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Author
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Topic: The New Huntmastersbbs!2 question:coyotes nose
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 29, 2006 10:23 PM
leonard; I have a question for you or anyone else. Just straight answers please no B.S...
Years ago i read a article on the nose of coyotes, about how far they can smell etc. This writter said if you are in a situation where the only direction you can call is down wind, then go ahead and call down wind. Some of the areas i call i do this and have had good results. I noticed when the temp is say 32 degrees or colder the coyotes come in to 100 yds or less and when its warmer they get my sent at different distances depending on the temp. at the time. Some say the coyote can smell for miles, but from what i exsperienced i dont think they can smell as far when the temps drop. Have you and anyone else noticed this? Or may have some info on this subject. Or is it the coyote smells me but does'nt care? I dont know the answer, but i do know that it dosent matter which way i call most of the time. Thanks
[ June 08, 2006, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 29, 2006 11:54 PM
I have never seen anything that would indicate that a coyote's nose degrades in colder weather?
I have always felt that how far a coyote goes downwind is variable due to the individual, and the cover and maybe the wind velocity? I have not noticed that they tend to come closer because it's below freezing?
Man, I can't answer that question? Anybody out there?
Good huting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
Member # 796
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posted March 30, 2006 02:14 AM
I heard that they can smell a carrion form a long ways off, but thats carrion it smells foul no matter what.
The wind on these mountain foot hills here in idaho really screws up the rule of thumb on wind, cause it really get to shifting around, so alot of the time I do call down wind. hell the only thing I can guess and its only a guess is you get more thermal activity when it warms and that activity may be more active above 32 degrees, along with being above the freezing point which may cause your scent to be lofted easier in the down wind direction and then below 32 degrees your scent may freeze with the moisture comming from your perspiration before it gets down wind even if you dont feel sweaty the moitures there.
I used to be a cook at this resturant and we had to run alot of onions through a buffalo chopper for salsa and it would give off so much gas you couldn't get away form it the only refuge you could get was to go into one of the walkin freezers and then the crying would stop, so I know temperature has some effect on strong odor. Maybe our scent has the same effect on a coyotes scense of smell like the strong onoin example. Im not a 100% on this, but its something to think about though. Thats a good question.
[ March 30, 2006, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: RedRabbit ]
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 30, 2006 04:30 AM
Maybe it's the effect of relative humidity that does it. Colder air usually has less moisture in it and from years of training coonhounds, I can tell you that moisture in the air plays a huge role in a dog's tracking ability.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted March 30, 2006 06:09 AM
Is the surface temperature warmer that the air temperature or just the opposite? Strong wind or light wind(wide or narrow scent cone)? Are you set up on a higher or lower elevation than the coyote? When did the coyote actually get downwind? 100yds, or 400 or more yards. Was your approach from the upwind or cross wind?
Dennis
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 30, 2006 06:27 AM
Dennis covered some of the variables involved. I used to think that odors from a warm body would rise on colder air and be dispersed by cross currents and convectives. National Geographic produced a program on polar bears predation on seals recently that showed the bears detecting the seals under the ice. The bears traveled cross wind and picked up the scent of the seals breath coming from an airhole in the ice from as far as three miles away.
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted March 30, 2006 06:46 AM
I've noticed the same thing. IMHO I think it's a combination of things. I think the dryer air/lower relative humidity plays into it as well as other weather features, but I also think when it gets colder my clothing has something to do with it as well. When the temps drop I wear more and thicker clothing. Like instead of a warm weather turkey face mask I wear a thick fleece face mask. As it gets colder the thicker the jacket/coat, bibs or coveralls, gloves, boots, etc that I wear.
I assume that the more warmer clothes I wear to keep the cold out the more of my scent I'm keeping in?
later,
scruffy
[ March 30, 2006, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 30, 2006 07:51 AM
When you stop to think about it, doesn't everything stink more in hot weather? Dead animals decompose in warm weather, people sweat more and stink worse in warm weather. I think that coyotes can smell just as well in cold weather, but there is not as much odor hanging around for them to smell. When I am calling coyotes in real open country, I often call downwind. I find that coyotes often show themselves before they get directly downwind of my position. I have seen them hit my scent cone at over 300 yards and spook. That was usually north texas hunting, and weather usually wasn't really that cold though.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 30, 2006 08:37 AM
When it's cold, I tend to wear a muffler.
Ohkay, now this is real crude, but I swear it's true stuff. As many may remember, I worked at a large ice cream plant and on occasion, had to go inside, -25º and apraise breakdowns, etc. I think the first thing that someone learns, that is new to freezers is that scent lingers, and is much more intense in the cold. You don't ever want to fart around anybody, because when the fans are off, (defrost cycles) it just lingers and never goes away. Really gags ya! This is absolute truth. Of course if the fans are on, it may require the nose of a polar bear, but in relatively still air, flatulence is no secret....I'm getting sick just thinking about it! Of course, it was never me, I knew better; for sure, no little toot goes unnoticed.
Good hunting. LB
[ March 30, 2006, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
Member # 796
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posted March 30, 2006 09:42 AM
Well there goes my theory. I dont know about that flatulence in cold temperatures never been in a confined space at -25 degrees long enough to find out, but I do know this guy that had a problem farting all the time and I swear something crawled up his...YEAH!... and died. I swear you cold smell his farts no matter where you were standing.
On a more serious note though there are alot of variables, as greenside pointed out and scruffy's point on heavy clothing. I find it hard to narrow it down to just freezing temperature especially under hunting conditions. I suppose flatland areas would be atleast a more consistant place to factor in the phenomena.
