quote:

---

SPECIAL COYOTE
REGULATIONS:
A hunting or trapping license is required to take coyote. Coyote may be trapped in western Washington from October 1 to March 15, and
may be taken in eastern Washington year-round;

---

quote:

---

WAC 232-12-141
WILD ANIMAL TRAPPING.
1. The trapping season authorizes
taking of furbearing animals for their
hides and pelts only. Furbearers may
not be taken from the wild and held
alive for sale or personal use without
a special permit pursuant to WAC
232-12-064.
2. Any wildlife trapped for which the
season is not open shall be released
unharmed. Any wildlife that cannot
be released unharmed must be left in
the trap, and a WDFW representative
must be notified immediately.
3. Lawfully trapped wild animals
must be lethally dispatched or
immediately released. A firearm may
be used to dispatch trapped animals.
4. It is unlawful to trap for wild
animals:
(a) With body-gripping traps
EXCEPT by permit to abate an
animal problem under WAC
232-12-142. This includes, but
not limited to, padded foothold
traps, unpadded foot-hold
traps, all snares, and conibeartype
traps.
(b) Unless non-body gripping kill
traps are checked and animals
removed within seventy-two
hours.
(c) Unless animals captured in
restraining traps (any nonkilling
set) are removed within
24 hours of capture.
(d) With a neck or body snare
attached to a spring pole or any
spring pole type of device.
(e) Using game birds, game fish,
or game animals for bait,
except nonedible parts of game
birds, game fish, or game
animals may be used as bait.
(f) Within thirty feet of any
exposed meat bait or nonedible
game parts which are visible to
flying raptors.
5. Game bird feathers may be used as
an attractor.

---

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on October 08, 2004, 10:01 AM:
 
Live tarps appear OK? Like the Have-A-Heart type owned by Have-A-Heartless people carrying K-22's.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 08, 2004, 10:09 AM:
 
Section 4.a) covers it all, too well.

It does list almost all types of traps, except for non lethal cage traps.

I am thinking of moving out of Seattle, maybe 20 or so miles east, I can't afford this place anymore anyways.

What I most was wondering, is what kind of sets would be likely to only catch coyotes, but since I wouldn't be able to use most types of traps, that would render most of those sets un-usable.

I don't think I'd catch a whole lot of coyotes, in a cage trap. lol

The whole discussion is now futile. But, what the heck, let's have it anyways.

Krusty

P.S. After the "star" joke I poked Byron's way, a few different people questioned my sanity, or whether I was just lookin for a(nother) fight... I am going to steer waaaaay clear of Byron, Higgie, Q and a few others anymore. And I would not do anything to any of them.
I imagine they feel the same way about me.
 

---

Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on October 08, 2004, 10:50 AM:
 
Krusty

Like you I had trouble with the trapping vocabulary after first subscribing to T&PC. I found a book by Bill Musgrove and Gerry Blair titled Fur Trapping published by Winchester Press. It helped a great deal in better understanding the trapping articles.

It has good information A-Z but I don’t remember anything about the cage or bucket traps that you might have to use. Either way it is a good read.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 08, 2004, 03:53 PM:
 
Good starting place...

http://www.nationaltrappers.com/
 

---

Posted by wdhunt40 (Member # 184) on October 08, 2004, 09:25 PM:
 
Krusty you will need to take the trapper training course and pass the test to recieve your trapping license. You can get a hold of George Sovie (253-537-3277) he is the president of the Washington Trappers Association, he runs Cascade Trap Supply in Tacoma. He may be able to help in directing you with where you may be able to take the test. WSTA's goal is to have one trapper training session in each of the states regions per year. The Wildlife Department is just finishing the new education materials for the test as the old didn't address the changes in the current laws. It was to go to the printer in September. If you have any othe questions feel free email me at wdmhunt40@aol.com
Wayne
PS start with Trapperman.com and go from there with the links

[ October 08, 2004, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: wdhunt40 ]
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 08, 2004, 09:55 PM:
 
Wayne,

Can you use anything other than cage traps there in WA?
 

