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Author Topic: no signs of rubbing yet? TRnCO FUTURE HALL OF FAMER Member # 690 posted February 17, 2007 07:08 PM                    O.K., so in KS. last weekend, nearly every coyote showed signs of rubbing, 16 turned in at a small local calling contest. I took two male and 1 female this a.m., and picked up two more male from a rancher friend of mine that he shot a couple days ago, and no signs of rubbing on any of them. Does this heavy snow and cold effect breeding season dates? Although, in the past years, I could swear that the coyotes around here always had a later start to dogging, then in KS and other states anyways! Do coyotes, like deer, have that much difference in breeding dates across the country? -------------------- Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer! Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged TA17Rem Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all Member # 794 posted February 17, 2007 11:33 PM                    Here in Mn. the deer breed in late Oct.- early Nov. and the does come into second heat in Dec. Our coyotes don't breed untill Mid. Feb --first week of March. If we have snow on the ground we will hunt them till the middle of March. Rubbing has nothing to do with breeding. The loss of guard hairs on the shoulders and hipps is from the fur freezeing down at night when the temps are below 30's and alot of wind. The coyote gets up to go feed or what ever and breaks off or pulls the guard hairs that are frozen down. Severe rubbing can be from a coyote exiting a culvert or hole and coyotes that live in the thick stuff, we call it plum brush here or willows. Also as spring starts to approach they start the shedding process like a dog, deer, horses and so on. "No documented proof here just what i see happening in the coyote world" Rich H. studies the coyote vocals and so fourth and i study the conditions of the fur and how a coyote moves through-out his territory and then i try to kill a few. This year we got snow very late in the season and the snow we did get was'nt very much and the fur is the best i have ever seen for my area. I have five more i have to put on the stretchers and then its off to the fur buyer.... -------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird! Posts: 5615 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged TRnCO FUTURE HALL OF FAMER Member # 690 posted February 18, 2007 04:35 AM                    I question that the fur freezes down at night! If the animal is still alive, hence still warm, why would it freeze down. Wouldn't it instead actually thaw slightly and continually until the coyote rose? I mean, we've all seen where elk, deer, and coyotes have been bedded down, and there is a thawed depression where they layed! -------------------- Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer! Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 05:51 AM                   I've seen a boatload of tamped down [coyote & Red], bedded spots in the snow. Can't say, I ever seen hair on those spots. [not to say that doesn't happen]. Often those days were on below zero WC hunts. Anyway, I believe these rubbed guard-hairless areas[specifically, on the shoulders] are caused by mating rituals mostly. Secondly, by coyotes passing through tight spots. I also believe, coyotes do alot of rolling on marked areas[dead prey] & scent posts. All 3 playing a factor, in hair loss, IMO. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 05:56 AM                   When Red's or coyote are bedded. Their shoulders are not touching the ground. I've posted many pics of bedded coyotes on PM. The proof, is in the pudding Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Rich 2,000th post PAKMAN Member # 112 posted February 18, 2007 06:04 AM                       "When Red's or coyote are bedded. Their shoulders are not touching the ground. I've posted many pics of bedded coyotes on PM. The proof, is in the pudding" ----------------------------- Pretty much true here also. Minnesota coyotes must sleep on their backs? I wonder if they freeze down a lot up there? Can't get up until january thaw? -------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder. Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 06:35 AM                   We've owned a male German Shepherd & a male Belgian Malinois[sp?]. They both would roll on scent posts & dead animals. Mostly useing the sides of their muzzle/cheek area. Once on the ground over the scented spot/carcass. They would grind the tops of their shoulders, onto the scented area, while on their back. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 06:41 AM                   I'll post a few pics. Here's a large coyote bedded on a fenceline drift. http://www.hunt101.com/img/471375-big.jpg Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 06:44 AM                   Another coyote, samo, samo. Coyote's head is up, eyeing me. http://www.hunt101.com/img/472747-big.jpg Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 06:48 AM                   Balled-up coyote, between the corn rows[right below the horizen, Right-center of pic]. Head tucked under it's tail. http://www.hunt101.com/img/470820-big.jpg Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 06:51 AM                   If the snow is hard, sometimes they'll lay right on top. Other times, they'll dig a bed down near the soil & tamp down the loose snow before laying down. