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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on February 16, 2005, 06:38 PM:
I am somewhat embarressed to have to ask this question since I am suppossedly an involved figure in the industry. Are there any predator calling associations that exsist on a national scale? You guys out west have had successful state organizations for quite some time but I can not remember any that lasted any length of time on a national scale. Why do you think that is?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 16, 2005, 07:35 PM:
Kinda funny, Gerald, but there is an Organization called The National Varmint Callers Association!
However, they all are located down in Orange County, California.
Maybe there should be some sort of Federation of Predator Calling Clubs?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Z (Member # 303) on February 16, 2005, 07:56 PM:
Gerald,
I kind of look at it as "is the glass half full or half empty". If we had a national association would we draw more attention to ourselves from the animal rights activists. I know it is not good to advertise calling contests unless within the framework of your local organization or on a website like this. I don't know if a national association would do us more good or harm. Just my $.02 worth.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on February 16, 2005, 08:11 PM:
It's been thought of, I think it would be a good thing. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Clubs across the country could belong to one big club. One with political power, something I think we could use? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on February 16, 2005, 09:33 PM:
National Callers Association ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Hey it works for the trappers ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Todd
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on February 17, 2005, 05:30 AM:
I don't know of such an organization, but it is long overdue. Rather than gaining unpopular attention, as someone else stated, at this juncture I think it would do the opposite. A united voice is a powerful tool. I nominate Leonard and Gerald as President and Vice President. They seem to have a pretty good handle on things and are both pretty level headed.
Where do I send my dues?
Since I don't have anywhwere to send them I nominate Danny as secretary treasurer, and put the National office in Carrizozo, N.M.
[ February 17, 2005, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2005, 06:52 AM:
The politics of predator hunting organizations is as hardball as the world will ever see. Ya know, it's truly like HERDING CATS!
So before we nominate, (I mean, appoint) Cal Taylor as Sargeant at Arms.... Understand, you will actually have a need to bare arms!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on February 17, 2005, 07:29 AM:
I have a saloon right next to my motel, don't give me any money ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
lol. All joking aside, I think the idea is a good one, How to go about it would be another story.
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on February 17, 2005, 06:03 PM:
Sounds like a fine idea to mre also.
Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on February 18, 2005, 06:29 AM:
Thanks for stepping up Gerald, Leonard, Danny and Cal. When is our first meeting .
All joking aside, I believe it would be a good thing to have. This way we can all have a voice with at least a little stroke like the trappers do. There are several smaller clubs that could consolidate into a national organization, and still retain their local efforts. With such a network of people we could be aware of issues that effect predator hunting as they arise and have the political clout to deal with it. If we don't join together as others have in the shooting sports then someday soon the things we take for granted today will be gone. Gerald Stewart would make a great president of such an organization. His personality and ability to deal with people coupled with his credintials in the sport makes him a natural, Kinda like what Charleton Heston did for the NRA .
Byron
[ February 18, 2005, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on February 18, 2005, 07:51 AM:
Wow it's really great to see so many people volunteer for the offices in a organization like this I would love to see it happen. A national meeting every year maybe a big hunt for those of us that like the competetion! the possibilities are endless Where do i send my dues and i vote the first national meeting is at Cals place i just can't get enough of that country!
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on February 18, 2005, 08:56 AM:
It sounds like a good thing to me. A national organization could do great things for the sport.
In my experience locally many will pick up a call occasionally but there are few die-hard predator callers in my area. I can think of one maybe two guys other than myself in town that would give up hunting for a rack to go out calling. To most calling is something that happens when the game seasons end. These people might join but would not be willing to do any work to keep things rolling but will be the first to gripe when they think things are not right.
.02
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 18, 2005, 10:09 AM:
nd coyote killer,
I, too, am impressed with the rate that these guys are stepping up for the big jobs. Then again, this medium makes it difficult to vote them into office by the normal means. You know how that works... you sit there with your mouth shut until your eyes go crossed and your hair's standing on end. Finally, when you can't stand it anymore, you get up and leave to take a leak and when you get back, you're PRESIDENT! Congratulations.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2005, 11:19 AM:
I'm holding out for King
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 18, 2005, 01:13 PM:
In lieu of such an organization, I've been supporting the state trappers association (UTA), which in turn supports the national association, for quite awhile. I've never set a trap in my life, and living where I do, with the schedule I have, I probably never will (would LOVE to if I could). But, these guys are the best thing going for predator hunting in general, in my opinion. Most of the UTA guys I've met, are pretty active callers, as well as trappers.
- DAA
Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on February 18, 2005, 02:17 PM:
Hey trust me, I was not running for office. I don't have any movies behind me on a par of Ben Hur or the Ten Commandments. I have done a couple that I felt were kind of like Planet of the Apes though.
