This is topic Chirp strikes twice in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on February 09, 2007, 12:28 AM:
I have been using this sound now just over a year. It took me quite some time to find the sweet spot on my howler but when I did it started to work for me. Now I don't have trouble finding that spot.
I was talking to Ronnie the other day and we were discusing diferent ways to incorperate this chirp with howling, when Ronnie asked me if I had a she howler. I told him no, I hadden't seen one here yet but as soon as I could I planed to get one.
In short I got one today in the mail. After playing with it for about 2 min I was on my way to a nearby ranch that I hunt hard. The coyotes there know my truck and head for cover whenever I pull through the gate.
The wind was out of the west so I drove 3 miles to the east side of the pasture, pulled down by the railroad tracks and parked. I grabed this new call and my TC/Encore, chambered in 20 tac and slithered over the tracks and walked around 200 yards to a spot where I could see a good distance. I just sat there about 10 min letting things settle.
I pulled this She howler out and made 4 chirps, waited 30 secconds and did it again. Before I got the call tucked back into my shirt I looked up to my right and spotted movement. It was 3 dogs comming on a string from about 200 yards out. I was watching those dogs closing the gap when I spotted movement to my left. At first I saw one but then the seccond came into view. This pair was at 60-70 yards so I moved my shooting styx and got ready for the shot.
I shot the first and closest dog first, then got another shell in the gun and started searching for another. I spotted the seccond at about 200-220 yards and headed straight away from me. I grabed the howler and gave it 3 sharp blasts and I'll be damned if that 2nd dog didden't stop, turn around and come back lookin. I shot her at approx 110 yards.
I was in total shock at how just the chirp had brought them in. Then after a shot it stoped the secconed. I went out and got the seccond dog first then picked up the first on my way back.
I put the drag on them and started back to the truck. As I toped over the tracks, lookin towards my truck to my suprize there were two more coyotes lookin at me from about 50 yards past my truck. By the time I got my TC off my shoulder and put another shell in it the coyotes were out of range and out of sight. I finished draging the first two to the truck and went through the ritual. The first dog I shot was an adult male that weighed in at 41 1/2 lbs. The secconed was a female that weighed 33lbs. This female is the biggers female I have killed in 2 years. The male is the seccond largest this year. I would think its safe to say they were both alphas. I only wish I had had My pard with me so we could have killed more than two. Randy is a much better shot at runners than I am.
The chirp this howler makes is much louder than the sounds I have been making on my howlers but there's No questioning it's effectiveness. I can't belive I called 7 coyotes on this first stand with this howler. As I said this pasture is a place I pound. I hunt this ranch harder than I would public ground because it belongs to a friend and he's asked me to keep the dogs out of there.
I sure like the little holes my 20 tac makes. As I was peelin these two I found 5 #4 buckshot just under the skin on the males right flank. This weren't his first rodeo.
I sure wish I knew just what this sound means to these dogs for sure. Hell, maybe its a swingers call..... Don't know but its working..
sly
[ February 09, 2007, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: slydog ]
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 09, 2007, 08:48 AM:
Slydog,
Thanks for the progress report. I just called allpredatorcalls and ordered one of those She Howlers. Speaking of howlers, I just shipped one off to your address this morning.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on February 09, 2007, 10:07 AM:
slydog,Thanks,it sounds like you had an exciting hunt.There still will be skeptisizm as to whether it's a female"estrus chirp" or something else.The main thing is,it works.
Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on February 09, 2007, 11:17 AM:
Guys I'm still replaying yesterday over and over in my head. I was worked up and didn't sleep much over this. My plan was to go out this morning but when I let the dogs out this morning it was raining and I don't do rain.....LOL
I still have more questions than answers but I can plainly see that there is more to this than I ever thought. I been after these critters 5-6th of my life and the one single factor that charges my battery is: These little rodent eatin,Road kill eatin, bug and snake eatin furballs always keep me wanting to learn more and be a better hunter.
I have always felt like I'm one step behind them. Yes I'm effective at killing them but there is always that one or two a year that totaly baffle my ass and just when I start to think I have it figured out, Well I'm reminded how little I do know.
I do know this, You just can't argue with success........
Rich, Very cool, I'm looking forward to getting it. I'm just about finished with yours. I'm thinking Monday for shipping but I'll send it 2 day air so you can play with it...
