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Author
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Topic: what would you do?
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted December 12, 2005 04:50 PM
If you are calling, with a partner or not, and you have a coyote come in, you take the shot but you now have a coyote that is spinning, yipping, howling, carrying on, do you take another quick follow up shot or do you let the coyote carry on, as long as it's not escaping, with hopes that the wounded coyote might call in more coyotes to the set?
I was witness to this twice this last weekend. Both times, the first coyote that came was shot, but not DOA, but it wasn't escaping, and soon after the first shot, more coyotes came to the set. So, I actually filmed the one set, and we had 3 more coyotes come after the first was shot on that set. SO, in your opinion, would that yipping, howling wounded coyote need to be "edited" out if the video were to be sold to the public?
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 12, 2005 06:13 PM
If I were selling the video, yes - I would edit it out. It's an unfortunate but real part of calling predators. It happens, but I have no respect for anyone who would use it as a legitimate and intentional technique.
Predator callers understand it when it happens. The non-hunting public does not, and many of those ppl are non-hunters, not anti-hunters. But it wouldn't take much to knock them off the fence the other way.
Having said that, I've seen it work as well. Very effectively, I might add. But, I still can't make myself liver shoot a coyote when I've got a perfectly good howler around my neck that can do the same thing. I now use rounds that leave large sewable holes. My newbie partner had some trouble understanding why I cavitate my coyotes. I told him I'd rather sew one up then chase it down any day.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted December 12, 2005 08:09 PM
We certainly weren't trying to "use it as a technique", and even I don't really enjoy seeing them suffer any more than necassary. I've chased my fair share of wounded coyotes to know that if I am a shooter, I shoot until I see dead coyote!
I can't recall ever seeing this happen like it did this weekend, and I have used the hurt dog sound many times after killing the first to arrive, but I can honestly say that I have never had late comers come as fast as they did this weekend, after shots were fired!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 12, 2005 08:20 PM
I've stalked in on many pairs. When I tagged one, I'd stick with him until he's down for good.
Two winters ago, I stalked in on a pr. Shot the closest one...a long-shot. He took to spinning/pronking, as there were 5 other coyotes [hunkered in] around the visible pair. They all popped up out of the snow & commenced to fly away. So many targets, so little time.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 13, 2005 04:27 AM
Let em' spin... they only last a brief moment when shot in the vitals anyways. Deer hunters do it, elk hunters do it, turkey hunters do it.... nothing un-natural or "Anti-hunting" about an animal being wounded for a few seconds after being shot.
If it turns your stomach to see an animal scream and quiver briefly after absorbing a round you shouldn't be in the woods. I stopped watching hunting videos and shows (Mainly deer) when they quit showing kills... if you're ashamed of it then don't try to sell it to me.
We all do the best we can, I don't think anyone is elbow shooting coyotes intentionally and the general public understands that as well.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 13, 2005 04:38 AM
Jason, you've seen my shots ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
elbow gut-shooter kirby
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 13, 2005 06:41 AM
Way back when (in my school and college days... long time ago...) I wrote short stories. When editing the rough draft and subsequent drafts I worked over every sentance and paragragh asking "Why is it here?" "What does it add?" "Is this clear or can it be interpreted differently/wrong?"
So in your decision on whether to leave it or edit it out I'd ask yourself those questions.
And when answering them you often get different answers based on what audience is answering them. For seasoned predator hunters watching your production for it's entertainment value the answers might all be favorible to keeping the scene.
But when you consider the new predator hunter who is buying the video to learn how to call coyotes, watching the tape for it's educational value, the answers to editing questions might be completely different.
And then what if little 5 year old Jane and Johnny see the tape with their dad or uncle?
It all comes down to who your audience is. Unfortunately the wider the audience the more editting out you end up doing trying to make everyone happy with your production. And in the end you can't please everyone. And at that point you decide who you want you audience to be and market plainly to them.
