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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 23, 2004, 10:12 PM:
Jack's post to George in which he states that Western coyotes are easier to call because they are always hungry raises an interesting question.
How many believe that to be true? How many remember the stories of coyotes coming to the stand with a rabbit in their mouth? Or called in from melon fields with their tummies round and full? From mequite stands full of beans? Tyler and I have called many off dead piles, absolutely gorged, yet enthusiastic in their approach.
How many believe that hunger is the prime motivator to a coyotes response?
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 24, 2004, 06:51 AM:
I am not one to believe that the western coyote is easier to call due to hunger.
If one were to presume that the western coyote is easier to call, I would attribute this to the ability to hear the call. In the east the sound of the call does not travel as far due to the abundance of sound barriers. (e.g. big trees, rolling hills). Population factors impact the probability factors on response as well.
So why would an overstuffed coyote respond to a call? Why do we opt for dessert when overstuffed ourselves??
I believe this to be a factor of curiosity as well as territorial protection which will cause a gorged coyote to respond to a call not always hunger.
Posted by Dezertyote (Member # 176) on April 24, 2004, 08:13 AM:
I'm know expert on this, but I've lived and hunted both east and western coyotes.
#1 The population density of the coyote here in the east. (a lot lower than the west)
#2 the food base for the coyote at different seasons of the year.
Summer; mice, moles, woodchucks, chipmunks, small game etc. We have a large population of turkeys, and I'm sure the coyotes key in on the nests and young, along with fawns and other new born.( we have very, very few rabbit anymore) at least here where I live.
Fall;Some of the mentioned above, (the ones that haven't gone in for the winter) Nuts, berries, anything that they can choke down (which doesn't leave much out)
Winter; is a different pattern, a lot of the rodents and small game are in hibernation, and after the snow comes and the first hard crust comes the mice stay under it were they are harder to get to. The sqirrels activity is low in the winter months, reds being more active that the greys. not that their gonna make a living on squirrils.
Winter in the east doesn't leave the coyote a wide choice in his food base.
I'd have to say the harder the winter, with deep snow and low temps is more favorable for the coyote. They eat on the sick and weak deer. You'll find more coyote activity in and around the deer yards in the winter.
This is what you'll find in the yards.
Back to the question Rich, are western coyotes just more hungery (espcecially the southwestern coyotes) I'd have to saw NO
As for the road kill, I've seen more in the west than here in the east.
Just my two penny;s worth.
Posted by Dezertyote (Member # 176) on April 24, 2004, 08:15 AM:
Lets see if this works 
[/IMG]
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on April 24, 2004, 11:46 AM:
Dezertyote, here's your pic...
I had written a big long post, but I deleted it... I'll just listen and learn...
Krusty 
[ April 24, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 24, 2004, 12:04 PM:
I recall a conversation I had with F. Robert Henderson many moons ago when I was just getting addicted to calling where he told me that they did stomach content analyses on SD coyote for two seasons and found that as high as 90% of all coyotes that came to the call had what they would consider to be a full stomach, and that none were emaciated, appeared to be starving, or had empty stomachs.
In my opinion, nearly all coyote responses are motivated by reasons other than hunger, including curiosity (the big one) and opportunism. I regard coyotes as having a higher level of aptitude than your average dog, and are thus, more curious. Something going on in their house gets their attention and I think they act on the compelling feelings to check things out.
We all know coyotes are opoortunistic as hell, and I think that any smart coyote will never pass up the chance to investigate and take advantage of an easy meal. In areas of high coyote densities, i.e., the desert southwest, the resident dogs know they better get on a good thing fast or miss out on the opportunity. Thus, the reason for faster responses in some areas which explains my reasoning that increased responses in high denisty periods is not necessarily proprtional to the higher number of coyotes. Eastern coyote densities are much less and I don't think the need for grabbing at every squeal is as necessary as out west. Opportunities aren't as emergent as they are for their western cousins. Also, the recent confirmation that those eastern coyotes carry wolf DNA contribute, in my opinion, to some of the behavioral anomalies compared to western coyotes. From a cost-benefit perspective - something coyotes are inherently good at assessing - winter coyotes in the east may not regard a measly little rabbit to be enough of a meal for them to waste the energy on its acquisition. As a pack, yarding deer are another matter and offer a LOT more energy. I'm only thinking of comments I've had about how eastern coyote depredate more on deer and larger game than they do on rodents/ rabbits.
As far as the original question and hunger being the onus for responses, no. If at all, <10% of the time. Just my .02.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 24, 2004, 03:31 PM:
Lance, many studies have been made of coyote diets, both scat analysis and stomach content examination. Several states and Canadian provinces have conducted the studies, New Brunswick and British Columbia, Maine, New York, Texas, Wisconsin, Colorado, and Oregon that I can remember offhand.