Could an organization like that be as effective if it zeroed in on only one segment of the calling sports or would it be better if it was called the Wildlife Callers Association? You then could have room at the table for a wider range of supporters. Would that dilute the energy and effort to protect the least of those present at the table? What do you think?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2005, 02:45 PM:
You mean like crow hunters? What else is there? Ducks & geese, Turkeys?
[ February 18, 2005, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on February 18, 2005, 03:14 PM:
Hey ND, My little part of the world is a secret! Lets keep it that way.
I would only be interested in a predator calling association. No fowl hunters need apply. Crow and turkey hunters probably already have an association anyway.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 18, 2005, 04:12 PM:
Gerald,
Such an idea sounds good in priciple, but it takes a lot of ongoing maintenance to ensure that the organization stays true to its roots. I submit the Kansas Fur Harvester's Association as an example.
At it's inception, charter members the likes of F. Robert Henderson and Major Boddicker, chose that name specifically because it was their intent to represent anyone and everyone who held some stake in the fur industry - trappers, callers, furbuyers, supply dealers, fur farmers, and the like. A few years back, when the last remaining vestiges of the original guard went their merry way, the "new guys", in their infinite wisdom, created what they affectionately called the "Trapper's Hall of Fame". And, I saw the writing on the wall.
Today, my career doesn't allow me to run a trapline in accordance with the law, so I don't. I focus nearly all my fur harvesting efforts toward calling which, in my somewhat informed opinion, is growing in popularity by leaps and bounds while trapping numbers remain dormant to nominally decreasing each year. Because of these factors, I've decided to focus my writing on calling and let the diehard trappers write their own copy. Because I don't write anything on trapping anymore, I've caught some grief from people that used to treat me with some semblance of respect. They think I've abandoned them now, when quite the vice versa is more true. They've stated publicly that they have no intention of refocusing their organization on calling as they're now a trappers-only group with a misnomer for a name.
I wholeheartedly support any group that brings consumptive users to the table in the spirit of unifying the various allied interests. But, it'll take a lot of extra work and the right people to blend the egos across the board. You seem to be an effective diplomat with the right amount of name recognition. The bathroom is over there------>
Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on February 18, 2005, 04:18 PM:
Well, maybe there is strength in numbers especially when you zero in on one aspect of all types of wildlife. Example: I would not be interested in defending high fences but surely would be interested in defending the use of recordings for deer hunting with a Wildlife Calling Association. The National Turkey Federation probably has never championed the use of electronic callers for turkey although it is legal in a number of states. It should be available everywhere.
The organization could have potential factions within it's own ranks. The Turkey example would be one. I would visualize the organization defending both the use of mouth blown and recordings. Another major emphasis would be rules and regs on what can be called and when, not just how.
Are there other organizations out there that have vigorously defending the calling of predators other than the NTA? I would think that an organization like that would need to excersise good judgement as too whether or not it would be a good thing to allow the use of electronics on certain species. The waterfowl regs are what they are for a good reason. Just some more food for thought.
[ February 18, 2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on February 18, 2005, 04:27 PM:
Cdog911, that is some interesting input. The egos statement alone is enough to make me want to avoid the management responsibilities. There are a few of those in this business.
[ February 18, 2005, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on February 18, 2005, 04:40 PM:
Hey Leonard, how about Deer, Turkey, Waterfowl, Bears, Predators, Moose, Elk and Crow.
Would the organization need to be inclusive of non hunters who want to call for Photography, research or other personal reasons. Are you aware that it is deemed harrassment to call or photograph wildife in many of our federal properties now. Would that issue be one that would come under the scope of the organizations intent?
What if chicken growers became too strong in the organization and demanded that it champion the calling of hawks and owls for harvesting......wow this may get out of hand.....never mind! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Just kidding of course....
I think a Predator Calling Association is sounding better now that I think about it.
[ February 18, 2005, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posted by Yellerdog (Member # 356) on February 18, 2005, 06:11 PM:
Sounds like you've got a good handle on it Gerald! I'll certainly join. I nominate Skinner 2 to head the Michigan chapter.
I'm sure his ego won't get in the way.
Right Skinner 2.
Lee Smith
Member, Michigan Predator Callers Association
[ February 18, 2005, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Yellerdog ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2005, 06:19 PM:
The first order of business it a committee to do a complete survey of the various states and compile a list of existing organizations. Then, it needs to be determined if there is a desire, on the part of these Clubs to form some sort of relationship.
Still seeking volunteers. LB
Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on February 18, 2005, 06:33 PM:
If one chooses to go forward, there would be quite a bit of effort to assess the viability and the potential for this to become a reality. Don't shove me off from shore just yet. I did not ask these things because I was contemplating doing something. I was just thinking about my future direction in this industry and wanted to brainstorm many possibilities. This only being a remote one.
I am currently not under contract with HS and have tested the water on a couple of different possible career moves. HS and I are still talking and trying to hammer something out.
I have organized events and activities on a much smaller scale than something like this and I know what it took in energy and focus to do those. This would be a really big task that would need a good team to pull off effectively.
