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Author
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Topic: Which way to face???
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 10, 2005 11:30 AM
Well, I know this was likely discussed in the past so I did some searches but evidently I'm not using the right search arguments or something. So if there is an thread on this topic where you've already typed up your input please pass along the link. I'm not asking you guys to recreate the wheel that's probably already out there, I'm just not finding it.
So the question is, which direction do you face.
Most articles I've read say "watch upwind", "have the wind in your face", etc. But the few "late season" articles say to look downwind.
I've done both and from my short past experience (little less than a decade of calling) of what's worked and when it's worked, I'm going to setup watching upwind for the late fall through early winter calling to catch the straight on pups. Then mid December after Iowa's 2 weeks of shotgun deer seasons educates every coyote in the state, setup with an open downwind side and watch crosswind and downwind and catch the coyotes trying to get in my scent cone.
Oh, and I often, because of the lay of the land of coverless open fields and thick timber, have an idea of where the coyote will be coming from so I setup downwind of him when I can or crosswind if I can't setup downwind of him.
But you guys have a heck of a lot more knowledge and experience than me. Is the above a good strategy or is there something that by the law of averages will yield more coyotes seen and possibly shot.
This past spring I went calling with a buddy for many stands over a couple weeks. It was eye opener that either of us only saw 50% of the "seen" coyotes called in, meaning if we called in 10 coyotes in 2 weeks I'd see 5 and he'd see 5, with maybe 1 overlap that we both saw. We don't sit shoulder to shoulder but rather apart covering two different vantage points. It really got me thinking how many fruitless "solo" calling stands had coyotes come and leave undetected, and how I might reduce that by positioning and watching in the direction they are more likely to break cover and offer a shot given the time of year and their education level (pre/post 2 week deer gun season...).
later, scruffy [ November 10, 2005, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
-------------------- Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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pup
Knows what it's all about
Member # 90
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posted November 10, 2005 11:51 AM
This has historically produced some heated threads.
I feel that this is really a regional question. Here in the thicker stuff, if your not watching downwind and set up for that you normally won't see a coyote. Never say never with a coyote.
The coyote will use whatever advantage he can to survive. Coming in downwind or using cover to gain the wind advantage is (IMHO) definitely the way I would describe most called coyotes here.
I do remember and agree with SH(Wiley E), in that some areas you find stands that puts the wind in your face and no possible way of getting behind you unless he started there. This normally is in the open country, of the central plains. Az. has in my experience, still set up for the downwind.
Take their nose away from them if at all possible, whether it means facing up or down wind according to situation, and stand allowances, some places you just can't do one or the other.
One tip I learned from Grandaddy , is to allow the coyote some cover to come to the call in, if at all possible. Allow a low spot, thick spot , further away from road etc. , small brushy spot so that he can head downwind with confidence of his senses yet expose himself where you want him to. Grandaddy like to call cats and advised they would come to the edge sooner, if you gave them just a little bit.
Just my thought on a sometimes very heated debate.
later pup
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted November 10, 2005 12:17 PM
A good rule of thumb I try to live by is:
Wind at your back call in a pack,Wind in your face won't see a trace. LOL Good Hunting Chad
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 10, 2005 02:12 PM
Here in western Iowa, if you approach your calling area with wind at your back then you just spooked all of the coyotes out of there. I have to wait until the wind is right, so that I can approach with wind in my face or approach in cross-wind.
-------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 10, 2005 02:40 PM
Rich, I should probably clarify, I always try to approach my calling area with the wind at my face or my side, so I'm on the coyote's downwind side, the coyote is upwind of me. When I posted that above it could easily be taken the wrong way.
So my question is, once you get to your spot, do you sit facing upwind or downwind or crosswind?
