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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 08, 2007, 01:35 PM:
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 08, 2007, 03:47 PM:
Ok, Ill bite. What are we supposed to be lookin at Lance?
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on August 08, 2007, 04:31 PM:
Larry Hottmans farm, of course. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 08, 2007, 05:10 PM:
Must be Lance's vote for next years Huntmasters get together? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 08, 2007, 05:11 PM:
What is the meaning of this member #7!? Some hairlipped prank?
[ August 08, 2007, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 08, 2007, 05:17 PM:
Oh yeah, thats old man Hottmans boy. I plumb forgot.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 08, 2007, 06:49 PM:
Test
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 08, 2007, 06:50 PM:
I've tried to explain that pic five times and the board keeps rejecting my post sying that there are parenthesis in HTML. I don't even have HTML in my reply.
Therefore, forget the pic. It's a cool story and I could really use some input from you guys. But,...
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 08, 2007, 07:27 PM:
Oh yeah, I see it now. That mangy 'ol coyote that is in the green field just south east of the house. So how many times has it given ya the slip! Heck, I figure that he's out in the open during day light, or at least he was when this image was captured, so a pro like yourself should be able to handle him, it's an alpha male I think although at that range it can be difficult to tell sometimes, even for me. If ya can't handle him, surely one of the pampass know it alls around here should be able to help! Just need to ask!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 08, 2007, 07:48 PM:
Ha! Ha! Smart ass!
Shortened last attempt, then I give up. Feel free to come up here and get them deadjucated, if you can. Bear in mind, though, that this is a story of three coyotes. Don't know which one is in charge, but I suspect it's the big brown one. Haven't been close enough to know if he's male, let alone if he's the alpha. But, he has run four mares through two different barbed wire fences, ran thirty head of black angus cattle to near exhaustion in sweltering heat, and killed a dozen farm cats. That last one isn't really a problem to me, but that's why we got the call.
Saw all three together twice. First night out there - no permissions, no guns. Then, again this morning at 6:10 a.m. at about 250 yards. When I hit the go button on the e-caller to bring them onto the ground where I had permission and through a screen of head-high grass, they took off like I'd lit their asses on fire. Talked smack with one of them twice this weekend but couldn't see them in the CRP - the only place we can get permission to hunt and which is bordered in yellow on that map, and on Sunday evening, I still hunted to within twenty feet of him trying to get into position to call where they lay up from the east, but he bolted on me in the tallgrass and was out of sight in two steps.
Turns out the guy that lives east of Larry's bought himself an e-caller. Has killed eight young ones. Bully for him. Things have gotten a bit tougher, so he locates them while on the job as a Blackhawk gunship pilot from Fort Riley (Army). They fly night maneuvers four nights a week and he routes his flight plans over his farm so he can use the night vision capabilities to spot coyotes, then when he gets home just after 3 a.m., he jumps on his ATV and chases them, shooting at them with rifles. Been doing that 4-5 times a week since spring and it pretty much explains why these coyotes are so damned jumpy.
Now, gubmint hunter, if you can suggest a way to counter the effects of these three coyotes being harassed several nights a week by the 6th Air Calvary, 1st Infantry Division's combat-hardened helo pilots in an area where the only place you can get permission to call consists of six-foot tall big bluestem, I'm all ears. I've been on top of them four times now and not gotten a decent shot before they bugged out. I didn't post text to go with the pic earlier because I had traps boiling and went out and made six sets tonight since Rambo isn't using traps on them. Yet. If I get ol' Brownie, I'll post hero shots for ya. Ya hear?
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 09, 2007, 04:26 AM:
Sheez, and I thought maybe you had a really tough calling situation! I don't see where the problem is. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Traps do sound like a sample way out of it though! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 09, 2007, 05:20 AM:
Save some of those cats and send them to me!
These danged Kangaroo rats and
Ground squirrels are thick this year, but the only place I ever see them out is next to a building where I can't shoot them.
I can't use snap traps or poison, due to all of my free range chickens, and they won't go into a box trap.
I need cats!
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 09, 2007, 06:32 AM:
Sounds like he needs to go to the next guy on the list!!!!!
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 09, 2007, 08:37 AM:
Get a big ole dead pile out in the field set up and wait. Fill it with fox, goat, sheep and chinchilla piss.
Tell Jan Michael Vincent/ Airwolf to quit scaring the hell out of them. He is only exacerbating the problem.
I am no Guvmint trapper or finely honed hunter so my advice is grain of salt, ya know. It sounds to me like this is going to take some planning on your part.
The traps are a good idea if no one has ever trapped out there. Before you go slapping traps up set up some small primer stations with different lures baits etc. to see what is going to get their attention quickly. After checking the stations to see if there is any activity I would then go in with the traps. A week or so of observation may yield good info for calling strategies and trap site selection. Double dirt holes, mounds, something out of the ordinary and not just Plain Jane dirt holes.
With all the Ag going on out there it looks like prime woodchuck territory. I would try the baby groundhog distress on the Bandit. I love that one!
Who the hell knows. 3Toes and Randy R should be all over this! Randy deferred so where's WileyE?
[ August 09, 2007, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 09, 2007, 09:08 AM:
quote:
the only place I ever see them out is next to a building where I can't shoot them
Tim, get yourself a Sherridan pump pellet gun in .22 cal. It's great fun and deadly on those ground squirrels. Try headshots only for a challenge.
Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on August 09, 2007, 09:21 AM:
Heck, He already has the helicoptor in the area, why doesn't he just aerial gun him with a thermal guided gatling. Or whatever those things have for a gun.
