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Author
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Topic: How do you rank howling
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 22, 2007 08:43 PM
and why?
Wondering how important it is to you this time of year. Which howl do you use and do you use it alone or go into distress after a few minutes.
Wondering if location makes more of a difference, around here coyotes howl at daylight or dark, sometimes. Don't recall hearing too many during the day.
And I've seen howls work before the set and after the set. Just not often enough to figure a pattern. Or do you just howl?
As usual I just don't know how to ask the right questions but I'd appreciate your input on howling if you don't mind.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 23, 2007 03:47 AM
TOM64,
Howling is not a cure all, but is certainly a tool that I would not leave behind when calling coyotes. Howling works all year around, but I believe that there are two time periods where howling becomes crucial. Right now is one of those times. Why? Because coyotes are very interested in sex right now, what with breeding season being so close and all. The sound of a strange coyote in the area causes territorial reaction. The howl I use the most is what I call a "lonesome" howl. This sound tells resident coyotes that there is a stranger in their territory, and the dominant coyotes will come over to run the stranger off. By using the non agressive "Lonesome" howl, I feel that I am less likely to scare off the younger and less dominent coyotes. I howl once, twice, maybe three times and then wait in silence for awhile. Coyotes around here don't often howl in daytime, but they approach silently.
After the pups are born in the spring, Mom and Pop coyote become very protective of their young. This is the other time of year when howling becomes a crucial tool. Locating den area's and setting up near those dens with a howler is downright deadly. I do mix in a prey distress sound, but it ain't a rabbit. Why? Too many coyotes have heard people blow that tune too many times already.
[ January 23, 2007, 03:54 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 23, 2007 11:11 AM
I saw the question and didn't know how to respond, but I see that Mr Cronk has covered it nicely. Main thing is, a proper howl is hardly ever a negative. Using an agressive howl is good if you know when and how to use it, but for most of us, a non agressive lone howl or lost pup howl will attract more coyotes than a distress sound, alone. However, it usually means a slower approach, all things being equal....except denning season.
A topic I would like to see kicked around one day is exactly what a coyote is "thinking" when he hears a rabbit distress or a coyote howl.
A lot of people think the coyotes are wise and know that it's a human honking on a critter call, but I don't think they are capable of this deduction. I think they assume that a human is torturing a rabbit and they have been threatened before and know better than to approach the stand. (PS it is not called a "set") So, they seem to be suspicious of the various "rabbit blues" in areas of high pressure, and those "places" where hunters are not very good shots. (you know who you are)
But, a coyote has not figured out an association between a howl and a human. I believe they have a degree of confidence, if not safety, in knowing that another "animal" has voiced a howl. They might be wary of an encounter with a strange coyote and approach the area in a scouting mode, rather than a headlong dash at an injured animal.
No, I put a howl in the same catagory as a confidence decoy, on a duck pond. Or even a couple ravens in a tree, a coyote knows that those ravens woul fly off if a human was near by, so he is a little less cautious in his approach. I think it is a similiar dynamic working when you use a howl on a stand. The coyote knows that he may have to deal with an interloper, but at least he feels that the sound also announces that the "coast is clear" insofar as human involvement.
That's the secret, they have not figured it out, and I doubt they ever will. A coyote doesn't know that a human is capable of (passibly) imitating his language. But you guys need to clean up your act and not poison the whole damn county with your Cronk Howler, like you are doing with that Foxpro.....you know who you are!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 23, 2007 01:53 PM
Leonard mentioned the non agressive howl as maybe being a "confidence" call. I agree with him. Many years ago, I was starting all of my stands with a prey distress sound of some sort. If nothing came in after 15 minutes or so, I would howl a couple of times. My thoughts were that the howls would act sort of like urine at a trap set. Any coyotes that heard my prey distress screams and hung up out of sight because they thought something was wrong, may just gain the confidence to come on in after they heard another coyote over there. That is exactly how I called my first two coyotes with the howls. The pair of coyotes had evidently hung up back in the brush, but when they heard the howl, they came in at full bore. And now you have it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 23, 2007 06:11 PM
Thank you both for your responses and I apoligise for not being able to convey my thoughts or questions any better.
I have Rich's instruction CD and a few DVD's on howling as well as reading anything I can find on howling. Yet I'm still wondering if there's something I am missing. So I ask questions and reread the answers, sometimes it helps as it did here.
I have never thought of howling as a confidence call but in the latest situation that brought on this question, it fits.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 04, 2007 05:14 PM
Tom64,
The Boys hit it on the head and gave you good info. I would add only this, learn to identify coyote vocalization when its spoke to you. Sometimes variations of the same vocalizations mean totaly diferent things....IE.
A threat bark from a coyote down wind or a threat bark from a coyote directly up wind. Yes they are both threat barking but the reason or meaning behind it is not the same and your responce to it should not be the same either.
For me 20 some years ago, when we didn't have this welth of info at our fingertips, the learning curve was slower and I learned from failure more than from success. The few who knew weren't talking and there were no how to DVD's or video to help figure out what I was doing right or wrong.
