The New Huntmastersbbs!: Variables that contribute to success or lead to failure

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 27, 2007, 11:50 AM:

It's interesting to read all the opinions one can get on different topics discussed on these coyote calling forums.

Many times you will find successful coyote hunters that totally disagree on certain methodology but you seldom read the disclaimers relating to their specific areas that would explain the differences in their opinions.

Topics such as the importance of camoflauge, how long to stay on a stand, calling with or against the wind, continuous calling or intermittant calling (sp?), what you can get away with for movement, the value of howling, etc. etc.

For the novice caller, and the calling editors with limited experience looking for something original to write about, it can really be quite difficult to sort out the value in the information without referencing the variables associated with that information.

In this thread, I'd like to list many of these variables that affect coyote calling methodology from one area to the next in no particular order.

1. Coyote population in a given area.

2. The ratio of adult coyotes to juveniles (population dynamics).

3. Geography.

4. Habitat.

5. Calling pressure.

6. Human disturbance which would include various hunting seasons.

7. Weather / air density / wind / temperature

8. Time of year

9. Quality of sounds being elicited

10. Calling coyotes from within their territories as opposed to calling them towards sources of danger.

11. Prey availability

I just listed 11 individual variables that affect coyote calling success so consider all the combinations of those variables you could conceivably have and you start to realize why there is seldom consistancy in calling techniques from one area to the next.

The value of understanding these variables is to consider their application when receiving an answer for a question you may have asked so the answers you receive have more value.

~SH~

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 27, 2007, 07:54 PM:

I got to thinking awhile back[from what I recall] I've seen. Is the vast majority of coyotes out "hunting". Were traveling across or quartering the wind.

I would estimate mild pressure[from man] in my area. The main negative factor's in my area are;

Small land sections[mostly 1-sq. mile]
Little to no ground cover[especially Winter snowfly]

These small sections, allow the coyotes to see & hear most everything, that pose's a potential/real threat.

Whether a person, stalks in for a call set or stalk hunting. They'll hear/see you most of the time. Not to mention your vehicle moving/stopping a mile away.

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 27, 2007, 08:08 PM:

2 dogs,

No question that the situation you just described requires a different strategy. That's where it's nice to work in team effort with radio communication between hunters. If one hunter gets directly upwind of those coyotes, they'll generally run straight downwind to an eagerly awaiting partner. Some things about coyote behavior can be quite predictable.

~SH~

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 27, 2007, 08:20 PM:

10-4 Wiley. I know of what you say.

I hunt alone the majority of the time. Unless I have a wingman, which is rare.

The majority of the coyotes in my area. Hear & watch every vehicle from afar. If that vehicle slows, they raise their head. If that vehicle stops, even behind a hill. They'll stretch their head/neck forward staring hard...There ready to leave.

I see them as dots on the snow from afar. I can most of the time, tell driving slowly by them, whether their head is up. If it's up, I keep moving. Then I'll view them from another angle from atop of a distant hill.

I'll then drive around their entire section, looking for all landmarks, hills, valleys, structures, ect. Making my plan as I go.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 27, 2007, 08:25 PM:

http://www.hunt101.com/img/468622-big.jpg

Head up, 5/8 mile away

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 27, 2007, 08:27 PM:

http://www.hunt101.com/img/468601-big.jpg

Head down, pushing 1/2 mile away. Both pics zoomed on 6X. They both seen me, before I seen them.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 28, 2007, 04:46 AM:

More unknowns;

When I see a coyote on the move, I assume it's hunting[still hungry]. I realize they move for many reasons, not just looking for food. But when I see them walking, their always putting their nose to the ground. Et panning around, looking/listening.

"hunger" continued;
Two of the coyotes I knew[one had a squirrel treed over a hill from me] or seen that were "hunting". Were called in the "closest" to me. I've tried calling some that were balled-up, after I stalked in. They either walked away, ran away. Or loped on by, from way out there looking my way.

Most of them are bedded. Pre-Sunrise, until around 10-11am before they'll bed down for the day. Rarely any movers after 12:00 noon.

The ones that are bedded, I don't believe are all that hungry. If they were, wouldn't they still be hunting. Hunger, is a powerfull force to overcome.

