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Author
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Topic: Editorial control at T&PC!!!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 22, 2004 08:41 PM
Just to get your attention. (joke, get it?)
However, anybody read the two articles on coyote hunting?
Forty minute stands? Range finders?
Good hunting. LB ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2004 12:29 PM
maybe, we all, have not received this month's edition?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 23, 2004 07:28 PM
Yep, I read both articles and saw nothing I disagreed with. I know of three members of this board that use Leica rangefinders on stand and I know some that regularly use binoculars on stand. It isn't often those pieces of equipment are necessary in the southwest.
When coyotes go into their lockdown mode a few times each year I often make 30 minute plus stands simply because it takes that long to drag the little guys in by their ears.
Three or four years ago when Jay was calling with me and Tyler the coyotes were coming in at 20 minutes plus. Jay thought maybe they were responding to the sounds and presentations I was using toward the end of the stand so I switched up on the sounds and they still came in at 20 plus. In Mo. I would occasionally make 2 hour stands and would sometimes bring one in toward the end. I know that perhaps the coyote simply travelled into hearing range at that particular time but still I wouldn't have taken them on a shorter stand.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 23, 2004 07:42 PM
Read the 40 minute stand article this morning.
Would not advise anyone to pay much attention to my thoughts, as I'm just a garden variety caller of average skill. But, I agree with the guy. In a lot of the places I hunt in the Utah West Desert, by December, every single coyote has heard multiple calls. A friend I hunt with usually only once per year, who is a much better caller than I am, is a believer in long stands for these conditions. He scrapes more coyotes out of these heavily called areas in Juab and Tooele counties than anyone else I personally know of. I tend not to have the patience, or the "faith" to make those long stands. But, every time I hunt with this guy, I'm reminded that extra long stands DO pay in some circumstances. Last time I hunted with him, we called an area near his home that just gets pounded by neophytes every weekend. I read over on the PM board the other day about guys pounding this same area already this time of year. We killed 3 coyotes that day in January, and missed a 4rth. Two we killed and the one we missed all showed up after more than 20 minutes. For that particular area, that time of year, killing 3 coyotes in a day is extremely, and I mean extremely good. Like I said, he's a lot better caller than I am.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 23, 2004 09:41 PM
Wouldn't you just love to have an aerial view of your calling stand to see just what happens over the course of that forty minutes? Was the coyote/coyotes out in the brush laying down pondering your squalls for 30 minutes, then got curious enough to come in? Or, could it be coincedence, that your long stand simply allowed a traveler to pass within ear shot? Ive made many a 30 minute stand(not any longer), and did have the same scenario occur, at the 30 minute mark, here comes a coyote. Maybe it's a little of both, I don't know for sure?
That scenario doesn't happen enough, for me to alter my technique. After 15 minutes, Im ready to move on to the next stand, where I will hopefully pick up that traveler, that might have came in, if I'd have spent 40 minutes at the last stand.....or not:)
BUT!!! As a once frequent visitor to this hallowed house used to qualify his statements with...."In my area" this is what I experience:)
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2004 09:41 PM
That first article, by a man that lives in Shoshone(!) of all places. I read another article by him in a previous issue.
I honestly never thought about anyone in Shoshone hunting coyotes! I killed my first coyote not far from there; feel that I know the area pretty good, since it was back in 1968. It would be interesting to talk to him, without formal introduction. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Look. I will invest as much time as a stand makes worthwhile....if that makes sense? Especially day stands. You get hunches. Of course, you get late arrivals. When the action starts to slow down is when I would stretch out the stands.
But, sometimes, your time is better spent elsewhere. I've said it before, the key to numbers is quantity. More stands, more coyotes.
I'd like to make twelve minute stands for the first three hours of daylight. After that, longer is okay with me, if you have a good feeling about the spot.
Duly noted: you change the whole equation when you are calling heavily pressured areas.
But, range finders? I dunno?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 23, 2004 09:47 PM
Bravo Leonard! Im with you, range finders?huh
I have a range finder right between my ears, it gives me a precise calculation when called upon. It's either, "nope, thats to long a poke for me", or "Oh man, I got this one"....
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 24, 2004 07:04 AM
The Trapper & Predator caller is probably still the best predator hunting magazine out there, but I dropped my subscription shortly after Gerry Blair stopped writing for them. Fact is, I don't subscribe to any hunting magazine anymore. Why? Because I seem to always end up feeling like I should have written the article myself.
