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Author
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Topic: Looking Around
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albert
Knows what it's all about
Member # 98
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posted January 05, 2007 08:11 AM
A recent post has made me start to wonder how many people sit absolutly still on a stand? I feel this is a big mistake. If you see the coyote before he sees you your chances of killing it have increased substantially.
Anyhow I feel that it is important to look around when you are calling, that seeing the coyote first is more important than remaining "still".
Comments
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for what it's worth, eh!
Posts: 195 | From: Parkland, saskatchewan, canada | Registered: Feb 2003
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Dusty Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1031
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posted January 05, 2007 08:42 AM
Albert, I'm certainly not the brightest duck on this website, but I sit as still as I can. When I move my head, I move it very slowly. I scan back and forth with my eyes before I move my head.If I have to move my arm, I move it very slowly. There's possibly a coyote out there looking at me from behind a bush that I just can't see. When I see a coyote approaching, I try to
wait until he goes behind an object before I move my rifle into position. Since you're a long time member here, I can't believe any of this is new to you. If you haven't already read Gerry Blair's book called "Predator Calling" used books are available through amazon.com. If anyone is interested in a new book, I located a source for them. I don't know how many they have left. Gerry Blair's writing is an adventure in reading. Lots of information in a pleasurable format. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ January 05, 2007, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Dusty Hunter ]
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 05, 2007 08:57 AM
Well, I tend to agree with Albert. Moving your head, as long as you are well camouflaged, and you are using a remote caller, is almost risk free, and has a lot of benefits, versus "tunnel vision".
By the way, you guys that missed the Huntmasters campout also missed an opportunity to chat with Gerry; like Bill Rice, shown here.
Good hunting. LB
edit: PS, Albert, email me your home address, I lost it.
[ January 05, 2007, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32367 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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albert
Knows what it's all about
Member # 98
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posted January 05, 2007 09:12 AM
I guess I feel moving your head slowly is a big mistake. I like to cover my field of view (270+ degrees)at least once every 30 seconds.
You don't have to move your arms and rifle to look around. I agree once you spot the coyote you want to remain still as possible, but you still should be looking around for the second one that will sneak in on you.
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for what it's worth, eh!
Posts: 195 | From: Parkland, saskatchewan, canada | Registered: Feb 2003
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Dusty Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1031
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posted January 05, 2007 09:16 AM
Here's a story with lots of unintentional movement and I still got the coyote: I was hunting near a huge ravine on a high mesa. I walked in with the wind in my face and found a ridge to conceal myself by a juniper. I set the call out at a good distance away from me and began calling. About 10 minutes later, the batteries go dead. So I sit there another 10 minutes, or so. I slowly go out to retrieve my caller. Then I start to walk back past the stand. When I get near the top of the ridge, I see a coyote walking the flat behind the location I was calling from! I sit down, dig my heals into the dirt, lip squeaked to him. He stopped just long enough for me to take the shot. I guess the elevated stand contributed to him not spotting me as I was moving around so much. Interesting situation and one of the things I like about this sport so much.
[ January 05, 2007, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Dusty Hunter ]
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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Dusty Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1031
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posted January 05, 2007 09:32 AM
Albert, You must have been putting in your post while I was writing my story. Thanks for clarifying. I'm going to incorporate your method in my hunting. Thanks.
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 05, 2007 10:19 AM
I think a coyote is expecting to see a little movement so as long as your body shape is broken up and you move your head slowly. I had 2 come in behind me a couple of weeks ago, I was moving quite a bit looking way out in the pasture expecting something to circle downwind. When I called the stand off I eased around to get up and looked behind me directly into the sun. There they were about 150 yards away trying to figure out what I was. Too much movement ain't good but sitting like a statue moving only your eyes is counterproductive. Cows prevented a shot so I had plenty of time to learn from them and was surprised at how much I got away with.
We set up again New Years day and killed them both. I remembered Rich Higgins saying he never learned nothing from a dead coyote, very true.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
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posted January 05, 2007 10:23 AM
Right or wrong I don't know, but I try to keep still as possible.
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The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 05, 2007 10:36 AM
You sound like a Democrat, Trip? No right or wrong, whatever works for you is what we are interested in.