I like the bait pile, or trap idea myself. If you start to pattern them, you could set up at an ambush point and keep quiet.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 09, 2007, 04:25 PM:
All the negative factors are just part of the game if you want to hang your shingle out. Nothing out of the ordinary. I have a rancher that owns his own chopper and hunts out of it. And guess what, I still get trouble calls from him and have to go clean up coyotes there. There are night hunters, callers, ATV and snowmobile hunters, and recreational trappers everywhere and I still have plenty of coyotes to kill. They have seen it all, and heard it all but are still killable one way or another. Some take longer than others but thats the job. Good Luck!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 09, 2007, 04:37 PM:
Thanks, Cal. Nice to see a professional offer up sincere, constructive commentary. And for the record, I don't hang a shingle or offer "professional" services. As competitive as things are around here for hunting ground, you have to be willing to offer something that the other guys can't or won't. I prefer to think of it as a courtesy to my landowners. I was just hoping that one of you guys that do this 24-7-365 could offer up something that I might be overlooking. In this instance, we're still early in things. And I don't expect to swoop in and manhandle every case in the first hour. LOL I just don't have much free time to mess with it right now, so it's hit and miss at best. If you note on that map, the four white squares are within a 100-yard square area, out of several square miles of good coyote-friendly cover. The first step, to me, is determining where they're hanging out and calling home, and we guessed that right from the get-go. Google Earth and aerial photos are wonderful tools in this sport.
smithers - we have a good snipe point determined that is, currently, guarded by traps. If we don't cuff them by the weekend, and I'm not betting on it, we'll be sitting against small cedars on the side of that north facing slope come Sunday morninng at half past too damned early as we lie in wait.
I told Matt last night, while setting traps, that one way or another, we would resolve this issue. Either we would get the offending coyotes, or Larry's wife would run out of cats. Either way, problem solved.
Thanks again, Cal.
[ August 09, 2007, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 09, 2007, 08:25 PM:
By offering your help to kill the problem coyotes, I meant that as hanging out your shingle, Lance. No more or less. I'm not in a position to offer advice for territory and terrain I don't know. Without being there and having an idea of whats going on, how could I have an answer of any kind? I'm not going to look at a chickenshit little map and tell you what I think. Too many variables, I don't know if there are trails, I don't even know if you can use snares in Kansas, and I have no idea of your personal capabilities. I don't know if you could trap a skunk in a boxcar with one door already closed. And you may be the best trapper in Kansas, I wouldn't know. Sounds to me like your planning on staying with it till you figure it out. Thats all any of us do. Very few people have the time or will to stay with a problem till it's solved. If you do, then bully for you, if you don't then you are no different than the guy you were jabbing for killing the others. Sounds like he's still trying to kill them also. Maybe the friggin midnight chopper and 4 wheeler runs are what put the horses through the fence? Once again without being there I wouldn't know. What I do know is that I have no need for your snide sarcastic remarks and see no reason to try to help you even if I could.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 09, 2007, 08:33 PM:
I know you have probably gone through every trap set scenario and stand idea that most regular Joe Six Packs can offer up. They are probably the same ideas that any ADC'er could offer up. 
It sounds like you may not be too far off from getting them.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 10, 2007, 04:30 AM:
Damn, Cal. Apparantly you and I are on different frequencies here because nothing in my reply to you was meant to be either snide or sarcastic. If I'd meant it that way, it would certainly have been patently obvious. I did, in fact, think your reply was objective, courteous, and helpful, as was most of the second one, less the veiled criticisms. Without flying you or another ADC man down here and showing you first hand what's to be dealt with, the only viable option I had was to post that chickenshit little map and ask - up front - for a little professional advice in case there is something I might want to try to help this guy out. I defer to your experience and professional knowledge and skill, and this is your response? And yes, as time allows, I'll probably stay with this until it's resolved. You never learn anything from the easy ones.
I only sought to get some information, give the members of the board a chance to occupy their down time with something while most of us endure this interminable heat, and fix this producer's problem at the same time. I have a professional ADC man that will gladly give me the advice I need, and who was raised here and is very familiar with the circumstances and terrain. He's not a county-level man, but rather, federal, and getting hold of him has been problematic since his skill level and training has had him busy trapping and calling arctic foxes in the Aleutians and trapping wolves in Idaho for most of three months, away from a phone. He and his partner, in the county where they're assigned, average 1400 coyotes and two dozen moutain lions a year, and in our convesations, he just doesn't understand the animosity that some ADC guys suffer toward the rest of the calling community. I'll call him so I don't have to bother you fellas anymore. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 10, 2007, 05:41 AM:
CDoug, if they are munching on cats then... why did you use the rabbit distress? What implored you to use such a sound!? Cold shoulder........
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 10, 2007, 10:53 AM:
I mainly went to offer pup distress and juvie howls. Rarely use bunnies at this time of the year except for something different. I did try kitten distress and cat distress both with no response. The reaction I got Wed morning takes calling off the table. Don't see much use in continuing a strategy that sends them running the other way. We'll focus on ambush and traps for now and go from there. As far as the helos spooking the horses, that was a witnessed incident, thus the means by which we got a description of our primary offender as being "a large, dark brown coyote". Compared to the other two he's running with, that's an accurate description. His luck will run out sooner or later.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 10, 2007, 02:44 PM:
Federal, Wow!! I can't hardly believe you know a Fed. I have heard that those guys are unreal.
If I mistook your reply then I apologize, but it just seemed to me that you were upset that no one came up with the magic solution for you. Now, your jab is that you know a fed, not a county guy, but rather a FED!
Lord, I apologize, and bless the starving pygmies in New Guiney, but this is too funny!!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 10, 2007, 04:00 PM:
Well, you did misread my reply, your apology is accepted, I wasn't looking for a magic solution, and I'm sure the pygmies in New Guinea appreciate your concern.
As far as my buddy goes, comparing him to local-level guys is like comparing the U.S. Marshal's Service personnel, FBI Agents, and Postal Inspection Service Inspectors that I've had the privilege to work with to local PD officers. No comparison. Both in level of skill, education, and their professional decorum.
I asked a serious question, sincerely requesting input from knowledgeable hunters. An opportunity to work over a problem during the down season for most of us. I didn't make this post to start the next great squabble with you or anyone else. But, you did. If that's what you want, get over it. I'm not biting. This was an exercise for enjoyment. I seriously doubt that you'd offer anything I'm not already aware of anyway or will eventually come upon on my own. Part of the learning curve and something I'm academically capable of dealing with either with, or without, your help. And I'm an eager student. As was pointed out to me in an e-mail today referencing this thread and its de-evolution, the only thing you have on most of us is time on the job and somebody paying you to do it. Geesh!
