This is topic Which one first? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 21, 2006, 09:41 AM:
For this time of the year(late Jan to late Feb).
Let's say you have a likely male/female pair coming in. If you have a reasonable idea which one is the male and which one is the female, which coyote would you shoot first to give you the best chance of killing the second coyote or possibly calling it back for a shot?
The reason I ask is normally I just shoot the one that offers the easiest shot first. Than I'll take what I can get with the second one. Over the past several years when I have either knowingly or unknowingly shot the female first it seems I have a much higher chance to kill the male. If I shoot the male first the likely female scalds out of the country and never offers any type of a decent shot.
Maybe I'm thinking to much?
Thanks
Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 21, 2006, 10:16 AM:
If I'm hunting solo I go for the higher percentage shot first, be it the closer or farther or whatever. The one I feel I can put down the best is the one I try for.
I might not turn as many doubles with that strategy, but over the long haul I imagine taking the best shot first will kill more coyotes than taking the lower percentage shot first because I think it's the female and hope for a usually much lower percentage shot on the male.
If I'm hunting with a partner I try to take the one on my side so he'll have a shot at the one on his side when it bolts. On my last double I called with a partner I was on the right, partner on the left. I had a double come in fast from my right and the female flanked my right and the male came right in. If I was by myself I would have taken the male because that's where the rifle was pointed and it came in under 20 yards. But since I was with a partner on my left I swung the rifle over to my right and shot the female on my flank at 26 yards. The female dropped, the male went running off to my left, infront of my partner who shot him on the second shot quartering away at 150 yards. My female had gotten back up and started to run off with a 4" 22-250 hole in her side and I shot her again at 34 yards putting another 4" hole in her side right next to the first one (splashes...). She dropped and kept biting at it for a couple of seconds and then gave it up. Her boiler room was empty!
We tracked the blood trail from the male until it dried up and then looked for another 30 to 45 minutes. We never did find him.
The moral? That female could have easily bolted when I swung over on her but she didn't. At 26 yards she stopped and turned broadside (that doesn't happen often enough, LOL! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
). More often than not though she would have bolted and I would have had a low percentage shot, missed, and we would have had one wounded lost coyote (male) and another wounded or missed coyote (female).
Hunting solo I would have shot the male infront of my muzzle under 20 yards with little movement on my part getting on him, a high percentage shot. I likely wouldn't have gotten the female but like I said, over the long haul I think I'll kill more coyotes taking the high percentages shots they give me.
But hunting with a partner I try to do it so we both get to take one. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
later,
scruffy
[ February 21, 2006, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
Posted by Sue and Mark Nami (Member # 685) on February 21, 2006, 10:46 AM:
Boy this could sure open a debate of morals.
Wait till they spread and take a poor shot on the first.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 21, 2006, 11:13 AM:
I think it sometimes depends on how far it is to the nearest cover? If either the male or female can scoot over a hill, there is a good chance they will wait for a partner that never is going to show up. Can you get the survivor to show him/herself after gaining cover? Usually not. Stopping them in the open is not very reliable, depending on how much pressure the area has been getting.
It also depends on how close together they are when you start shooting. Trailing by fifty yards, you have a better chance than if they are shoulder to shoulder.
But, in overthinking this question, a coyote doesn't usually exibit much stupidity after shots fired. Therefore, I would vote for taking the high percentage shot and making the best of the subsequent opportunity. Hurt pup, woof, whistle, Whoop! whatever you attempt? These things play out so differently, from one situation to the next that I think it is difficult to select a hard a ridgid policy and apply it in every case.
I always relate these things to a pool table. The better player doesn't attempt a difficult shot until he has run out of chip shots, using what is called, "position". Figure out ahead of time which way the second animal is going to run. If you can't, a good guess is back the same way he came in from.
Good hunting. LB
[ February 21, 2006, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 21, 2006, 03:33 PM:
Mark,
The Morels usually don't start popping up until May.
In open ground with no cover close, I'd take the farthest coyote as soon as the close coyote started to flare off. Then go for the Texas Heart shot on the first.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 21, 2006, 04:51 PM:
I used to try and be cute and get multiples. Learned my lesson one day. Four came in one at a time. Long story short, all left and I didnt fire a shot. None were running either. All came in walking or trotting. Felt like an ass.
If there are multiples, I pretty much shoot whatever offers the best shot first and then hope to kill another. Whether it be the famous Texas Heart Shot, one of my favorites , or yip and keep callin or whatever.
You gotta kill one before you can kill two....
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 21, 2006, 05:35 PM:
That's always the way I have always approached it before. Take the easy one, and see how it plays out on getting the second. It just seems that for whatever reason, I have had better luck getting the male to slow up or possibly stop with barks, yips,or pup distress after shooting than the female. Maybe its just the way the chips fell? And who knows maybe the next dozen doubles will be just the opposite?
You are completely right Leonard, every situation is so different it's very difficult to come up with a "one size fits all" solution.
I read an old article sometime back that was about a fox hunter from the mid-west who stalked and shot fox at long range when fur prices were high. When he spotted a pair of fox he tried to figure out which one was the male and which was the female. By shooting the female first he thought he had a very good chance of getting the male also. The male might run off at the shot but would return looking for its mate. It got me wondering if any of you guys ever noticed anything about coyotes that made either the male or the female a little more vulnerable than the other when it came to seeing what happened to a missing mate?
Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 21, 2006, 06:24 PM:
Coyotes...Never called a pr. But I've stalked in on a boatload of 'em.