I also keep as still as possible, BUT I move my head slowly and try to cover as much of the area as possible without twisting my body.
There is one situation where a coyote, or more likely, a cat can pick up on head movements. When the animal, and the decoy/caller is in a straight line with your position, beyond the caller and he can/might see you while looking directly at the caller.
Sorry for calling you disagreeable names. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32367 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 05, 2007 10:48 AM
I think I am with Dusty Hunter on this one. If you don't turn your head and look, then you are bound to lose some coyotes. If you can't see em, you can't shoot em.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 05, 2007 11:17 AM
You had better be danged good at reading cover if you plan on killing many coyotes from the one spot you're looking at when you lay into that call. I will note that the story above used an e-caller. That, by itself, gives you an advantage over the guy using the wind driven models that goes to flopping his arms with each huff through that call and who himself represents the source of the sound, versus the source being thirty yards away.
I position myself so the cover I'm calling to is centered in front of me. I try to make sure I have a lot of backing to break up my outline, even to the extent this year that I find myself seeking out low ground looking up versus high ground looking down more and more. I check the view before me to ID anything that might be mistaken for a coyote once I begin, then I start. As stated, I move my eyes a lot but I try to cover the entire view every 30-45 seconds if not even more quickly. It's astonishing how a coyote can pop up out of thin air and be on top of you before you can even react.
I do wish to add and ask one thing though. It has been my experience that coyotes responding to howls are almost easier to hold if you give them some movement. Whereas a coyote coming to distress will bust out at the first errant turn of the body, I've had many coyote actually become even more interested in what I am once I show them a moving hand of shift my foot. Much like you might do to pique a bobcat's curiosity on stand. I think it's because they heard a coyote and are looking for something coyote-sized as the source. In the absence of anything that size, they seem to get a bit nervous. A little bit of movement (non-threatening) seems to add another dimension to the picture forming in their head. Anyone else share that experience?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dusty Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1031
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posted January 05, 2007 11:36 AM
The sharing of information on this website is a very good thing. Sometimes I think it is easy to misunderstand people because the written word can be interpretted differently from the spoken word because there is no inflection or voice tone. I have always twisted my head slowly back and forth. Now I'll be more aware of the amount of time I use to scan the area.
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 05, 2007 11:37 AM
At times it can be amazing what you can get away with on motion.
Lance
quote:
I have a lot of backing to break up my outline, even to the extent this year that I find myself seeking out low ground looking up versus high ground looking down more and more.
I'm picturing myself walking up a hill and raising my head to look up ahead and then back down to see where I'm walking. And then walking downhill and just lifting my eyes to see ahead and then lowing my eyes to see where I'm stepping. Much easier for me to see downhill and I'm sure it is for the coyote. IMHO, you're going to get pegged alot quicker if you call them downhill to you.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted January 05, 2007 01:15 PM
True Dennis, and because it's easier... do you think he may feel more comfortable coming downhill? Therefor more likely to commit to within range of the setup?
Similar to turkey hunting, wary gobblers are leary of coming DOWNhill to a call because their flight is restricted to the direction of the percieved danger. If they walk downhill and come upon a coyote they'll have to fly over his head or run uphill- both dangerous manuevres for a 25 pound bird. Find a way to call that bird uphill or out the ridge and you're much more likely to get a shot.
I try to keep from making a coyote do something he doesn't want too... this "Uphill Battle" is something I've noticed a few times this year with pressured hardwoods coyotes.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 05, 2007 01:17 PM
I try and target cats on alot of my sets and I try and move very little....I have even made mod's to lenghten my facemask to cover my hand movement. I THINK that cats tend to sit down in deeper cover if they see movement (instead of coming to the edge) - until they can figure out what they are looking at. I know when I hunt like this the coyotes I kill just seem to appear......Now when targeting coyotes my head is moving 160 degrees every 15-20 sec's (just timed myself looking shoulder to shoulder) and I pick the coyotes up much quicker...
Lance - I have had coyotes go into a trot towards me as I eased up my gun....I think they are committed and think they have found the easy meal...I have also had some turn to leave, but they can be stopped with a bark..