Now... does anyone want to go back to trying to whack these coyotes? Or not?
Oh, forgive me Lord, and bless those damned pygmies.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 10, 2007, 04:46 PM:
I just got back and have only scanned this thread, but don't see the big offense, on either side? The animosity seems to be there, but I will offer these words, for what it's worth. I like both of you guys and don't like to see a quarrel between you. You can fight it out, or let it alone, I won't interfere or choose sides.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 10, 2007, 06:12 PM:
I wasn't planning on this when I got here, so I'm fine with leaving it alone. Just sitting here minding my own business...
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 11, 2007, 06:45 AM:
Lance I am not going to get into a lengthy deal on this and waste my time.Only a quick post.
There is a very distinctive line between recreational callers helping ranchers and ADC work. Don't confuse what you are doing or have done as ADC work.
Many men have tried to do this job and been run out. Some never figure it out! Whether they are uneducated or highly educated.
I would look at the fact that you seem to have every paid ADC guy on here pissed at you!
Cal not wanting to speak fo ya, but Lance if you think the only difference between yourself and Cal in being paid and time your dreamin.
Don't put on our hats until you take on everything that goes with it, you don't have a clue!
Anyone who publishes in a nationwide publication about how he backdoors landowners that won't give him permisson shows his true colors. It took a highly educated, professional, nonpaid person to do that!
The main reason any ADC guy is hesitant about giving any information to anyone is because it bit him in the ass by someone writing an article or going around town proclaiming he is now the greastest.
You will get the vanilla, general answer and that's it!
Earn their respect and trust and you get a boatload of info.
As an example, of professional writing, Higgins article about misting giving props to those who did it before him. Leonard etc. Excellent!
I'm sure your producer is impressed by your results by now.
Can't wait for the article!
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on August 11, 2007, 07:09 AM:
After reading all post, I had some suggestions but lance you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. Belittling the very people who can help you isn't smart in my book, we don't know all and can learn something from everyone who spends alot of time a field.
[ August 11, 2007, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 11, 2007, 08:00 AM:
Since youre coyotes are fond of cats you need to get one for youre self and use for bait or as a decoy where you have youre traps placed. Place cat in dirt hole ass-end up or put in small cage and set traps nearby...good luck
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 09:02 AM:
I guess I need to read this and find out what happened. I've been out of town, without a computer, but normally read every post, if I can.
Please don't do any editing, I don't want to read a sanitized version, like what happens (you know where)
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 11, 2007, 09:23 AM:
Read away Leonard, No editing here. A little controversy now and then is what makes this place interesting and fun to hang around. The part that Lance doesn't understand is that a little light jabbing here and there just makes this all the more interesting for me. I love his comments and knowledge of the ADC system as a whole. I'll have to be careful with all his comments about how great the Feds are or my head will swell. (I don't think he knows who I work for). But the reality of it is that I know employed ADC people on every level, federal, state, county, and many that are just hobby trappers and callers and there is every level and ability in all of them. The truth is it doesn't matter who you work for, or even if you get paid, it comes down to the individual. There are good, bad, workaholics, and lazy SOB's at every level. It is the same as any other career or job. Hell, I'm betting that CDog is a pretty good mail man! But I bet there are also a bunch of sorry ones, and they are (gasp) federal employees.
If you want some really good info, Lance, you should get in touch with that guy in Utah where you were gettting some info for articles before. But wait, it is Saturday, he may have a little league game!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 10:31 AM:
Okay, I read it.
Lance. You need to have realistic expectations. I have been around these things as long as anybody, and maps and diagrams and figuring out a plan of attack, never seems to work, from a keyboard. Therefore, it just isn't fair to expect failproof advice from the "Feds". And, it isn't fair to respond to whatever advice you did get, whether it is just "good luck" or real assistance, with; what I can see, was interpreted as a flippant reply. As you know, people don't like to use generalizations and then have somebody hammer them on the exceptions. So, you need to understand there is a no win predicament in any thoughtful responce. You are aware of all this; since this isn't your first rodeo on the Internet, either.
Cal, I don't see any serious provocation that you could not have easily ignored. I do see provocation, but you know your shit, and everybody knows you know your shit , so it's like a little ribbing about shooting skills ; we need to laugh these things off, from time to time. As you mentioned, you can't kill coyotes from a chickenshit map, so it's just something to "bs" about on the message board. Probably not going to solve the problem, everybody knows that? But it might be food for thought, cheap entertainment, without giving away secret ADC strategies.
In short, (and perhaps too late for that) but maybe we can forget the offensive dialogue on both sides and move on? Both of you should be able to walk away and not think that I am assigning responsibility to one or the other. (even if I personally believe someone to be responsible) On the other hand, I have seen worse shit than this get patched up, and return to a civil discusion, if so inclined.
As I have said on numerous occasions, I'm just one of the guys, no expert coyote hunter, certainly not brilliant, but I recognize skill, knowledge and talent when I see it. And, I (personally) wouldn't attempt to solve a coyote problem with a chickenshit map.
So that's my take. I hope there is some value in my opinion, I really don't like to adjudicate this shit and take sides, and I do not believe I am doing so, in this case.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 11, 2007, 10:46 AM:
Randy, enlighten me with this remark:
"Anyone who publishes in a nationwide publication about how he backdoors landowners that won't give him permisson shows his true colors. It took a highly educated, professional, nonpaid person to do that!"
I'm really very interested in how you drew this conclusion. I don't recall ever having done that. In the first place, I've never backdoored a landowner that turned me down. I have opted not to stand in their driveway and argue the point with them, then assessed the feasability of securing the permission of neighboring landowners so we can call the coyotes off the refusers property to that where we have access. Is that the point you're referring to?