I am just trying to solicit some thoughts about the if's, what's, where's and when's that would be neccessary to tackle something like this. That's all. I'm not running for office.
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on February 18, 2005, 06:51 PM:
The local game and fish in conjunction with the Deer people are behind the scenes in supporting predator caller/hunters in a Save The Fawn Program. They are fially realizing that predator hunters can and do benefit their platforms.
Don't ever look for DU to even remotely consider any proposal. They would burn anyone in a heartbeat.
Of course that is my personal opinion and the the opinion of The Wildlife Calling Association.
I like the idea of a National Association. Gerald, I think you should seriously pursue this. It would need someone of your notoriety, experience and demeanor to spearhead.
I had a bit part in the blockbuster movie called Ben Hurt. It was the pilot movie for Divorce Cort, produced by Ben Dover.
I imagine that the greatest wildlife caller that ever lived was Noah and always found it odd that no artist ever sowed the call lanyard hanging around his neck. Hmmm. There's an idea for the Texas Filmakers to work out.
Posted by 222 (Member # 567) on February 19, 2005, 03:28 AM:
I think it would a great thing, if it were to happen. However, a lot of time, effort, and emotion would have to be set forth. The question to ask is would it be worth it? I have seen things like this evolve ( granted, not on such a grand scale)in which people gave it their all, only to come away disgruntled. So, in reality, would the results out way the efforts?
If all org. would come together, what would benifit the guys at the state level? There are very few national laws that regulate the sport ( in Pa anyway) that there would be a need for a lobbying group. I think you may have a dificult time organizing existing groups since they are already established.
My opionion would be to start from scratch and start fresh. Once established and the ball is rolling and the association becomes something attractive, let the smaller groups join. It is something that could be done. Look at VHA. I think their secret is they made it a "fun" club to belong too.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 19, 2005, 04:26 AM:
quote:
That's all. I'm not running for office.
You don't have to run for Office Gerald, just run down the hall to the bathroom for a minute while we get ready to vote.
I volunteer to help Danny make sure that no one steals any of the stools from the Saloon.
I think a national organization is a great idea. While the waterfowl and Turkey callers are known for having some deep pockets and could really help get things moving financially, I'd be afraid to include them. Money buys influence, and I'd hate for a new national organization to become basically a bird hunters club ten years down the road.
Posted by Predator Down (Member # 453) on February 19, 2005, 06:00 AM:
I agree that a nation wide club would be great for the predator caller. But to bring the bird hunters into it would be a mistake. the NWTF is about its self. I have been asking for four years to see some type of coyote print to be put in the banquet auction items only to told no turkey hunter wants a print of a ugly mangy coyote. It is certain that these turkey hunters have never called in a prime coyote in the winter months , and watch how majestic this creature is in his domain . Much like a gobbler in the spring woods. Dont get me wrong the NWTF is a great club I started the chapter here where I live and make my money selling predator and turkey calls. If you do bring the bird hunters into it you will have a majority of bird hunters running the show in the future
[ February 19, 2005, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Predator Down ]
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on February 19, 2005, 07:28 AM:
And I could be the Public Relations Director!!
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on February 19, 2005, 07:41 AM:
Sounds good to me Q, but when you say "Relations", you're not referring to the Arkansas kind are you? Just want to be sure.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 19, 2005, 11:45 AM:
Jay, I've already received a few misdirected responses and I'm forwarding them to you. Crank open your spam filters for a sec.
The choice of Quinton for PR is a good one although I was thinking more along the lines of William Shatner/Priceline.com.
You know: "this is going to be big, REALLY BIG!"
But, I doubt that we could afford the big names?
That's why I was thinking of Shatner, or possibly Rosey O'Donnell?
By the way, I once saw Shatner shoot (arrow) a brown bear on ABC's American Sportsman, years ago. Bet Q hasn't done that?
yet.
Good hunting. LB
[ February 19, 2005, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 19, 2005, 04:32 PM:
Quinton will do a much better job at separating the wheat from the chaff. Don't want anybody in there that hasn't earned their keep. Like roc... forget it.
On a more serious note, maybe we should each establish a network of interested callers in each state, encourage people to frequent a site like this where each state has its own forum. As we sucker people in, we gather and amass a list of e-mail addresses and we groom them to be minions for our little plan. After a while, we'll be able to see which states really show an interest and which ones don't. Let ppl join for the sole purpose of comraderie and fellowship - just a good ol' boys group - and see if it can't evolve into something bigger and more goal oriented. That would give the big wheels plenty of time to grow into their respective positions and make their own mistakes without hurting anyone or anything. I think we'd attract a lot more "members" if we initially present it as a means by which they can network with others that share their interests in calling predators, rather than a balls to the wall, brimstone and fire, lobbying and legislature-bangin' bunch of hardasses. We need to have a few of those, sure. But, not everyone wants to be part of just that.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 19, 2005, 04:52 PM:
Lance, I wonder if a short paragraph in a National Publication might direct interested people to a specific place?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 19, 2005, 05:42 PM:
If you were willing to allow your site to be the gatherin' place, I could approach Paul about a small notation seeking input from interested parties. It's been a long standing tradition with "Trapper" going way back to the Spearman days to be a major player in the promotion of pro-hunting and trapping groups. That would expose the idea to their readers, and working hand in hand with the guys at PM might expose us to even more if they were willing. There are roughly 10k members at PM and T&PC's readership is right at about 35K.