Albert - this is a good topic.
Regards
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 05, 2007 03:38 PM
"IMHO, you're going to get pegged alot quicker if you call them downhill to you."
Point well taken, but when you don't have any kind of structure to hide in front of or behind and long rolling hills to hunt, you put by and make due with what's handed to you. Would you rather have a coyote see you skylined or see the coyote skylined as he tops the hill coming in?
As much as I would like to hunt from prone, it's infeasible here since your visibilty would be cut to less than five feet because of knee-high grass. (Shooting from hillside to hillside is out, too, since that range is easily and often 800 yards-+.) On the other hand, the aspect of view afforded by sitting low looking at an approaching sloped hillside isn't a whole lot different than that from the top looking across a valley, except that an approaching target is visible the whole time if you pick the right seat (compared to the last few hundred yards looking down a slope where the approaching coyote is effectively on a level plane with you and moves in and out of sight. This is good until you find the coyote has closed the range to kissing distance under cover of a roll on the hillside and you can't get a clear shot. Happens a lot here). We often employ this strategy by me sitting low in a drainage and Matt sitting where he can cover the most likely approach above the valley. We find a lot of coyotes find a comfort zone being able to respond to lunch under the cover of a valley where they won't be seen from the road. Best part? You've got an entire friggin' hillside for backing to cover your silhouette. If you cammy up well and sit tight, you'd be surprised at how effective a set up it can be. Not my humble opinion. Personal experience. And BTW, I'm not calling them off a cliff. In this area, a hill side may have a drop off less than a hundred feet over a distance of a half mile or more. Just another option for guys out there. Take it or leave it. But there are a lot of "rules" borne of longheld opinions that only serve to disqualify otherwise promising set ups. As I've told a lot of struggling callers: Take all the advice you've been given by so-called experts, consider each pearl that they told you never to do and give each of them a try. They usually told you never to do them because they were once told the same thing or it's a technique they use with success and don't want you catching on. In most cases, those nevers are things most of those people have no personal experience with and their effectiveness comes from the fact that if no one is doing it, it's the unique thing that no one else is doing that gives you the "edge". Case in point, I've got a post here that tells how I called the same pack twice Monday. How many times have you been told you can't do that. Ever. Just won't work. I peeled a half dozen coyotes last year that I missed the first round and went back an hour later and killed them. Never say never.
[ January 05, 2007, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 05, 2007 04:15 PM
Take Lance's big hill, for example. Your on top looking down. Position your head 24" off the ground, pan 180.
Go to the bottom of that hill, place your head 24" off the ground, pan 180.
Big difference in sight picture. Especially if there is any vegetation.
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Peripheral vision; If you tuck your chin, et slightly move it off center of your chest. Your sight picture will increase. Takes very little movement.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 05, 2007 05:12 PM
Lance, totaly off subject and maybe just plain stupid but... have you ever seen those antelope decoys that people supposedly walk behind while getting closer? I'm thinking a cow silohette for your cover. I know it sounds stupid but it might work. If you try it be sure and let me know how it works.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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tooslow
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1063
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posted January 05, 2007 05:41 PM
the hot setup on a sunny morning would be elevated with a brush backstop and the sun coming up behind you, this will give full moblity to scan and shoot without wory of movement. And with the brush behind you it would allow for a wrong direction critter a chance to die as well. I'm with LB you can't kill what you can't see, and no matter how hard I try I can't sit motionless which would alow any animal outside my tunnel vission to leave without the oportunity of tasting lead.
Posts: 28 | From: Hesperia, Ca. | Registered: Dec 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 05, 2007 06:11 PM
Tom, a while back on the Outdoor Channel, these guys were hunting blacktails in Alaska and their guide left them a couple goofy looking ballcaps that had oversized eye on the front above the bill and Mickey Mouse-like deer ears sewn to the sides. He had told them the hats would assist them in stalking closer to the deer. They laughed. At first. Upon trying them, they were amazed that they shot their first few deer (bow hunting) from under fifteen yards on open tundra-like habitat. They had the video to prove it. LOL Maybe a guy oughttra try that with a hat that has coyote ears on it. You go first and let me know how it works out. Oh,... and keep your head down.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 05, 2007 06:25 PM
Hey 2 dogs, welcome home.!!!