I'll be in SW Iowa the 19th with a couple friends. Should be a good time, my last trip there in February we did 3 stands before the wind whipped up above 30mph and I got a decent male on the second stand.
later, scruffy
-------------------- Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted November 10, 2005 04:22 PM
I was kind of pokin fun at some of our past posts here on Huntmasters.Like pup said we've had some pretty fun debates in the past.SH(WileyE) and I have never really agreed on the wind issue.So we've both just agreed to disagree. I sit with the wind at my back most of the time,theory being MOST Coyotes are going to try to circle downwind anyways so I want to have my gun pointed in that direction, that way I will be ready for them.I call very open sage brush/grassy country and very rarely do I get winded.Most of my shot are 80 to 150 yard shots with a few of my shots in the 200-300 yard range.Whatever works for you but for me it is wind at my back.GOOD HUNTING Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 10, 2005 05:20 PM
I don't really see where the heated debate part comes in. If lying on your back, watching straight up is working for YOU, more power to you brother & may the force be wth you.
I usually call with the wind in my face. (Daytime). Depends on the situation. Setting up downwind of the caller & facing crosswind has also been good to me. If I'm useing the bow I may set the caller up to call into the wind, then position myself out in front of the caller facing downwind with a large bush at my back. If the coyote comes in from upwind, once he passes me I can get away with a little more movement drawing the stick. Coyotes with a bow are kind of tough to get. Another example of a situation would be two callers in a truck traveling into the wind. Both sides of the road look good. At the stop, both callers can hike out a couple of hundred yards and call crosswind for an agreed apon time, then meet back at the truck and move up to the next stop. Covers a LOT of ground with sound.
Too many varibles to say "This-is-the-way".
And I don't even want to get into night hunting.
-------------------- And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8237 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 10, 2005 05:41 PM
UTcaller, When calling open country like you describe, I hunt the same way you do. A man can see a coyote coming for a very long ways in some of that open prairie. Here in western Iowa, we have some pretty rugged hills with lots of cedar and brush. Now these rugged hills are just a long narrow strip that runs north and south, along eastern edge of the missouri river. If you have ever driven I-29, south of Sioux City then you probably saw those hills just east of the interstate. Coyotes love to hang out in those hills during the day. The trick is to get set up to call these coyotes without getting busted.
If you look at western Iowa from an airplane, you will see how it is checker boarded with public roads. We have a tough time getting any further than 1/2 mile from a public road. Chances are good that the daytime coyotes will be pretty close to center of the section in thickest cover he can find. You are correct in thinking that a hunter must watch his down-wind side when calling, but we can not approach our known hot spot with wind at our back. I hope that I am making sense here. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
-------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 10, 2005 06:28 PM
Rich,
Central and Northcentral KS are as you describe western IA to be, with mile sections platted out by county roads. Truth be known, because my cover usually consists of isolated pockets surrounded by otherwise useless crop fields, wind direction often takes a backseat to which side of that cover pocket offers enough concealment cover to make a stand without being seen rather than smelled.
If I have the option, I prefer to have the wind in my face. Second best is wind in my ear while making my approach from the direction offering the least likelihood of a coyote approaching thru. That way I can see them if they try to get downwind. If I'll be using howling, I always try to have a view of the downwind and the area to get there since most all my howled coyotes have come from downwind. These basic rules apply to winds under 10-15. If the wind gets to 20mph+ and I just have to get my fix, I'll put the wind at my back so it'll carry my sound and hope for the best as far as scent dispersal goes.
Then again, many of my best honey holes offer only one good approach and I'll call them if I'm in the neighborhood regardless of wind and direction, especially in the early season. In short, not so easy as always in my face or alsways at my back.
-------------------- I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 11, 2005 07:08 AM
Cdog911, I think I know where you are coming from. It is hard to describe in print isn't it? I don't always have a choice in which direction I approach from either. If I must approach with wind at my back, I try to stay to right or left of that little coyote pocket that I intend to call to. I use those useless open fields to make my approach. I know that I will spook a coyote now and then, but it can't be avoided. When using electronic caller I will walk crosswind for 50 yards or so to place the calling machine. The caller ends up being upwind of the honey hole, but cross-wind of fat arsed me.