---

Posted by wdhunt40 (Member # 184) on October 08, 2004, 10:41 PM:
 
Tim you can apply for a damage permit and use padded footholds, none strangling footsnare, or conibear type traps, the permit is good for 30 days. The catch to it all is that any animals harvested with these style of body gripping traps fur can not be marketed as unprocessed fur (untanned) not even during our normal fur seasons as set by the game department. It is a very gray area of the law.
Wayne
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 09, 2004, 12:09 PM:
 
Amazing, they will let you foot snare, but you can't use a standard foot trap. Can you sell any pelts there, like from called coyotes?
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 09, 2004, 12:18 PM:
 
The complete WA Code for the special permit is here; 232-12-142

Section 5. covers what Wayne said;

quote:

---

(5) It is unlawful to knowingly offer to sell, barter, or otherwise exchange the raw fur or carcass of a mammal that has been trapped pursuant to a permit.

---

quote:

---

(j) "Raw fur" means a pelt that has not been processed for purposes of retail sale.

---

I am searching still, but I haven't been able to find a legal description of "processed" or of "retail" as it pertains to fur.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 09, 2004, 12:32 PM:
 
Tim,

Once you have the permit, and thereby forfeit your fur money, you can use foothold and footsnare traps. And even drowning sets with conibears;

quote:

---

(b) Conibear-type traps in water, nonstrangling foot snares, and padded foot-hold traps may be used for the following purposes with a permit issued by the director:

(i) To protect public health and safety, in consultation with the department of social and health services or the United States Department of Health and Human Services.

(ii) To abate damages caused to private property, domestic animals, livestock or timber, that cannot be reasonably abated by nonlethal control tools. Any person requesting a damage control permit must apply in writing, stating the threat or damages, the nonlethal control methods attempted or why they cannot be applied, and agree to use the above traps for no more than thirty days under the permit granted.

(iii) To protect threatened or endangered species, if such traps are used by department employees or agents.

(iv) To conduct wildlife research, EXCEPT that Conibear-type traps are prohibited for this purpose.

---

These must be checked in a timely manner (as all traps must, I have read and understand the ethics of trapping )

As for furbearers killed with a gun, you can sell them, without a trapping license.
I thought traps might be better at killin' em than I am.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 09, 2004, 08:23 PM:
 

quote:

---

Somewhere, a village has no idiot...

---

Krusty, it is sounding more and more like there are no idiots in any Washington villages, because they are all at the State Capitol building.

Montana is still a reasonable State, and not too far away. Why don't you just move?
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 10, 2004, 06:30 AM:
 
Yup. Trapping is much easier.
 

---

Posted by Curt2u (Member # 74) on October 10, 2004, 07:02 AM:
 
wdhunt is correct. You have to complete trappers training to be eligible for a trappers license. Kind of ridiculous now that you can only use a live traps. Might work on bobcats but won't be effective on canines I don't think. Plus packing a dozen live traps might get heavy. LOL! Cracks me up when they talk about live traps. A foothold is a live trap and so is a snare with the right lock. The traps we use now don't hurt their feet at all. Krusty I have the number for the fella that runs the trapping enforcement up in Olympia. Or you can call and ask to be transfered to Sean Carrels office. He can tell you when the next training will be held in Oly or Vancouver.

Back to trapping. Another thing I thought was funny was the use of the term bodygrip. When they refer to body gripping traps they literally mean anything that hangs on to the body. Body grips, footholds, snares. One change they did make for us licensed NWCOs that handle the damage complaints for the game dept, and folks that have a trapping license and apply for the permit that have exhausted non-lethal methods, you can now again use body grips in water. You can also use padded footholds (which suck) and foot snares by permit as mentioned.

