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Author
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Topic: .17 Rem draws first blood
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
Member # 796
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posted March 16, 2006 11:12 AM
New .17 Rem Cz draws first blood last evening. Sorry no pics. Ive got to get over to wally world to get a usb cord on the other hand I doubt I would post it anyway it was pretty greusome.
The .17 Rem is a pretty wicked caliber and yes I did use 20 grain bullets splash effect is an under statement they just plain explode. "literally" the lungs were vacumed out.
I know Im going to hear the proverbial "I told you so", but there was now way she was going to get away, since she had no lungs to speak of. Oh well, Im pleased to know the .17 is an ideal coyote tool. BTW the misting works great Leonard, I only had coyote and fox piss to do it with though.
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Jrbhunter
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posted March 16, 2006 12:29 PM
So you had a pretty gruesome outcome with the 17Rem on a coyote eh'? I'd like to see the pics, even if only via email.
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
Member # 796
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posted March 16, 2006 01:46 PM
Sorry I didnt take any since I didnt have the cord in the first place, even though I had my cell phone camera I just didn't see any reason to collect that that kind of carnage.
Put it this way the coyote went into one of those spins after the first shot (lung) and the second round hit it in the front leg almost took it off, then the third hit in the head knocked it down the forth went over and fifth I went up to it and finished it off. I dont know why the first shot didn't kill it in the first place, since it was hit really good. "Instant blood" this dog must of had High blood pressure, or induced go figure.
The skinning was a bit of a chore I would of liked to have kept the face, as she still had a good pelt, but I got the majority and it will make a good throw.
[ March 16, 2006, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: RedRabbit ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 16, 2006 02:05 PM
I going to hear about this here comment; but here goes anyway!
(*deep breath)
Your description is similiar to many accounts about shooting a coyote with a seventeen caliber. Whether it is the result of poor shot placement, or (in your case) bad choice of bullets, this seems to happen frequently? A lot of damage, number one, and sometimes they just run off? Yeah, you are right, it happens with other cartridges, but (in my opinion) not nearly as often. Not saying a 20 grain bullet won't kill, if you are up to the "surgical precision" required? You didn't include any information about range and angle, or if he/she was moving, but here's the deal, ( my opinion ) is that a seventeen just isn't for everybody, and it isn't the "ideal coyote tool" under every possible scenario you encounter while sitting on a stand. Most seventeen users completely overlook the negative experiences and only remember the ideal; an undamaged, dead coyote as the typical result.
quote:
...the coyote went into one of those spins after the first shot (lung) and the second round hit it in the front leg almost took it off, then the third hit in the head knocked it down the forth went over and fifth I went up to it and finished it off. I dont know why the first shot didn't kill it in the first place, since it was hit pretty really good.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted March 16, 2006 02:52 PM
Lets see, 5 shots to collect one coyote including 1 head shot and one lung shot yet you are pleased to KNOW the .17 is an ideal coyote tool. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Q,
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Jrbhunter
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posted March 16, 2006 02:58 PM
QUOTE: RedRabbit-
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Oh well, Im pleased to know the .17 is an ideal coyote tool.
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Put it this way the coyote went into one of those spins after the first shot (lung) and the second round hit it in the front leg almost took it off, then the third hit in the head knocked it down the forth went over and fifth I went up to it and finished it off.
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Where did you aim with that fifth round... to put finish off the lungshot, headshot, 3legged coyote?
Also, what kind of framing hammer do you own?
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Jrbhunter
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posted March 16, 2006 02:59 PM
Damnit Q
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 16, 2006 03:33 PM
RedRabbit, when these guys are finished and you've applied the proper amount of Preparation H, I would ask you to tell how you used the mist and the coyotes reaction to it. How far out was the coyote when it hit your downwind and did it approach any closer after?
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Leonard
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posted March 16, 2006 03:41 PM
Hey, he has balls, give him (some) credit for giving us an unvarnished account.
But, good point, Higgins. I wondered about that reaction,myself....but then I lost track of it in my haste to vilify other stuff. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2006 03:55 PM
The fifth shot hit in head and still had to shoot one more time to finish off, plus a lung shot. Know what i say B.S. big time. Leonard you have some very good points, wether you are useing a 17 cal. or larger its the shooter and correct shot placement. Now on the comment on the 17 cal. not being good enough for a serious coyote rifle. Look at these two pic.s real close, all three coyotes in pic were all head shot, no second or third shot required, in the second pic, this coyote was neck shot, no second or third shot required. You are a hell-of a nice guy Leonard but you are also a non believer. I have a 22-250 ackley that i had built for coyotes but i havent found a reason to quit useing my 17 cal. yet. 
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2006 03:57 PM
2nd pic. 