Melvin, I'm not foolish enough to think for one min that this is going to work like yesterday all the time but it does work most of the time. Yesterday was realy the first time that the chirp was the only sound I used on the hole stand but I wasen't there long enough to loose faith...LOL
Smote the yote
sly
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 09, 2007, 11:27 AM:
Sly,
No need for you to spend hard earned money for overnight mail. I sent yours first class mail, which is good enough for us old burned out call makers. Regarding the new "Chirp" sound, it doesn't matter much at this point as to the reason coyotes are responding to said sound. The important thing is that they are in fact coming in to investigate the sound. In time, we may better understand why it works.
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 09, 2007, 12:11 PM:
After playing with it for about 2 min I was on my way to a nearby ranch that I hunt hard. The coyotes there know my truck and head for cover whenever I pull through the gate.
I guess my question would be is it all the sound or could it be a higher concentration of coyotes in this area? You had 5 coyotes within 200 yrds in under a minute? Sounds like this area is ripe with coyotes for being so late in the year? This must be along a major travel way if you hit this area hard?
Real questions not trying to be a smart ass.
Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on February 10, 2007, 10:50 PM:
Coyote Wacker,
This ranch is about 9000 acres. Some is sagebrush and some is cheet grass. Its got some rolling hills and many small canyons comming from the foothills down to the flatt. I kill between 20 and 30 dogs there a year. Yes for around here this ranch produces quite a few.
However, as I said I hunt the hell out of this place. The coyotes on this ranch are traveling 3-4 miles to get to the calfing pens but they show up almost every night. I have been calling this place for over 16 years. At no time have I ever had this nuch reaponce on this property. After the rain stops I'm going to go back and pound it some more.
I realy feel that this sound trips an internal switch.
The one thing that I can figure out is that they are responding. Who gives 3 sh_ ts As to the reason or reasons they are responding as long as they keep comming, well it's late and I need the beauty sleep.....LOL
sly
Sorry about the repetive jabber last night but I was on fumes......lol
[ February 11, 2007, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: slydog ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2007, 06:02 AM:
Ok, I've heard the clip Steve posted and smithers sent me the clip from the video that was talked about. They both compare close enough but on the she howler instrucional dvd he goes about it a different way, almost like sharp barks(?) though I don't recall hearing "his" rendition anywhere during the calling segment on the film.
Sly, can you or anybody else post a sound clip of the way you're using it?
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on February 11, 2007, 10:27 AM:
Tom, if I had any remote idea how to post a sound clip I would be glad to do it. If you would like to call me between 10:00 am and 6:00 pm Monday through Thursday of this week. I will be glad to do it over the phone. PM me for number.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 11, 2007, 10:45 AM:
No two coyotes sound alike and I guess that would hold true for this sound as well. If the 'idea' is there that it is an estrus coyote they should get the picture.
On the She Howler I believe it is easier to blow lightly to get the sound. If you use light puffs of air instead of bearing down on the call it may work better for you. Tilt it up almost to your nose and puff air into it while clacking your tongue off the roof of your mouth. Or you can tap your tongue on the reed to get the same effect. The call is amazingly loud even without letting loose on it.
[ February 11, 2007, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2007, 10:52 AM:
Where the heck is the private message button?
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on February 11, 2007, 01:07 PM:
Tom. rrobison@gt.rr.com ..
Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on February 11, 2007, 01:17 PM:
Guys,
I realy don't think you can make this sound(on hand calls) to loud. I'm also sure that once you get the cadence and use your diaphram to "HUFF" into the call instead of blowing into it you will be on your way.
No to coyotes sound the same just simmilar so don't worry to much about the "EXACT" sound. Just get as close as you can and load your gun.
sly
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2007, 01:58 PM:
Never allowed private messages on HM, Tom. Administrative decision, long time ago. I'll ask the KHD, but I doubt he has changed his mind?
Ronnie, do you have some type of clip with sound, blowing this call? LB
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on February 11, 2007, 05:41 PM:
I'm going to try to explain how to make the chirps.Find the spot on your call"up from the tip of the tone board"Blow into the call and find where you can make a"high pitch
"whistling sound.After you have found this spot,give 4 or five quick huffs of air through the call.The chirps don't sound like barks to me.The chirp is more like the biginning and ends like the beginning of a fast"high pitch"puppy bark.I know you all have heard mouse squeaks.Try to imagine a mouse about the size of a coyote,making those squeaks.After some practice you can change the tempo,rising and lowering the chirps.