You would not believe this joke of an application I have to send in for a permit to handle a simple animal complaint. That is in addition to sending in a quarterly report that documents each animal and method used for removal. Then you can't utilize the fur even during trapping season like Wayne said. Doesn't make sense. I let my NWCO license lapse while in electrical school. Now that I finished last year I renewed my NWCO license. Frankly, I don't know if it was worth it. Dealing with the game dept. is frustrating to say the least. They don't seem to know much about game at all or the laws for that matter. Like Krusty said, you can talk to three different people and get three different answers. They don't know anything about trapping anymore. It used to be that every game warden was required to have trapping skills. Now they don't train them for this and just rely on NWCOs to perform the work for them. Just a bunch of pencil pushing college boys rocking on their jewels behind a desk. LOL!
 

---

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on October 10, 2004, 09:00 AM:
 
Lance,

I trust you were being sarcastic with the trapping is much easier comment.

Randy
 

---

Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on October 10, 2004, 09:48 AM:
 
Ya know I am starting to think Washington has really gotten the short end of the stick. We must hire the reject Game cops.
Two friends of mine went to a gravel pit to sight in a rifle on the first day of August, same day Bear season opens here.
Three or four Game cops surrounded them and demanded to know if they were hunting and wanted to see tags and license. They complied, had all the right tags to hunt, even tho they were not hunting.
They asked these four cops, "how far off the DNR roads do I have to be before I can shoot an animal?" (the DNR roads are dirt)
They got three answers from 50 to 500 feet, the game cops argued amongst thereselves, never did agree as to what was the right answer.
One of them was a Sergeant but even he did not pull rank and overrule the other three.

GEEEEEEEEZ
Yep we sure are lucky!
Carl
 

---

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on October 10, 2004, 12:05 PM:
 
"Processed" in Kalifornia used to mean if they are tanned or you have decoritive beads or something hanging from them they ar "processed" for retail sale, you know,from your roadside stand that tourists stop at.

Does your state have a trapping organization, or did someone already mention that? If so get with them.
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 10, 2004, 12:34 PM:
 
Tim,

I am pretty deeply rooted here, I have always admired someone who can just "transplant" themselves. But I am not like that.
I dunno where I'd go, how I'd get there, or what I'd do to make a living once there...

Lance,

I do not think trapping is going to be easy, by any states rules, especially mine.
I do think traps are more dedicated, they do not have to see through the jungle to work, really good at holding still, less smelly, and better at "sealing the deal" than I am.
And I know that ten traps are equal to ten man days (or nights) in the field.
I expect it to be a lot of hard work, some of it I'll have to gain the stomache for.

Curt,

I actually talked to the head of the education dept, in Olympia, earlier this week.
He said they are not offering the class, at WDFW offices, anyomore. Only one or two folks were showing up for it, if anyone at all.
To cut the cost of having manpower and office space, allocated for that class, they switched over to a home study course, and the exam is taken at the closest regional office.

They are sending my educational materials by mail.
Though I have found the Minnesota education pamphlet online, studied all of it, and actually learned a lot.

Randy,

Until you try to call a predator around here, don't be too hasty to deem it easier than trapping.
Traps have several advantages, but I expect both to be very challenging, and hard work.

Bofire,

Gee me and Red had almost that exact thing happen to us on opening day of bear season.

Krusty
 

---

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 10, 2004, 03:08 PM:
 
Deeply rooted? Hell, both sides of my family tree, emigrated from Germany to West Central Indiana in the early to mid 1800's. One of my Grandfathers had 16 siblings that survived long enough to marry and procreate. (Finding a girl to date who wasn't kin was a real PITA ) Selling the family farm and moving 2,000 miles was the hardest decision I've ever had to make. But it was worth every drop of blood, sweat and tears that it took to make it. Our only regret is that we didn't do it ten years sooner.

Don't you have any sort of trade skill or degree? If not, you sound still young enough to easily get one.

The world is full of some wonderful places, not going to the one who best suits your personality should be a crime.
 

---

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 10, 2004, 03:21 PM:
 
From what I've heard of the place, all it seems to have is a view. Lousy wildlife laws, no damned coyotes. Believe it or not, and I suspect that more of you will agree than won't, one of the main features I require for a living space is...... coyotes. If it doesn't have coyotes, and I mean the kind that grow sellable fur, I won't live there.