Also, while I have your ear, you're about ten chapters behind. I have, on many, many occasions, stated that I understand and appreciate that there is a big difference between ADC men, and recreational callers. You're preaching to the choir, and up to now, I've been an advocate of that position. At the same times, I have given accolades to those that do ADC for a living. And, once again, since some of you guys seem to have selective reading comprehension, as I have stated before, I have never given information in a piece that wasn't properly credited to my source. Are your remarks just another rehashing of Huber's statements that I somehow stole Leonard's idea on misting and capitalized on it for personal gain? Maybe some of you fellas ought to take a second and check with Leonard. Maybe even read the article and see that the text is chockful of his name, including quotes, as my primary source. Maybe someday, when Cal's got more than four columns under his belt as a writer, should he choose to expand the quality of his writing, he'll understand the benefit of diversifying his material through interviewing sources. He does well and I enjoy his column, but what does he do when it copmes time to rerun the same material or find something new? This isn't rocket science and there are only so many things that can be said about whistling up a coyote.
Hey Leonard, how many revisions and rewrites of that article did we go through before you gave me the green light to send it in? You recall being a part of that process, or what? Yeah, Randy. We did the first piece on misting several years ago in T&PC. Leonard, Higgins, and I collaberated on that piece. You know what else? The idea for the story was Higgins' idea, that he suggested to me. Wheres' the plageuirsm here/ Explain that to me. In fact, why don't you be more specific about any of my articles. I really don't feel the need to defend my work, but am prepared to do so.
As far as pissing off all the ADC people in the country, not really. You guys? Yeah. Your problem, not mine. LOL Just makes me more inspired to go out, interview learned callers, and print what they want to pass along to the recreational hordes that seem to make your lives so miserable.
Tim,
Using a domestic cat in that capacity in Kansas is now a felony. Bunny huggers! Good idea, nonetheless.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 11, 2007, 10:47 AM:
I love this bar..... And I aint even in this scuff up. Even better.
To lighten things up, maybe, I heard a good one yesterday. I was talkin with one of the ranchers I hunt on alot and he asked if I was going west any this year. I started telling him of the current plans I have and he told me of a Kansas coyote hunt he got in on one time.
He said back in the 70s he was out there with some fellas pheasant hunting. After they got done with the birds, someone mentioned a coyote hunt. He said some of the guys that worked there got on dirt bikes and grabbed hammers and took off.
He said they got a couple, but sounded like a good wreck waitin to happen to me.
Ok, Im out, continue on.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 11, 2007, 01:01 PM:
To all concerned of HM, I hope no one, including Lance, would take my remarks as me being mad or vidictive towards anyone. This is all in good humor Leonard, and I am having a ball with it. I suppose I could have left out my colorful opinion of the map, but other than that I meant no foul. If this were PM and someone posted the same map, there would have been 47 arm chair expert opinions, at least here everyone is honest enough to know that it would be poor speculation at best without actually being there on the ground and knowing the situation. Hell, even Lance should know better than to expect much out of it. But he chose to direct it at the "Gubmint hunters" and so that only leaves a few options for guys to reply. He set it up to a specific few. Trolling, maybe, I don't know, but I think he already knows enough on his own to not really need to post the question. He had already decided to set traps, before he posted, so why ask when you already have the answer. Then he chose to really stick his foot in his mouth when posting that the Federal guys would be so much more qualified than a lowly county hand. Not really true, but damn, talk about playing right into someones hand. You have to admit that was funny stuff .
As for my witing Lance, it's just a fun way to make a few extra bucks. I was asked for some information that pertained to something I knew a little about personally. When that peters out, and it will, I will turn the quill over to someone else. I have already been asked about nose hound and sight hound articles and I politely bowed out because I have no experience in those areas and think they would be better written by someone with actual experience. There are writers that hunt some and write alot about others experiences and hunters that write some about their own experiences. Neither is any better than the other, because a truley talented writer is enjoyable to read even if he is writing about some one else. But for me, I am just a hunter that struggles to get something on paper that is reasonably coherent. Definetly do not consider myself as a talented writer. Capstick is a talented writer. When I am out of info, I'm out, and on to something else. I may write some about just regular calling, maybe about a little bowhunting, who knows, but I will stick with what I know to be true. There seems to be alot of things that can go wrong if you are basing your writing on someone elses information, or mis-information as the case may be.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 11, 2007, 01:07 PM:
DDDDamn, Cal. I expect you to take a couple of whacks with a machete and instead you go to work with a scalpel. Seriously impressive.
Too funny about Lance getting suckered by the Utah little leaguer. He got me too, big time.
Several years ago the fellow was active on these boards and his screen name was very familiar.
He began e-mailing me to discuss various coyote things. He needed one of my howlers for a particular problem coyote so I made one for him. He told me he had access to private ranches in Az. that he trapped on and asked if I would partner with him in the up coming World Calling Contest. We made rudimentary arrangements to enter. One afternoon I called his home phone number that came up on my caller ID from one of his phonecalls to me and a nice lady answered.
I asked to speak to ******.
She said he isn't home from school.
HMMMM.
Is he an instructor?
No, a student.
Which college?
****** High School.
I thanked her politely and hung up. He never contacted me again.
Apparently he was too busy pumping Scott for info and then posting it on the trapping forums as his own. Seems he got Lance in the same way.
Speaking of which...
Lance has called me and e-mailed me many, many times while writing various articles for substantiation or verification of certain facts and I have been always impressed with his thoroughness and his willingness to credit his sources.
Edit:
Cal posted the previous post as I was writing this one.
You are a class act, Cal, and you make me want to be and do better.
[ August 11, 2007, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on August 11, 2007, 02:28 PM:
A few years ago I made a post on one of the trapping sites looking for any info about an ole gov't hunter from Utah named Ted Riggs..I got an e-mail from Utah Little Leaguer saying he had been checking his traps the other day and run into Mr. Riggs and if I had any questions he would relay them to Mr. Riggs the next time he saw him..only problem was Ted Riggs was dead and had been for 4-5 yrs..I thanked him and told him I had already found what I needed
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 03:06 PM:
Geeze, how dense can I get? I know the little leaguer, also, now that 3toes remark was explained to me. I even sold him a special hunting light that I made myself. And, I know the origin of the Scott/Lance disagreements, and that it originated in Utah.