If we're serious about doing this, we need to develop some sort of "committee" to oversee the initial efforts to make sure we start out heading in the right direction in everyone's opinion, including what just such a paragraph would say, what it offers to the prospective member, and what we're willing to offer at this point.
Just think, there was a time, many years ago, when several guys sat around a kitchen table somewhere in (I believe) Pennsylvania and thunk out the foundation for what is now the National Trapper's Association.
What the hell. I've written more copy for them in the past three months than I've ever cranked out in my life. I'm all but fresh out of new ideas. It'll just be another ten minutes at this computer. (And, according to my wife, I live in this corner of the living room anyway.)
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on February 19, 2005, 06:14 PM:
Aren't we forgetting that Gerald was the one that brought this up? Seems to me that we need to find out his intentions and where he would like to go and what his visions are. Up to now we've been half serious and half joking, but I think Gerald should call the next shots.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 20, 2005, 03:44 AM:
I agree, Jay, and I'm more than happy to not volunteer for anything else right now.
Posted by yuccabush (Member # 582) on February 20, 2005, 07:08 PM:
I think it is a good idea to get everyone together to have one voice. The group would be able to put up some numbers to compete with the antis. I would not want it to end up like the RMEF and similar groups.
yucca
Posted by catmando (Member # 457) on February 20, 2005, 08:54 PM:
G.S. sign me up and let me know how i can help.
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on February 21, 2005, 05:21 AM:
Here's and interesting link:
http://www.health-serve.com/coyoteclub/index.html
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 21, 2005, 09:06 AM:
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, yuccabush. Glad to have you on board.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on February 21, 2005, 12:47 PM:
I'm all for it if it stays just for predator callers. The rest all have their clubs and associations already.
Cal Don't worry you secret is safe with me
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 21, 2005, 03:22 PM:
Jay, I rec'd a link to that site as well. Went and did some perusing and something about it just seems less than what I envision for this.
On another note, when I was in Nebraska where coyotes reign supreme, I did a little market research by inviting people to join my soon-to-be-chartered group, Coyotes Unlimted Forever. Got a lot of interesting looks and a comment or two, but nothing I can tell you here.
That's my suggestion for the name of the group. It's got lots of "recognition" value.
[ February 21, 2005, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on February 21, 2005, 04:21 PM:
Sorry Cdog,
I thought our mission was to limit coyote numbers by hunting. To actually help wild game populations and livestock producers. If you came to Wyoming with a "Coyotes Unlimited" sticker on your truck there are places you might get lynched. If it's "Coyotes Unlimited" you can count me out. But now if you change the name to "Coyotes Limited" I'll probably still join up. LOL!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 21, 2005, 05:37 PM:
Well, the concept of "kill 'em all" would certainlyu place us in a stand alone genre as far as the conservation groups go. Then again, it may be "our mission" to limit their numbers, but the last thing "I" want to do is reduce their numbers to the point that they become a non-factor. I certainly appreciate the plight of ranchers and livestock producers that incur losses from coyotes, but in all honesty, I must admit that I enjoy those years when coyote numbers are high a whole lot more than those when coyote are few and far between. From where I sit,and respective to coyote numbers, the more the merrier. Am I alone?!?!?
I still like "Coyotes Forever".
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on February 21, 2005, 05:54 PM:
No worries Lance,
Unless they start selling 1080 again I don't think we're in any danger of running out of coyotes. There are more coyotes in more places than there have been probably ever been. I personally don't think they are in any need of conservation efforts. I'm also not one for "wiping them out" either. But logically I don't worry about it because I don't think it's possible. I do think that they are in need of some serious thinning in places though. But where we can't keep up mange, parvo, and starvation step in and do the job for us.
Posted by varmit_master (Member # 503) on February 21, 2005, 11:53 PM:
Hi Jay N i join that club at the Big Buck C last yr i got a decal for a hat and one for the truck and it cost me 20.00 dollars that is the LAST time i have heard any thing from them and that will be the LAst 20.00 bucks they get from me they didnt do what they said they was going to do Please let me know if you get a club started for predator callers because i think MR Stewart word is good as gold to me VM
Posted by mumbleypeg (Member # 612) on March 12, 2005, 12:15 PM:
Hello, great forum you all have here. I was browsing through and found this thread.