-------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 11, 2005 08:40 AM
Rich, don't you mean the the call ends up being downwind of the honey hole. For instance the wind is out of the north, you approach from the south into the wind, select where you will be sitting, walk the caller 50 yards to the west (or east), and start the caller, walk back to your spot, sit down, the call is downwind (south) of the honey hole?
Or am I just really confused. If the call was upwind of the honey hole/coyotes (call was north of the coyotes with wind out of the north) wouldn't they smell your "fat arse"?
later, scruffy
-------------------- Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted November 11, 2005 10:30 AM
Scruffy
Would you walk into a stand, with the wind in your face, and then do a 180 and sit down with the wind on your back and the cover that you expected a coyote to be in to your back? At least you would be able to see if someone was trying to steal your truck
Would you walk into a stand with the wind in your face and then do a 90 and sit down with the wind on your shoulder and the cover you expected to hold coyotes over the same shoulder? If a coyote tried to get down wind of you from that cover, wouldn't there be a 50-50 chance that he'd pass in front of you or behind you?
For me, the priority is to be always facing ,to some degree,the cover I expect the coyote to be in and the direction that I expect him to be coming. I face the cover and try to keep in mind what the downwind line will be. And since I'm right handed, I'll over compensate to my right on setups knowing that it will be easier to swing left to the downwind line rather than the right(make sense?)
I just about always hunt with a partner and one of us will always cover the downwind or downwind line of the caller. Basically setting up to the left or right and maybe somewhat behind the person doing the calling. If I had to quess. I'd say the caller shoots about 70% of the coyotes called in to about 30% for the person covering the downwind side. That's why we always take turns calling.
Dennis
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted November 11, 2005 11:32 AM
For me it seems like every time I decide to not worry about setting up with the wind at my back that it comes back to bite me in the butt. An example was this last trip we made a couple weeks ago.For most of the hunt I was very good about setting up with the wind at my back.But on one stand I decided not to worry about it.My brother and i set up at the bottom of a pretty big hill with an ocean a sage below us.There were draws on both sides of us and as you would have it (wind in our faces).Well we started calling and hadn't seen anything for about 10 minutes,when I caught some movement to my right behind me.I look to see a coyote walking up the hill trying to get down wind of us.To make long stories short I had to swing around to get a shot(very awkward)when I get around for the shot I see that there are three more coyotes with him.Needless to say I was only able to get one quick shot at them and did manage to get one of them.I really believe if i had just continued around the hill alittle further(down wind side)we could of maybe shot another one or maybe more.I was just being lazy.I can guarantee I won't let that happen again if I can help it.LOL Good Hunting Chad
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted November 11, 2005 11:35 AM
quote: Scruffy
Would you walk into a stand, with the wind in your face, and then do a 180 and sit down with the wind on your back and the cover that you expected a coyote to be in to your back? At least you would be able to see if someone was trying to steal your truck
Yes, late in the season this has worked really well. One of my "honey holes" is a section with the south 1/2 of the section is a mix of corn and beans and the top north 1/2 of the section is timber. There's a fence that runs East/West seperating the two halves of the section. I walk in the 1/2 mile from the road to the East/West fence and sit down along the fence, facing south. I hunt this place when there is a north, north west, or north east wind. I'm looking over a bunch of barren rolling fields with terrices. There is one small timbered finger that comes out of the timbered half of the section into the row crop field. I setup 100 yards east of the finger. I watch this finger carefully. It extends 75 or so yards out into the field and runs SW into a terrice. The tip of the finger is 150 yards from my spot. Where I'm sitting, against the fence, I'm at a higher elevation as the finger. I call, wind at my back, looking to my right towards the finger, actually cheating a bit and facing the SSW. I'm left handed so this is my "strong side" with the rifle. Many of the coyotes, no matter where in the big area of timber, seem to make there way to the finger and use it to get them out into the field 75 yards undetected. At the tip of the finger they will poke out and stand there for a minute looking around and then cross over behind the terrice. They use it to get to my downwind side, only it ends before they get to my downwind side and they are exposed 70-80 yards SW of me. With wind out of the north, this was perfect! I've got them at the end of the terrice and back at the end of the finger. It's a very productive stand because it funnels the coyotes and leads them to my barrel using the terrain to put the wind and their instincts against them.