But also, Lance is correct about sending his article for review and/or approval, everything he said about me, or my opinions was approved by me. I have no complaint about my words, thoughts or deeds being used out of context.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on August 11, 2007, 03:55 PM:
this is getting deep...I must be in the dark, all this caused by a kid in Utah?
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 11, 2007, 04:14 PM:
Jeremy, you would understand if you still lived in Kansas. See what happens when you become a Texan?
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on August 11, 2007, 04:55 PM:
haha hey now...I still call Kansas home and frequent often so I'm a KanTexan.
I think I missed the start of Lance's and Scott argument to figure out where the boy fits in.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 11, 2007, 06:09 PM:
The guy asked for a few suggestions maybe thinking there was something he may have overlooked or not thought of. Then it crumbles into this? You give him crap about it not being ADC work and blah blah blah..... I think he knows that, WE KNOW THAT but it seems you guys always take offense to a guy lending a hand.
That's like a mechanic getting pissed at you for helping a buddy fix his goddamned car. "BUT is he ASE Cetified!? I could give you a pointer or a story relating to that engine knock but it wouldn't help 'cause I can't tell what year Pinto that is just by looking at a picture."
Hang a shingle out and relate a story of the uncallable coyote for Christ sake. It's not only for HIM. It's for all of us!
[ August 11, 2007, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 06:21 PM:
Message received, smithers. It's probably a little too nuanced for a few other members, as well?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 11, 2007, 07:33 PM:
Nuanced? I think smithers was anything but subtle.
(edit) Doh! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
You meant the issue.
[ August 11, 2007, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 11, 2007, 07:37 PM:
Jeremy,
If you missed it, I did, too. I've only known two people in Utah - Bryan Ward and UTCaller - with whom I've corresponded. Probably my Alzheimers and very well could be my ADD, but I'm at a total loss. If someone would be so kind as to e-mail me this person's name and relate to me my association with them, I'll be more than happy to embarass myself by telling the story.
Cal,
Sometimes you really piss me off.
Update: Set six traps out. As a precautionary measure, I got these traps out of storage, power washed them and boiled them for an hour before waxing them with new wax. In three nights, four of them have been dug up and no catches. The good news is that cat losses have been stopped. Plan D is to light the CRP on fire and wait downwind for the bastards to come running out.
[ August 11, 2007, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on August 11, 2007, 07:42 PM:
Calvin,
I'm glad you and Higgins finally came clean on this one. Don't both of you feel much better now?
He was in high school...now that's funny right there.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 11, 2007, 07:52 PM:
It is very nuanced. It is an exercise. What would you do if......?
Hell, the coyotes may not even be there in 3 weeks time. Variables out the wazoo to be sure.
He had a simple question that there is no simple answer to.
For all we know he may be sneaking up on motorized shoulder mounts!
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 11, 2007, 07:58 PM:
Lance this is how I came up to this conclusion,I am typing word for word from the TPC article,
"If I find a particular tract of land that I'm convinced is a fur pocket, but I can't get permission to hunt it, I refer back to my county directory to see if I can get the permission of a neighboring property owner. "
"With some luck, I can get their signature and identify a place where I can call predators OFF THE OTHER PROPERTY, and on to the tract where I have the green light."
Maybe I made the wrong assumption?
Do you really think this will ever open up that property to you when he finds out you are calling on the neighboring properties to the coyotes on his ranch? Most people who obtain permission to call on a certain piece of property are doing so with the intent of taking some coyotes off the said property they have permission to be on. You go with the intent to call them off of the other property you don't have permission on from the get go.Back Door!!!!
Let's see what could be the reasons he didn't want you there: either himself or family or even friends want to call,he does commercial predator hunts, or he just likes having some coyotes on his place!Good public relations!
The reference to the Higgins article was the point to you of it being polished and structured in its context. It did not have me making assumptions like I did after reading yours. That's only my opinion!! Maybe no one else made that assumption after reading that?
Lance defend away, just don't go postal!
For the record the Utah deal made me smile when I heard it.Almost as big of a smile as when I heard the PROSTITUTE one!
Lance if your comments are sincere about ADC-rec. callers you have my apology, once again an assumption on my part.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 07:59 PM:
Cripes, Lance. Do you need the roof to fall on you? I mean, I'm slow, but I finally figured out the beef and the history. (hint:wht mtn)
But, we don't need to rehash it here, okay?
edit: PS I have been known to "back door" in some cases, such as military installations and neighboring Countries to the south.
[ August 11, 2007, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 11, 2007, 08:25 PM:
Randy R., Charles Dobbins writes of the same technique in his book on trapping. Apparently there is a minority that finds it unbecoming.
Hell, the guy you can't get permission on is more than likely "backdooring" every neighboring property he adjoins to.
You must have some big land out there if they stay on one property. I call some spots where they have to come through 4 or more to get to where I am.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 11, 2007, 09:07 PM:
So "Utah Trapper" aka "White Mtn Cur" was the high school kid? Sheesh... I musta typed up 20 pages answering his email questions about rifles. He did ask good questions though... Had me fooled too I guess.
- DAA
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 11, 2007, 09:25 PM:
Smithers, intent, is my main beef.
We do have big tracts of land 5000 or more acres are common. 172,000 acres in the Turner ranch.
My opinion is that if the guy who owns the property the coyotes are bedding on won't let me call it, I'd leave them alone and anything nearby the borders. I wouldn't want anyone crowding me or back dooring, so I would treat them the same. It's just going to lead to a very uncomfortable confrontation that I really don't want. The risk of this landowner getting pissed and ruining any and all hopes of getting on it in the future far out weigh a couple of back doored coyotes and my reputation.
If you head out on a ranch and unintentionally call coyotes off the neighboring ranch whether you have permission or not ,the intent was not there.
It's just what I would or wouldn't do. Everyone else can draw your own conclusion. Maybe I am in the minority on this issue?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 09:54 PM:
quote:
It's just what I would or wouldn't do. Everyone else can draw your own conclusion. Maybe I am in the minority on this issue? Randy Roede
That's great. I applaud your integrity, Randy. Especially, if the "intent" is dishonest.