As to length of time on a calling stand, it depends greatly upon the area that I am hunting. Here in western Iowa, the farms are small, coyote density vary's greatly and people population is very high. You have a tough time getting further than 1/2 mile from a public road, and the amount of land that a caller can get permission to hunt is pretty limited. Since the cover is thick where the coyotes spend their daytime hours, it is easy for them to circle downwind and leave without your knowing that you called anything. Coyotes travel a lot during morning hours, so 30-40 minutes on a stand would be worth it if you have your back door covered, or maybe even hunting from a treestand. I still find myself spending about 15 minutes on one stand and then move on to the next one. Range finders? I have no use for one here.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 24, 2004 09:05 AM
Well, I guess everybody MISSED the joke? When Lances' article came out, describing my misting technique, JH got all hot and bothered and called for more editorial control at the magazine.
But, point well taken, Rich. Don't change what works for you because of some article. You can't rerun the same old stuff and expect to get published in a periodical.
For me, since I'm not a (ahem) one dimentional predator hunter, I actually use misting frequently, which can get me a few "backdoor" coyotes, once in a while. The other dimention, of course, is night hunting, and that is where you see absolute proof of how effective it can be.
I don't have major problems with either piece; just wanted to discuss the pros and cons, as it were. Have a little fun with it.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling
[ July 24, 2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted July 24, 2004 09:58 AM
I guess location is every thing. I hunt large pastures. The fence lines are grown up, And the grass ate down.
One of two things are going to happen. They are either going to bust out of a fence line on top of me, Are they are going to sit across the pasture. They are not about to cross these green parking lots.
The rifles I hunt with all shoot under 3" at 600 yards. I run long stands with a range finder. When I have one sitting across the pasture. Up comes the range finder, And down goes the bipod. My last two were taken at 311 yards, And 355 yards. The three before that were taken from 30 to 50 yards.
That is the way I have to play the game.
Ronnie
[ July 24, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: varmit hunter ]
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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elpasotbagger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 349
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posted July 24, 2004 10:25 AM
For me, since I'm not a (ahem) one dimentional predator hunter, I actually use misting frequently, which can get me a few "backdoor" coyotes, once in a while. The other dimention, of course, is night hunting, and that is where you see absolute proof of how effective it can be.
Are you trying to say One fella's dementia is another fella's dimension ?
OR one of y'alls a pee brain and the other fella's a pea brain ?
[ July 24, 2004, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: elpasotbagger ]
Posts: 18 | From: Ciudad Juarez | Registered: Jun 2004
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted July 24, 2004 10:30 AM
I caught your joke Leonard. In fact, It was the cry for "More Editorial Control" and the firestorm created by it that caused me to mail TP&C 20 bucks and now I get the magazine.
The other day I was paging through a hunting mag at the eye doc and came across one of those "Ask The Experts" columns. The guy asking the experts wanted to know if he was safe enough in bear country because he carried a .44 mag pistol, a 12 gauge slug gun and a big bowie knife! That sort of stuff makes me really wonder about some of the people parading around the woods.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 24, 2004 11:06 AM
Leonard,
I did miss the joke, but your point is well taken. Although I have never gotten around to try the "misting" technique, I do believe that the idea is valid. Thanks for sharing.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted July 24, 2004 06:04 PM
I use a range finder all the time when I'm in the wide open spaces of North Dakota. I range the hills, rocks and fences BEFORE the coyote comes in. I know that if he comes down that hill over there he's within "X" number of yards. If he's near that fenceline, he's at "X" yards.
Because almost all my shooting in MN is well under 300 yards, I hardly ever use one.
I generally only make twenty minutes stands in good territory. One evening in Oklahoma, however, a buddy and I were running out of daylight and stand locations. So, we decided we'd make one last stand and figured we'd have about 45 minutes before we ran out of light. We called and at 43 minutes a skinny female coyote stepped out at a ranged 325 yards and I promptly killed her with my .17rem.
Randy
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 24, 2004 09:22 PM
Come on now Randy, fess up my friend, I saw what you used for a range finder when we hunted together in my back yard. The real truth is, Randy flings a few rounds out of the little Makarov he packs on his hip, and if he can't wack em with that, he drops into position with his glorified BB gun:)
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 24, 2004 10:24 PM
No need to blow his cover, Vic. I always take testimonials from "known" peashooters with a grain of salt.....except yourself, of course, and I have seen what you can do with subcaliber gear.
But, whatever turns 'em on! But this kid ain't lugging a "range finder" on a coyote stand. Unless I'm shooting from the truck and it's handy, and it's a fur poke.
