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Author
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Topic: tracks in snow
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smoke em
Knows what it's all about
Member # 785
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posted January 11, 2006 05:26 PM
Do any of you hunt coyotes simply by finding tracks and know which to hunt and how just by track sign,I knew of old timers who could but am not sure how many of todays expert coyote hunters know how.
Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 11, 2006 07:21 PM
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, smoke em. Glad to have you on board.
I think most dedicated predator hunters pay attention to sign.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 05:45 AM
When I check a track. I consider [a lot of varibles]. A few of those are, loose "unfrozen" snow crumbs, along side & that have fallen into the roadway/ditch prints.
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Also if I come across a track. Crossing a gravel road. I check the tracks closest to the roadway. For gravel dust/dirt.
If you know roughly how traveled "that" road is.
Then that will "generally" indicate, how old the track is.
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I don't normally track coyote, unless their wounded. They pretty much are "constantly" looking behind them, around here. I don't like to waste my [hill humping] ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) . On a coyote that'll spot/hear me way off. Not even offering a decent mortar rd shot LOL ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Their constantly looking for food or danger. For ever, scanning....scanning.
Another reason, for why I don't track. Is available stalking cover, wind direction & speed & loud snow ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) .
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 05:53 AM
More...
If you run a coyote track blindly into a section. Not using the wind & terrain/cover in your favor. [Because you don't know "exactly" where the coyote is...duh]. Your wasting your time.
I've stalked them for many a moon. Thats even when I "know" where they are . That is often hard enough as it is, IMHO.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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smoke em
Knows what it's all about
Member # 785
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posted January 12, 2006 06:16 AM
I am talking also about hunting a coyote by tracks without having seen him or wounded him and without him having seen me also. I can get just as excited about a good track as I can about seeing the coyote and would often prefer a good track.They tend to be alot less wary .You can tell by the tracks if he has seen you,what he is generally doing,hunting,roaming,getting ready to lay down.The tracks will often tell you when to carry the rifle with your finger in the trigger guard ready. I think this has become a lost form of hunting.I just don't know of anyone anymore that is doing this.Is very satisying.I call also and hunt where plenty of rodeo hunting goes on but this doesn't greatly affect my success.I often hunt where pickups have just ran all over and still go in and get coyotes after the rodeo hunters have determined there is nothin there."FEEL THE TRACKS"
Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006
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smoke em
Knows what it's all about
Member # 785
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posted January 12, 2006 06:40 AM
2dogs, as unfruitful as you see track hunting , I find it way more successful than even good calling where I live..I looked at my notes and so far with the snow we have had I have killed 9 of 10 coyotes that Track hunted. .The tenth one was obvious was going to lay down where I had to expose myself before I got into range . I knew that shortly after I started his track by his behavoir.I continued to track him until I proved just that for my own satisfaction.29 coyotes killed calling but not in this location.
Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted January 12, 2006 07:21 AM
quote:
The tenth one was obvious was going to lay down where I had to expose myself before I got into range .
And that's the key difference between Smoke's experience saying it works well and 2dogs experience saying it's a waste of time. Smoke obviosly has cover to hide in and not "expose" himself. Out in 2dogs neck of the woods imagine picked corn and bean fields for as far as the eye can see, the only thing sticking out of the snow is fence posts and barb wire. Which is why 2dogs spot/stalks them. The coyotes stick out on the white blanket of snow walking or bedded down taking a nap. He glasses, finds them, then plans the stalk being sure not to let the coyote get his wind and trying his best not to let the coyote see him (belly crawling ![[Cool]](cool.gif) ).
With a good fluff snow 2dogs, using decaded of experience, can fill the back of his truck many times over before I could put a half dozen in the back of my truck by calling.
And I'm sure Smoke can do the same with tracking in his area.
Like has been said many times, there's more than one way to skin a cat, or coyote. Calling isn't the best method for every situation and area, it's just one way to "skin the cat". Some trap, some call, some spot/stalk, some track stalk. Heck, some sit over looking a dead peice of livestock.
If you're good at it, it puts fur down, you're having fun, that's what matters.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 08:24 AM
smoke em,
Sorry, I guess...I should of made my self more clearer. Wasn't my intent to "put down tracking" I agree, it is a lost art ![[Frown]](frown.gif) . It just would be a waste of time, in my hunt area.
As some reason's I previously mentioned. They are "extremely" cautious/paranoid/alert in my hunt area's. They often cross through fence's, out in a 1 sq. mile section[quarter mile fence lines]that is.
Because the tracker, would also have to cross over/through/under, the same fence. Is one major hindrence/error, for the tracker[telegraphing wire noise], eh .
I do understand the suspence & fun of tracking. My comment's, are based on my terrain & [the coyotes ]. As well as, the field conditions I sometimes have to overcome.
