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Author
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Topic: Black Coyote??
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 22, 2005 04:14 AM
22-250,
What forum, & date are those pics in?
I've seen one the last two winters that looked like that one. It was a shade lighter in color. Looks coyote to me, from what I can see.
Spotted one, roughly 15yrs ago. Looked just like it. All black, White crest, on the chest.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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maslatrans
PAKMAN
Member # 704
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posted September 22, 2005 06:25 AM
I've seen black coyotes while calling Pa. and Ma. There are a number of photos posted on other boards of black coyotes. I've never seen one west of the Mississippi.
The collar on the first dog would have concerned me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Pampass Knowitall Wannabe
Posts: 4 | From: Az. | Registered: Sep 2005
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted September 22, 2005 09:09 AM
Ok, I can't help myself on this one....If I was on the gun at night, I would not have shot that dog.
Why would anyone take the chance that it could be someones pet and shoot it? If it don't look like a 100% coyote to me, I'm not going to shoot it.
Predator callers are usually very responsible hunters, I'd call those two young boys irresponsible.
That's my opinion.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2005 09:37 AM
Well, I can go along with what Danny said, to some extent.
First off, I wouldn't bust a stand to shoot a dog. Second, if it's a feral dog, or a ranch dog running out in the middle of nowhere, where he doesn't belong, maybe I would plug him, waste a bullet? But normally, I let them run off, I like dogs.
By the way, that does look like a german shepard mixed, domestic dog, to me?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 22, 2005 09:59 AM
Yep, I like dogs to. Had dogs all of my life, except for perhaps a year. If I believed a dog came in on me. I'd have to personally witness its intentions & body language. Before I'd pulled the trigger. Other than a farmer, telling me. He has an I.D'd stock killer. Then, bang!
On the other hand, Iowa is pretty loaded with feral dogs. That have little to no fear of man.
Not to mention coyote crossbreds, with what... ![[Confused]](confused.gif) . I just don't know...perhaps dog.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted September 22, 2005 06:14 PM
I'm with Danny on this one. The pic's don't come up real well on my monitor but I don't see anything there that would make me think "coyote". I wasn't there on the ground, but...
Any self-respecting dog will respond to a distress call. I've had some happy-assed collared yellow labs show up when miles from a house. You can drive the most "sissyfied" dog nuts with a call.
Not a reason to shoot them, and I've shot my share of abandoned dogs. For cause.
Posts: 658 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted September 22, 2005 09:03 PM
I saw the pics and feel that it is probably a coyote. Black coyotes are not that uncommon (Especially in the East) I have even killed a couple, called in a few, and I have a few on film as well. No idea how many coyotes I have killed or seen killed and I have never witnessed what I would consider a coydog. Here in East Texas we have lots of stray dogs and you would think that at least once in a blue moon you would see a cross or one that possibly could be cross. Both Black coyotes I've killed apeared to be, at least to me as pure coyote, just black. I have seen them in other color pohases as well from almost pure white all the way to pure black.
As for shooting dogs. I hate shooting dogs. BUT if they are harassing livestock or game animals on my property or are noticibly strays I will shoot them in a heart beat. I called in bird dogs, duck dogs, hog dogs and even a weenie dog one time. Didn't shoot any of them but sure scared the hell out of them.
Byron
[ September 22, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted September 22, 2005 10:36 PM
Byron,
I see you edited your post and removed the Airdale. Smart move.LOL
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted September 23, 2005 05:55 AM
Labrador ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted September 23, 2005 08:26 AM
"if they are harassing livestock or game animals or are noticibly strays"
That sums up almost every unleashed dog I've ever seen. Even with the leash laws and dog taxes in place I had to get clarification from our state DNR to assure my rights to protect our property, wildlife and livestock from feral dogs. They agree; S.S.S.
Oh and it looks like those boys have killed a black coyote to me, would love to have one like it someday.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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varmit_master
PAKMAN
Member # 503
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posted September 23, 2005 09:42 AM
When i was in school i trapped for spending money. I cought a big black coyote on a dirt hole set it was the first i had seen. At first from a ways off it kind look like a dog .I got up close to it you could tell it was a coyote. I had to help it out of the trap with my 22. And i seen the guy that own the farm and he said he had seen it 3 or 4 times. But couldnt get a shot at it. So i ask the fur dealer and he said he seen a few. I didnt call it in i just trap it ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) VM
Posts: 9 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Jan 2005
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted September 23, 2005 10:37 PM
I think the pictures exhibit how poorly a computer monitor might depict the message we're trying to get across.
The first picture makes me think "coyote" only because the fur looks like what you might expect out of a hot weather coyote. The profile or body shape can not be determined - to my eyes.
The second only shows a couple of guys with something they shot, again - to my eyes. Maybe I'm not astute enough to pick up on the finer details, or a 17" monitor just isn't good enough.
As I said in my first post, I wasn't the guy there on the ground. Every thing about that animal may have screamed coyote - if you were there to judge it first hand.
I've killed exactly one coyote that I "knew" was black when she was responding to the call. After she was dead I could certainly question the color, but not the breed.
Not doubting what anyone shot, just commenting that those pictures wouldn't convince me of anything.
What is the latest free picture posting (hosting)site these days? Photography is tough - maybe a picture is only worth 1000 words if you have the right dictionary??????