Apologies to Ronnie; a man has to do what a man has to do.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 25, 2004 05:44 AM
I use a rangefinder on coyotes fairly often. And sometimes I call when using a rangefinder. But I don't carry the range finder on my calling stands. I have two separate coyote hunting bags, One for calling and one for ranging them and shooting them at long distance. When I call, I keep my shots under 100 yards. Most are inside of 50 yards. When I take the other bag, and shoot long range. I rarely shoot anything less than 300 yards away.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 25, 2004 07:40 AM
Scott Huber, Cal Taylor and Q Wagoner all use range finders and binos on their calling stands. Perhaps as they gain a little experience they will discover the error of their ways. heh heh
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 25, 2004 07:47 AM
I'm one of the rangefinder crew. Never leave home without my Leica 1200. And binoculars. Swarovski 10X42's. Always around my neck. I also use Burris scopes with the Ballistic plex and have them tuned in so that the extra crosshairs denote a given range. I rarely use either, because most of my coyotes are killed at less than 200 yds. But in that rare instance that I get a coyote hung up at 300 to 500, and if it happens to be a coyote that really needs to die (sheep killer etc.) I have the tools. It seems like several times a year I end up killing some out there a ways, and since I've went to this system it sure helps. Also, at the contests it is handy to take a poke at one that has given up on you. Last year at Rawlins I hit a coyote at 450 and took a front leg out right at the briskit, then followed it up with a 475 yd clean up right in the chest. My partner had his Leica and was reading the range to me as I shot. Worked great. As for the binos, I have no idea how many coyotes that has saved me, but alot. And its handy to know that one is coming way out there. But qualify all this to where I live. I can see a long ways from most stands. If I was in the brush all the time, I probably wouldn't need either.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted July 25, 2004 09:13 AM
Cal. I forgot to mention that all my rifles have Burris Ballistic Plex. Except for the two that have Horus Visions.
When you have to go long. Why guess?.
Ronnie
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 25, 2004 12:07 PM
Okay, well, we may have to give that group a pass?
You know, we could expand on these statements, for the illumination of the masses. When we do, when we don't.
If I have a range finder handy....and the situation ALLOWS, I have no reservations in using it. But, I won't trudge it out on stand with me.
However, this is where a flat shooting rifle with a long barrel comes in handy. For most coyotes, out to five hundred yards or so, I don't have much time or need for exact ranging: because.
First, what I'm (usually) dealing with is a coyote that was closer, at one time, had his buddy get shot, and he's confused and frightened. A whisle, bark, coaxer, whatever it takes to get him stationary for a bit and I will use a little Kentucky windage and intuitive holdover, and (if I have him well marked) dust him .
I honestly, do not feel I need a rangefinder to tell me when a coyote is 300, 400 or 500 yards.
I don't like to shoot much past 500 because of the recovery time involved, and when they flop out of sight in monotonous terrain, you loose a point of reference.
A lot of coyotes are never recovered because the shooter didn't have him marked, and is hazy on both the line , and the range .
Believe me, I have wandered around out there many times. A range finder is only marginally helpful in this regard. Even then, once he's down, you HAVE to count off the paces over uneven ground.
I believe every coyote hunter should have a good idea of how many paces he needs, per hundred yards, over uneven ground and around bushes and rocks, etc.
Maybe it's just a coyote, but I don't like to shoot one and walk away. In fact, I don't; and never have.
Also, Ronnie touched on something. If you are familiar with your scope reticle, you should be able to use it and get a ball park estimate on the distance to your target. All it takes is a little homework.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted July 25, 2004 12:46 PM
Leonard, Maybe it's the Cajun in me, But I use the rangefinder backwards.
If he went down at 385 yards. I go out and range back to my stand till I get a reading of 385. Cuts way down on the tromping around. Works great at night to.
Ronnie
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted July 25, 2004 02:18 PM
Ronnie ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm a rangefinder member. I do what Randy was talking about when I get into an area, I find certain markers, whether they be a fence post or bush and make ranges so that I have a good idea what yardage it will be when the coyote enters.
Binocs... well, since I don't use artificial lighting at night, my binocs are an almost permanent fixture of my eyes with the 50mm light gathering. When I see a coyote, down go the binocs and up comes the scope which is also 50mm I'm in constant scoping the fields.
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted July 25, 2004 03:38 PM
When calling cats I sometimes make long stands.It is rare for me to call a coyote after the 15 minute mark.
I never use a rangefinder when hunting coyotes.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted July 25, 2004 04:04 PM
LOL Leonard I got the joke right away but didn’t have time to post until today.
It is interesting to see methods that others use and swear by. In this case long stands and the use of range finders, there are hunters that I have a great deal of respect on both sides of the fence. Each individual has his or her own experiences and goals when it comes to predator hunting. This makes for interesting conversation when kept civil. Thanks all for your comments.
DAA, I have played a little leap-frog out in that country you are talking about. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it hunting though. LOL
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