"Big difference in sight picture. "
Agreed. But it's what is in view that is important to me. I'm not a long range shooter, so shots over 300 yards could be as far as a mile where I'm concerned. LOL From that hilltop, I can see far and wide. I also stand out like a turd in a punch bowl. Even to a coyote 1,000 yards away. I can come down the hill a ways and same deal as far as my ability to shoot. From either side, because of no cover, I'm still a human shaped form on that hillside and have been busted by inbound bogies. If I stay low enough to avoid detection, I can see the coyote way the hell out there, but as he closes, he and I are on a level plane, even though that plane lies on a slant. Because of that. I often lose sight of him in the grass because he isn't tall enough to stand out. (Understand that our grass hides him easily, but me? Not so much.)
Now, go to the bottom of that same hill where you're looking level to slightly up into the opposite hillside. I usually try to set up just above rock bottom so there's a little bit of "flat" for him to go toward. If a coyote comes over the top, he's easy to see all the way down and well within the hot zone by the time he hits bottom with me. Kinda like watching a drive in movie.
If he comes around the flank, in the first place, I'm not at the bottom so I have some elevation (minimal) to keep me level with him, but more importantly, I have the entire state of Kansas behind me for backdrop. And often they do come in low, following the drainages as they wind themselves around and thru the hills to get to me rather than straightlining their way to me over hill and dell, skylining themselves as they go.
This setup works if you're using mouthcalls. If I'm using electronics, I would position the caller in the bottom and set up midway up the hill to gain vantage point and sit really still. The difference is that the sound has them focused on the bottom rather than on me as its source. Or, as I described above with my partner and me with him a bit higher as the sniper. Again, he's not the source and will be able to operate there without calling undue attention to himself.
Our coyotes don't like hills. They hang in the low drainages and travel on the hillsides. Given the chance, I'm sure they'd just as soon head to the cover of a weedy drainage rather than run up the side of a hill in front of God and everyone. And, just as has been offered respective to wind, give them what they want to do anyway. Grant them their sense of false security. And whack 'em when they fall for it. Sure, it's a bit unorthodox as setups go, but it works.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 05, 2007 06:51 PM
Admittedly, I scanned what Lance wrote a bit quickly, but all things being equal, calling an animal uphill is easier....in my experience.
To use a golf term I like, you have to play the lie, so there will be those situations where it makes sense to sit low and watch the elevated terrain. (read "hill")
On the other hand, better than half the time, my coyote will romp in from either side, rather than over the hill....where (I might add) he has great difficulty in hearing my call.
Another reason to slowly rotate my head side to side, I think?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32367 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 05, 2007 07:58 PM
Lance,
As you know, I stalk coyotes. Don't call much @ all. I've had many bust me [seeing my movement or hearing me] from afar. IMO, they hear like an owl.
I shoot from atop of "my hill" which is often across the valley from the coyote. As I stalk forward, "in a perfect World". My eyes & the top of my head are above my ridgeline, keeping an eye on the coyote.
This tactic reduce's my odds of a wasted walk.
When I go into crawl mode. I'll often raise my head roughly the height of a coyote's line of sight 24-28" give or take. If I can see his eyes, he can see mine.
The second coyote I called out. Busted me, as I was slowly panning/calling with my Tally-Ho. He pronked over a ridgeline from my 5:00[blindside] looking for the sound, he was around 75ft away.
We seen each other the same time. I was barely moving, wearing a Cabela Waterfowler Ghilli suit, sitting on deep CRP grass.
Yet, the coyote picked me out, very quickly. He went flat out. I commenced to empty my mag.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 06, 2007 04:45 AM
I believe that Cdog911 knows his area, and the coyotes who reside there. I also tend to believe the funny looking hat with big eyes above the bill and funky looking ears is something to ponder. The bad thing about looking like a wild animal however, is that another hunter may just shoot ya.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 06, 2007 11:26 AM
I believe we call that a mother in-law hat, only they usually have horns and come with a brown coat. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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