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 16, 2006 04:17 PM
TA, I don't know what I am? Ever watch the HBO show called "Curb Your Enthusiasm"? That's all I want. I don't need all these glorious accounts about the perfect seventeen caliber coyote cartridges. I have seen performance from every cartridge you ever heard of, the 17 Remington does not stand out in my mind as perfect. It's just one of many, but it isn't the perfect solution; far from it. I don't care what a guy uses, but some people believe what they read, as opposed to seeing with their own eyes. Once the average coyote hunter buys a 17 Remington, he is very reluctant to admit that it has flaws.
But, on the other hand, let me compliment you on a very good choice. The 22-250 Ackley is just about as good as it gets, as a coyote caliber....but, you still have to use a good bullet.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
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posted March 16, 2006 04:37 PM
"But, on the other hand, let me compliment you on a very good choice. The 22-250 Ackley is just about as good as it gets, as a coyote caliber....but, you still have to use a good bullet."
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You have to use a good bullet. I have said that so many times I can't even count em. Not many folks listen, so I just gave up. My friend Monte Dodson once told me something about those who use needle guns and light varmint bullets on coyotes. "They will learn" he said.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2006 04:55 PM
Loenard // Rich thanks for the compliments on the 22-250 ackley. I use Hornady 52 gr. A-Max bullets in it, also in my 22-250 rem i use 52 gr. sierras. The 17 rem. is not perfect but neither is any other cal.. You'll have to forgive me but i can't help it when someone says the 17 dont got it, i believe in my heart they are wrong. I carry both a 17 cal with 30 gr.bullets and the ackley in truck at all times. And like i stated the 17 has not let me down. It has taken coyotes from 50 yds. out to 456 yds with one shot kills. It has done what i have asked of it and thats why i stand by it. Take care and good shooting.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 16, 2006 05:15 PM
TA17Rem,
You are a much better shot than me. I started out in this game with a .223, and that is when I first learned about surface blowup with the blitz king type bullets. My best luck with the .223 and .22-.250 was with the sierra 55 grain "Gamekings". Both of my serious coyote rifles are quarter bores now. Good hunting.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted March 16, 2006 05:22 PM
We`ve all seen coyotes that seemed like they wouldn`t die, it happens with every caliber. I`ve done it myself with 22 & 30 caliber rifles & you can sometimes blame the bullet but more than likely it`s piss poor shooting & YES if your gonna shoot a .17 you`d better have a mindset of taking a GOOD shot & not just chuckin` lead at a coyote as it meanders by, that MIGHT work with larger calibers but most likely not a .17 & if your shooting a .17 in order to salvage the fur (which is why most of us who hunt with one, use it) then you ought to know the limitations of it & the available bullets.
5 SHOTS!!! If you used a poor bullet against experienced advice & had to shoot the thing 5 times & then post the story on the internet then I gotta agree with LB......you got balls. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
btw... if you had just relaxed that trigger finger for a half second that coyote probably would have expired shortly.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2006 05:28 PM
Thanks Rich, but i'm just the average joe, I do practice alot though. I shoot alot of paper targets and pop cans. i have shot maybe 100 rounds at coyotes and fox and 500 or more at targets. I also use a BDC dial on my scope and that has helped with the longer shots. I have a shooting range that is 1000 yds. long. I practice shooting from 100 yds to 600 yds with the 17 rem and 22-250 ackley, i use shooting sticks when ever possible and practice off hand shooting as well. Practice wont make me perfect, but will help me to become better. Thanks
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 16, 2006 09:53 PM
If, the lungs were trashed like you stated, the one shot would have been sufficient. You either shoot REAL fast, in order to get four more rounds at that dead coyote....or quite simply, the story didn't happen as stated?
I, on the other hand, called two coyotes and a bobcat monday morning, and each fell to a 25 grain bullet, one short sprinter(15 yards), the other coyote and the bobcat, dropped in their tracks.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2006 10:10 PM
AZ-hunter, way to go on the hunt today, and i could'nt agree with you more. dam good shooting.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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RedRabbit
Knows what it's all about
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posted March 17, 2006 02:37 AM
OK! let see where do I start? I'll admit it was an unvarnished account I didnt want to embellish too much, as to make it come across as sugar coated BS and give all the gory detail. There are a few that need to calm down here and have another drink for ph**k sakes! wheres my lawyer?
I was sitting out in a CRP field with a 3% or so grade with a soil erosion berm with sage brush running its length that devided me between two fields with a snow drift that ran the length of it in a arch. My position was such that I could pretty much see all around, sun at my back some what. I was facing NNE and the wind was going NEE at about 5mph or less and sometimes shifting North slightly, but enough to get the mist to go out away from me. I gave the scent about 20min to really spread out and pumped the bottles another 10 times before I started calling. I belive the scent from the mist was curling along the snow drift cause every now and then I would catch a slight wiff of it (back draft). The coyote came in from the NNW and crossed the same berm/drift I was sitting on, then hit the scent, but may have hit it sooner, as wind does some weird things here in the mountain foot hills i.e., steady one way walk a hundred yrds and its going another. As soon as she made it over the berm she followed the berm/drift right up until she saw me pull my rifle up to get the bipod out of the snow into a better position. I new she didnt make me out as I was wearing my ghilli thus affording me some movement, so she trotted out to about 50 to 60 yrds where I barked her to a stop. There is some guessing as to the mist having some influence as I described but Ill vouch it did cause of the way she was comming in.
