The New Huntmastersbbs!: Coyote Vocals

This is topic Coyote Vocals in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000700

Posted by LKVL (Member # 208) on January 04, 2006, 09:43 AM:

I was sitting here thinking about how when a couple of years ago I was out dying traps and drags for the trapping season. About 1:00 pm a fire truck went down the road with the siren going. After the truck went by I heard some coyotes I would guess about 30 - 40 yards from me. Since it was tall weeds there was no way for me to see them. The coyotes didn't cut loose with howls.....just some wining barks. So when you guys use coyote vocals what type of sounds are making during the different times of the day. Most of my luck with useing coyote howlers seems to come from barking with it.

[ January 04, 2006, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: LKVL ]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 04, 2006, 12:27 PM:

LKVL,

Pre 1960, some folks out in East Central Nebraska. Used old [hank-crank] Roller siren. To locate the coyotes [getting them to howl along].

Around here, they'll occasionally respond to only the "wail" feature on an emergency vehicle.

Also, I can't get them to howl back. Unless it's right @ dusk. Haven't tried it @ dawn.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 04, 2006, 01:40 PM:

I'll refer you to Master Higgins as he has had vast experience with this very topic...

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 04, 2006, 02:01 PM:

I agree with Cdog911. Master Higgins, are you there?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 04, 2006, 02:39 PM:

He may be busy planning his trip to Denver, don't know?

But, I think he will say that barks will not be effective, unless the coyote starts barking at you. And, I would want to know why you are asking the question? Just fooling around, or are you intending to be actively huting coyotes when you are using vovalizations? What do you mean when you refer to "having luck" when using a howler? Are you saying that you succeed in getting a vocal response, or you get a coyote to come to your stand?

As far as type of howl, I am quite sure he will say, and I agree, that you should use a very non threatening howl. A female invitation, lost pup, lonesome howl. These are the types of howls that should bring a coyote within range, but they may approach the stand completely silent. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, that is by far the most common response. They don't "answer" they just approach the source of the howl. Once they arrive, they may become more vocal, depending on circumstances.

I don't think time of day has a lot of effect, except that a group assembly or group yip howl may be very effective, first light. Otherwise, stick to the interrogation howls, female invitation and especially, lost pup, regardless of the season.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 04, 2006, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 04, 2006, 05:27 PM:

I've been practicing the howl that starts low, slowly rises, then falls off. If memory serves it was the lonesome howl.

What do the female invitation and lost pup howls sound like?

Does one of them start with a medium pitch, rises a bit, and then the howl abruptly stop? I've seen that howl used on a DVD and wondered what it was??? [Confused]

Lost pup?

later,
scruffy

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 04, 2006, 05:43 PM:

Scruffy

It sounds to me like you are describing a challenge or warning howl. I've never had any luck initiating that howl. But if one throws it at me, it really pisses them off if I give it back to them.

Posted by LKVL (Member # 208) on January 04, 2006, 07:14 PM:

I 've seen first hand the effects of coyote vocalization. I was lucky enough to be with Howl Master Higgins in AZ. during the month of May and got some great film footage. Out of 4 stands I saw 3 coyotes. Riches Howls were very effective.
I have also seen responses here (in MN) when using a howler. Using a Power Howler seemed to work best to get coyote to answer. Since most of my calling is done between late winter and until the crops get to high in the fields to see the coyotes it just makes sense that coyote sounds would be effective with or without the use of a dog for a decoy.

The reason I'm asking about sounds is how natural is it for coyotes to howl during the day?????????Around here I can't recall ever hearing a coyote howl that wasn't provolked in some way.

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 04, 2006, 07:40 PM:

Two Winters ago. I took my vid camera & rifle out hunting coyote & taking some footage.

The last coyote, I spotted was laying out a couple hundred yrds off of the roadway. Time of day was around 1500hrs[still plenty of daylight]. I parked down the road past him, a 1/4 mile.

I slowly walked down the road, until I was even/parallel with him. Sat down on the snow covered road[I'm wearing my "Whites"].

Anyway, the only call I had in my pocket, was a mouse squeeker. SOOooo, I made 2 barks & 1 howl with it[very high pitched] [Eek!]