Larger land tracks[w/o fence's ], I believe would make a big difference in tracking success. Also quiet/fluff snow, plays a major factor. In getting a decent shot off. If all other things were equal.
No doubt, tracking will improve a coyote hunter's, knowledge, skill's & experience's.
Excellent topic, continue this discussion
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 12, 2006 08:54 AM
It's true enough that tracking is an old time method, under snow conditions. Especially wet snow and fresh snow.
I read an account from somewhere in Montana or Wyoming in the late eighteenth century where a tracker was hired to eliminate the last large wolf pack in the territory. He didn't kill any, he just tracked them continuously, and the wolves knew he was following them. Day after day, until he had chased them over the Canadian border, from which they never returned.
I also read of a man back east somewhere that used to track red fox in the snow. I believe, with snowshoes? He claimed that eventually, their tails became wet and very heavy, dragging in the snow. He was able to out endurance the fox to the point where he could walk right up on them, completely tuckered out, and take them with a shotgun.
Try "tracking" a coyote out here on our "desert pavement", you can walk all over the place and your vibram soles might turn over a couple of stones, every few steps, but you won't even track an elephant very far under those conditions....unless they are bleeding?
Believe me, I know what it is like to pick up scattered drops of blood on rust colored pebbles. Tracks? What tracks? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 10:35 AM
Snowfly, a dozen yrs ago, or so. I was out spottin, came across a predator tracker. He was running a coyote track my way.
I could tell by his gate, he was no spring chicken ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) . I thought,hmmmm I got to meet this guy. I waited, @ where his track came across the road.
When he got close, he waved, I waved back & smiled. It was below zero wind chill. The old guy had grit .
He walked over, I got out of my truck. We introduced ourselves. He pulled off his White face mask. I then realized just how old he was.
I asked....he said, "85"yrs old. I instantly admired, that old guy.
He told me, "he & his younger Bro" had been tracking coyote, in my area. Since right after WWII"
They would each take turns, "RUNNING" the track for a mile. Eventually coming up on the coyote. They shot many .
A few minutes later, here came his younger Bro [82yrs old] down the roadway. To take over the track.
No wonder we, never seen a coyote until 1968
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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smoke em
Knows what it's all about
Member # 785
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posted January 12, 2006 04:14 PM
2 dogs , you describe many of the same things I have dealt with. I have also hunted in areas near your location over the years, it is a challenge.My area is all bean and corn fields for scruffys information because I also live in the midwest.We do have some hills but many places that are miles of open, but geneally little cover as scruffy suggested.Crunchy snow is hard to overcome unless you have a lot of wind, fences I sometimes have to back track to
get around with no noise. Switch off tracking I had almost forot about since I have no partner to practice it with for a while. It is very effective.It would be fun to hunt with any of you guys. You talk about wild coyotes. It only takes a few individuals chasing them with vehicles spitting bullets to really wind them up.,but there is not much we can do about them.
I have been in your deserts Leonard and commented tracing would be impossible,,I did mention snow was necessary.
Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 05:26 PM
A little tip, on loud snow;
When your getting close to being "in-range" Get on your hands & knees. Point your toes inwards. Use the outer sides of your leg/calf to foot/ankle. From your knee to your ankle, as you crawl.
Crawl [very slowly] .
Make sure, you always have 3-points of contact. At all times, as your crawling towards your target. You'll be, VERY quiet, even on the loudest snow .
In essence; Your using your lower legs, like snowshoes. Greatly spreading out your weight[little to no, crunch breakthrough]. As well as, greatly cut's down on noise.
[ January 12, 2006, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 12, 2006 05:57 PM
I haven't even seen any snow on the mountain tops yet this winter.
We haven't had a rain worth mentioning since last summer. The brush is all dry as a bone and coyote brown.
I spot them by movement. It's pretty rare to spot one holding still, they just blend in too well.
So when I spot one, I hit him or the surrounding brush with the range finder. Consult my drop charts, adjust my scope, and if he is still in the area. I shoot him.
It's not as productive as calling or trapping, but it is gratifying when everything comes together and I really reach out to touch one.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 06:28 PM
Tim,
What brand/model range finder, you use?
Also any pro's/con's on it? Thanks...[been thinking of getting my own].
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 12, 2006 06:51 PM
I use the Bushnell YP 1,000. I bought it just before Leica came out with their 1,200 yard model Everyone I've talked to, whom have tried both, liked the Leica model better. I wish I had known about it a couple of weeks sooner.
I want to buy one of the Barr and Stroud range finders. But I keep spending my fun money on everything else before I can get one ordered.
The Bushnell is nice. It will range consistently out to 600-700 yards in most light conditions. I start ranging prominent landmarks as soon as I sit down. Those that I can't range, I try again later. As light conditions change, so does the range finders ability.