For information on the National Predator Callers Association, Fletcher Diehl here in San Diego is your man. If you email me I'll send you his phone#. He is a bit old school and not digital, so you have to use the phone to contact him.
Thanks for the info I have already picked up here.
md
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2005, 10:37 PM:
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, mumbleypeg. Glad to have you on board.
I remember Fletcher from way back. He won a Weatherby at one of our Annual Award dinners at the Chalon Mart, back in the 70's. He used to be president of the San Diego Chapter of the CSVCA.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by wood60 (Member # 627) on March 27, 2005, 08:13 AM:
lets get it started and see where it goes we can talk about it later youll never know untill you try lets see if people are interested or just blowing smoke ill step up and join or what ever needs to be done.i think the N.M.P.C.A will back you 100% what do you think onecoyote can they count on us???
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on March 27, 2005, 12:11 PM:
Chalon Mart in downtown LA, man does that bring back some memories.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2005, 07:53 PM:
Remember the Chalon Mart, Danny? That place was way too classy for a bunch of scruffty varmint callers.
Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on March 27, 2005, 09:08 PM:
well you guys seem to be on to something, and i will do anything that i can do to help see it happen!
Count me in!
Clint
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on March 28, 2005, 07:12 AM:
Clint, Many of us have been in predator hunting clubs for years. It's alot of work, finding people who are welling to do the work is the hard part. Getting people to join is the easy part. This is a good idea, we just need some people to pick up the ball and run, lets see what happens. Leonard, you're right. We were a bunch of scuffty guys, but we knew how to hunt predators lol.
Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on April 05, 2005, 12:52 PM:
I hope you guys are succsesful getting something going. Been lurking on and off but prefer keeping quiet. Hello Gerald, Danny, Leonard!
PS You need dedicated people who's hearts are in it all the way to make a national organization work.
I'll go back to keeping quiet now.........
Airborne Laser
[ April 05, 2005, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on April 05, 2005, 03:32 PM:
Frank, I ain't seen you post in a long time, good to hear from you. Hows the California desert doing, I know you guys got alot of rain. You and your Yak doing ok, are you stell flying it? I was kind of thinking you'd fly out here this summer maybe?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 06, 2005, 04:51 AM:
Well I guess this is where I dis-lurk and add my $0.02 worth.
I think that a National Predator Callers Assn. would be a great benifit, if it's going to be more than just 'buy a patch & recieve club offers for life insurance and credit cards in the mail'.
An active Assn. that could work with various Game & Fish Depts. to codifie the laws we state-hoppers go by would be worth the price of admission alone. Working with states such as Arizona to legalize night hunting would be another bonus.
However....at present we have a number of 'big frogs in their little ponds'. Our freinds over at JH's house would likely insist on a coyote season while a number of folks on PM don't have a problem shooting a wet bitch with a .300 mag. These people do not play well together!! One Calif. club that I once contacted was mouth calls only and felt that electronics were the tool of the devil. That's fine for a local club, less so when a Nat. Assn. contacts Fox Pro for support and a donation.
I'd say that Gerald has his work cut out for himself.
Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on April 06, 2005, 06:43 AM:
I know that some of this thread started by everyone ribbing each other about nominations for office but i was just wondering if it has started to go anywhere or if were still in the ribbing mode
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on April 06, 2005, 07:30 AM:
KoKopelli, I'd like to know what California club used hand calls only. Just for my own personal information, I never knew that, Thanks
[ April 06, 2005, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 06, 2005, 09:43 AM:
Would someone look up the coordinates that Kokopelli posted? It would be interesting to see what part of north Nevada our flute player is hiding.
Welcome Koko. I like a mystery. Your writing style is familiar.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on April 06, 2005, 11:06 AM:
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=16&Z=11&X=36&Y=351&W=1
I think it's the Mustang Ranch! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 06, 2005, 12:19 PM:
I don't think so, but, (of course) I have been through, and hunted around Dixie Valley, east gate, etc.
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, Kokopelli. Glad to have you on board.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 07, 2005, 12:46 AM:
1 coyote, I've been racking my few remaining brain cells trying to remember what club that was an am coming up with a blank. It was in the early '80s when I was still recovering from the '70s and had just discovered that I really like seeing a white spec on the horizon materlize into a coyote running in like he's late for lunch.
Apon reflection, it may have been an Arizona club. I tend to use the entire western United States for my own personel playground. Sorry I can't remember more, but then again, I can't even remember how I got to this planet in the first place. I suspect that strong drink, song & dancing girls had something to do with it though.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 07, 2005, 03:43 AM:
Kokopelli, then you may have been thinking of Phoenix Varmint Callers Inc. which does not allow electonic callers for any club events.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on April 07, 2005, 05:58 AM:
KoKopelli, I do believe Rich is right. I was a member of the CVCA in the 70s and 80s and behond. All the clubs used 8 tracks or cassetts along with hand calls back then. That's why I asked, could have been something I didn't know about at the time. Thanks for the reply and welcome to this site, I think you'll like it.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 07, 2005, 06:23 AM:
Rich; thank you, I think you may be right and I stand corrected.
