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Author
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Topic: Shooting aids - do you use them?
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 25, 2005 04:44 PM
What are your opinions of shooting aids like bipods with telescoping legs, shooting sticks, and what I call "hybrids" like the stoney point "bipod" that has telescoping legs but pivots on an axis similar to shooting sticks (I saw the stoney point bipod in one of Leonards pics of Gerald on your recent get together).
Up until last January I was "restless", I shot leaning back against a tree or post to steady my torso with my knees up with my elbow down on my legs (not my knees) for support. Then I received a bipod for my b-day and have since used it as well as some homemade sticks on almost all my stands. Now I'm considering spending the $$$ on a either a stoney point bipod or some longer shooting sticks (my 32" arrow shooting sticks aren't cutting it in steep terain.)
But then last weekend I setup on a steep hillside up against a tree, knees up, and called in a double. It was an eye opener on my response to the situation. Without any "shooting aid" I didn't think of taking a shot or stopping the coyote until his body language said he wasn't coming any closer, which was 28 yards. The coyote was steady as could be in the scope in my sitting shooting stance and the shot was perfect. Then the swing on the other coyote, which I didn't think I could get so I didn't try very hard until I realized I could get it, was smooth and unihibited by sticks or a bipod. One little adjustment (skooch) as I swung and I had him in the scope and steady at under 50 yards loping away out of sight around the hillside into my buddy's shooting area (he got him).
It's amazing how something so simple as a shooting aid has actually hurt me in that I haven't been letting the coyotes come all the way in but instead, because of being more confident in long range shots, taking the first open oportunity to bark the coyote to a stop to take the shot. And then I didn't think I could swing over quick enough on the second coyote of a double (and likely couldn't have if I'd been using a bipod) which cost me a possible double on my new savages first kill.
So what do you guys use or prefer? I know nothing is perfect so what works best for you? I'm still trying to decide what works best for me.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted November 25, 2005 05:14 PM
I use a Versa-pod model 1, while prone [stalkin]. Home-made shoot stix, while callin.
On [flyer's] I free hand'em all, in fire-for-effect mode ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 25, 2005 05:50 PM
I have a Harris on my rifle for prone shots, which ain't that often around here. I use a set of sticks I fashioned myself for all other setups. I too look for the first opportunity to raise the rifle onto the sticks with butt end shouldered, but I rarely take the first shot that's presented, unless nothing else will likely follow. Instead, I select my target and follow him thru the scope until I get the shot I want. My average shot over sticks is under 40 yards - more like 25-30. I figure I just owe my target the most stable/ accurate shot I can muster to ensure a clean kill. Not to say that there are those of you that shoot off-hand that can't offer that, but I admit that I'm not one of them when I'm shooting three digits.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 25, 2005 05:52 PM
Shooting sticks all the way. Stoney Point or home-made. Wouldn't leave the truck without them. Due to lower back problems my stands are made down on both knees, rifle or shotgun on the sticks with the butt of the gun on my hip. If I'm taking an off-hand shot I just let the sticks fall down.
And I ALWAYS try to let the coyote get in close then "Woof" it to a stop for the rifle or roll it with the shotgun. Saves walking.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted November 25, 2005 06:11 PM
I shoot with home made shooting sticks 99% of the time and wouldn't even think of going calling without them.I don't shoot well enough free hand to go without them.Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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predator sniper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 702
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posted November 25, 2005 06:39 PM
Scruffy;
Shooting sticks are gaining lots of popularity now a days, be it varmints, predators, or big game. They give you tons of confidence, a steady shot has now become one less thing to think about when the coyote is coming to your call. I have used every type of material and made dozens of home made shooting sticks. Go to www.predatorsniperstyx.com and see what you think of these shooting Sticks. If you have any questions feel free to ask!
Keep giving those dogs HECK!
