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Author
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Topic: Deadly?
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted August 13, 2007 12:53 PM
I was at the range a while back, and I put up a Champion "X-ray" target of a coyote, at 100 yards, and proceeded to killing it.
I was able to put ten shots in the X-ray boiler room, with 123gr Hornaday sp's from my 7.62x54R.
So just for kicks, I used my 22lr to finish the session, and the coyote (Mossberg Model 340/Bushnell 4x12AO).
Using a brand of ammo that isn't my rifle's favorite, and patterns slightly right of center, I shot this group;
I've marked a shot with an arrow, because I have a question about it.
Do you think that (22lr) shot would be deadly?
What about the same shot, at 200 yards, with the Hornet and a 40gr V-max?
The one shot hanging low was the first shot, the one in question the second, and the final three a nice group "walked in" to place.
Leonard* I know the neck/spine shot is a high risk, if I were to do it again, I'd use another brand of shells (CCI Stingers), and put them all in the base of the ear (area).
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 13, 2007 01:08 PM
Yeah, that's a low percentage shot. (neck)
Now, any 22rimfire headshot regardless of distance, unless you are right at the muzzle, is probably not going to kill a coyote without a lot of screaming and fussing. In other words, in my opinion, you shouldn't do it. As they say, a coyote can carry off more (subsonic) lead than a junk wagon.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 13, 2007 01:25 PM
Personally I don't think it would go down with the .22 LR. Atleast not for a while. There's just not enough expansion on the bullet and the fpe at 100 yards wouldn't break a hundred. Although it is possible. The probability is low and the variability is high.
The .22 Hornet with a polymer tip will fragment greater thus doing more damage and the probability of a clean kill goes up. It will also carry a couple hundred fpe at 200 yards which is more than the .22 LR could dream of at PBR. Not ideal but..... That is my salty opinion.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Edited to add: I use a .22 WMRF when I hunt at night. I will take a frontal or broadside shot over a head shot any day. In fact, I wouldn't and never have taken head shot. The lung area on the coyote is a much larger target than the brain or spine. Ask any trapper how long it can take a coyote, coon or fox to expire in a trap after being PBR'ed with a .22LR. Did you shoot the Beava' with a .22?
[ August 13, 2007, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted August 13, 2007 04:52 PM
A .22LR will kill a coyote at 100 yards... sometimes. Not sure the "arrowed" shot placement would kill him unless a good infection set in.
.22LR Aguila Calibre's (powderless) will drop a coyote like a bag of bricks most of the time. Especially when you hold them still with a choke pole.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 13, 2007 05:31 PM
Anatomically speaking, neither of the two shots that miss the vertebrae completely will prove immediately lethal, and probably not in the near sense, time wise, since all you'd be hitting is muscle tissue. Even the hits you have on vertebrae will be only occasionally lethal since basilar functions such as breathing are controlled in the brain stem and would require a direct hit to the atlas (first cervical vertebrae) or the axis (2nd), and then only if there is sufficient energy to totally destroy the vertebral components. From C-3 down, you'd only paralyze him. (I did that two years ago on one running straight away. I hit him slightly low at the base of the skull and when I got to him, he could just lay there and look at me, couldn't raise his head or move anything.) Both the carotids and the jugulars run slightly anterior to the spinal vertebrae in most vertebrates.
Now, with sufficient energy being transferred to the soft tissue upon impact, a higher powered round, say, from a .223 and up, would probably create enough of a shock wave to disrupt the soft tissue of the vascular tissue for several inches around the actual wound track.
Aside from a head shot or a shot either totally destroying the heart or the great vessels coming from its top, basing this opinion upon what I've read in studies on different hits on deer and the like, what I was taught in trauma kinematics management, and what first hand experience seeing gunshot wounds tells me, the second best shot is any that disrupts the vacuum of the pleural membrane of the thorax, keeping the lungs inflated, and which destroys the maximum amount of lung tissue. Even a marginal shot to the heart will allow an animal to go quite a ways, but once you break that vacuum and the lungs collapse, he'll quickly drown in his own body fluids and go down. It's been my experience that a broadside shot, into the nearside shoulder blade or just behind it, will take the entire thorax out either directly by the bullet, or augmented greatly by scapular fragments exploding and forming their own wound channels, thus destroying much of the lung tissue and causing the coyote to exsanguinate all its blood into the chest cavity, aka, out like a light switch.... not that I've thought of it much at all.
Will that coyote die after being shot by a .22LR where your arrow indicates? Eventually, either (as Jason points out) from sepsis or from old age. But, nonetheless, it will die.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 13, 2007 05:38 PM
Thanks Cdoogie Howser!
What was that part about cerebral endometriosis? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 13, 2007 05:44 PM
All well and good, gentlemen. But, I don't like theoretical talk about 22 rimfires and coyotes, in a positive light. It just comes to no good. Usually. And, we aren't talking about at the end of a choke stick, but in a hunting situation. Depending on hitting a specific numbered vertibae at callable range is irresponsible. Would it be fatal, who knows? Do you stand a chance of the coyote running off and dieing somewhere that you can't find him? Yes, you do. I don't like it, but I appreciate the input.
Good hunting. LB
[ August 13, 2007, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 13, 2007 05:49 PM
My guess is that shot will knock the coyote for a loop. And about the time you think the Ol'.22 works just fine on coyotes the critter will regain its footing and the rodeo will begin.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 13, 2007 07:13 PM
Glad you said it Leonard. I'd use a .22LR if I was disabled and being attacked. But, in a hunting situation, a coyote deserves better than that.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
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posted August 13, 2007 08:12 PM
Agreed. 22LR pretty much a cruel choice.
No reason for a coyote to suffer in my opinion.
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The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted August 13, 2007 08:46 PM
I'm guilty, I shot my very first brush wolf with a 22 l.r. back in the early 80's. It dropped from first shot then got up and walked into the woods never to be seen again. I learned my lesson that day and have never done it since.. Its down right bad......
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5621 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted August 13, 2007 09:02 PM
Just so's everyone knows, the only coyote I ever intend on shooting with my 22lr, is a paper one.
This particular paper coyote already had ten 30 cal. holes in the "vacuum of the pleural membrane"... one directly through the heart... I was "finishing it off" in the sense that I had an area without any holes, and ten minutes until a target change.
Perhaps there is positive, in this discussion, if we can convince anyone (else) of the futility of shooting a real live coyote with a 22lr.
Remember... often times my usefulness is as an example of what not to do.
I didn't figure any of the shots was immediately fatal, or even know if the 22lr could penetrate deep enough to strike bone rendering the coyote incapable of running off.
I was just thinking out loud. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted August 14, 2007 10:56 AM
"Truck Gun" -(Tr'uk G'un) - A firearm that may be suitable for some applications, most of the time. A firearm of reasonable accuracy but one prone to jarring, jolting and sticky candy bar wrappers.
Just about every farmer, cattleman, hunter and otherwise redneck in Southern Indiana owns a "truck gun". A high percentage of those "truck guns" are chambered in .22LR. For that reason- more coyotes probably die to the rimfires each year than to centerfires in my region.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 14, 2007 11:21 AM
The best truck or tractor guns are the Rossi, NEF/ H&R/ Marlin single shots. Cheap, moderately accurate and in every varmint/predator chambering you could wish for and more.
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