My point, however, remains that the Nat. Predator Callers Assn. president for life - Gerald Stewart is gong to have to step on a lot of toes.....lightly. For this thing to work (and I hope that it does) it's going to take a great deal of diplomatic skills along with time & effort.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 07, 2005, 08:21 AM:
Kokopelli, you are welcome and you are right, the director or president of such an organization will have to possess superhuman skills and qualities. The politics and internecine bickering within individual clubs alone is mindnumbing.
I have the minutes from the second annual meeting of the National Varmint Callers Association which was held in Chandler, Az. on Feb. 21, 1960.
Outgoing President was James D. Sparks and President-elect was Doug Kittredge. Attendees included Wayne Weems, Donal Williams, Lew Mossinger, Jim Dougherty and someone named Snake Hogan.
I'll be talking to three of those gentlemen in the next month and I'll ask all for their history of the organization and why they think it failed.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on April 07, 2005, 08:26 PM:
Encore for President!!!!
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 07, 2005, 09:44 PM:
I think so too.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 14, 2005, 09:48 AM:
I know i'm a litle late posting this but wasn't a member when it went up
Alskan yote is right it did work for the trappers...The National trappers Association
Gerald nothing gets done unless we do it. You know coyote calling has grown to a big sport here in the east
I think we need someone to take the lead and get a national calling association started
My vote goes for you Gerald as President and Lenoard as vice president..Rich Higgins I believe you would fit in here somewhere...To hell with the Anti's.....Why should we let them have there way when we can be a strong force to recon with
To keep what you got you have to fight
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 14, 2005, 12:17 PM:
Melvin, thank you for the vote of confidence, but I really had my heart set on "King Hell Dictator".
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2005, 01:19 PM:
In nominating Higgy for Ambassador of Goodwill, and declining any public office where I would need to deal with people; let me relate a few recent examples.
Higgy has extensive networking amongst those of our present interests. He went out of his way to set up hunts with various name people at the St Francis hunt, works a room with the best of them.
On the other hand, for example; I recently got out of the truck with another hunter and was immediately interogated by an aging hippie chick: "Did you kill anything"? I ignored her, and walked on by without even acknowledging that I heard her.
My partner, on the other hand, threw her a curve by claiming that we were just photographing wildlife, and engaged in a several minute conversation. Maybe she believed him and maybe not, but he certainly took the wind out of her sails.
Yesterday, we were at a store and bought seven half gallons of ice cream, on sale. As I placed them on the counter, the guy behind me said: "Looks like you have a craving for ice cream"? I had my back to him, and ignored the remark. My wife, on the other hand, took advantage of the pregnant silence by talking about all the room in our garage freezer, etc. etc.
Then, while driving home, she suggested that I was rude, in my silence, because the man was friendly. I explained that I took it as a wise-ass remark, while my back was to him, and didn't intend to dignify his comment by responding.
I rest my case.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on April 14, 2005, 01:34 PM:
Leonard I feel your pain! My silence is oftentimes misinterpreted as being rude. I keep telling Mamma that if I were truly rude I still wouldn't have said anything but would have turned and said something Dr. Phil wouldn't have approved of.
Higgy does have "peeple skeels" no doubt. The downside is the misting bottle that he carries can clear a room real quick.
[ April 14, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 14, 2005, 01:43 PM:
Jay you got me curious...Whats he got in that bottle
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 14, 2005, 01:48 PM:
"King hell dictator" with a misty bottle
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on April 14, 2005, 02:33 PM:
Melvin.
In all my years of calling, the one single most important thing I have ever learned is to NEVER walk to a stand with Higgins while on the down-wind side. If it isn't talc powder, it's some kind of radioactive smelly stuff.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 14, 2005, 03:00 PM:
And it sticks to your skin. Long after it burns up your ability to smell, you still stink. It then transfers to the seat in your truck and it'll stink for weeks.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2005, 03:29 PM:
I can see that Melvin is new around here? I have heard mention that Higgins uses some type of cover scent cologne; I think it is?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on April 14, 2005, 05:57 PM:
Cologne ya thats it!!!You could call it that! ....lol
Brent
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 14, 2005, 07:07 PM:
Philestines, all of you. I knew a fellow that actually dabbed Hoppes 9 behind his ear because the wonderful memories that it evoked would paste a smile on his face until it wore off.
And so it is with the delicate bouquet of Leonard's Magic Mist. The endorphines kick in as soon as that lovely fragrance touches an olfactory nerve end and put a smile on my face also. I've heard that scent triggers memories more than any other stimulus.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 14, 2005, 08:24 PM:
I don't know if being downwind of pure skunk in a bottle brings back memories or causes you to loose your memory
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 14, 2005, 08:58 PM:
If your using a cover up smell and the birds are flying upside down you know its not worth crapping on
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 14, 2005, 10:03 PM:
Regarding both of the preceding posts.