I have a couple of places that I like to go back to every now and then. I have a few land marks there that are to far to range. For them, I've walked halfway out, then ranged the landmark, turned around and ranged my seat.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 12, 2006 08:22 PM
Thanks, Tim.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 13, 2006 04:23 AM
smoke em,
Circa;1963-64
We use to walk picked bean, corn & cut hay fields. To kick-up Jackrabbits, for our sighthounds. We also spot/stalked Red Fox with our Greyhounds[Fall/Winter]. No more dogs, I really miss those times .
There's some folks, West & North of me aways. That still use sighthounds. None around my area. There's also a bunch of folks, SE of me. Who only use trailhounds.
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Badgers; Spotted a pair of coyotes, awhile back. Frolicking 400yrds out[new hunt area]. Bro & I didn't have permission yet, so we just watched them. There was an [active] Badger den, close by[same field].
Heading out this am, looking for coyote. Should be productive, winds 15-20, gusts of 30mph.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 13, 2006 07:30 AM
Smoke em',
You are right. Tracking coyotes can be very rewarding and it is a lost art. My compliments to you for being resourceful enought to participate in such a rewarding form of hunting.
Guys, when you are tracking on full snowcover with full white camo, concealment is not an issue. Sound and wind are. Each time you jump that coyote he will USUALLY be closer than the time before.
My dad and I hunted them with a .22 rimfire in the late 70s and we killed quite a few of them by walking them down. It wears them out mentally to be pursued like that and each time they are jumped, they are closer than the time before. Most coyotes simply cannot handle it mentally to be pursued like that and they panic and make foolish mistakes. I have started out early in the morning on a fresh track that is moving against the wind and usually kill them before sun down with a .22 rimfire Winchester model 61. Tracking and walking a coyote down in snow is truly hunting in every sense of the word.
Once you've done it, it's easy to understand how wolves displace coyotes.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted January 13, 2006 08:34 AM
To do an all day track I'd have to spend a week ahead of that getting permission from all the farmers. Some small chunks of ground are only 40 acres... I know farmers in my area that own well over a thousand acres, 40 acres here, 120 acres there, etc. When the state laid out the farms here they did it in 40 acre chunks. One of my great grandfathers got 3 chunks, 120 acres, another one of my great grandfathers got 4 chunks, or 160 acres. My grandfathers, when they expanded the farms, bought the neighbor farms when they went up for sale, one of my grandfathers ended up with nearly 1000 acres in one chunk. That's very rare now, but back then farms grew this way because there wasn't a good way to farm land that wasn't together (ie trucks to more farm equipment). Today however farmers buy land wherever. One guy named Rod near me had farms in Missouri, Iowa, and Minnisota. I don't know how much ground he owned and rented, but I do know one chunk of it was 40 acres (a relative of mine bought it from him and then Rod rented it from him).
I mention Rod because he's now serving a life sentence for shooting another farmer between the eyes with a 22 who he'd been fueding with over some ground (160 acres, I can't remember?).
Anyway, back to the original point, down here in the southern 1/3 of Iowa, nowadays, you would either have to know all of the property owners, even the ones out of state, to have permission to track the coyote across their farms or you'd have to tresspass.
So I think this is why the art of tracking coyotes is dying, or had died, in my area. Plus I can't imagine walking hours much less a day through thorns, creeks, steep ridges, thick timber, etc that a coyote would be able to lope through that I would have to struggle to get through or go around. Call me lazy but I'd rather call the coyote to me, make him to the hard walking.
Which is probably another reason why trackers are a dying breed, too many of us are too "lazy" to take it up.
later,
scruffy
[ January 13, 2006, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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smoke em
Knows what it's all about
Member # 785
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posted January 13, 2006 01:02 PM
WileyE, Nice to hear from someone that is like me(not that it is good).It is hard to relate what track hunting is unless you have done a lot of it.Most of the coyotes I track hunt could be killed with a shotgun,probably about 75%.I do kill quite a few with the shotgun but love rifles.I think I have missed more because I carried my rifle than the other way around.Spot and stalk is great when the opportunity arises but does not occur as often as it did 30 years ago.
I hear hunters talk about not shooting at anything over 200 yds. I don't quite understand that thinking because there would be alot of missed opportunities. If they are standing still with a set of sticks under you rifle and acceptable wind ,400 yds is a good shot. Used to be a hope and an joke until I switched up to better scopes, rifles and practiced at those distances.I used to never shoot at a 400 yd coyote but started seeing it done by others with consistent success and changed my expectations.I tend to remain cooler and calmer at distance than when they are getting close.More often I will say "he was way to close and I missed him."
Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006
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