There we were, last year, on the World Hunt, and buying a hunting license to hunt the Navajo Re$ervation. The agent was showing us how to sit on Navajo tribal land, and call coyotes from off the adjacent mesa, which was on Hopi Tribal land, where they do not license nonresidents....including Navajos. We didn't do it.
However, coyotes move under over and through fences all the time and who cares where they sleep? I have seen hunters in lawn chairs wait on migrating mule deer to cross the center of a road so they were legal to shoot. That is probably common, some places? I have also seen Nevada Wardens watch the California border with binocs to make sure those California deer were killed before they reached the "safety" of the 1ndian re$ervation on the NV side. So borders (property lines) matter in a lot of various, and legitimate ways.
Good hunting. LB
[ August 11, 2007, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 12, 2007, 06:33 AM:
Leonard, my only issue is intent in a nationwide publication, that gives a public perception of "back dooring".
Can ya tell I just went thru two days of media training!
The professor on the first day asks all the CO's in the group about how their job being dangerous, meeting people who have guns etc. Then says a statement to the fact that they are all drunk too.
A perception in the room full of people that most hunters while in the field violate the law, and are all drunk. In a room full of hunters and nonhunters. The pupils then became the teacher and he withdrew his remarks and admitted his mistake. He wasn't a hunter and the public opinion of hunters meant little to him.
There are anti hunters and hunters ,in Ca. you now this well, the voting majority who are somewhere in the middle are the decision makers. They make decisions on what they hear and what they read. Most have no field experience and never will. Although remarks in a hunting publication are read by mainly sportsman, not as damaging as a general publication, it still effects these voters when it comes to hunting legislation and public opinion!
Like I said maybe it's just me?
Maybe I'm a little cranky cause my mother in law has been here for a few days, god dam it!!!!!!
Lance, if I ever write an article you read feel free to preach to me.I do and will be doin more. As an author of published articles I'm sure this isn't the first one to be questioned.
Things happen in the field, and some of those are better left there. For the good of all.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 12, 2007, 07:44 AM:
Lance,
My wife tells me the same thing occasionally.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 12, 2007, 08:40 AM:
Cal,
I'm sure she does.
Randy,
I can appreciate and understand your response to that section of my most recent piece, and given that you're from SD where the parcels you hunt run a bit further to the horizon, I could understand your interpretation. But, I believe we have an apparent clashing of cultures, as far as how the landscape is partitioned, and you wouldn't be the first "westerner" that has made that mistake.
In the initial picture of this thread, you see a map. The section containing the outlined 80-acre tract is a prime example of what I was referring to in that statement. The golden rectangle is owned by a guy named Purdy. The north half of the same quarter-section is owned by a private company, but leased for farming by a guy named Miller. The NE quart-section is owned by yet another company and leased to another party for grazing rights. The SW quarter (actually southernmost 100 A) is owned by a guy named Whitter, while the remaining 220 acres north of that, including the NW quarter-section is owned by Miller. In this example, we have five different property owners and actually, six different parties to contact in order to be able to hunt this 640 acres from anywhere. Cross the road to the south and you have the next section owned by Hottman's, Hoffman's, the guy who lives due east of Hottman's and one other (don't have my plat map in front of me right now). These two sections are where we're focusing our efforts at this point, and that means we have roughly ten different landowners to work with to hunt this one relatively small area effectively.
Miller's pastures, which border the CRP we're hunting on, is currently being grazed rotationally by a herd of about 150 black angus cattle. His reasons for not allowing us on there are because he doesn't want anyone spooking his cattle. Once he moves them to winter pasture or puts them on feed at his farmstead, he said we can have the full run of the place, but that will be mid-November. The other tracts are off limits right now in that section only because I can't get Whitter on the phone. The section south, we have full run of, but have seen very little activity down there aside from their feeding trips past the farm, and all our responses to locating with howls have come from either Purdy's CRP, or Miller's pasture. Also, the guy east of Larry's and a house SW of Larry's both have large military families and they shoot a lot in and down into Larry's creek and have ATV trails all through there. My initial suspicions were that all that activity would keep the coyotes from bedding in those areas, and thus far, have proven accurate.
If your misperception of my words is like what I've seen in the past, you think in terms of ranches. We think in terms of farms. A ranch here is, maybe, a half-section of ground where some urbanite-turned country bumpkin has built a $250,000 house and a matching steel building where they keep their Escalade and Lexus that they drive to their medical or law practice in town. They erect a huge wrought iron gate over the 100-foot long driveway with some bullspit made up name on it, calling it a "ranch", i.e., Prairie View Ranch", then complain because the coyotes are eating their froo-froo dog's dog food at night and whippin' his butt every chance they get. Around here, THAT'S a "ranch". And I'd wager it's not even close to what you think a ranch is.
The only difference between a ranch and a farm, around here, is that a farmer lives in a house that needs painting, his cars are ten times older than his tractor and combine, and his clothes and boots are both covered in dirt and cow shit.
When we set up our permission, we use the technique I addressed, in large part because it's more efficient. If Farmer A says he'd rather us not hunt on his place, I can easily (usually) garner permission from a neighbor whose land puts me within 500 yards of anything on A's ground. All I have to do is pull the coyotes off his ground.
The maps we create look kinda like a checker board with all the squares of one color marked off. No need to get everything, just every other thing.
In the majority of cases, the reasons we get for not getting permission are that the ground is leased for deer hunting, or the farmer has had a bad experience with hunters and lets no one on his ground. Many of those previously off limits tracts have come open to us after we demonstrate that we don't cause him any problems, or that we're only after predators and the critters that kill and harass the critters his kids, family, or leasors are after. Nearly half of the entire 73,000 acres we'll have access to this year will be off limits until after firearms deer season in early December. I never argue with a farmer. It's his land and rather than piss him off more at hunters, I'd rather put my energy into winning him over by acting responsibly. I pretty much addressed that in the article when I stated that I leave them a card and ask them to contact me if they ever have any problems.