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www.predatorsniperstyx.com
Posts: 28 | From: St. Francis, Ks | Registered: Sep 2005
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Bill
Knows what it's all about
Member # 49
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posted November 25, 2005 09:03 PM
The majority of my shooting is done with an adjustable homemade monopod, the rest of the time I'll use shooting sitcks, either homemade or Stoney Point. I used to use a Harris bipod, but found them to be more of a disadvantage than an advantage.
Bill
Posts: 55 | From: Tucson | Registered: Jan 2003
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Todd Woodall
Knows what it's all about
Member # 439
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posted November 25, 2005 09:34 PM
Hey guys,
I have been an avid user of Harris bipods for years. Even though sticks can be more user friendly I always stuck with the bipods. They can be a bit cumbersome if you have to adjust your angle for the shot, but with practice they arent to bad. Now to the down side. My main problem with the bipod is the noise they create. If you get on some rocky ground or any hard uneven surface they "chatter" when the inner springs contanct the outer shell. I love the stability they create, but they have some real down sides that left me looking for something else. I have used stick of all form and fassion, be it a home design or store bought. Nothing really fit the mold I was trying to fill. We recently tried out Predator Sniper Styx and have to say that they are the lightest, quitest and most sturdy we have used. Just the first day we used them Jeff and I both made running shots that required "adjustments" that would have been all but impossible with the old bipods. Predator Sniper puts out a great product at a very good price. No matter what you use these sticks deserve a good look, after all I was the biggest sceptic when I picked them up. I aint old but they make a pretty good walking stick the way they are secured together like they are also. I can see myself stick wipping a snake or two this year.
Take care,
Todd
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Texas Predator Pursuit videos
110 hunts on 2 DVD's
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Posts: 181 | From: Weatherford Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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Doggitter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 489
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posted November 25, 2005 09:50 PM
Boy that's a sore subject here. I tried a shooting sticks made by a buddy years ago and was so floored by how imobile I was. Haven't tried any since, until last winter. Having firgured that a single stick used along with my elbow on my leg would be a good compromise, that's what I've been trying. It's working, somewhat. I cut a dowel in two pieces and I need to cover it somehow. It's noisy and bright. A real thin wall hose or buckskin sock would be good. The aggravation comes from knowing I need to use something with my shooting what it is, but not liking the confinement they present. I don't like them.
Posts: 273 | From: Oregon rain forest | Registered: Dec 2004
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predator sniper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 702
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posted November 26, 2005 09:58 AM
Doggitter;
good post, i am always interested in a hunters take on the use of shooting sticks. What i have found with a Mono pod style of shooting rest is it is hard to stop the side to side movement or swaying. Also the height adjustment is very unfriendly. Shooting Sticks,one a hunter gets used to how they function, are a super shooting aid.
I use handle shooting sticks with my left hand as i shoot right handes. I hold the styx up by the hinge point and operate them, like chop sticks. To move then you can grab the complete unit, pick it and the gun up at the sametime and swing the unit to the target. Or you can do what i call "lift and drag". If the target is to my left, i lift the left leg and drag the right leg to the position of the target, then reposition the left leg to sturdy the rest.
If the target is to my right i use my fingers to lift the right leg, drag the left and position the right leg to it's new position.
If there is grass, sagebrush or other obsicles in they way, i will slightly lift the complete rest swing the bottoms of the legs foreward, still leaving the rifle craddled in the V, clear the obsticle and lower the legs and reposition the legs to the ground.
It is for these reasons that a hunter needs a very light and ridged leg shooting stick. Alot of the segmented leg shooting sticks (bunjee cord take down models) are weak and seem to come apart at the most inconvient moment. And boy do i hate to miss a DOG!
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www.predatorsniperstyx.com
Posts: 28 | From: St. Francis, Ks | Registered: Sep 2005
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predator sniper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 702
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posted November 26, 2005 10:07 AM
Boy in need to type better of proof my posts!