If hunger is not the driving factor in calling a coyote towards you. Then you are playing hit & miss, as to what makes them interested. IE: Territorial, curious, seeking a mate, ect.

[ January 28, 2007, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 28, 2007, 06:55 AM:

2 dogs,

You have a pretty good understanding of your coyotes.

The buddy system would work wonders in your situation.

~SH~

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 28, 2007, 09:19 AM:

2dogs,
I have about 4-5 spots that sounds like most of your hunting area. heavy pressure from all the ranchers, greyhound guys and goverment ADC shotgunner's from planes and helicoppter's....
These places have one brushy draw and are mile squares..
I only go to these spots when I can have someone drop me off and then drive on. Usually my brothers old rattle trap diesel...you can hear it coming for miles....
I sneak in and setup.
The coyotes thinks the danger has gone will tend to respond better.
Regards
Kelly

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 28, 2007, 11:34 AM:

Kelly,

Bro & I have done the same thing. Works pretty well. Bro is a pretty fair shot[much better with a revolver]. But try's to hard on the coyotes. I always bust a gut, when he's my wingman.

I learned that manuver years ago. By myself, spotted one laying a tad over a 1/4 mile. He was eyeing me as I drove by slowly. I underestimated this one. I slowed down, shut the ignition off.

Coasted down hill a couple hundred yrds farther away. Et slowly/quietly stopped behind the 1st high road bank. I waited 10 minutes or so. To put him @ ease. Quietly got out, et slinked up the ditch & into the field. Next, I see the coyote around 1/2 mile away. Looking my way over it's shoulder. I do believe he had his tongue sticking out @ me [Big Grin]

.

I haven't tried that since.

[ January 28, 2007, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 28, 2007, 11:36 AM:

Moral of the story;

Coyote didn't see my truck pass on by the high bank. Coyote, figured something bad was coming, gone.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 28, 2007, 12:53 PM:

"Coyote didn't see my truck pass on by the high bank. Coyote, figured something bad was coming, gone."
-----------------
Keep on talkin' 2dogs, you almost got me believen' ya. [Smile]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 28, 2007, 03:51 PM:

Rich C.,

Most coyotes, as long as I don't "stop" or slow down abruply. Will follow my truck for quite aways. I'll generally go "atleast" another 1/4 mile on past the coyote. Sometimes farther while watching them, to see if they raise their head or move.

They no doubt are very cautious of vehicles. But drop their guard around farm tractors. That dusky Black coyote, I posted a pic of. My Bro & I are holding.

Seen him, following a tractor in a hayfield moving bales 5/8 mile out. Coyote was hunting, et very close behind the tractor.

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 28, 2007, 05:05 PM:

Simple solution 2dogs, .......time to invest in a tractor! Take it one step further, invest in a tractor that has a cab and heater [Big Grin]

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on January 28, 2007, 05:14 PM:

The main problem in my situation. Is my inabilities.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 28, 2007, 05:20 PM:

2dogs,
I know that coyotes hear my truck slow down and stop on the rock roads, so I have no doubt that they will be wary of that sound. I just doubt that they have enough brains to watch to see if your truck came out on the other side of the cut. I think your coyote in that scenario simply heard your truck stop. Just my opinion. [Smile]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 28, 2007, 05:22 PM:

TRnCO,
I think that I will record the sound of a tractor pulling a plow or something. I could play it loudly as I drive through the fields toward my calling stands. [Smile]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2007, 05:27 PM:

When we have a coyote sitting or laying down and watches the vehicle, we send in a shooter from the oppisite direction.
On one occasion we had a coyote laying on a hillside in some corn stalks. We sent in a shooter from down wind into the corn stubble, while the shooter was walking towards the coyote i kept an eye on the coyote and the coyote did the same to me. The shooter had his radio turned off and he walked past the coyote and the coyote just laid there. The shooter got to the end of the field and turned on his radio and asked where was the coyote, I told him that he missed the coyote by 50-75 yards and walked past him.. The shooter heads back into the field and this time has his radio on, when he was straight west of the coyote i stopped him and told him to look straight east and out 50 yards or so.. The shooter could not see it so he started walking east and finaly jumped the coyote and got him on the second shot... That was one cool custumer..

