 PM
For me, not that anyone asked, the elk diaphragm is the call of choice when it comes to diaphragm's. The range in sound is not quite that of the stacked reeds but do just fine for me.
The easiest way to avoid the gag reflex is to use the dipharagm outside the mouth, ultimately defeating the purpose of no hand movement. They can be blown (the Primos Elk atleast) when holding them between the thumbs and pointer fingers, somewhat like using an E.L.K.
Are the diaphragm calls any better, overall, than the rubber band calls offered by Burnham Brothers, Johnny Stewart and others? In my opinion, no. The rubber band calls are easier to use, basically plug and play, they can produce nearly (I stress nearly) all of the same sounds as a diaphragm, they are about the same cost and will last a lifetime.
Of course, this is purely subjective and user defined. The diaphragm's are fun to use and you can get amazing sounds from them if you have the time and patience to do so.
If you plan on howling or are using the diaphragm to actually call turkeys then......
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2007 06:40 PM
Thanks for contributing, smithers. You are making me look especially well informed on the subject at hand. (just kidding) haha
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted November 06, 2007 11:07 PM
I like the high pitch in a diaphragm call too. It seems like they take less air. I also like those new dome calls. For $3 they're worth a try to see if you like them. I keep them fresh just like Crow Woman. You can also stick a little toothpick in between the reeds to help keep them from sticking together.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted November 07, 2007 06:39 PM
I started doing most of my vocals on a diaphram. I believe it is one of the most realistic ways to howl. I wear diaphrams out fast but i howl daily for practice. I recently got a jig and make my own.
steve
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted November 07, 2007 08:21 PM
Steve; Who do you work for??? and you make your own diaphrams???? Am I missing some puzzle pieces???
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 07, 2007 09:19 PM
Norm, that very thought had occured to me, as well. Don't he get 'em free?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 07, 2007 09:20 PM
or, have I mixed him up with the Pilgrim, again?
edit: Steve? I thought he was "unknown"?
[ November 07, 2007, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted November 08, 2007 04:45 PM
Well lets just say Im working on some stuff due to H.S. not having what i want which is the best sounding diaphram in my opinion for howling anyway. But i bet they will have it before long, hopefully. Im no guru but i know what i want in a reed as far as thickness and placement in the frame to make the best sounds. It maters how the reed is placed in the frame and the thickness. As we all know H.S. diaphram that i can blow well just dont have the reed thickness desired so i make my own now. I just started so im still trying diffrent stuff with this but i can promise that i can make a user friendly howling diaphram to anyones liking and it sounds so real youll think its a coyote. I have a friend that jumped while we was on a stand because it sounded so real and close. But i guess to simply answer norms question, Im working on a call package that hopefully H.S. will add to there line and I can stop making my own,lol. Maybe I could add a sound clip later for you.
steve
edit: Heres the sound clip but by video,its all i had. http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k143/stevecrineroutdoors/videos/?action=view¤t=howlclip.flv
[ November 08, 2007, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: stevecriner ]
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted November 08, 2007 09:07 PM
well, you can feel free to share your prototypes with us before they go to production... we will give you honest feedback :}
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Beastmaster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 210
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posted November 12, 2007 10:50 AM
I have used diaphragms lot on turkey and a middling amount on critters. I have been told a person must swallow one of every color before becoming proficient. I consider that to be BS. I have swallowed most colors and do not consider myself to be as good as a hare lipped gobbler. Here is my two cents for what it is worth. Choose single and maybe double reeds, preferably un-notched. Early models were made using condom rubber (hopefully unsused or used sparingly) stretched over lead or aluminum frames and then secured with duct tape. Experience tells me all such will degrade because of photo synthetic exposure. Dedgradation is hastened because of slobber rot. That degradation can be slowed if you wash them after each hunt and use tooth picks between multiple reeds to allow drying. I seldom use one more than a single season. I do not agree that diaphragms are not better than rubber bands. A talented palate can produce about every sound excepting "America the Beautiful". Stay Beastly.
Posts: 32 | From: Lake Havasu City, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted November 14, 2007 05:01 PM
quote:
I seldom use one more than a single season. I do not agree that diaphragms are not better than rubber bands. A talented palate can produce about every sound excepting "America the Beautiful". Stay Beastly.
Mr. Beastmaster, I would be crossing some kind of line if I were to argue too adamantly for the band calls so I will tip toe the line accordingly. Some of the key points in your argument for the diaphragm were actually arguments,instead, for the band calls. One is not stuck with using only the size bands provided by the manufacturer. There are many styles, sizes and formulations of bands out there. I have experimented with many different sizes and have come up with one that is in fact one of the best sounding calls I have. I'll go hide now...... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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