Correction:
I usuely handle shooting sticks with my left hand as is shoot right handed. ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
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www.predatorsniperstyx.com
Posts: 28 | From: St. Francis, Ks | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doggitter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 489
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posted November 27, 2005 12:44 AM
Tell you what PS, I'm not having fun with these stick decisions. A gun mounted bipod seems like a good idea as well as sticks. When I'm using a single I hang the gun off my hand, grabbing the side of the stick and bracing my left arm against my left leg or knee. Makes the situation a lot more stable, without the height adjustment constraints. I'm sure it isn't as steady as a V notch but somewhere between that and nothing. I don't know. Have to give it some more time to decide ya/neah. Thinking I may hinge it to make it more carry-able and add a carry strap. I can make the hinge lock prtty solid.
Posts: 273 | From: Oregon rain forest | Registered: Dec 2004
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 27, 2005 08:57 AM
I use shooting sticks most of the time. Have used a lot of different ones. My favorites, by far, are the ones made by Verne Howey. He makes them with an inverted "U" on the top, that swivels. The fact that they aren't actually "crossed" at all, like most other sticks, makes them noticeably, substantially more stable. And the swiveling top makes them a lot easier to swing a rifle left or right. Just plain a better mousetrap, in my opinion, when compared to crossed, non-swiveling type sticks. Here's a picture of my partner Tim from last weekend with my rifle and sticks.
Like I said, I use sticks most of the time, and have been for about seven or eight years now. My opinion, the first, most important thing to practice, or learn to do when using shooting sticks, is to know how to get rid of them, FAST, when you need to. There's no reason to ever let them get in the way of a shot that they aren't helping on. I just give the rifle a slight lift and the sticks a slight shove, and voila, no more sticks in the way. Works real well for those close in hard chargers.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 27, 2005 07:22 PM
DAA, where could I look into getting a set of those sticks? I can definitely see the panning advantages they would offer. My current set of homemade shooting sticks (I nicknamed "scruffy stix") use a pair of 32" carbon arrows with a rubber hose running across the top that the rifle rests on. It pans very easy, but isn't near as solid as the "U" piece on the set you are using. And it also looks like your set has longer than 32" legs (but I might be wrong). I haven't been able to find longer carbon (or aluminum) shafts in my area longer than 32".
And I will certainly take you advice on practicing getting them out of the way. I haven't done that. I've done alot of practicing shooting off them, but don't feel comfortible getting rid of them as I've never actually done that. And I think that's the piece of the puzzle I've been missing. Last week, no sticks, I made a shot I couldn't have made with sticks. Yesterday with a coyote hung up at 140 yards I'm glad I had the sticks. Before starting calling I tested both sticks and no sticks and was much steadier with the sticks, no matter how I positioned myself supporting the rifle. So when the coyote came in and finally offered a good standing broadside shot at 140 yards I was able, with the aid of the sticks, to put the 22-250 bullet right behind the shoulder (pic in the "live by the sword, die by the sword" thread).
Shooting each way, with and without a shooting aid, has its place. Like everything in coyote calling there are no absolutes. Having the sticks under the rifle with the plan in place to remove them quickly covers both scenerios pretty well.
Now I need to practice getting the sticks out of the way and the rifle up for a shot, and also practice getting the sticks out of the way, getting the rifle out of the way, and getting the shotgun up (if that's possible, getting pretty complicated).
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 28, 2005 06:38 AM
Scruffy, you can find the Howey sticks at AllPredatorCalls.com
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 28, 2005 08:12 AM
Scruffy; Contact your local archery shop & have them save you cut-offs and broken shafts.