As far as moving to someplace better than where you are, you bet. I hear loads of people living in and around these big urban centers complaining about being laid off, no jobs. I know at least four companies around here that can't find people to fill their vacancies. I've been on 50+ hours a week for two months with no end in sight, no days off either. The work is out there, but if you choose to keep doing the same thing you've been doing in the same places you've been doing it, chances are you'll get the same results.

Krusty,

If you're serious about learning something about trapping, bear in mind that the good people of Washington have done everything possible to make sure it will not be easy. In fact, they've made it so overwhelmingly challenging that they expect that everyone who attempts it will give it up rather than deal with the hassle.

Having said that, also keep in mind that learning to trap is very labor intensive and can takes many, many years to master. And coyotes are about the most difficult of all targets.

I encourage you to use that new Trapper subscription, look up the Washington Trapper's Ass'n, find a Director or other officer close to you that can hook you up with an experienced trapper that will show you the ropes. In most states, I'd refer you to your game warden for that, but it sounds like they're more against you than for you.

Even if you get the help, the equipment is expensive since most manufacturers are making their inventory compliant with new BMP's. Tooling up for coyotes can get costly.

Go trapping with someone if you're lucky enough to find someone that is active in the field, and test the water before jumping in with both feet.

As far as traps being 24/7, yup. I just handled a coyote complaint that started with calling, and transitioned to traps over time. You'll read about it in T&PC if I ever get the article done.

Good luck.
 

---

Posted by keekee (Member # 367) on October 10, 2004, 04:55 PM:
 
I agree! Sounds like the DNR is not going to be any help to you at all. And that is sorry!

When I was a kid growing up Trapping was an every day event for me (In season) Thats how I made my extra money, I wont tell you whet I spent it on...lol..I would run trap lines every morning before school every day in season. It worked out very well and made me alot of extra money. Then trapping lands were hard to get! Lots of people trapped and It was not uncommon to run into other trappers. Now, No one traps.

Im going to start my son trapping this year, water sets. I have been geting every thing ready and teaching him to care for his traps, taking him out scouting the creaks and river bottoms.

He will agree that it is very hard work! The local DNR here is very helpful here. And are happy to talk with kids or adults to help them out. The laws are still set up for the trapper. You just dont see many of them around anymore.

Sounds like the laws there are set up against you not for you and the sad thing is it is geting like that all over, and with no trappers anymore it will get alot worse not better!

I like cdog will start out with problem coyotes by calling and if that dont work then I will trap them, once I tell the land owner I will take care of the problem I haft to do what ever I can to take care of it. And it keeps me in good with the farmers. And the fur ***** the same.

You got your work cutt out for you junt learning the laws! I wish you good luck!

Brent

[ October 10, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: keekee ]
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 10, 2004, 06:27 PM:
 
Tim,

As I said, I admire those who can transplant themselves, I just never have been good at it. I always seem to "head for home".

I have done labor for most of my 40+ yrs, and don't have any kind of trade or degree. Recent injuries have made that kind of work difficult for me, but I am struggling through as best I can.

Actually I am Krustyklimber, not Krustyhunter, I have lived in one of the best places on Earth to be a climber for most of my life, and became very attached to it.
Like Lance says we do have some awesome views, even better ones from the summit.

Hunting is new to me, I've been back at it for about three years now, and I took it up because I wasn't up to the physical demands of climbing anymore (it's way harder on a guy than hunting, or trapping, I am sure).
I am not sure, though, that I love it enough to move just for hunting.

If I had to answer which suits my personality more, hunting or living here, I'd have to say hunting is not it.
Some of my tree/bunny hugger friends believe I have lost my mind, they never would have expected it from me.

I am not sure how many more blanks stands I even have left in me. A new hobby seems like a better and better quest all the time.

Lance,

I did not, and do not, expect to start a "the top" as far as trapping goes... I had assumed I could start like most kids do, running a slough for muskrats, working up to coons and cats, and never ever expected to catch a coyote (we don't have) in a trap.
I would have liked to just give it a try.