I almost envy the new predator hunter, with the welth of info and the top callers who are willing to shair their hunting savvy and years of practical expieriance.
Bottom line the more you use the howler the more you will understand it and how much it adds to your arsonal of tools.
I use the howler at almost every stand and I find myself using less distress sounds from about the last week of Jan. through to mid summer. With the femail chirp or estrous chirp as Ronnie calls it, I have found a new way of taunting those dogs into range and in conjunction with the howling it is proving to be leathal.
Good luck with this and in reguards to howling the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
Sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 04, 2007 08:24 PM
Thank you Sly!
I know that you have hunted okieland a time or two, does howling work as well here as it does out west?
Always wonder if it's location or presentation.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted February 04, 2007 10:13 PM
Tom64,
I don't think there is a place howling won't work, if given the right time and place and the fact that there are coyotes there. I think the SW states have a higher coyote population and therefore the compitation for food is greater. I think that you will get a quicker responce to the distress sounds but I know they will respond to the howler. Last year I got hung up on the FOXPRO and it changed the way I hunted. This year I have used prodomanantly hand calls and mainly the howler once again. Sure feels good to be back to the old me again. Its easy to get lazy, if you will, and let that thing do the work but using them in conjunction will up your take.
I have been using the "CHIRP" along with female demand(female invitation) I think its misnamed, she ain't inviting, she's demanding services and along with the chirp it realy gets them old dogs goin but you have to be paitent this time of year. Everything is changing, headed into the rut or breeding season. Feeding habbits change, territorial boundries change, they get smaller and they defend them more fiercely and responce time and levels change.
This is the time to use that howler but you have to hunt them differently. Try to determin their territorial boundrys and move as close to the boundry as you can get, without bumping them. Then set up and go through your sequence.
Give them plenty of time to respond, be paitent, They may not say a word but don't let your guard down because they will come. I also think that people call to much and to often this time of year. I find that no matter where I'm huntin this time of year they just come in more on the defencive. Like Ronnie says: make'um pay for the wind. I use a mounted decoy and have had the same one for many years. Its had 3 legs broke off from fights (kinda one sided fights)and he's on his 3rd tail but he's been the best huntin pard I have ever had and has acounted for more coyotes than I can count. When you add this all up and think about it, I'm givin them a visual and a sound that says coyote. 7 out of 10 will go straight to the offencive and forget the defence... A pissed off coyote don't think he just reacts to what his sences are telling him. He see's a stranger and hear's a stranger this triggers him to defend his territory without thinking. If he don't think he won't go on the defencive and circle for the wind. most of the time they get that posture or (puffed up look) and come to run off the intruder. With the crack of the gun the fun is over and the work begins.
This time of year in this country you better get comfortable 1 1/2 hour stands are common. I would rather make 2 or 3 quality stands than 12 quickie stands in a day. Another thing after you shoot one don't give up your location, sit tight and talk to them a little more. they seldom run alone this time of year and often if you sit there for another 30 min you will call in more.
Well my finger is gittin a blister...lol
Smote the Yote
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted February 05, 2007 07:50 AM
There is two important reasons to howl assuming that howl sounds realistic to a coyote and not like someone attempting to sound like a coyote.
The first reason is to locate coyotes.
The second reason is to sell them the idea that there is a coyote present which becomes a confidence builder.
How do you you know if your howl sounds realistic? If you consistantly get coyotes to respond to JUST HOWLS vocally or by their approach.
When coyotes respond to you, it allows you to set your stands up with the wind, geography, and sunlight in your favor.
The details of coyote vocalizations are highly overrated. If you understand coyotes, you know that no two coyotes sound the same to eachother let alone two callers blowing a commercial howler. A Johnny Stewart doesn't sound like a cow horn doesn't sound like a Austin howler doesn't sound like a power howler doesn't sound like a voice howl doesn't sound like a diapragm howler TO ME LET ALONE A COYOTE.
Don't overanalyze howling, just sell them the idea that there is a coyote there.
As Rich said, it works year round.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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canine
Knows what it's all about
Member # 687
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posted February 07, 2007 08:04 PM
Howling is my edge over the competition this time of year. Pretty much anyone else calling locally is still using e-callers and dying critter sounds. Howling, for me has been producing quite effectivley, lately.
JD
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Hunting The East "back to Basic's" Part 1
Posts: 162 | From: ohio | Registered: Jul 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 08, 2007 12:25 AM
Howling has been a great TOOL for calling coyotes for me.I have been using howls to call coyotes since I started calling 20 years ago.I have used a number of different howlers over the years some have worked better than others.
For me it's hard to RANK where howling fits in to my calling.I've had some days especially in the early part of the season I could have just as well left my howler home,because most if not all the coyotes I called had been with a standard wabbit distress call.Other days it seems like a combination of howls with distress calls is the ticket.Then again I've had very productive days when all I've used is my howler.
I think Wiley hit the nail on the head,when he said the important thing is to first be able to locate the coyotes you want to call,then second sell the idea that there is another coyote in the area.
So I definitely feel howling is very important to my overall success as a caller.
Good Hunting Chad
[ February 08, 2007, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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