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Author
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Topic: Something to think about
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 17, 2005 10:08 AM
A few months ago we discussed techniques for call shy coyotes. I suggested that sometimes I would make a short stand, mist it, howl and leave. I would then sneak in to a vantage point where I could see the stand and usually a coyote had to come in and investigate it within twenty minutes.
This morning it took the coyote 13 minutes.
Misting
Thirteen minutes after leaving (camera timecode)
Coyote is at bottom right edge of bush. Another is a dark blob left of top middle of brush
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Todd Woodall
Knows what it's all about
Member # 439
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posted September 17, 2005 10:24 AM
Great post Rich, that sneaky little bugger couldnt help it could he. Did he come from upwind or downwind? Looks like you are misting to your right, just wondering. Great pics, you got to love it when a plan comes together.
Todd
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Posts: 181 | From: Weatherford Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted September 17, 2005 10:25 AM
I would have to say solid proof . That you know of what you speak.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 17, 2005 10:47 AM
Great idea, Rich. Kinda hard to see on this monitor. I'll chase momma off the big flat screen for a better look, later. Much later.
But, nothing new. I have seen that happen uncountable times, hunting from the truck at night and then driving off and watching the reluctant animal, (cat or dog) snoop around the stand site.
My theory is that they busted you. They are sure that a human is at the stand location and are not about to approach.
However, they are smart enough to see and understand what is happening when you pick up and leave. The threat factor has been all but eliminated.
So, when the coast is clear, they still think there is a distressed rabbit at that location and they are very interested in checking it out; now that the human left the site.
Actually, they can come scouting around even if you are not misting, but they wander all over the place, a little different than following a scent cone right to the source.
Timid one time, and amazingly bold, the next, you never know, with coyotes.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 17, 2005 10:47 AM
Todd, you're right, it came from downwind, both of them. They approached from left to right behind the bushes, When I left I set the nozzle to "stream" and shot each end of the bush, that's what this one had it's nose stuck in.
BTW, I did that at each stand that I called in Idaho in June. I'll bet that the animations show every alpha investigating the stand site. Interesting to see how much time elapses before they appear.
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 17, 2005 10:53 AM
Leonard, actually I didn't do any distress at this stand, just a lost puppy howl followed by a threat bark howl. After I retrieved my camera I moved two hundred yards up the wash and did some distress. Seven coyotes in front of me within 30 seconds. Caught me unprepared. Still got 16 minutes of good video.
Two mature coyotes and five big ears.
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted September 17, 2005 10:55 AM
Shucks,thanks,Rich for information
[ September 17, 2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Melvin ]
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 17, 2005 11:10 AM
Melvin, I can't remember the name of the thread or I would direct you there.
So to answer you
I would do this in the heavy cover in the Ozarks where the coyotes are pressured and call shy. I would select a stand site that is visible from a remote location within shooting distance (that is why I built "Lurch" my long range rifle). I would mist the site, blow a LOUD jackrabbit followed by a lone howl followed by a threat bark howl without waiting between series. Then mist the nearest bush and where I sat and immediately and quietly get out and into shooting position. I've shot from the top of a barn, from a fence post and from ridges overlooking small clearings down in the hollows. They usually show up slow and cautious within twenty minutes. Take pains to get in and out without leaving a trail that the coyote will cross. Takes a little planning.
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted September 17, 2005 11:40 AM
Alot of times if I'm in a situation of not being able to make another stand, due to upcoming darkness, I'll try to stretch a stand out by doing a similiar thing. Not the moving or the misting, but just waiting them out. Might start the stand with a lone howl and immediately go into a distress rabbit or jack rabbit for a few minutes to see if there's an easy one. And then wait a few minutes and then do a simgle howl(arroooh) and then basically wait them out untill dark. It will pay off at times, even though most of the time I'd rather make another stand.
That single howl seems to be the key for me.Not sure, but I think it could be interpeted as a gathering call or regrouping call for coyote. I know I hear it on occasion from what I think are Alphas when the litter or family group sound off from a different location. After a period of time you might get the whole group in your lap from the direction of the single howl.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted September 17, 2005 03:10 PM
I originally posted this in the Jaegger thread, by mistake.
Rich, that trip to Idaho is already paying off. The preliminary telemetry showing movement before and after calling does have practical value. To all the early naysayers, "What say ye now?" ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Noel Brandon
Knows what it's all about
Member # 697
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posted September 17, 2005 03:32 PM
Great stuff Rich. Do you think you would get the same behavior if two hunters went in and only one left? Leaving a shooter instead of the camera. Or would the human scent be to strong?
Posts: 21 | From: Renton WA | Registered: Sep 2005
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted September 17, 2005 04:26 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I've tried that tactic at night without much luck. At night it's better to just keep moving and cover a lot of territory.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted September 17, 2005 04:33 PM
Rich,
Has this ever been tested without the mist?