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 28, 2007, 05:32 PM:

Man, what an idea Rich!! You could even go as far as hooking it up to your horn button, and then while your driving in, just push the horn button and your truck sound all of a sudden is a tractor!! Of course, don't forget to unhook the horn! [Cool]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 28, 2007, 05:44 PM:

TRnCO,
Unhook my horn and connect the horn button to recording of a loud tractor? Now THAT would work on coyotes, and double as a warning blast for city driving as well. I might just do that.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 28, 2007, 06:50 PM:

I believe that coyote did hear me stop, Rich C. But they also have heard & seen me stop farther down the road. Et went from alert to stand down.

So I'm convinced on "that coyote" anyway.

That it reacted that I stopped close by. Two cues;
1. Coyote didn't see my truck pass the hill.
2. Coyote heard me stop.

Dodge make tractors? [Big Grin]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 29, 2007, 03:52 AM:

Camo;

I've worn all White, including my rifle being taped or sprayed White. I've had coyotes pick me out prone on the snow, crawling & while motionless.

One guy suggested my "Whites" were not the same White hue, as the snow. That is correct. Due to washing with detergent.

However, The snow in my hunt area is often shaded by picked crops, Sun angle, wind blown dirt, ect.

I believe, they see the movement [my White on the snow's White]. As well as the off colored motionlesss mass of, off White on the snow.

I've crawled to the top of my hill, on sleeping coyotes across the valley. Also past the top of my hill[not skylined].

I've had some slowly raise their head & pan around. Some of these coyotes stopped panning. Only to focus hard on my white mass, from afar. I know these coyotes, didn't hear me. So I concluded, they seen my mass. That caused them some alarm.

I can make out my White camo'd Bro, over 1/2 mile away on a snow covered background. Even when he's motionless. Why couldn't a coyote. I say they can.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 29, 2007, 04:08 AM:

Further;

Right after a coyote beds down. They'll pan around mostly 180 degrees, sometimes 360. They'll do this for quite awhile. Before laying their head down & tucking it into their tail area.

I believe, not only they are looking for any threats, food, ect. But are taking in a mental image of everything around them.

Some coyotes will repeatidly lay in the same focal area. I believe not only do they feel safety in these "repeated areas". But also know the lay of the land & can detect. A new foreign object in the area.

"Nomads" will do this also, when tresspassing. But rarely sleep very long or heavy, often panning for threats.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 29, 2007, 08:24 AM:

Rich, I don`t believe a coyote has the ability to reason but I will say that I`ve experienced what 2dogs mentioned about the truck stopping behind a hill. We overcame the problem by slowing enough for someone to bail out & start walking to a good calling location while the truck went on to another short calling stand in another area, nowadays I just don`t mess with that sort of thing at all, getting old & time is somewhat of a precious commodity.

Back to Scotts original post, all of those things overlap each other in some way or other & most of them could be broken down into several different sub-catagories which, when you think about it, makes it somewhat of a science that the average recreational caller may never really understand in depth, but that wont stop me from trying.

Scott, one thing that I`ve been paying attention to in recent years, that has been discussed here & there on these boards is moon phase, I have no scientific proof but in the short while that I`ve payed atten. it seems as though it has a huge effect on calling success, not just at night but especially in the daytime. With the exception of calling under a full moon at night on snow WITHOUT a light, I`ve found that my #s go down during a full moon, for reasons that I feel are obvious. I`ve even noticed on the boards that when folks are complaining about lack of calling success that SOMETIMES it coincides with a full moon.

I`m sure this is elementary stuff to those of you who have been calling for 30 years but I imagine there are a bunch of recreational callers who could benifit from discussing a few of these variables, myself included, I`ve been calling for roughly 20 years, recreational calling of course, & I would like to discuss in depth some of these variables, it never hurts to discover what you think you already know.

If we could keep the thread on track, it would be a great benefit to hear what the old pro`s have to say about some of these variables & how they use them to their advantage.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 29, 2007, 08:41 AM:

Reasoning;
I have no doubts a coyote can't/doesn't do that. Some say "learned behavior" Samo...samo IMB.