[ March 30, 2006, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: RedRabbit ]
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 30, 2006 09:46 AM
LOL Leonard. We all know that a nice guy like you would NEVER do something like that to a co-worker. Oh heck no,NEVER! ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Bulllllllllll-sheeeeeeeiiiiiite.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 30, 2006 01:02 PM
I guess you don't know me very well, Rich? I'm very modest and uncomfortable with that type of subject matter. While others may scream hilariously at crude body noises, I never think it's funny, at all. Just one of those strange quirks of personality, British reserve, as it were.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted March 30, 2006 01:02 PM
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
[ April 08, 2006, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Rob ]
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
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Baldknobber
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Member # 514
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posted March 30, 2006 03:44 PM
Lance nailed it. My experience with coonhounds taught me the same thing. Humidity plays a major part in scenting.
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JTBMO
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 02, 2006 06:35 PM
Google; type in canine scenting.
It's been awhile. Found a univerisity that did such a study in a controlled atmosphere. If I recall what that study found, was...
Smallest [sample/partical] a perticular dog "scented" was 6-PPT[Parts Per Trillion] in Air. Why would the average coyote, be much different. The're not, just as capable IMB.
It's been roughly 30 yrs or more since we had/used coyote trail hounds. Humidity levels[along with a high crosswind], made all the difference whether they took a track or not. Regardless of the relative age of the track.
Yah, I know...How did you distinguish that.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 02, 2006 06:51 PM
You have nothing to worry about, 2dogs. I will vouch for everything you wrote.
I don't know how they do it, but I have read about these tests. The ones that impress me are the sharks, salt water, not humid air.
Good hunting. LB
edit: one thing I recall was that not all dogs are equal, far from it. And that was the reason for the testing, find the talented ones.
[ April 02, 2006, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 02, 2006 07:12 PM
Fish;
Lateral lines [detect shock waves or pulse waves]. I've also heard they have scensory cells that dechiper taste.
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I don't recall now "exactly" about our hounds ability, when scenting during[humid vs. non-humid] coyote tracks.
Seem's to me, they did better on "dry days" for taking a track. My memory is not well, LOL!
As for a canine[breed specific], scenting ability. I don't doubt some are better than others. Even within the same breed, go figure.
If you've ever watched trail hounds. You'll see them occasionally sway, off the side of a track while their running it[heavier scent deposit from the wind??? hmmmm].
Ever watched a chemical cloud travel? or low lying smoke from a fire. Well, in a little wind they travel pretty far. Now break down that "cloud" into a few "Parts Per Million". It's not hard to realize, in certain conditions.
"canines" can scent ya from afar.
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 02, 2006 07:24 PM
We have a Boarder Collie X. She has a very good nose. But to find one of her toys that blends in with the grass in our acre yard. She has to be "directly" downwind, when
she pick's up the "vapor scent cone" from the toy. The scent cone is apparently, very narrow[say an inch or so wide]. Just "directly" downwind a couple yards away. This scenario happens, in a wind of around 10mph.
[ April 02, 2006, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted April 02, 2006 09:17 PM
A little off topic, but the fish thing made it come to mind. I read some report somewhere recently, that noted sound, travels five times faster underwater than it does topside?
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 03, 2006 04:17 AM
Yah Vic, Some yrs back I watched a documentary on Whales. The show covered a few species, specifically [Blue's & Sperm Whales].
Narrator said, they can communicate over vast distances[many miles] with high pitched squeels & some sort of deep toned audio [gutteral, clicks & thumps].
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What is interesting & makes me ponder. Is this "scent cone" that canines pick up off of humans. Others, have said it widens & weaken as it travels down-wind. Makes sence to me.
I would like to see a scientific video of what the human puts off & how far it can actually travel. In different weather & terrain scenario's.
Don't know if "Infra Red" imaging would assist in that study.
I'm thinking [sweat, vapor molecules] travel for hundreds of yrds, as composed to skin cells & hair folicules.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 03, 2006 07:07 AM
The person that comes to mind, speaking of a "scent cone", is my old buddy, JH. In his visuals, it looks like a slice of green pie. That does not fit with my observations. I'd rather think of it as a tunnel, to convey the size and shape. Because I have used Magic Mist for so many years, I watch it float downwind. It does not disperse laterally (or vertically, for that matter) more than a fraction of a degree.
Anyone that read "The Hunt For Red October" knows that the Navy communicates with submarines underwater with accustic low frequency sounds that travel thousands of miles underwater.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
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posted April 03, 2006 07:39 AM
You bring up another point, Leonard. I agree this "cone" is narrower then what most assume it is.
Getting back my observations of our dog. This toy, well one anyway I spoke of previously. Is a multi colored Tennis Ball. From what I've seen, it appears the scent-cone coming off of the ball. Is relative to it's overall size/dimensions, interesting.
Apparently the scent off of the ball, "hugs" the ground immediately[ball on the ground, duh ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ] & travels with the line of the wind. Our dog doesn't lift her head to catch the scent. But sweeps her nose near the top of the grass. Pausing @ times, to stick her nose, into the grass. Then she'll swing into the wind & go directly to the ball.
Another thought on "vapors" traveling in air/wind. Is [vapor density], ie; Weight of a known vapor. Compared to the weight of [Air]. Air = [1.0] Vapor Density.
If we then knew the vapor density of human sweat. We'd be onto something, LOL!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 03, 2006 08:06 AM
Well, all I know about that is the theory of Gortex. Water molecules can't pass through the membrane but water vaper is so much smaller, supposedly, the membrane allows for sweat to pass through the microscopic mesh. Therefore, I assume that when dealing with wind currents, my mist is liquid droplets until it evaporated as it floats and at a certain point, depending on humidity, there will be more vapors or mostly vapor. But, it doesn't matter, vapor and liquid travel the same road.
Good hunting. LB
[ April 03, 2006, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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