OK for you BS hounds! If you take a look at the facts I didn't hit it five times I hit four times one went over. Chalk that one shot up for the spinning and hobby horsing around.
The first one hit it in the boiler room supply tanks, then she paused again squared off with me (paused) and I hit her in the front leg trying for a chest shot, then she paused one more time and I hit her in the head (cheek) at an angle that one put her down but wasn't square enough to penetrate. I though she was dead at that point except for a little movement which I thought was the dying quivers, which alot of them do, so I continued calling for another what felt like 10 to 15 minutes then looked back at her and noticed she moved, so I went up to her and seen the hole she was tring to breath out of and finished her off that one being the fifth shot but forth hit.
Recap: the head shot, the missed shot, and the finishing shot doesn't count as to the testament of the rifle being a good tool. Damage as compared to my .223 It is plenty.
I don't know why an animal wants to survive being mortally hit, but it happens sometimes. I'll admit that the lungs being vacumed out completely maybe a bit overstated (Oops! a little to much sugar), but in my opinion it was enough for me to qualify the .17 rem as being an ideal coyote tool.
I'll try to keep it a little more low keyed next time, since Im on a forum with expert killers that never miss, and all their animals go BANG FLOP!
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 17, 2006 06:30 AM
"The first one hit it in the boiler room supply tanks, then she paused again squared off with me"
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Sounds like a perfect example of bullet blowing up on the surface. For a coyote bullet, think thick jacket and controlled expansion. I am all done with that subject now.
I have been looking at close up photo's of a Sako 75 laminated varmint with fluted barrel in .22-.250. Holy Mackeral it's hard to keep my credit card in my wallet after looking at that bugger! Now if I only had Leonard's money---------
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Jrbhunter
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posted March 17, 2006 08:43 AM
Out of 50 whitetail deer we have studied I can say that a double lung shot will result in an immobilized deer in under 16 seconds. Recurve bow, compound bow, crossbow, rifle or shotgun. 16 seconds (Most under 12). They will be brain-dead and unresponsive within one minute.
I have stuck knives in double lunged deer within 30-40 seconds of them being shot... some will flinch as the knife hits their skin. After 60 seconds, no flinching. Ever. I have witnessed approximately 300 whitetails being harvested... 50 of which I used for the research above.
Without any real indepth study on my part, I still feel comfortable in saying a coyote with lungs that have been ruptured by a centerfire rifle produces brainwaves less than 60 seconds.
Throw in a bullet moving 4,000FPS and a mere 50 yard shot and a 15 minute lifespan... well... I have to wonder if his "lungs" were full of half digested rabbits.
[ March 17, 2006, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
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RedRabbit
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Member # 796
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posted March 17, 2006 08:53 AM
I'll say it again, it went >in< past the rib cage and exploded....Theres No need for anyone to get the crystal ball out, or do a palm reading, or Rolodex of photos. Thats just the way it happened. Take or leave it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 17, 2006 09:13 AM
Red, I think what some are saying here is that they are not disputing the facts as much as the interpretation of the facts. Yes, I was aware that only 4 bullets hit the coyote, but it is still accurate to note that five shots were used. And, I fully understand a miss, under the circumstances.
Then there is the splash wound. Most people think that an animal hit in the lungs will die sooner than fifteen minutes, so the interpretation is that perhaps the lungs weren't as damaged as you thought? A coyote hit in the lung(s) can run. A coyote that can't run, because it is hit in the cheek or hit in a front leg, but is still breathing when you approach, that's a bit unusual....if (as you say) one lung was completely spilled open?
Anyway, we don't have anything better to do so now we slice and dice your vivid account. Main thing I hope dawns on you is that those 20 grain pills at 4,?00 aren't the ticket. Too many people have done the legwork and formed consensus.
Good hunting. LB
[ March 17, 2006, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Rich
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posted March 17, 2006 09:35 AM
I hit a coyote in right shoulder blade at about fifty yards with a mini-14 in .223. This was maybe twenty years ago, but I recall that the ammo was from the folks at Black Hills shooters supply. The bullet was 50 or 52 grain, and I remember that it was marked on the box as an "SX" bullet. I believe that "sx" is short for "Super explosive". I could see a football sized entrance wound as the coyote tried to limp away. He made it something over fifty yards before expiring. Upon closer examination, I could see what appeared to be small pieces of lung and quite a lot of blood with air bubbles in it. My best guess is that I got maybe one inch of penetration before the bullet exploded and destroyed one lung of the coyote. I learned a little bit about coyotes and bullets that day. I have spent over twenty years trying to pass on what I have learned. Some folks listen, but a lot of guys just have to learn from experience.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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