1. Leonard's Magic Mist is for real men- skunk in a bottle is for pansies.
2. There is no such thing as cover scent.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 15, 2005, 07:00 AM:
Sounds like there is a lot of pansies in the east and the west and a lot of liars to.
Rich i guess Leonard could spray up a coyote with that mist anytime he wanted..Might as well sit in the back yard and shoot all day
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 15, 2005, 10:23 AM:
"Sounds like there is a lot of pansies in the east and the west and a lot of liars to.
Rich i guess Leonard could spray up a coyote with that mist anytime he wanted..Might as well sit in the back yard and shoot all day"
Melvin, from the tone of your post you have apparently inferred something that I did not imply in what I intended as humor.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 15, 2005, 11:40 AM:
Heck no rich...i did take it as humor
I think we both misunderstood each other
We got to watch what we say...Hope no one was offended....You got to read between the lines
In some ways i think i am a tansie...I'm not gone to say anything about the liar part..LOL
Keep it coming rich...I enjoy every post you put up
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on April 15, 2005, 11:57 AM:
"Philestines"? Whooo Boy!
I tried reading between the lines on that but it was all Etruscan to me.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2005, 01:46 PM:
"Philestines"? : I think it's a Biker Club from Jerome; Higgins is King Hell Dictator? But, the other twin is the brains behind the throne, er org.
I've always heard, (dark side) there is no such thing as a cover scent? You fellers believe in the Easter Bunny, too?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 15, 2005, 06:17 PM:
I've always heard, (dark side) there is no such thing as a cover scent? You fellers believe in the Easter Bunny, too?
Only if he plugs into and E Caller
Hey Rich your the one that started that cover up scent deal...Now I'm getting smacked with it
Leonard have you been sniffing that Mirrical mist?...Don't get mad at me...Rich started it..lol
Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on April 17, 2005, 05:47 PM:
Varminters;
I've got some important concepts to pass along here so please read this post. This thread was about starting a National Varmint hunting org or something similar.
I don't know what the stated purpose or goals of the new organization would be but I do know that there is one thing that affects "ALL OF US"!
Below is a posting made to the Pirate 4X4 Forum ( http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253909 ).
It is important to note the actions the BLM and similar US agencies are taking to try and limit your ability to access public lands. This issue is so important that if we do nothing it will affect our ability to hunt public land forever.
Please read the following and then my response to this..............
----------------------------------------------
From someone in a 4X4 club concerned about his ability to access public lands for camping, fishing, hunting, exploring or other forms of enjoyment..............
----------------------------------------------
I am writing to you in regards to the Cal4 Trail Mapping program. As you know the Forest Services and BLM are initiating a program to map every trial in the State of California (With possible further, federal implementation of this program in other states). Their concept will be that if the trail or road is not on THEIR maps, then the trail or road will be closed.
We need to make sure that we have a complete inventory of every trail and road so that we can assure that thay are on the government’s maps and remain open.
Our web form is up and running and we now need to have project managers from each club (4X4 club)contact me as soon as possible. We need a project manager from each club to help manage the project of mapping all possible trails so as to keep them open. Can I get a volunteer from your club within the next few days?
Patrick@pk80.com
or 310-489-8251.
I would appreciate it if someone from your club would contact me as soon as possible.
The idea is for the project manager to split up the work as much as possible with as many people as possible so that each person is doing a little in helping to map and log the roads and trails so that we can have future access to them. If we fail to do that the roads or trails will be closed.
The project manager’s job is purely to coordinate the effort and follow up with each person to assure the work is getting done. This will be plenty of work in and of itself and will probably be the biggest job in securing our rights to access public lands.
We also want to collect information about each trail as to the significant landmarks and uses of the trail, so that in the event that the government considers closing a trail, we will have a war-chest of information about why the trail should be kept open. (
PS, Frank here interjecting a comment as regards the above statements...... "I don't think the above is too good an idea. I would think the roads and trails should be open for multiple users regardless of intent...... otherwise it opens up the possiblities of divisions within the ranks).
This is a very large job! Just my own personal estimation, but I believe there are over 10,000 trails in just the Southern District. We need the help of every Cal4 member if we expect to accomplish this task in time.
We have created an information form on the internet that will make it easy to enter the information. This form can be printed out and carried on the trail so that the info can be penciled in and then keyed in when the four wheeler gets home. Go to Roughwheelers.com, click on the TRAIL MAPPING link to the form. You can enter information on the form, or print out the form from this screen.
As most of the 4X4 clubs are in the city, and most of the trails are not, I attempted to assign clubs areas that were as close to them as possible. Obviously some of the areas assigned to some of the clubs will be a distance away because there are no clubs on the east side of California and we still need to map those areas.