Unfortunately, there are a litany of different circumstances under which guys like you and I hunt, from areas packed with small-sized tracts and multiple owners like here, to large-scale ranching operations where you can hunt the same guy's ground for several days and never reach the edge, to BLM and Forestry ground. With only "X" amount of space for any articles I submit, I can only cover so much. And, since my job is to cover calling in the farm country of the central states, I write with the (apparently sometimes false) assumption that the reader is thinking of my material in that context.
You aren't the first person to not realize the difference between here and there. Most of the predator hunting boards are populated by western hunters, many of whom have never been in an area where riparian timbers and deciduous hardwoods take up as much real estate as do pastures and open country. I've hunted both and others, and know that there are both big and subtle differences in many respects. I go to places like NE and eastern CO each year for the very reason that those areas are easier to call. Until I retire or find a job that can provide for me and my family in an area like that, I'll be forever envious of those of you that already live there. Three years ago, the Post Office in Scott's Bluff, NE, had an opening for a city carrier into which I could transfer and not lose seniority . When I asked the wife about that, she told me, "No way" You yourself said there isn't anything there but Q, coyotes and cows! What in the hell are the rest of us supposed to do with our time!" LOL (I took it as a no.)
UPDATE: We were on site this morning at 5:30, 200 yards south of the fenceline along the northwest corner of the CRP. As the light improved, I was pleased to find a coyote bouncing around in a foot hold at the NW corner of the pasture. Disappointingly though, it wasn't one of the three I want , as they are all adults. This one is a young female, but we'll take her.
She's a start
This trap is nearly 25-years old, but they're still some of my favorites for getting a good hold. #2 Northwoods square-jawed with offset jaws, 4-coiled with #3 springs.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 12, 2007, 09:17 AM:
It gets pretty claustrophobic around here some of the time. 172,000! You can breathe out there.
A few questions I have for any of the ADC guys Federal State or Local because it is of general interest to me personally. No bait, no switch.
You are told where the problem coyotes are, in a general vicinity. Correct? How much scouting goes into each problem call? You don't have to gain permission to hunt except in your minimal leisure time? Do you call, trap or snare most often? I know the situation will dictate method but on average which method takes more animals? Which method do you find most satisfying?
P.S. I graduated High School 15 years ago and don't want anything in return for your answers.
P.P.S. Nice job with the traps CDoug.
[ August 12, 2007, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 12, 2007, 09:31 AM:
Thanks, smathers
I have a question that's always been with me. I met Bill Austin many years ago and he told of how he often slept in his truck cab for a day or more, listening to the coyotes he was after to discern which ones were where in the heirarchy, and to get a feel for their movements. Do a lot of you guys still do that?
Update: Just got a call from Hottman's. Wouldn't you know it,... twenty minutes after we left their place this morning, a single coyote comes north out the the creek east of their house Airwwolf east of him takes a 400 yard Hail Mary shot at it. From his description, it was tracking toward one of our sets on its way back toward its daybed in the CRP. That guy next door just can't help himself, I don't think. I know he sure isn't helping me.
[ August 12, 2007, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 12, 2007, 10:50 AM:
Lance: My area is very much like youre's, one mile sections devided into 1/4's. As far as getting permission to hunt just coyotes or fox on these properties its not too hard to get. there are a few here and there that don't allow hunting at all and its no big deal. Come breeding season if there is a coyote there to begin with it well leave that property in search of a mate and thats when we get them. We have one big farmer that has some real good coyote ground but has alot of feed lots there also and he don't allow anyone to fire a gun near the building sites, but he will let us go in on foot with no gun and chase them out..
I also go out to some areas close to where Randy lives and it is pretty much the same, just knock on a few doors and ask, and give them some references if they are needed....
Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on August 12, 2007, 01:41 PM:
I enjoy Lance's articles and appreciate the fact he will talk to experts and do the "due diligence" to make sure that information is presented well and that his readers have access to good information.
I also appreciate reading first hand accouts by the experts. That is why I am anxiously awaiting Cal's article on turkey hunting.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 12, 2007, 03:23 PM:
Good job CDog.
Smithers and CDog, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I camp on coyotes all the time. I don't sleep in the truck but am convinced that the tent cot may be on of mans finest inventions. If I have coyotes I can't find, usually a night or two out and they will give themselves away. This is refering to littered up family groups. If you have drys killing they will be so hit and miss that it takes persistance and luck to ever find them. As for having good info on where they may be (from ranchers etc.) it can be hit or miss.
I spend alot of time doing preventive work, so that my trouble calls are fewer, but right now is the time when you think you are ahead but family groups are mobile and all of the sudden you will have a crew move to the sheep and start killing and they leave you scratching your head wondering "where in the hell did these come from". Everybody is mobile and they aren't living in a hole that you can pin them to or in so you shoot what you can, have the plane kill what they can, and clean the rest up with other methods. (Traps,snares, etc.) The only factor that you can count on right now is water. We don't have alot of it and they will be close to it at least once a day.
Bradford, turkey hunting? LOL! My reputation precedes me. You'll more likely see me writing for Ebony. (I was born a poor black child).
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 12, 2007, 03:41 PM:
Another of Leonard's "nuances". Now everyone in the know is thinking that the message is you are a jerk?
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 12, 2007, 04:30 PM:
quote:
I was born a poor black child.
Son, you wouldn't know shit from shinola.
Nuanced, shmuanced. Coyotes are coyotes are coyotes. Atleast that's what I have read.
One of these days I will get out and call and kill some instead of typing about them. I haven't logged enough computer time to hunt them effectively.
You are all invited to my next tee-ball game. We are in the championship!
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 12, 2007, 05:03 PM:
3 Toes, do you know if the planes are back in business again. I had read recently that they were grounded after the latest crash in Utah?
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on August 12, 2007, 05:11 PM:
Man, when you guys started talking about "back dooring" each other while on a stand, I gotta tell ya, I was a little nervous about where this thread was going, I know you fellas to the north(Randy) & south(Lance} of me do things that the rest of us don`t want to know about but Wow!