A coyote "reasons", a possible threat when a vehicle slows or stops. Same coyote, chases a rabbit into a brushpile. Coyote circles that brushpile[reasoning the rabbit may bolt out of the other side]. Or he/she may be able to reach in & grab the rabbit.

Coyote being pursued "close" by hounds[their on his rump]; coyote will jump a fence rather than go through. Reasoning; It's quicker. Same coyote non-pursued, slowly go's through or under a fence. Reasoning; non-threatened.

Domestic dogs, can reason. Why not coyotes.

In our group of sighthounds. Their was one dog specifically. If he seen a Jackrabbit start to loop wide. He'd break from the pack, et cut the rabbit's angle.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 29, 2007, 10:03 AM:

I don't know that a coyote can actually "reason", but I do know that they are very quick to learn certain danger signal's. I have seen coyotes hang up back in the brush and stare at the clump of grass where my E caller was hidden. If coyote didn't see anything there, or smell anything there, he wouldn't come closer. For this reason, I have been toying with the idea of toting a decoy out into the field with me. Maybe giving the coyote something interesting to look at would cause him to show himself?

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 29, 2007, 01:22 PM:

I know very little of the coyote. Thats what keeps me going back for more [Cool]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 29, 2007, 02:23 PM:

I don't know much about coyotes either, but I huffed a hole in the ground that smelled of canine pee. Probably a coyote den don't ya think? [Smile]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 29, 2007, 02:51 PM:

I would'nt know. My ole huffer is burn't out, LOL!

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 30, 2007, 07:45 AM:

JD,

I've always been curious about "moon phase" and it's affect on coyote response but I do not know for sure how much affect it has.

I don't doubt your theory and in fact I believe it has merit, I just haven't proven it to myself one way or another because I haven't kept track of it. I probably should have.

~SH~

Posted by Nahuatl (Member # 708) on January 30, 2007, 07:51 AM:

Rich, in more open country, the coyotes here lock onto the spinning wing on the stupid woodpecker decoy like a missile and pay no attention to me and my shotgun. They come in with attitude. Take lots of batteries. I get three stands from a AA.

Add four things that contribute to success. Good, well-maintained equipment. Practiced marksmanship and the ability to take advantage of a good situation. More time in the field. Confidence in your method.

Two days ago, cold-calling new ground, I saw three spinning around on a hill way out looking for the rabbit and suckered one in with some puppy noises. After the shot, I ki-yi'd, and NINE heads popped up out of the weeds about 200 yards out. There were probably more. I worked the area the rest of the afternoon and finished with 5.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 30, 2007, 01:38 PM:

Nahuatl,
I just may have to try one of those stupid whirling woodpeckers. [Cool]

Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 30, 2007, 02:05 PM:

Rich when you where down in lincoln, you should have picked up a side winder? I have one, yet to try it out in the field but I'm betting in some situations it's going to bring in a few extra coyotes than not having the decoy. I also will use it next year in trying for a MT Lion. I'm going to make a light weight fawn decoy and get a deer tail to put on the end of the rod.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 30, 2007, 02:55 PM:

Thanks for making that post coyote whacker. You just reminded me of a battery operated decoy I have around here that was designed for use with a Loudmouth caller. I will dig it out and see if it will work with my Bandit. [Cool]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 30, 2007, 03:43 PM:

Scott, I`m the same way, I don`t really keep track except for my memory which the older I get the more I realize what a poor way that is to keep track of things [Smile]

Earlier I said it had a "huge" effect, I guess what I should have said was it had a noticable effect.

What about some of you guys who keep detailed records....any thoughts on moon phase?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 30, 2007, 04:49 PM:

I don't have detailed records of anything but I still have an opinion.....and I think a new moon seems to be best, for hunting coyotes.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 30, 2007, 09:23 PM:

Leonard, are you talking about daytime hunting or night or both?

I guess I never payed enough attention to the new moon but it seems to me that a full moon makes for less successful daytime hunting, not necsasarily terrible just noticably less successful. I suppose that fits with what your saying. I`ve got ideas as to why that might be but without records I guess it`s just speculation. I gotta start keeping track of that sort of stuff.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 30, 2007, 09:43 PM:

Well Jason,

I started hunting coyotes seriously in about 1968. It truly does take a lifetime to be sure of anything, and I'm not quite finished with my evaluation?