[ February 11, 2007, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Melvin ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 11, 2007, 05:56 PM:
Melvin, ( Or anyone else who makes this sound )
Can you record some sound bytes? I'm willing to post them if someone can send them to me. I think that there is a lot of interest in this sound, but most folks don't know what it sounds like.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on February 11, 2007, 06:49 PM:
Sly,
I guess I'm confused by your story. One minute you are talking about "dogs" and the next minute you are talking about "coyotes". Did you call in a pack of dogs because that is quite common on the ****** reservations but I'd hate to shoot someone's pet unless it was causing problems with livestock.
~SH~
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2007, 06:51 PM:
Thanks Leonard, thought I was losing my mind. E-mail works just fine.
Smithers has sent me a couple of helpful clips, maybe he could post them here?
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on February 11, 2007, 07:18 PM:
Leonard. My bad. I was trying to say use the envelope with the little guy standing beside it. I have been chirping so much over the phone I had to Gorilla glue my partial plate in. Guess it separated my two brain cells again.
Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on February 11, 2007, 08:32 PM:
Scott,
Well here we go again, seems some people never learn. I guess I'll have to explain myself one more time for those who just don't get it.
I have a degree in wildlife bio. and when I was studying, one of the animals my thesis was on (CANIS LUTRANS) loosley translated that means "BARKING FRICKIN DOG" was the animal that I studied. I will call them what ever I want to, hope you can keep up..... Look it up.
sly ...(GRINS)
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 11, 2007, 09:17 PM:
I think that's Canis Latrans.Good Hunting Chad
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 12, 2007, 05:18 AM:
yep UT it is latrans ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
So sly dog you must then have a masters degree? What was you thesis on with the coyote?
Nice definition of such.
A thesis statement is an assertion, not a statement of fact or an observation.
Example:Fact or observation: People use many lawn chemicals.
Thesis: People are poisoning the environment with chemicals merely to keep their lawns clean.
[ February 12, 2007, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 12, 2007, 06:27 AM:
You are muddying the waters again with your definition. Let's try again.
1.A proposition to be defended in argument.
This is essentially the definition that you chose to post.
The definition that would apply to the academic context is:
2. a research paper, esp. one written by a candidate for a masters degree.
The theses and dissertations written by the research biologists that I know are indeed treatises that result in propositions and conclusions.
HOWEVER, those conclusions are drawn from FACTS, both observed and learned from formal research, are subject to peer review and must be successfully defended.
The facts learned from most research add pieces to the overall puzzle and raise more questions to be addressed by additional research.
To dimiss a thesis as a mere "assertion" is a faulty assertion in itself.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on February 12, 2007, 06:51 AM:
Sly: "I have a degree in wildlife bio. and when I was studying, one of the animals my thesis was on (CANIS LUTRANS) loosley translated that means "BARKING FRICKIN DOG" was the animal that I studied. I will call them what ever I want to, hope you can keep up..... Look it up."
I would think that with a degree in wildlife biology you'd know enough to call a dog a dog and a coyote a coyote but then you are into impressing and I'm not.
A dog is a dog and a coyote is a coyote and the official name is "canis latrans" not "lutrans".
Tell any layman that you are out shooting "dogs" and they will take you at your word. Keep 'em dazzled sly!
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2007, 07:14 AM:
As I have said, many times, using the word can be ackward at times, so I have been known to say "dog" or "cat" when I am actually refering to a coyote or a bobcat. Almost never, in print, but frequently when talking to a partner, in the field.
I don't like all those 'yote and song dog nicknames, but calling a coyote a "dog" is a habit, of mine, and I'll probably slip, occasionally. Shameful, because I know the difference, so I'm glad to get it off my chest, the guilt has been tremendous, even enormous, at times.
So, Scott, remain ever vigilant! I do not want to confuse anybody, least of all, you!
Rich H, still, in all, a thesis should not be confused with established proven fact. Agree? It's opinion, just like everything else, but a little more long winded.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 12, 2007, 07:24 AM:
quote:
Rich H, still, in all, a thesis should not be confused with established proven fact. Agree? It's opinion, just like everything else, but a little more long winded.