This is just one example of a few of my favorite spots that I call with the wind at my back. It's odd at first. I've had one coyote, a pup, sniff me through the fence once. I had called in a runt fawn (mom doe killed by car I imagine...) a few minutes earlier with some lip squeeks that I saw on the other side of the fence out of the corner of my eye so when something started sniffing me I assumed it was the fawn. It was at the end of my stand so I decided to turn around and say "BOOO" to the fawn. I turned around and had a coyote pup about 6" from my face and about browned my shorts! He quickly back peddled from his side of the fence back into the timber.
To complete the oddness of that moment I sat there for a few more minutes laughing at myself and saw a coyote, nose down, trotting along my path through the field. I readied the rifle on the sticks when he was about 150 yards out and at 125 yards the coyote looked up right at me and started to circle. When he was SW of me, 100 yards out, I lip squeeked and he stopped and I squeezed the trigger. End of story.
The only two coyotes that I know of (yea, I'm sure some came up from behind me but didn't sniff my neck) that didn't come from upwind and circle me came on the same stand a few minutes apart. One sniffed my neck from the upwind side, the other came from where I parked the truck and tracked me to where I sat. It was just one of those days I guess.
quote: Would you walk into a stand with the wind in your face and then do a 90 and sit down with the wind on your shoulder and the cover you expected to hold coyotes over the same shoulder? If a coyote tried to get down wind of you from that cover, wouldn't there be a 50-50 chance that he'd pass in front of you or behind you?
Actually in the past I've done this alot more than with the wind at my back. Say with the wind out of the north and a big area of timber to my north I'll walk in from the south. I'll walk along a fence running North/South. When I'm a few hundred yards away from the timber I'll sit down along the fence with my body facing east or west and with the rifle facing NW or NE across my body. I switch hit in baseball and I also shoot both right or left handed. When facing east I shoot right handed if I expect a coyote out of the north so the rifle is naturally pointed to the NE.
Which side of the fense do I sit??? It depends. If the wind is NNW (or NW or WNW or even W) I'll sit on the east side. If the wind is NNE (or NE or ENW or E) I'll sit on the west side of the fence.
If the wind is directly out of the north I'll try again use the terrain to the coyotes disadvantage. If one side of the fence had thicker cover (more grass, more trees, etc) than the other I'll sit on the side with more cover. Or if the fence is visible from the road I'll sit on the side of the fence away from the road.
Basically I've never found a fence where one side wasn't atleast a smidge better than the other side for the coyotes approach and I sit myself on the side that's better for him.
Then when the coyote comes walking down the fence line, low and slow and using the cover I've given him as an approach, undoubtly stopping to check things out, he'll reach a point and start to circle. With a north wind, I'm sitting against the fense with my torso facing west, cheating a bit to the WNW maybe, but trying to "be one with the fence", shooting left handed, the rifle is pointed NW to NNW on the sticks across my body, I'm watching the field edge for him to break cover and enter the field, the coyote break cover and starts to circle 100 yards upwind of me I'll wait until he's infront of the rifle (I usually sit with it shouldered on the sticks ready to go), I drop my head down on the stock, bark or lip squeek to stop him, and squeeze the trigger.