I do feel that there are a number of conditions that affect hunting in general and predator hunting in particular. Things like weather, gravitional pull of the moon and tide, seasonal changes, change in the length of the day, drought, atmospheric conditions, such as especially high and especially low pressure. And, of course man made conditions, agriculture, urban sprawl and cowboy pickups.

The reason why night hunting is so much better under a new moon is because the animal can't see your movements, and it is a considerable advantage. Are there actually more animals active during a new moon? Who can say? But, it is like when the fish aren't biting. They are still down there, but they are not in the mood. This is a real and well known dynamic and I do not see why we cannot apply it to coyotes as a working theory? Some days are better than others. Go hunting when you can but I seem to have better "luck" when the conditions are favorable.

And, moon phase is one of those conditions that should be taken into account.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:58 AM:

Well, I do understand Dennis's point & the flip side to this discussion, as well.

It boils down to the coyote has to be in the "mood" to respond. Regardless, of hunt or other external pressure's.

A couple of Winter's ago, daylight. I spotted a large coyote hunting open rolling hills. Hard packed snow on the ground. This coyote was working North bound, neandering across a hard quartering NorWest wind.

WC was around -28F. I was all White[head to ankle], including rifle, shooting sticks, & hands. I went to the North end of the section[hayfield/pasture]. I was stright North of the coyote. I walked through the farmyard, past the last cattle lot.

Plopped down on a flat area right by a fencepost, facing South. A tad over 1/4 mile North of the coyote. I commenced to squalling with Pee-Wee or Tally-Ho?.
Around 10 minutes later, I see a head peeking @ me from afar, in a draw out front 300yrds or so.

I went to soft/short squalls. Coyote advanced slowly, panning 180. Coyote would advance in little segments, then stop, still panning.

I went to lip-squeeks. Coyote kept advancing. Stopped a tad over 100yrds. By then I was colder than a penquins ying/yang on a block of ice. Took the shot, missed [Roll Eyes]

.

I've shot @ this same coyote, on two other occasions, not long before this last one. Coyote still, came to check out my noise.

That coyote no doubt was mighty hungry. Et, hunger dropped it's guard.

Posted by albert (Member # 98) on January 31, 2007, 07:31 AM:

The most significant factor in calling succes in my opinion is determination. It is what drives everything else.

What success is will differ from place to place and person to person.

In the end it takes alot of determination to become consistantly successful.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 31, 2007, 07:40 AM:

I agree with you Leonard.I seem to have better luck when theres a new moon phase.Unless I have cabin fever real bad or if I'm calling around here locally,I try to plan my road trips to our more productive areas around the new moon.I don't keep records either but I have seen a noticeable increase in the number of coyotes we've called/killed when we've done this.Is the increase totally due to moon phase,I really can't say but it seems we have more success than when calling during the full moon or quarter phase,this is mostly day calling I am talking about.Good Hunting Chad

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 31, 2007, 08:45 AM:

2dogs, Dennis hasn`t posted on this topic, I think you`re talking about the wrong thread. [Smile]

Also, how can you be absolutely positive that the coyote you saw that day was the same one you shot at before?

Leonard & Chad, My theory about moon phase is somewhat simplistic, I "think" during a full moon that coyotes are more active at night, maybe due to the ability to see better & nobody or vehicles to worry about, who knows but if "more" coyotes are out all night it would make some sense that they would`nt be out much during the day, just like you or I if we stayed out all night. Or maybe their night time hunting is more successful & they don`t need to hunt much during the day.

I can see where hunting from a rig at night would be quite a bit tougher under a full moon but on the other hand hunting on a blanket of snow under a full moon "without" a light can be somewhat productive.

I guess my theory is simple & unrefined but I really do believe it all boils down to their ability to see at night.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 31, 2007, 09:52 AM:

quote:
somewhat simplistic-JD

Well, I wouldn't go so far, but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that predators are fully capable of any activity, while hunting in the dark, without benefit of moonlight. Hunting during first and third quarter, the moon is up and the moon is down during a single night. Of this, I am confident; I kill more coyote before the moon rises and after it sets. I promise you, coyotes do not stumble around in the dark, after the moon sets.