If I'm "desperate", LOL! I'll take the closest one.
But I haven't felt that way, well except this yr .
------------------------
Choice's;
1. "Normally" I'll shoot @ the farthest[Sgt. York] or highest-up first.
2. The largest[male, generally].
Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 21, 2006, 06:29 PM:
Lonny,
I told that same story ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Small World... It was about one of my Dad's bud's [Willard]. Willard has said many times. When shooting @ a pr of Red's. He'd shoot the [male/larger & often darker] first.
The female would often only run a short ways. Then hang around or go back over to her dead mate. The guy was a heackuva spot/stalker & shooter.
Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 21, 2006, 06:32 PM:
BTW, I never noticed this same scenario on a pr of Coyotes around my area.
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on February 22, 2006, 04:24 PM:
The female!
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on February 22, 2006, 04:44 PM:
Thanks Rob. All things being equal, I am thinking that its easier to kill both if you shoot the female first.
I still remember your saying that was something along these lines, "The male wears the pants but the female tells him which pair to put on"
2dogs, I'm not sure we are thinking of the same story or person. I may not be remembering it correctly but I thought this guy shot the female fox first, if possible.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 22, 2006, 05:34 PM:
A bird in the hand is worth more than a two birds in the bush!!
I have on two occasions shot the male first and KiYi'd the females back! But I've KiYi'd many times after the first kill of male and female only to not even get a glance over the shoulder by the mate!
[ February 22, 2006, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 22, 2006, 07:47 PM:
I agree with TR. I take the best shot opporunity and let the chips fall where they may. How many times have you called more than one and, in your efforts to set up the second kill, botched the first one? Pretty quick, you have coyotes scattering like quail and nothing to show but four empty brass and a bad taste in your mouth. (Never happened to me. I just pose the question for y'all to consider. ) You can't get the double until you have a single. And this brings up the question I posed some time back: You call in a pair. One is notably bigger than the other. Mates? Father - offspring? Which do you kill first and why? If it's to get a coyote that's causing a problem, I try to get the adult male first. If I'm just out for a body count, I go for the highest percentage shot and get them as close as I can before blowing my cover.
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on February 23, 2006, 04:22 AM:
Read an interesting article by Odon Corr from SD awhile back...he mentions how the female is just a little more wary...when family groups are intact will be the last one to get trapped because they always bring up the rear and in turn are always the last to get trapped or shot...and this habit of hanging back is very evident when calling in a pair (most times).
Slim Pedersen..mentions in his book how in the fall working family groups where you catch one or two and then have your trapline go dead because the coyotes have pulled away from were the trapper is activly working...it is almost always the old females who move the rest of the coyotes...If you are lucky enough to catch her first the rest of the coyote family will stick around and you will be able to catch more of that group.
Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 23, 2006, 06:19 AM:
10-4, Lonny.
Your [Story] was just familiar. I'm gonna contact Willard. To see if I told his story correctly. I've forgot alot ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by SwampCat (Member # 806) on February 23, 2006, 07:23 AM:
I'll play the highest percentage chance and take the female on the 1st shot. The male will be the most likely to stop and look back at Coyote distress cries, thus giving a shot at a standing 'yote....
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 23, 2006, 09:13 AM:
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, SwampCat. Glad to have you on board. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Good hunting. LB
PS I think we are putting too many conditions on this question. At sage brush flats distances, I can't always pick out a male from a female, and I doubt that many can. Siblings coming to a call, what's the strategy there? I have seen, numerous times where a hunter selects a particular coyote, ignoring a slam dunk, to shoot at what is easy to see as a more difficult target. The fact is, that close in coyote is the hardest to hit, after the shooting starts.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on February 23, 2006, 10:37 AM:
Let the trailer hear the whop and see the first one go down. Good chance the trailer might even stop on his own to look back.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on February 23, 2006, 10:45 AM:
I kill the one that looks easiest to skin. My successful doubles rarely involve stopping a retreating mate so I don't over analyze an incoming pair or shot opportunities.
Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 23, 2006, 11:38 AM:
I remember my first double I called in. A nice furred up coyote, very light colored, darted across a small opening 150 yards away between thick cover and a terrace to follow the backside of the terrace to get to my downwind side. The terrace ended short of my downwind a bit, 70 yards away, and the coyote had to expose itself before getting in my downwind. I had the rifle ready, waiting, waiting, ... then I see another coyote step out of the cover and stand broadside in the small opening between the cover and the terrace. It was mange head to toe, no hair anywhere, looked like a giant possum or something. The next few nights were to be cold November nights. The coyote behind the terrace walked out as planned, I gave a squeek, it stopped. I had both coyotes looking at me, frozen, broadside, a really nice one at 70 yards with the rifle pointed right at it, the other 150 yards to my right.
I swung to my right and rushed a shot (and missed) the 150 yard mangy coyote. Right over his back. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I tried to save that poor sick hurting coyote further misery, but messed up the shot. Given that same situation again I'd do the same thing (except the miss), I'd pass up on the chip shot good pelt and kill the sick mangy coyote out of mercy and respect.
later,
scruffy
[ February 23, 2006, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 26, 2006, 10:39 AM:
Lonny,
I found out the other day, while hunting with Larry. Larry, re-called what [Willard] had always professed. About shooting @ a pr of Reds.[Which one to shoot first?].
Take out the female, first.
I had it backwards, all these yrs . Interesting to know, what % that choice is.
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