.

The coyote, gets up, looking my way[he can't make me out]. He walks farther maybe 50yrds deeper into the section.

Sits down facing me & barked 2x, followed by a "crowing" type howl. We did this back & forth for quiet awhile. I was so amused by this reaction. I never shot @ him...The experience was [Priceless] [Cool]

BTW, I mounted the squeeker voice box. Into a small piece of hollowed out dowel rod. So I could blow through it. Rather than squeeze a bulb.

[ January 04, 2006, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 04, 2006, 07:46 PM:

L-

In Higgins' absence, I'll do my best to relay what the master has told and shown to me over the years. And I'll expect corrections when he gets home. (I'll let him know to check it out when I see him Sunday in St. Francis.)

As far as coyotes vocalizing in the daytime...

In my area (northcentral KS) you just won't hear those tight-lipped little buggers in the daytime. They're not all that talkative at night thru the fall, but things start picking up about now, drop- off to near zero during the denning phase, then really ramp up when those youngsters get out of the den and chime in with the alphas and betas each night. I also think that howling rates are directly proportional to density in that higher density populations tend to compel the coyotes to talk more as a means of maintaining spatial distribution - one of the main uses of howling in their world.

Recently we had a discussion about howling and although some guys said that they would often answer their lone howls, I said that mine do not. Last month, with snow on the ground, I called at night and got into a rather lengthy discussion with a dog to the southwest that I worked into an approach and a missed shot. [Frown]

But, they just don't answer in the daytime. So, halfway, I stand corrected. [Smile]

As far as which sounds are which, Rich only promotes the use of the lone howl, the ki-yi, the bark, the threat/ challenge bark and the lost puppy howl.

Lone howl - starts low and rises to a flat long howl. Some guys take it up fast and drop it off slowly over 8-10 seconds. And some guys will accompany this howl with a bark prior and a couple barks between, called heralding barks.

Now, last year, whether it's correct or not, I had another guy that uses a lot of howling demonstrate what he offered as a lone howl and a female invitation howl. The lone howl went up then stayed flat, ending on the high note.

The FIH started low, went up to the high pitch, then dropped down slowly (What I have always thought ws the lone howl.) Even I'm confused. [Confused]

In any event, with lone howls, always, and I mean ALWAYS use higher pitches to sound like a young or female coyote.

The ki-yi is made by just sounding like a dog that just had its tail rolled onto by a rocking chair. Yike-yike-yike. Do it with dispair and desparation. This is a great call to use along with howls to sound like a young coyote that sounded off and got his butt busted. Or, after you shoot one of a pair-+. It won't always stop any runners, but sometimes it does. Better than taking hail Mary's at afterburners.

Bark - to a coyote, the bark means STOP. It's relatively non-confrontational and generally won't make them turn and bust out. My best application is to use it to , uh-hum, stop the coyote. [Wink]

When I see one coming in, I get my rifle on him, get into postion and when he crosses the red line and he's in my high-percentage shot zone, I give a soft, gutteral "woof". Almost every time, that coyote will skid to a stop and, for some reason, turn sideways to me. Makes for great broadside shots. I've only had one out of about thirty this year that didn't do that, and she wasn't running in. Standing straight on to me. So, I shot her in the eye. (Ouch)

Rich showed me his lost puppy howl, and (I think) it goes like this. Start medium pitch, climb up rapidly like a high-pitched lone howl, then slide down the other side, As you near the bottom at the end, give 'er a little up tick with a push.