I've taken a few shots (photos) and what I see is not always widely interpreted as I would hope... either!
Posts: 658 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 24, 2005 12:16 AM
I'm looking at a 19" flat screen, Joe. In spite of what some members have said, that animal doesn't look coyote (at all) to me. Black dog.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 24, 2005 04:14 AM
Maybe this fall or winter. I'll tag, one of these strange looking coyotes. In my area, You guys will be up all night. Kicking around,...What the heck is it ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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222shooter
PAKMAN
Member # 695
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posted September 24, 2005 05:34 AM
Although the fellas look like a couple of good ol boys from the US of A, except for the arm around the guy, Could this pic be from another country like Australia and the animal is something other than a coyote?. Like a dingo? Just a thought.
[ September 24, 2005, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: 222shooter ]
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"Coyote hunting has pretty much taken over my life".
Posts: 6 | From: southern Ohio | Registered: Aug 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted September 24, 2005 09:15 AM
I've looked at the pictures over and over again..The first picture looks to be coyote because of the tail,but then the curve in the snout says dog.
The second picture screams dog to me...The white under the chin and the snow white patch on the chest appears doggy to me...The face also looks doggy.
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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22-250
Knows what it's all about
Member # 36
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posted September 24, 2005 09:39 PM
The original post was on Predator Master under "Lake County, FL Coyotes" dated 09/21/05.
The first photo to me look like a coyote except the white spot on the lower neck. Can not really see the eyes, but look coyote.
The second photo looks like a dog, not a coyote.
I have called my share of dogs. My rule is not to shot a dog except if I hunting in Utah on private property. The only reason for that exception is that the owners wants dogs to be shot first over coyotes. Dog kill for fun. More damage to the sheep.
Have called single dogs, up to a triple. Called in a single dog follow by a single coyote. By the way, the coyote followed the dog in and then out of the stand.
Called in two dogs, as they were standing around the call, had a coyote come in from upwind. Shot over the heads of the dogs to shoot the coyote, the dogs reach Mach 4 but ran accoss a highway and one was hit by a car.
Guess that counts as 1/2 of a kill.
[ September 24, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: 22-250 ]
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The coyote is a living, breathing allegory of Want. He is always hungry. He is always poor, out of luck and friendless. The meanest creatures despise him and even the flea would desert him for a velocipede.
Posts: 108 | From: Longview, Texas, glad to be gone | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 25, 2005 08:03 AM
I went and read the thread at PM and some of the guys over there presumed that this animal was taken at night with lights when nothing was said to that affect, so shooting merely at eyes without a positive visual ID doesn't seem to be an issue. Aside from the white blaze in picture number 2, the profile I see says (at least, in part), coyote. A point that caught my eye is the absence of hair between the hindlegs in the first picture. Granted, I haven't killed very many summer coyotes, but the ones I have killed have had hair across their entire belly, including the crotch area, whereas dogs are generally bare skinned there - a feature b/n the two breeds that was pointed out to me many years ago by a veteran trapper. I'd be happy to stand corrected by you SW'erners that regularly shoot short haired coyotes in the summer months.
And, also, the owner of the property where this animal was taken was having trouble with coyotes bobtailling calves and these boys shot this critter with his blessing, so even if it was someone's pet,... oh well.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted September 25, 2005 09:23 AM
Looks to be a cross between a fox and coyote.LoL.What did mother nature do? Create a strange new breed
Lance, made a good point but,i'm still scratching my head on that one.
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted September 25, 2005 09:41 AM
Greenside. Tough one to call.
Any taxidermist could make a dog appear to be coyote and could put in kittykat eyes or marbles if he wanted.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted September 25, 2005 09:57 AM
Jay
That's what I'm thinking, but the key on the black coyote, always seems to be the white chest markings. Almost like it's a true color phase on coyote. Read that the true black phase on Red Fox only occurs on less than 2% of the population(the silver or black with silver tips is alot more common) and that's in the Northern range where it occurs more often than in the southern range.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 25, 2005 10:40 AM
And as far as the blaze marking on the chest goes, it's remotely possible that most coyotes have that balze, but light color surrounded by light color looks like nothing at all. ??? From the standpoint of genetics, assuming that the critter in question was, in fact, a black phase coyote, it could still be possible that the same recessive gene that, in a homozygous recessive individual, throws a black coyote, could present (phenotypically) with the sternal blaze as well. In any event, whatever that canine is, there are probably more just like her since that slight double swell in the posterior ventral abdomen (bare of hair area) looks like she's whelped a litter before. I state my position that I can not prove it is not a coyote any better than I can claim it is. How's them words for some pampass know it all BS?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 25, 2005 11:02 AM
Well, I'm a bit surprised.
As to features resembling a "western" coyote, I don't see them? Nothing about that animal says coyote, to me.
The snout and shape of the face looks dog. Also, speaking of the belly area, that animal looks fatter than any unpregnant coyote I have ever seen. The distance between the ears on the full frontal looks too upright, and too close together.
The blaze is the first thing that says mongrel dog (to me), I have never seen or heard of a full blooded coyote with a chest blaze. Paws look larger, in proportion, than most coyotes.
I think you could put a leash and collar on that animal and take her for long a walk and nobody would give it a second look.
For what it is worth, on Byrons pics. Black does not look 100% coyote, to me? Second animal is a beauty, and looks 100% coyote.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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