I said back when Tim got me to repost this thread, the whole idea of "being a trapper" is futile, and now is just for the sake of discussion.
And you're right the whole thing is so much hassle, I might be just as well off to bail on the whole idea, saving myself $36.00 on a useless trapping license. Not to mention the increased cost of traps that are legal to use, over the cheaper (and possibly more effective) alternatives.

Tim said something to me once and it has stuck with me, that even if I never trapped, the trappers association could use me in their "count of members" helping their bargaining postition. A "united we stand" kind of thing. I understand that end of it for sure.

I don't imagine the search for an experienced trapper will be any easier than not finding a coyote calling mentor hasn't been.
I do have some good resources if I should ever need to, but that is "putting the cart before the horse".
I first should be legal to trap, before bothering to do it, and the season is still a month away (if I read the rules right I cannot accompany another trapper, until I am licensed).

This whole discussion was intended to help me "look before I lept" I wasn't going forward with any action, until I had deeply researched it.
I am not sure, with the small amount of research I have done, I will go forward.

My T&pc subscription seems to have evaporated (still can't get in online), so did the back issues they were going to send me.


Krusty
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 10, 2004, 08:23 PM:
 
I think we need to settle this right now, people.

Exactly what is more important than hunting?

Think it over, there must be something?

The view from the top of a mountain, perhaps? hahahahaha

Good hunting. LB

PS just having a little fun with the K guy.
 

---

Posted by wdhunt40 (Member # 184) on October 10, 2004, 09:57 PM:
 
Krusty get a hold of George Sovie and chat with him, he can get you started with some one in your area. Give me a email and I can see who the rep is for your area to get in touch with. There is all kinds of work in your area as NWCO. You would be amazed at what the trappers have learned about
cage trapping. We have fellow and his son here in Stevens county that took 70 some bobcats last year in cages. And these cats bring top dollar, your cats don't do as well but what the heck at least you can get out and there always time for a calling stand or two. Get on the net there's all kinds of help out there.
Wayne
PS the trappers association is haveing a trappers expedition Nov. 19-21 in the Moses lake area, and Fur Handling workshop in Rochester in dec.

[ October 10, 2004, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: wdhunt40 ]
 

---

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 12, 2004, 04:46 PM:
 
Leonard,

All kidding aside, it wouldn't hurt some of us, to take a step back and actually examine what in our lives is and isn't more important than hunting.

I have been pondering it very hard since reading your joke.
All good jokes are based in truth, and there's a lot of it in that one.

Wayne,

Thanks for all your help, that's mighty nice of ya!

I am not in any big hurry to jump into this.
At this point I am still crunching the numbers.

I had expected to be able to buy a couple dozen 110s for about the price of one muskrat cage trap, and a dozen 220s and buckets for the same price as a raccoon cage trap. And to supplement that with a few homemade colony traps, even a small roll of cage wire will go a long way.

I hadn't yet factored into that the cost of EVERYTHING ELSE!
The books and related equipment, chains, swivels, lures, catch pole, stretchers, fleshing knives, etc... which I would need no matter which kind of traps I used (the links everyone provided helped a lot).

All I got now is a good pair of waders and work gloves, a walking stick, and a .25 auto (oh I also have a pair of cage clip pliers and a small bag of clips, left over from making pet cages).

I still have a lot of research and studying to do, pass my trapping exam, and actually get my license (after reading all the rules, the test has got to be CRAZY).
Then I'll be able to speak the language and know what to ask the guys who are available to help, without wasting their time (turns out there's quite a few).

I didn't know what NWCO meant, so off to Google I went, put in "Washington NWCO" and came up with not only the answer but a bunch of good information, a local referral listing, some used trap listings, all kinds of good stuff. Ya gotta love Google.

This is what it takes to become one; WSR 04-01-053

I got to diggin around on one site, and found this interesting "canine specific" live catch trap, the collarum.. Anybody know anything about them?

Well thanks for everyone's help,

Krusty
 

---

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0