Actually, I agree. But to dismiss coyote research in todays acedemic climate is a mistake. With research biologists such as Drs. Slivak, Jaeger, Knowleton, Bekoff, Wells, and Mitchell reviewing study results those opinions had better be couched in solid, proven and defendable fact. Those guys are as tough as Scott. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2007, 07:58 AM:
Rich, I respect the Academics and what they study.
But, when I know, and they know about influences and factors that skew results, wouldn't you think they would realize that netting coyotes from a helicopter every month is going to alter coyote behavior, to some degree? That's the "egg head" part that a lot of them are guilty of, and why it is virtually impossible to study a "control group" to validate field observations, in accordance with the scientific method. It is reading tea leaves, on a different plane. But, I would be the last person to suggest that it has no value.
Good hunting. LB
PS I sort of agree with a lot that has been said on both sides of the discussion. Yeah, a new and different sound can make all the difference, but I also agree that we can not know what a coyote is "thinking" or most importantly.... WHY he responds to a certain sound.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 12, 2007, 08:36 AM:
quote:
but I also agree that we can not know what a coyote is "thinking" or most importantly.... WHY he responds to a certain sound.
I believe that in many cases we can, simply because it is perfectly logical.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2007, 09:01 AM:
But see Rich I think that's where part of the problem lies.Logical to who, US or the COYOTE.We can TRY to think we know what goes on in a coyotes mind but can we really KNOW,I really doubt it.FWIW Chad
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on February 12, 2007, 12:24 PM:
oops! So much estrus flowing around here I posted in the wrong topic.
[ February 12, 2007, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 12, 2007, 01:19 PM:
But see Rich I think that's where part of the problem lies.Logical to who, US or the COYOTE.We can TRY to think we know what goes on in a coyotes mind but can we really KNOW,I really doubt it.FWIW Chad
Chad, therein lies the problem. You are still trying to attribute logic to the coyotes response and you do not recognize that it is possible to predict coyote behavior, as well as their responses to sounds, especially vocalizations, based upon a knowledge of what we KNOW certain vocalizations mean.
Time to contain this in a dedicated thread.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2007, 01:48 PM:
Rich,
There's a big difference between knowing coyote behavior,or knowing what a coyote MIGHT do in a given situation based on your(the callers)experiences over the years of calling in coyotes,and believing you know what a coyote is thinking or if they're even logically thinking at all in a given situation.Like Scott said earlier in the post unless coyotes start talking we don't and won't know what they're thinking.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on February 12, 2007, 02:27 PM:
Tim,I'll be honest with you,i never downloaded a sound file before and don't know how to do it.I talked to my grandaughter earlier and she said she will try to figure it out for me.
Chad,is it logical when a coyote hears howls,Female invitation,coyote distress,whimpers and puppy yips as another coyote?It's no different when they hear the chirps,they recognize it as another coyote.I kill very few coyotes and work hard for the few i get.One evening,i was walking a logging road that mendered along the top of a mountain,the snow was about 5 inches deep.In the snow was the tracks of 3 coyotes.These coyotes were walking the road and then turned off to the right and downhill.The tracks were fresh and one coyote was spotting blood.I stopped where the tracks went off the road and thats when i heard these unfamiliar sounding chirps.I only had a handgun with me and no calls.The first two or three sounds were something like high pitch yips and the ones that followed sounded more bird like,or like i said above.I can only tell you what i experienced and what i believe.I don't blame anybody for questioning it.If i hadn't heard it,i would question it myself.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 12, 2007, 02:56 PM:
Chad, we are NOT discussing what coyotes think in these threads. We ARE discussing what certain vocalizations mean and how the coyotes respond to them. Big difference.
Read the new thread and respond to it.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2007, 03:32 PM:
Melvin,
First off how did you KNOW the coyote was spotting blood,and not injured?
Second,Are you positive it was the coyote making the chirping sounds and not actually a Bird or other animal?I guess what I am asking is did you actually see it making the sound or just hear the sound?
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on February 12, 2007, 04:26 PM:
Chad,very simple,mostly where she squated.I guess she could have got bitten in the tender spot and hence the chirps. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Chad,I'm not going to try to convince you.The best thing to do is find out for yourself.I did have a picture of a coy-bird,but i deleted it.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 12, 2007, 04:48 PM:
O.K so she was in heat,you still don't know what the chirps mean.lol
[ February 12, 2007, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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