But, for sure, they are harder to kill while the moon is up because they can easily see silhouette from an elevated position..... when the light is not pointed directly at them.

I see no practical way of deciding that these nocturnal animals depend on moonlight to successfully hunt at night. I believe they adapt to conditions, and are not more active because of a single factor such as moonlight, or the absence of moonlight.

That may appear to contradict my opinion concerning the success or failure of hunting during a new moon phase, but I think the question is far more complicated than that; in short, not at all "somewhat simplistic".

Good hunting. LB

[ January 31, 2007, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 10:58 AM:

JD,

Rather simple, I recognize them.
If the same guy walked up to you 3X in one Winter. Et, thumped you upside the head. I bet you would recognize him. On the 4th visit.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 11:00 AM:

I also bet Dennis, is following this thread [Big Grin]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 31, 2007, 12:31 PM:

"Rather simple, I recognize them."
--------------------------------
Back in the 1960,s when I was a welder for Sperry Vickers, I saw this great big turd in one of the toilets. Now this thing was so big that it couldn't make it around the sharp bend of the trap when you tried to flush it. Dang thing just floated around in there like a large drowned rat. It kind of shocked me at first because I thought it was my foreman in there. I recognized him by the expression. [Smile]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 31, 2007, 01:28 PM:

Dennis, are you going to take this sitting down? Or, as I suspect, someone has stolen your password? [Smile]

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 31, 2007, 04:47 PM:

I'm just thinking out loud here, BUT has anyone else noticed that there are periods that rabbits are more active at night? For instance, and I have never documented this, or any of my hunts, but there are times when we are driving out dark thirty to go calling and there seems to be rabbits all over the road. Then there are times that you don't hardly see a rabbit, even while walking through the calling areas! Could there be a corrilation between calling success and the coyotes prey night time activity? Are rabbits more or less active at night with moon phases? Maybe it's the prey activity that determines how successful the coyotes are at night time hunting, not wether they can or can't see better during any particular moon phase!

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 31, 2007, 04:50 PM:

Leonard, I don`t think what you said contradicts your earlier statements at all, I also know that in reality it really is quite a complicated subject to try & grasp in depth I was just relating that at this point my understanding of it & theories concerning it are simplish in nature. I enjoy hunting at night but we can`t do it from a vehicle & it typically requires way more effort to haul everything with you to a stand in the darkeness than I`m willing put forth on any consistant basis, I would sure own a night rig if it were legal here.

2dogs, you`re a better man than I at recognizing coyotes. I have a honey hole where I`ve called dozens upon dozens of coyotes over the past several years & I can tell you ALMOST exactly how the scene will play out before I start calling, I`ve shot coyote after coyote after coyote standing in the same place (within a few feet) year after year & every one of them played out like some sort of epic scene or maybe a clip from the movie "groundhog day" & everyone of those coyotes, through the scope, looked just like the one I shot a week earlier standing in that same place looking the same direction quartering towards me slightly uphill looking down & to their right over the knoll where my caller sets, the only way I could tell any difference is when their laying side by side on a skinning bench but never a week apart standing 100yds away.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 31, 2007, 04:55 PM:

TRnCO, That may be, the more I think about what Leonard said concerning coyotes being able to see in the dark, which is true, the more I have to think that there are other things happening, I do think moon phase has an effect for sure but it would be cool to actually know why, any rabbit huffers out there( sorry 2dogs I just couldn`t resist) [Smile]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:11 PM:

pics for JD, soon to follow. No inbred coyotes in my area. They have different Ma's & Pa's LOL!.

When your done viewing JD. Tell me which look alike [Wink]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:39 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:40 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:41 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:43 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:45 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:47 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:48 PM:

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 05:59 PM:

.

No two snowflakes alike, around here.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 06:03 PM:

This helps me identify from afar.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 31, 2007, 06:25 PM:

I throw our dog's ball out in the yard @ night. She see's quite well in darkness. She runs all out et fetch's her ball, right away.

I never thought coyotes couldn't see @ night, as well.

If coyotes can't, or not see well in darkness. Why do they hunt & run in darkness. You'd think they would have knots all over their head, & die from dain brammage, Hmmmmm LOL!