The above describes the mid January 2005 morning at around 10:00am with a north wind and temps in the single digits. The fence line was north/south with a north/south road running parallel 800 yards to the east. The cover on both the west and east sides of the fence were the same. I setup on the west side, wind on my right shoulder, and called in a nice male, shot him right at 100 yards circling me after he broke cover. I figure he'd rather circle walking west away from a road, not towards it to the east, especially when the fence blocked view of him from the road.
On this fence there is enough trees and bushes and junk I couldn't see the coyote's 300 yard approach to me until he broke cover and started to circle me at 100 yards in the open harvested baren bean field covered with a bit of snow and ice (man it was loud walking in!).
Again, like above, I gave the coyote an approach, he took it, and exposed himself close to my location, out of my scent cone, I stopped him, and finally I shot him. Text book. You gotta love the occasional coyote that reads the text book.
But like I said, early in the season I hear alot of coyotes, or what I assume are coyotes, come straight in from my upwind side during the pre-gun-deer seasons. Which is why this fall I'm modifying my tactics to look upwind, keeping my downwind open as a deterant to circle, hoping that I'll have more pups and fearless coyote come straight in rather than circle. Later in the year however, and the later it gets, I anticipate most of the coyotes trying to get to my downwind side and I setup to funnel them to my downwind side with the opportunity to shoot them before they get all the way there. If a coyote doesn't circle I either don't see him because he stays behind me when the wind it at my back or if I'm looking crosswind and he doesn't circle and comes right in he ends up in my lap sort of speak, hopefully not litterally, but could happen depending on the cover I'm sitting in.
I hope this wasn't too long winded of an answer.
later, scruffy [ November 11, 2005, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
-------------------- Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 11, 2005 05:46 PM
"Rich, don't you mean the the call ends up being downwind of the honey hole. For instance the wind is out of the north, you approach from the south into the wind, select where you will be sitting, walk the caller 50 yards to the west (or east), and start the caller, walk back to your spot, sit down, the call is downwind (south) of the honey hole?" -------- Scruffy, Nope, you read it right. What I am doing is using the wind to blow my scent out into the useless open field, or at least mostly so. When I walk cross-wind to place the caller I am taking the chance of a coyote or two catching my scent, but once I am back at the edge of the open field and looking cross-wind, the coyotes are hopefully coming in down-wind of the caller instead of down-wind of me. I know that most of the coyotes are going to take advantage of the cover when approaching. This is really about same technique as you describe when you are watching that little narrow finger of cover that extends out from the woods.
-------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 14, 2005 10:42 AM
I don't mean to sound like a smartass, but.....
I've always found the best direction to face was towards the coyote. Screw the wind. If you aren't looking at the coyote, you will have a hell of a time seeing him.
I sit down generally with my back to the truck, facing the direction that I expect the coyote to come from.
If handcalling, I try to keep a large open area on my down wind side, but with electronics, I don't pay a lot of attention to the wind.
For those of you who put so much into watching the wind, what do you do when five minutes into the stand, the wind shifts? Do you get up and move? Do you quit calling? If you don't move everytime the wind shifts, then why do you worry about it when you first sit down?
-------------------- Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 14, 2005 11:55 AM
Quote; "I've always found the best direction to face was towards the coyote."
That's so true, I'm still laughing!! Now if the coyotes would only show up where they're supposed to instead of where they want to!!!
As far as what to do when the wind shifts, that's when I get serious about misting. A few squirts at the start of the stand & a few more every time the wind picks a new direction.
And by the way, Tim; Happy belated birthday wishes.
-------------------- And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8237 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted November 15, 2005 12:45 PM
Tim,
I thought that's what I was saying.I've found most of the time coyotes want to circle down wind,so that's where I have my gun pointed.Just like you said. I never call with an E-caller so again like you said "when using hand calls keep a large area downwind". As far as the wind shifting in the middle of my stand,like I said in my second post I set up with the wind at my back most of the time.That gives me a little wiggling room so not to make the rule of thumb an absolute and just in case the wind does shift.LOL Good Hunting Chad [ November 15, 2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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