The project should take place in two phases.
Phase one is to take maps of the area and key in all the information of trails that you can find on the maps. Find as many different maps as you can to cover the area. As you key in the information to the web site, the web site will be creating a data base file, which will plot the trails on our computerized maps. We will email you updated computerized maps on a regular basis so that you can see the trails you have already plotted. It takes a little time and work to get the maps back to you so you should mark the trails you are submitting on the latest update, until you get the next update.
Phase two will be to drive each trail, filling in the missing info on the form. While driving the trails we should be looking for any intersecting or other trails that are not on the maps. We then need to map those trails.
Please have the person who volunteers to be the project manager from your club contact me as soon as possible.
Patrick Johansen
Patrick@PK80.com
310-489-8251
-------------------------------------------------
So there you have it. Like always, the gov't is attempting to reduce your freedoms to hunt, fish or otherwise enjoy the outdoors. Patrick JoHanson is attempting to organize something within his own organization. I don't think he realizes there is allot of support to be had outside of his organization. Take the varmint hunters as an example. I think we should group together with them to increase our numbers and effectiveness.
This brings me to the purpose of this post. Since we are talking about starting a National Chapter of Varmint Hunters, I would suggest that an even more important organization to start is an "OUTDOORS COALITION" of all outdoor enthusiasts in an effort to protect our freedoms and rights to enjoy the public lands that God has given us.
As a varmint hunting group alone, we have little power to affect the outcome of a proposed bit of legislation.
But there are many other groups out there who share a common interest in keeping open hunting lands, fishing areas, camping areas, 4X4 areas, motorcycle riding areas, shooting areas, etc.
I think it is possible to form a coalition of these groups whose numbers would be enormous and who thus have a significant political voice towards protecting our freedoms.
I think it is more important that we develop this coalition of diverse groups than it is to start a narrowly focused National Vartmint Hunting group as has been proposed in this thread.
Think about this for a moment.... The NRA looks out for hunters, there are fishing organizations who look out for fisherman, there are 4X4 clubs who look out for off-roaders, there are motorcylcle clubs who look out for motorcyclists, there are farmers looking out to protect their land usage rights and so on and so forth. They are ALL locked in a battle with the environmentalists who want to close down their lands or activities. Can you imagine the strenght of a coalition formed from these diverse interest groups?
If we want to protect our rights and abilities to hunt, fish, ride motorcycles, go 4 wheeling or farm our lands then we have to get these diverse groups together to increase the strenght of our voice to get what we want.
This, to me, seems more important than trying to start a narrowly focuse varmint hunting group (though I support this effort).
I am willing to work with some of you if you are interested in protecting our freedoms. I will do what is neccessary to contact these other groups and attempt to develop a politically oriented coalition that has the protection of our freedoms as it's goal.
So there you have it........
Contact me at
yak52driver@earthlink.net
if you're willing.......and don't underestimate the effect that something like this can have in securing our freedoms to hunt, fish, ride, camp or otherwise enjoy the outdoors!
Thanks for reading and understanding
Frank
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 17, 2005, 07:28 PM:
Melvin,
I agree. There is no way to hide your scent from a coyote, or much of any good dog.
But what Leonard's magic mist does, isn't to hide your scent, the coyote will still know you are there. But you smell so good to that coyote's nose that he can't help but stand there and sniff at you for several minutes. It's a sensory overload type of thing.
Think of it this way. You are out with your wife, and suddenly the wind brings to your nose the scent of cheap perfume. The kind that you know only is worn by large breasted naked dancing girls. And you know that if you get caught looking at a girl like that, your wife is going to thump you upside of your head. But imagine that same wind also blows in the scent of steaks on the grill, fresh out of the oven pie and ice cold beer.
You know you are fixin' to get thumped, but you just can't help but stand there and look for the source of those other smells!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 17, 2005, 08:24 PM:
Tim,
I have been wasting my time explaining Magic Mist, not as a cover scent, but as a smell that compliments the sound of a rabbit being attacked by a coyote.
Hunters can relate to your explanation so much better. Thanks.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 17, 2005, 08:47 PM:
Tim i haven't had a good laugh like this for a long time Lol...Brought tears to my eyes LOL ...Leonard now why didn't you explain it that way...I was in the dark all this time Darn good Tim..LOL
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on April 22, 2005, 08:12 AM:
Frank, years ago we " CVCA " had the southern California 4x4 club try to get our backing. Someone or some group wanted to stop all off roading. We did back that 4x4 club because it would have affected us too as it would have many outdoorsman. I believe one big problem in my old home state is some of the older hardcore outdoorsman have died off and many have just got sick of the BS and moved out of state leaving it all to the libers, tree huggers and animal rights butt heads. Clubs have alot of say so when it comes to laws being passed or not passed. I'd like to see some sort of National Predator hunting club get started, we could sure use one.
[ April 22, 2005, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
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