2013 (16 & 18) will 'scope into 2213
2213 will 'scope into 2413
2413 will 'scope into 2512
With a little bit of ferrule-tite or epoxy you can splice to whatever length you want as long as you alternate the joints. A couple of casteration bands at the 'V', some camo tape, and maybe some cord wrapped to protect the rifle. If you want to get fancy, you can pick up a couple of rubber blunts for feet.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 29, 2005 12:23 PM
Hey thanks on the location of the sticks DAA and thanks for the shaft info Kokopelli. I'm either going to have to buy some taller sticks or improve what I have (make them taller) so the information you gave me will fix me up! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
later,
scrufy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 30, 2005 07:51 PM
Well, I got to thinking on the on the scoping arrow shafts and came up with a very simple solution to my problem of my homemade sticks being too short. My carbon arrows are 31" long and have the threaded insert on the bottom with field tips screwed in. I took two other carbon arrows (practice arrows with very bad vanes) and cut the arrow down to 8" measuring from the threaded insert. Then I took 2 screws that were #8 x 2" (#8 is the size of the arrow insert threads) and hacksawed the heads off, hand filed to clean up, and cleaned up the threads with a #8 nut. I then put double nuts in the middle of the headless screw to make it have two halves. I then screwed the headless screw down to the nuts into the insert on the 8" carbon arrow shaft. I put automotive vacume caps on the "bottom" end of the carbon shafts for feet and covered the shaft and nuts with a peice of camo duct tape (which I have on the main shooting stick shaft).
Now I can use the shooting sticks just like they are with field tips in the ends, which works 80% of the time. When I need longer 39" shooting sticks, like for setting up on a steep hillside, tall brush where I need to kneel down instead of sit, etc, I unscrew the field tips from the ends of my shooting stick legs, pull my "extensions" from my 6"x10"x6" calling bag, and screw them into the bottom of my shooting sticks. Instant taller sticks!
I still have two more junk arrow shafts, and a hand full of #8" x 2" screws with nuts to build some longer extentions. I need to take some measurements but I'm thinking of making a longer extension set to screw in when shooting from a 5 gallon bucket. I don't often call coyotes from a bucket, but I do often set up for deer from this position and a shooting aid would certainly help.
Thanks for the advice and the ideas to lead me to a very simple solution to my homemade sticks. Now I won't need to buy any for awhile and can continue to use my homemade ones while I decide which, or if, I need to buy some commercial sticks.
Thanks!!!
later,
scruffy
[ November 30, 2005, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Doggitter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 489
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posted November 30, 2005 09:15 PM
That sounds like a terribly dedicated hunter to me. Dedicated to using sticks at least.
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 03, 2005 01:07 PM
yep.
31" set of homemade "scruffy stix", 8" extensions for steep hillsides or kneeling in tall grass for a stand, and 18" extensions for setting up on a 5 gallon bucket (deer hunting) but the 18" are yet unfield tested.
I also threw the harris 1a2-br bipod on the rifle. Before I got the taller shooters ridge bipod last January I always had this little bipod on my calling rifle, not for shooting so much (too short for most prone stands around here, and I rarely setup prone because of the tall ground cover) but to stand the rifle up while I'm getting situated and setup. Keeps the rifle and scope out of the snow and mud and stuff we have this time of year. It's snowing right down now so I went and threw on the old harris br before the pic.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 03, 2005 07:52 PM
scruffy,
my homemade sticks are similar to yours, sans the extensions, and I keep the short bipod on my rifles as well. Like you, they're handy to keep the rifle out of the ground litter when setting up, but I also place the saddle on my sticks right behind the bipod and the pod keeps the sticks from slipping around. So far, it's been a very stable setup.
A lot of guys around here laugh at me using sticks all the time now. Most all of them are deer hunters. Show me a guy that has no use for "shooting aids" and I'll show you someone that just doesn't shoot much (or shoots and misses a lot) . The young guy I've been teaching to call coyotes tagged out on his buck yesterday morning. He told me he had his sticks with him and belly crawled to get a better look at a buck. From behind a row of grass, he saw the buck and chose to take him, but couldn't get a steady position for the shot. Then he remembered his sticks lying on the ground behind him. Twenty seconds later, deer season was over for him. If you know how to work a coyote and not overreact, I don't see too many coyotes that AREN'T shootable while using sticks.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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