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Author Topic: A few pics 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 01, 2006 10:48 AM                   Coyote den they used, to hunker-in during a snow storm. My other snow pics, didn't turn out. [ January 01, 2006, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ] Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 01, 2006 10:50 AM                   Same den as above. I always stick my face down into the opening. To inhale the lovely scent of coyote! LOL! [ January 01, 2006, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ] Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 01, 2006 10:51 AM                   Timber, Dad's trailhound "Pokey" pushed a 47lb female coyote out of. Coyote fought two of our toughest Greyhounds, seperately @ different times during the chase. She kicked their hiney's big-time [one on one] . I killed her with #4 Buffered Buck 12ga. When Pokey, had her bayed against a barbed fence. Circa; 1970. [ January 01, 2006, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ] Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 01, 2006 10:52 AM                   Red Fox holed up in this piece of Galvinized culvert. That was laying in the ditch. The Red used it for a wk or so. To weather the wind & snow. Checked it the other day, no sign whats so ever. [ January 01, 2006, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ] Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 01, 2006 10:53 AM                   My old hunting jaunt, NorEast of M'town. [ January 01, 2006, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ] Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Jrbhunter PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL Member # 459 posted January 05, 2006 06:24 AM                      Very interesting photos... never seen a coyote den in the open on flat ground. Impressive! Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 06, 2006 01:54 PM                   Jason, That den was on a 20 degree grade hillside. Most of the dens I run across in the field. Are generally on a steeper hillside. Whether I see any sign or not. I'll often stick my face in the hole. To see who's been there recently, LOL! Sometimes, I disgust myself hole huffer-dogs Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged smoke em Knows what it's all about Member # 785 posted January 12, 2006 04:27 PM                   Did you catch the coyotes going in and out of the den? Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 12, 2006 05:16 PM                   No. Over the yrs, I've came across quiet a few [non-active] dens. Where coyote[s]have weathered out a storm [in]. This pic, is just one of them. They'll often use field drive culverts, as well. So far this crunchy snow, has greatly diminished my kill #'s. Now, there is no snow. Very hard to spot them. But I keep going. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged smoke em Knows what it's all about Member # 785 posted January 13, 2006 03:45 AM                   i2dogs, I kind of wondered because I so seldom track a coyote into a hole.Generally cover is a washout tile intlet, culvert or most likely deep brush.Just a few times a hole in a terrace.Have kind of come to believe denning goes on predominantly raising pups.(naturally duh) only once I remember coming across a den that was being actively used in the winter,it was huge and had continuous activity in and out.Hunting pressure might force them to use dens more than they do here.Or like you say weather.The activity I see at these kind of dens is normally semi hibernated badgers who are not ready to share their home.Under some conditions it is difficult to tell the difference in tracks.Had a good old friend who was a great solo hunter tracker spotter who always had a problem with the difference.I saw you wrote about using dogs, is much of that going on where you hunt? Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged Rich Higgins unknown comic posted January 13, 2006 05:36 AM              I've read several times that coyotes don't enter the dens after the pups leave them. However I did read that an early 19th century explorer on the great plains referred to them as "burrowing dogs" I'll bet that would contribute to that. There is that "Never" and "Always" thing again. On my video I have a segment on a "Denning Bitch" that cleaned out or dug three dens in a small triangle and did her bonkers routine when we set up a stand within 30 yards of it. That was on Dec. 8. "Always and Never". IP: Logged Wiley E Knows what it's all about Member # 108 posted January 13, 2006 07:10 AM                    smoke em', I'm with you on this. I have never seen coyotes use holes in the winter time unless they were being pushed by hunters or severely manged. Coyotes seldom use dens in the winter. You are right about trickle tubes or culverts. They know where every one of them is. If coyotes used holes, they'd dive for them when aerial hunted. They seldom do. They'd rather brush up. I've also seen them dive under the snow when chased by snowmobiles. Good post Smoke em'. Sorry 2 dogs, I'm not buying it. Coyote den holes also tend to be oval, not round and they are usually found in pastures, not fields. I can see coyotes using a den hole under extreme cases of whether or being pushed but not an round hole in a field. No offense but I think you found a badger hole. ~SH~ [ January 13, 2006, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ] Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted January 13, 2006 08:10 AM                       I'll tell you one thing. Out here, it's hard to guess what first dug the hole and what might now be using that hole. Recycled. One thing I always heard was that coyotes prefer the side of a north facing hill? I also heard they dig their den in the biggest patch of prickley pear cactus that they can find? I don't know a heck of a lot about dens since I don't hunt at all during denning season. I run across more fox dens than coyote. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 13, 2006 08:39 AM                   Wiley, I'm not selling, LOL! We have groundhogs & Badgers a plenty in Iowa. No doubt, coyotes take over their den's more often than not[opportunists, eh] . BTW, most of the coyote dens, I come across. Are on a Southerly facing hillside[Sunny side, no wind in their face/ears]. When, I have a doubt as to "who's" living there....If intersted. I'll huff that hole. I suppose, some doubt. That Red Fox will actually use a ditch culvert[across the road from an active farm]. As a permenant den, to rear their pup's, LOL! seen that,as well ...Hmmm, can't be true! Never....say never. edited; I used my boot, size 12". To rough estimate the opening size of that den. Over 12" wide & 16" tall. [ January 13, 2006, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ] Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted January 13, 2006 09:08 AM                       When I come across a hole that size, those general dimensions, is to consider if there might be ground squirrels or PD in the area? If so, I generally consider it a badger hole. I have read accounts of people pouring a little gasoline down holes with a funnel and hose. They say there is no telling what's coming out, but they WILL come out. Never tried it. Good hunting. LB edit: looking at 2dogs first picture, I'm no expert, that's for damned sure, but the earth appears too evenly packed down for a badger hole? They usually shovel the dirt in one direction, but the dirt in the above pic looks like it has been trampled down quite a bit, like it is being used. Just asking, Scott. You obviously know a lot more about these things than I do? [ January 13, 2006, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ] -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 13, 2006 09:27 AM                   Leonard, Funny thing is some of the coyote den's I've seen have most of the dirt, straight out from the entrance. Some spread out, like the above pic. Red Fox in these parts, are notorious for large soil mounds. As well as, mutiple holes. With an occasional [inverted vent hole]...What's that about! . I've huffed them too . My wife's cousin, has some pics. Of a litter of Red Fox. That were raised right across the road from their farm. In a Galvanized field drive culvert. I'll ask if she'll e-mail one or two of them...Then post'em here. My county has few pastures. The farms that do have them, are generally right up in the farmsted. Usually just a 1/2-1 acre. We also have little to no brushpiles, or other cover. Mostly just rolling cropland. They make do, with what they have...eh. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 13, 2006 12:10 PM                   Well, forget about the Red Fox pics. My wife's cousin[self proclaimed photgrapher/batch!]. I told her off, back when my MIL was dying[she butted in, to run things] . I would've called her into the street. If she were a male. Anyways, my wife said she "***** " her pics...WooOOOOooo . Unlikely I'll get one from her. Asked Ma to ask her . Not gonna happen . Need more anger management class's-dogs Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged smoke em Knows what it's all about Member # 785 posted January 13, 2006 01:20 PM                   2 dogs ,I hope you do not feel ganged up on, but do you claim to be able to smell the difference between a badger,coon, possum ,fox or coyote? . As far as dens in open fields, do you assume all or most are coyotes or fox. Badgers do dig multiple holes in search of squirrels,mice, gophers, etc. I have farmed a large farm for 40 years and have seen hundreds and hundreds of dens in fields but never(I know never say never) seen a coyote associated with even one. . [ January 13, 2006, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: smoke em ] Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 13, 2006 01:43 PM                   smoke em, LOL! Gang ****, not gonna happen to me [you'd have to kill me first ]. Yup, I believe "most" coyote dens in my area. Were initally, dug by...Red Fox, Badgers & Groundhogs. A coyote worth it's salt will/can kill'em all[takes a little more commitment for Badgers, eh]. Obviously, coyotes are opportunists[let the other animal...dig my den ]. Gotta love'em, for their wit. Next time, I take a pic of a den. I'll show my boot next to it. For size comparison. As that pic, apparently is decieving ...huh. Never smelled a Badger, close up. Huffed plenty-o-coyotes & Red's though. I had a couple snow pics of that same den during that same wk. After a snow storm. They were snow pics. There was a mess of coyote tracks going in/out of the den. Unfortunately the snow pics, didn't turn out. I huffed the den that day[after the storm], strong odor of coyote. Soon the snow started to melt. Went back a couple days later. A fresh inch of snow on the ground. One coyote came up by the den opening...paused. Then moved on. I've seen this same scenario many times during snowfly. Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged smoke em Knows what it's all about Member # 785 posted January 13, 2006 01:47 PM                   oops, you had already answered my pre edit post, thanks for the clarification. Posts: 43 | From: midwest | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged Rich Higgins unknown comic posted January 13, 2006 04:02 PM              2dogs, I have 2 dozen dens on video for just this reason. People can only tell you how and where a coyote will claim or construct a den according to their personal observations in their area. I have seen people post that a coyote will den in as remote a place as possible, as far from humans as possible. In reality they will den where ever they feel comfortable. Last year I videoed pups playing at a den on a hillside in full of an entire neighborhood. I videoed a den in an empty lot surrounded on three sides by the backyards of homes. I learned of the den from one of the homeowners who fed roadkill to the coyotes on a regular basis. The den was not excavated under any of the palo verde or mesquite in the area, but straight down into the ground in an open patch in full view of many of the homes. I have video of several dens that look like the photo you posted. On the other hand I found a den five or six miles from the nearest house, in the side of a wash under palo verde roots and I was amazed that a coyote could squeeze it's shoulders through that tiny rabbit hole. Some of the dens are multiples, dug within a few feet of each other and all used simultaneously. Some are singles and used exclusively through the entire denning season. They vary in size and shape. Like most things coyote. IP: Logged 2dogs Knows what it's all about Member # 649 posted January 13, 2006 04:11 PM                   Yup, 10-4 Rich. Things are different, but still the same. When a guy/gal, thinks they've seen it all or have it figured out. Here comes a new one...duh, LOL! I don't know what its like outside my area frankly,[personal experience, I'm talking]. Education just isn't the same as experience, IMO. When I was young, I thought I really had something figured out. Nope, I was wrong . Haven't tried it since Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Rich Higgins unknown comic posted January 13, 2006 04:20 PM              This subject reminds me of "official" descriptions of coyote scat. The prestigious Arizona Sonora Desert Museum published a small book entitled "Desert Dogs- Coyotes, Foxes, & Wolves" In the chapter "Read the Signs" they show pictures of the tracks and scat of each of the animals along with a description of each. They describe the coyote scat as "long cord with a "Dairy Queen" twirl-tail 3/4" in diameter or larger omnivorous diet; hair, seeds They then show a long hairy turd with a cute little twirl at the tapered end. I've video'ed scat for the same reason I video'ed the dens. In the real world they are just far more varied than that. Mounds of pink plop near watermelon fields Mounds of orange plop near cantalope fields Black squirts near dead piles. Green mounds of mesquite seeds at all times of year. Mounds of grasshopper legs. And my favorite-- a mound of yellow styrofoam meat tray with 18 inches of cellophane trailing off. IP: Logged Wiley E Knows what it's all about Member # 108 posted January 13, 2006 05:35 PM                    Rich, Don't confuse the issue here. The issue is whether or not the above pictured hole DURING THE WINTER is a coyote den not where coyotes will den during DENNING SEASON. How many coyotes do you see using a den hole IN THE WINTER Rich??? Not many I presume. 2 dogs, I do not dispute that red fox use culverts or holes YEAR ROUND. Red fox, particularly in coyote country, use holes quite readily. We see fox laying by holes all the time and dive into them as we fly over. The only issue of contention here is whether or not the above pictured den IN THE WINTER is a coyote den. Coyotes seldom use holes outside of denning season. That's just a fact. Iowa is no different than Eastern SD and we have guys flying coyotes virtually every day that's fliable. We seldom see them go in a hole even when they are pursued. They'd rather crawl in a culvert or brush up somewhere. Yes, once pressured they do ocassionally crawl in holes but the only time of year they use them readily is during the denning season. You are right Leonard, after thinking about it, usually badgers don't pack the ground much unless they are denning. This would leave me to believe that the above hole was a fox den in coyote country. I'd bet a pretty penny that coyotes are not using it. It's not the right shape, it's not in the right place (tillable field), and it's not the right time of year. Sorry 2 dogs, I'm still not buying that the above pic is a coyote den. ~SH~ [ January 13, 2006, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ] Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged Rich Higgins unknown comic posted January 13, 2006 06:20 PM              Scott, the issue is already confused. We were discussing den shape and location. Coyotes will construct and use round hole dens. The video I'm sending you next week contains a segment on a "Denning Bitch" who cleaned out or dug three dens within 5 and 10 feet of each other, Tracks and drag sign said that she was entering all three often. This was Dec.8. IP: Logged

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