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 17, 2005 05:22 PM
I've only done this in heavy cover where a coyote can get close, downwind without being seen. My bet is that it takes them close to twenty minutes to make the final approach because their nose tells them that I've been gone twenty minutes. If another remained on stand the coyote would know it.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 17, 2005 06:12 PM
Rich Higgins,
I have often thought that coyotes would visit my stand after I left. It has crossed my mind many times over the years. Your experiment just proved that I was right all along. Imagine that. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 17, 2005 07:52 PM
Rich, I'll bet that they follow you from the stand to your vehicle more often than most people would guess also. I'm guessing that the animations will show that also.
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted September 17, 2005 09:24 PM
I think I will try this tomorrow morning. I have the perfect spot for it.
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Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted September 17, 2005 09:38 PM
There's been many times after a fruitless stand, I have taken a break and chit-chatted at the truck tailgate making a sandwich and low and behold we see a coyote. This explains why I would think.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 18, 2005 02:02 PM
I have a friend in Connecticut that discovered that in his human heavy area coyotes would come in to a call stand long after he left. The accesss he would have to land, much of the time was via old abandoned railroad tracks. He would walk and call evey third to half a mile and when he would come out the same way he would notice tracks over his old tracks.
He started using a calling philosophy of calling for 15 minutes and then just sitting silently for another 45 to 60 minutes and he had coyotes come in on about 30% of his stands.
What he was not able to determine from his very unscientific research, was whether or not they were just slow coyotes or smart from hunting pressure to have learned to wait out the caller.
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 18, 2005 02:25 PM
Gerald, I have done the math on the range of a distress call, if we agree that it is in the neighborhood of 1½ miles?
The question is, if you quit calling after fifteen minutes, how long would it take for a coyote to walk 1½ miles?
A human can easily walk at a 3 mile per hour rate. So, let me see(?) that would be 1½ miles in thirty minutes, right?
Now, if a coyote heard your call at 15 minutes and was 1½ miles away, and he walked as slow as a human, then he should show up at the stand in 45 minutes, max.
But, what about upwind, and what about the normal trot of a normal coyote? (much faster) I am very skeptical of waiting 45-60 minutes after calling, because hardly any coyote would require 60 minutes to cover 1½ miles. That would be 1.5 miles per hour, and most humans can walk backwards, that fast.
In short, I tend to go along with what Rich said, if he estimates that it takes around twenty minutes for a coyote to check out the source of the sound. Waiting any longer than that, as someone else mentioned above, would probably be put to better use on a completely different stand. However, as another writer indicated, at the end of the day, fast losing shooting light; I'd do it with enthusiasm.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 18, 2005 03:04 PM
Leonard,
Perhaps your figure is a good estimation on some coyotes. I've observed many from the roadway, over the years. The vast majority were hunting mice? I presume.
Some of them would, poke...n...poke, as they were hunting in an [un-organized direction]. Not going to far, to fast.
Others while hunting, were going in a dedicated direction. Covering some ground. They seemed to be walking around 3-5mph.
I've shot at & missed a boatload over the yrs. Most wouldn't run over 1/2 away. Many would run only a 1/4 mile away. Then they'd, resume back to what they were doing. Before I rudely, tried to kill them .
But on the other hand, if they would see my vehicle, shortly after I shot at them. Or if I drove around to cut them off. Then they would, quickly figure, I was the culprit. Trying to tag'em . Smart dogs, for sure.
Another interesting visual tidbit. While covertly watching them hunt. Most of them, were hunting, into or across the wind.
Occasionally, stopping & looking 360 degrees.
[ September 18, 2005, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 18, 2005 04:09 PM
Yeah, but I'm not considering a coyote poking along, mousing, etc. We are talking about a coyote responding to a call, distress or howl. While it is true that they can get distracted while coming to a call, for the most part, they don't dally too much until they get fairly close, within a ¼ mile, or so? Then, maybe they sneak from bush to bush? But, I was thinking of a coyote that just happened to come within range of a distress sound, and how far he would need to travel, if he was at the extreme limit of the carry of the call at max volume. I say that distance, under optimum conditions (downwind, crosswind) would be one and a half miles. No more than that. And, generally speaking, how long does a coyote take to travel 1½ miles. By my computations, it is probably about twenty minutes.....therefore, I see no need for anyone to sit on stand for 60 minutes after making his last call. Shy or not shy. I do see some value for waiting them out; for a while, if they may be call shy. But, not 60 minutes.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted September 18, 2005 04:19 PM
I'd quess that if you had a coyote coming at a real steady lope, he'd probably be coming at the 10-15 mile per hour range. If he'd occasionally drop down to a trot he might be in the 5-10 mph. For a mile and a half he could be there in 5-10 minutes.
Dennis
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 18, 2005 04:24 PM
Roger that, Leonard.
The few coyotes, I've had show up while calling. Took from around a minute to around 15 minutes. Before, me seeing them.
Some ran/bounded to my call area. Others poked & hunted along the way. While baring in on my location. Never completely losing their main focus.
The difference between, the walkers & runners is interesting.
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted September 18, 2005 05:27 PM
Rich,
WOW!!! I am impressed, commending, admiring, and absolutely & phenominally, doubly "sheeeshified" by your passion and determination to learn about coyotes.
All that above stated and I'm not even trying to kiss your bummy or anything. Just impressed! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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