Like maybe have the scene cut out of your standard tape, but then also have an "uncensored" or "uncut" (or whatever they are calling it now) version with scenes you don't want Jane and Johnny to see, and put that on the cover, "Mature Audiences Only" or something.
Just thinking out loud. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 13, 2005 11:04 AM
Good idea, scruffy. I guess production costs would be the big determinant there. Two products versus just the one.
TR,
I didn't mean to imply that you and your buddies were intentionally winging coyotes as a "technique", but I do know that there are those that have in the past.
I have no gripes against impact shots and, like you, quit watching when you saw the guy pull the trigger, then in the next scene he's kneeling next to his trophy. Not a very realistic representation of what happens in the real world. But including it for the effect it will have on revenue is, IMO, in poor taste. That's just me.
Yes, I have hooked a few like that and regard them to be truly unfortunate events. It happens. But I would never personally do that to a coyote just to get another shot at another coyote.
If it were to be included in an educational video, I could support its use as a way to demonstrate what unfortunately happens at times, then to address how the hunter should most effectively deal with the situation. In other words, educational but not for entertainment. Othersise, it may end up being your video that gets shown in a legislative committee meeting where they're debating the merits of recreational hunting of predators versus the merits of just letting the state's own professional licensed hunters handle them humanely and within the context of state mandated guidelines for humane harvest. You can deny that such a thing could ever happen, but doing so would be a classic case of whistling past the graveyard. I just don't see this country turning so sharply back to the right in the next few years that we should think we can just do as we like and to hell with the left. Like them or not, they're there and we must police our own actions respective to how the public may or may not perceive us.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 13, 2005 11:33 AM
Interesting opinions.
Personally, I've watched quite a few predator vid's. None bothered me in the least. If the concern is with the "anti's or non-hunters" Why are all these folks making/selling video's.
As anyone of them, involve killing an animal.
These same people that are [border-line or anti], will use, say, do...Whatever it takes to stop hunting/trapping altogether. As they have plenty of sympathetic cohorts in Government.
I don't cater to the likes of any of them, regardless.
edited; because of anger management
[ December 13, 2005, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 13, 2005 11:47 AM
Who went to the NTA convention in Goshen Indiana this year? Well, I was there and the following event took place before my very eyes.
I'm standing at a booth talking to a friend of mine that owns a trap company, he makes a product very similar to the "Lil' Griz" that is commonly used for coon nowadays. He is giving demonstrations to passersby and his video is playing on a monitor about 6' away. A short portly woman walks up to the table and asks me "How do these traps keep from hurting an animal?"
Hesitantly, I give her the basic rundown of how the trap works humanely and she begins watching his video where he releases numerous coon unharmed. The woman then walks 20' down the isle and comes to a booth where another company is selling coon lure. They too have a video playing, advertising their product, with a small group of people around it. This time the video shows four small coon staked to the ground in a muddy drainage ditch. The coon are looking up at the camera for a moment until the shooting begins... that's right, they dispatched all four coon right there on film.
The woman says "Oh My" and walks toward the door.
Now what good did the dispatching of those coon do for the product being advertised? Very very very little. A trapper buying coon lure wants to see a hord of coon in a gang set... he doesn't need to see them dispatched on film. A non-trapper certainly doesn't want to see it!
This is just common sense as you guys have stated above. BUT, if I buy a hunting video I want to see the climactic event that ends the chase. I want to see a kill. (And I want to see their misses too)
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted December 13, 2005 05:18 PM
I knew you weren't implying that Cdog, heck the rancher that was doin' the shooting isn't a good enough shot to hit them solid at 15 yards, let alone wing'em on purpose!! As I was filming, I really had no idea where he hit the coyote. (Anyone that has tried to film is well aware that you simply don't see everything that is happening around you, because when conditions are so that you have to look through the view finder, you can't see much else!) So, I assumed that it didn't go any where. BUT it did go down the hill about 40 yards into a hole. Luckfully we were able to reach it and pull it out, without digging, and it was dead by then. The bullet had gone low, took out both front legs and the lower chest!
Luckfully, teh editing chore will not be up to me
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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