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 31, 2007, 08:17 PM:

Jesus 2dogs!! You must have some care free coyotes there, around here I never have time to take pictures & compare to previous kills while I`m on a stand. I usually just look for front & center & stroke the trigger, just goes to show how much regional differences effect a calling stand. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 31, 2007, 08:27 PM:

A coyote is pretty much like a bird dog, at night if its really dark they also rely on there hearing, and there nose to find food. The long hairs on there muzzle keeps them from bumping there heads at night also...

[ January 31, 2007, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on March 17, 2007, 02:52 PM:

One of the best topics that I have read about. Thanks Wiley.

Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on March 17, 2007, 03:13 PM:

Scott,

I don't know how I missed this topic, well said. very good discription and damn good information.
[Cool]

sly

Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on March 21, 2007, 04:38 PM:

Scotty on points 1-11 an area? How big how small,man a ton of variables that will make most of the data useless. An area worked by an ADC guy for 12 months or a novice caller in fur season?

Moon phase, calling wise I see during the last quater to new moon and first quater a big jump in coyote activity in first light and last light. Complaints, I get more complaints about coyotes in the Jan. Apr. timeframe during low moonlight. Is it because the coyotes are moving more in the first two hours of sun light and the last and people see them more, you bet! During full moons or close to, I am calling to more coyotes in the bedding areas at first light vs. still out hunting, just makes sense. Extreme weather can and does effect this.Also during full moon the coyotes here tend to be more active and respond better mid morning into early afternoon. I believe sleep patterns change during this time so feeding, hunger changes with it.

Scott remember the aerial hunting stats we took during moon phases and how low moon light conditions greatly improved the numbers?The coyotes were more easily found ,out still moving vs. tucked in the bedding areas and hard to find.

If it was easy what would be the challenge, it changes all the time,one important point I think you should have put is was the person himself in the area. If he has good hunting instincts, is able to absorb what he sees from positive and negative reactions, has an enourmous amount of land to hunt in, excellent marksmanship,quality equipment, physically able, and is able to be out in the field in coyotes all year round he will kill coyotes consistantly. A shortage of any one of these will put him behind the eight ball at some point and time. Hunting instincts being the most important to me anyway if on an even playing field, I mean physically equal etc. The constant to make all data applicable starts at hunter and that in itself is going to flaw much of the info.

We have all seen people try to buy into the sport with dreams of taking 100's of coyotes and fallin by the wayside. We also know a HUNTER who consistantly kills coyotes all the time.

It's not as complicated as some will lead you to believe nor is it as easy as others say, but for those who read these posts and are afriad to post because it may come under attack remember, nothing ventured nothing gained!

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 23, 2007, 08:01 AM:

Randy,

I don't know if you misunderstood my post or are helping me to make my point.

The intent of my post is for people to consider all the variables that lead to success or failure when comparing one person to another or when comparing one area to another. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for adding to those variables.

My motive? Too often we see shallow comparisons made simply based on numbers without considering the variables that would add to those numbers.

As an example, you and I have had numbers to work with but my point is that Rod's numbers are no less impressive when you consider the variables he's faced with. Currently, my coyote numbers and complaint numbers have never been lower. I'd say population is 30% of pre mange levels. Those damn LOCAL coyote calling contests I used to participate in are going to be the RUINATION OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT. Haha!

DON'T DRINK AND TYPE! LOL!

Words of experience.

~SH~

[ March 23, 2007, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]

Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on March 23, 2007, 08:28 AM:

Scott,

LMAO.....

quote:
DON'T DRINK AND TYPE! LOL!

....LOL.....

Hell I have a hard time typing sober, You got me thinking what kind of debate would we have if I drank and typed

thats good

sly

Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 23, 2007, 09:50 AM:

Keep laughing and we'll get along just fine. If you can't find the humor in yourself then you'll have a long road.

Hell a friend of mine looked at the badger I was carrying under my shirt the other day and asked me, "what the hell, you runnin' for sheriff?" LOL! Now I could have taken offense but I am a fat SOB so why hide it and I thought that remark was funny as hell.

~SH~

[ March 23, 2007, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]

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