Challenge - give a couple sharp barks, then follow with a wavering wobbling high pitched giverhell type of sound, followed by a couple more barks. Repeat, Repeat again. If you ever get busted and one does this to you, it's like the smell of marijuana - you never forget it and recognize it right away the next time around. Like Tim said, never intitate this exchange. Or the coyote in front of you will simply get up and leave. If and when they do this, I let them commit by letting them sound off three or four times. Then, I get ready and as soon as they start in on me with the next one, I do it right back on top of their's. Man, that really pisses them off. I've not had much luck at bringing them in when they start with me like this, but it sure is fun to screw with them. [Smile]

The denning and pup-rearing time of the year is a great time to go out and practice your howling on the real deal. Locate a den, engage them and try different stuff. Watch their reactions and learn. I had one pack my first year howling that actually got more and more willing to play with me, the more I went out. As long as I didn't give them a negative experience, they were more than willing to answer me back and approach. Learned a lot from those coyotes until they suddenly disappeared. [Confused]

Higgins can sure tell you more than I can. That guy has a brushy tail hidden somewhere. [Smile]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 06, 2006, 11:09 AM:

I believe that wiley E is busy calling coyotes down in kansas right now. Here is something he posted in another thread on this board that is worth repeating.

posted January 03, 2006 06:14 PM

"Why do I use coyote vocalizations over a rabbit scream for THESE coyotes in THIS area?

First let me address why I use a coyote howl.

1. Sell the idea that a coyote is there.

If the howl is followed by rabbit screams it ***** the idea that a coyote is there that is killing a rabbit which is more natural than just a plain rabbit assuming both sounds sound realistic.

Keep in mind that the sounds not only have to be natural sounding to a coyote but they also have to be coming from a place that appears natural to a coyote.

2. I howl because I can locate coyotes by their response to my howl IF they feel like responding.

3. Cover more distance due to volume of howling vs. distress calls.

In few situations can you go wrong throwing out a howl that sounds natural and non confrontational.

In most healthy coyote populations, 70% are young of the year coyotes. Depending on the calling pressure in your area and the time of year, it's a fairly safe bet that this segment of the coyote population will respond very well to rabbit distress calls even if they don't sound totally natural. The more natural the sound, the more coyotes will be fooled into it. The more rabbits they are eating in the area, the more they will be fooled into it.

Every coyote has a different level of curiousity and a different level of caution to every sound depending on their life's experiences.

It goes without saying that an area of high calling competition with adult coyotes and unnatural sounding calls, your chances are going to be greatly reduced by using the same sounds as everyone else. In contrast, in an area of heavy coyote populations with limited hunting pressure and a high percentage of young coyotes, and natural sounding calls, your success will be greatly improved.

Keep in mind that there is some days where nothing works because the coyotes are simply not responsive. The next day the same coyote that didn't raise his head for you today might come charging in. Don't be too quick in determining a reason for a lack of success.

There is no way I can tell you exactly what to do without knowing your situation. All I can do is tell you the variables to consider in making your own decision. As I said, I don't think you can go wrong in most situations by combining a couple natural sounding howls with a natural sounding rabbit distress call or other distress calls. If you think you have a lot of competition using rabbit distress calls and the coyotes tend to be wary, go to a different prey sound.

There's no hard fast rules because the factors that influence success vary from situation to situation and from area to area. Learning the coyote behavior variables from area to areas is the key to success in those areas.

The key thing is that your sounds appear natural to a coyote. A coyote is never going to shy away from their own language if it sounds natural but they may shy away from a rabbit sound that doesn't sound totally natural if they have had a bad experience with that same sound before. The more natural the sound, the better your success will be.

I have blown a perfect sounding rabbit call (PERFECT TO ME) and watched a coyote turn and run like I had dumped hot water on him. He was coming to the howl and my partner was convinced that this coyote needed to hear a rabbit call, so I blew one and he'd obviously been called, shot at, and missed with a similar sound.

In that situation, I probably would have killed that coyote with the same howls I was using and a bird distress sound of some type.

If you are not confident in the sound of your howls, use distress calls only. You don't want to blow your chances with a good distress sound by ruining it with an unnatural sounding howl.

The individual coyote is the judge of what sounds natural. Not you, not me, not any other caller but a coyote. I guarantee you that some of the worst howls will call coyotes readily. Some of the most natural sounding vocalizations I have heard wouldn't carry 1/2 mile. The coyote is the judge of what sounds good not any human.

Some calling contests have a contest between callers blowing their calls judged by other callers. I always thought that was funny because what sounds great to me might sound like crap to a coyote."
-------------
Anyone who is really serious about becoming the best coyote caller that they can be, should read the above quote several times. The information in that quote is priceless.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0