And then you write articles about it?!?!
I must`ve stumbled into the wrong bar.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 12, 2007, 05:20 PM:
Smithers to answer your questions, I am speaking for myself, each ADC person does things different.
Sometimes the rancher info is right on othertimes it is not ,I usually do my own homework and usually have some history on these places. Any information is good just some is worth alot more.
About permission, I have to have a realease signed to work on the producer! Some want to be informed everytime you are on the place,and some allow the freedom of being able to work the ranch when it fits my schedule.The majority of my 2 million acres I cover is released!
As for method, I solve most of my coyote complaints with a rifle, call and decoy dogs. I only run the dogs from May to Sept. I am in a low number period and once numbers come back this may all change but as of today!
I like using the rifle and a call because the majority of the time I can produce dead coyotes on the first trip to the complaint,by majority I mean 90 percent of the time or better, and move to the next one. Some require followups if I am not happy with what I harvested or if the killing is still going on. Which may lead to traps, snares and even aerial hunting should I see fit. The traps and snares do occupy alot of time, both on the original set up and each return visit. Some complaints are 150 miles one way for me. Quickly and effectively shutting down the problem for the producer is the number one goal with whatever it takes!Doing it in a 40 hour work week with the least amount dollars spent also comes into play. We don't have the big bucks like the FEDS do!!!!!
For the past two years for sure I know I have harvested more with the call than any other method,including the plane, and that's excluding pup numbers from the calling totals. It's my thing, some of our guys set traps, some fly, it varies with many different things. This is what works for me now!
I am always doing a balancing act of number one helping my producers, doing it in the most effective manner, and taking enough coyotes to delete the problem without effecting the local callers or trappers. Not always possible but I try.
Lance, yep if you have to find out where they live you will become nocturnal. Your wife will think you got a honey on the side. Your neighbors will think your crazy. But it's a great job!
Also I didn't mean to bust your balls, just think the whole overall article would have been better if those two paragraphs were not in it.You'll get your chance to return the favor I'm sure!
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on August 12, 2007, 06:00 PM:
3T and Randy, thanks for the answers. I am sure the ways and means of ADC are as varied as in the recreational arena.
Good times. Bad times.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 12, 2007, 06:25 PM:
Thanks for the insight, gentlemen. As much as I wish I'd been in a place where I could have sought a job like that, fifteen years being away from my home and family, sleeping every third night in the station bunks and getting called out of bed a bunch of times I was at home have made me something of a nighttime homebody. I admire you guys for the job you do, just like I admire the old trappers of old.
On another note, I'm going through old articles to find any reference to Trevor. Finally found the misting article - January, '04 - and the only sources in it are Leonard and Higgins. I'll keep digging.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 12, 2007, 08:45 PM:
TR, as for the Feds they were flying again about two weeks after the Utah accident. The wreck was June 1 and I think they were in the air again by the 15th or so.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on August 13, 2007, 07:22 AM:
Dang... I never knew that WMC was a kid playing ADC. I had kinda wondered the past couple years what happened to him or her?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 13, 2007, 11:08 AM:
I'm still curious as to where I come into this deal with him. Supposedly, word is that I cited him in an article and, specifically mentioned, rumor is also that it was the one I did with Leonard on misting. I went through nearly 30 articles last night and there is nothing in any of them referring to him. I also keep a card file including addresses, e-mail addies, and contact information, as well as how I know a person for all my taxidermy and call customers, as well as perople with whom I've collaberated on articles. He's not in there. I do recall him now, but I don't recall any affiliation with him beyond corresponding on the internet. Having said that, it sounds like I'm not the only one to be duped by him. That's funnier than hell.
Now, if someone can direct me to one of my articles where I did use him as a source, I'd be glad to review it and try to find out where things went askew. I'm curious as hell, too. Especially since my sources are extremely limited in number and time, as far as how long I've been using them. If it did happen, I should have the areticle around here.... somewhere.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 13, 2007, 11:36 AM:
Lance, I had nothing to do with it, but as I heard it, the kid specifically requested not to be mentioned, so if that's what you are looking for, it probably isn't there? I do know that the matter lies at the root of your relationship with Scott, who was the uncredited, and actual source.
Beyond that, you will just have to figure it out, but you are correct about one thing, a lot of us had contact with him, and didn't see through him.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 13, 2007, 03:28 PM:
Leonard,
I spoke with Rich on this last night and as he explained these small details, the issues with Scott became immediately clear to me. Given the circumstances of this matter, I'd be pissed, too, so I don't blame him a bit. It would have been nice if he, or someone, would have alerted me to this rather than have it drag on this long. And it wold have been nice had this subject not been the topic of conversations concerning me where I wasn't given a chance to explain or defend myself.
If I were in his place, I'd be upset as well. Maybe some day, Scott and I will be in the same place at the same time where we will have the chance to clear the air, drink a beer, and put this all behind us. I'm buyin'. Does he drink Bud Light?
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 13, 2007, 03:41 PM:
Yes he does!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 13, 2007, 04:05 PM:
He does, and it "looks"like he's running for Sheriff. lol
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 13, 2007, 04:42 PM:
LOL, And I thought that was just a Kansas Sheriff thing. I always wondered why we hired someone to do a job when they looked like they were going to be on maternity leave three days after they first clock in.
Leonard said, "but as I heard it, the kid specifically requested not to be mentioned"
You didn't hear it from me, nor did anyone else. I'll do some more searching, but I can't recall a thing I used from him that wasn't corroborated by either someone else I personally knew to be accurate, or my own personal experience. I don't always have three sources, but I've got enough experience to know BS when I hear it. And brains enough to talk to the right people when something sounds less than straight.
I understand that Scott is off the net these days. If one of you guys that know him would tell him that I was finally able to figure out what the hell the issue is, I'd appreciate it. And tell him that we may not cross paths for a while, but when we do, there's a cold beer at the crossroad.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 13, 2007, 04:50 PM:
Running!!!!!!! LOL I've got 20 I could lose too!!!
Lance, I will tell him.
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