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged TA17Rem Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all Member # 794 posted February 18, 2007 06:54 AM                    I'm not saying there is a hand full of hair where the coyote has bedded, but if you look close you will see them. "Minnesota coyotes must sleep on their backs" Ya thats funny Rich! Actualy the coyotes leg and six inches of it from the Knee up is what touches the the ground or snow, also depending on how deep the snow is. 2dogs; look closer at youre pic's and then look at a coyotes pelt, the proof is in the pudding. Coyote fur is very dureable its not going to wear down 2-3" from a little breeding. Have you ever seen a full length fur coat that was rubbed from wearing it! Some-one posted on here saying that there is a very small window for the coyote to breed, 2-4 days. Like i said at the top there are other causes of the fur becomeing rubbed and nateral fur shedding, the trapping term i believe is springgy. -------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird! Posts: 5615 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged TA17Rem Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all Member # 794 posted February 18, 2007 07:00 AM                    We must have been typeing at the same time. Nice pic's, but how can you see how much of the coyotes fur is exsposed to the snow or touching the ground in those pic's. No proof there at all! -------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird! Posts: 5615 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 18, 2007 07:04 AM                   TA, I've been less than 50' from a bedded coyote. I don't have cataracts LOL!. I believe this "courting" of 2 coyotes is alot longer than just a couple of days. Unless she's a tramp . IE; more wear & tear on the shoulder quard-hair Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged nd coyote killer HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF Member # 40 posted February 18, 2007 07:12 AM                   I don't think that the breeding ritual is that tough on fur. Up hear it is more due to sunflowers, brush (no snow) and probably some of the freezing and thawing and pulling it out. In a recent conversation with Steve Allen the former Fur Bearer Manangement supervisor he estated that the average time for female coyotes to be in heat in ND is Feb 10-20 -------------------- "Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged albert Knows what it's all about Member # 98 posted February 18, 2007 07:28 AM                    Brush and such does a lot of damage in brushy area's coyotes fur get's rubbed out earlier than in non brushy areas. in southern Saskatchewan the coyotes are often rubbed by the end of jan. Female coyotes will get bite marks above there tail when breeding gets into full swing. I have seen where coyote fur is froze to the ground in there beds. A week of warm weather will take fur from good to trash once you get past the middle of Jan. -------------------- for what it's worth, eh! Posts: 195 | From: Parkland, saskatchewan, canada | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged Rich 2,000th post PAKMAN Member # 112 posted February 19, 2007 09:55 AM                       "Minnesota coyotes must sleep on their backs" Ya thats funny Rich! -------------------------- yep, funny is the word alright. I snicker just thinking about it. On really cold days when wind is blowing, minus 40 windchill factor, coyotes being froze to the ground and all, must make it much easier to catch em with a truck anyway? -------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder. Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 19, 2007 10:47 AM                   Here's a fresh coyote bed from today. http://www.hunt101.com/img/475223-big.jpg Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 19, 2007 10:50 AM                   There is the coyote laying on that bed. Around 190yrds out. I owed this coyote, so I shot over it's back Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted February 19, 2007 10:53 AM                   TA, I thought we were talking about "guardhair" Not under fur. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged TA17Rem Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all Member # 794 posted February 19, 2007 01:34 PM                    2dogs you don't know what you are talking about and i will leave it at that. Rich; The snow in most of the fields is too deep for trucks, but hay the snowmobile does a good job of flatting them out when they are frozen down... -------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird! Posts: 5615 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged Rich 2,000th post PAKMAN Member # 112 posted February 19, 2007 03:07 PM                       TA, Do they yip excitedly when they see you coming or is it just kind of THUMP !!!!! and a few ki-y's? -------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder. Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged TRnCO FUTURE HALL OF FAMER Member # 690 posted February 19, 2007 03:57 PM                    O.K., so if the fur does freeze down, how come the coyotes around here haven't been loosing fur all winter long. The snow has been deep since before Christmas, and we set record cold a few weeks ago, -18 degrees! Why haven't I seen any signs of "rubbing" from deep snow and cold temps.? -------------------- Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer! Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted February 19, 2007 04:30 PM                   Because its bullshit, thats why. They rub here too this time of year, every year. We dont have those extreme temps, and until this year, very little snow or ice for several years. I dont know the exact cause of it, but freezing off is laughable. Why wouldnt it freeze off in Dec and Jan? I would guess it has more to do with mating. -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Rich 2,000th post PAKMAN Member # 112 posted February 19, 2007 04:31 PM                       TRnCO, You don't see it because it really don't happen much. In all my years of hunting and trapping, I have seen ONE, yep ONE red fox with end of his tail frozen down. That was because it was caught in one of my traps and couldn't move very much. I have seen exactly Zero coyotes frozen down. Seen a lot of cockelburrs stuck in coyote fur, and seen a lot of em with guard hairs and flank fur rubbed from mating ritual though. Seen a lot of coons with fur rubbed real bad from crawling in and out of den tree holes too. -------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder. Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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