U of Co.'s Dept of Range Science conducted a study of suburban coyotes scat in and around San Diego.That was kinda interesting by itself.
The largest and longest study was conducted by the USDA beginning in the 1930s, continued for ten years and included the examination of 14,289 coyote stomachs from seventeen states. Fascinating and sometimes a little surprising to learn what was found in those stomachs.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 24, 2004, 08:13 PM:
I called three Coyotes off one dead Cow. I also caught a Bass that had a live Snakes head sticking out of it's throat.
Fish are fur hunger is not the answer folks.
Ronnie
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 24, 2004, 08:42 PM:
My wife, like many wives, has a closet containing at least five times the amount of clothing I have. Where I have three pair of shoes(one pair of work boots, one dress boots and the obligatory tennis shoes)....she will have 15 pairs. The same runs true for all other forms of sartorial splendor. Yet, when news of the latest "white sale", or after Xmas sale, or catalog sales appear...she makes hot tracks to cash in on the bargains, she loves bargains. Coyotes, love bargains.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 24, 2004, 10:46 PM:
Vic, most would have simply said "greed". You give us Kipling. I have never seen nor heard it spoken so well. Pure poetry. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on April 25, 2004, 12:54 AM:
I'm going to toss something out here. I also believe that hunger is way down the list on why coyote respond. I friend of mine has suggested to me that he feels that the reason eastern coyotes are harder to call than western isn't so much related to population densitys( he feels that certain parts of the east have higher densities than people realize) but physiological(?). He feels that physiologically the eastern coyote is relutant to leave the forest. At the same time he feels that in the west that coyotes are conditioned to the open areas and therefore are quite willing to cross open areas where they can be readily seen. I hunt alot along the forest fringe and from what I see happening here I feel that this idea deserves some consideration.
When I am hunting along the forest fringe you have to find areas that allow the coyote to approach the call in cover and any coyotes you see will most likely to be in shooting rangee. They seem unwilling to leave the trees by much more than few yards. They seem to be quite willing to follow a treeline but will seldom stray more than a jump or two away from cover. At the same time if you travel a half hour from the fringe to more traditional western style cover it is quite common to see a coyote cross 800 yards of open field to come to your calling.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 25, 2004, 07:02 AM:
Though I live in East Texas(Heavily wooded). My best hunting is in South and North Texas. So I can relate to East and West hunting in this State.
I have hunted from 14' tower blinds in the South Texas brush country. I have observed Coyotes circling a quarter of a mile before coming in many times. Now when I come back home I am faced with hinting pipe lines, And small pastures. Plenty of dense cover for them to circle and get my scent.
I think Eastern hunters are calling far more Coyotes than they realize. They just don't get the chance to see them. As you well pointed out the Eastern's have adapted to the timber. Being a Coyote we know the are going to take full advantage of the home court.
Ronnie
[ April 25, 2004, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: varmit hunter ]
Posted by Terry Hunter (Member # 58) on April 25, 2004, 11:39 AM:
I will agree with Albert.The coyotes in the east hunt in the woods because they feel safe in thick cover.At dark they are a differant animal and can be seen in open pasture.If a hunter knows how the coyotes can be called across the open pasture without much effort.Early and late in the day.
It is about 15 miles from my house to the nearest town.Almost any day I go to town 1 to 3 dead coyotes can be seen on the side of the road.Does this look like we have a low coyote population?
The coyote population in the east is exploading.Most hunters in the east do not know how to hunt coyotes.
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on April 25, 2004, 03:16 PM:
Interesting Terry. My friends feels that there williness to leave the trees is as much the amount of available light as the cover. Citeing what you just said. Basically that they are quite willing to leave cover in low light conditions. This includes periods of heavy overcast.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 25, 2004, 05:15 PM:
The fact that coyotes are primarily crepuscular would also influence the amount of sightings at those times. Also apparently whether you are armed or not plays some role in sightings. A rancher in MO told me that coyotes always know if there is a gun in his truck. They will come right up to the truck when he feeds his cattle if there is no gun, will not appear if there is one in the truck. Clever coyotes.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on April 25, 2004, 05:34 PM:
Talking about sensing guns I have a funny story. Back a few years ago while denning for Natrona county, I had a sheepwoman losing lambs in the middle of the day, with guard dogs and a half blind mexican sheepherder in attendance, and she claimed that it was a coyote that had been in that area for a while and every time she had a gun it was only seen at long distance running or not at all, so she thought that this coyote could "sense" a gun. I was there at daylight and the coyotes were not near the sheep and not where I thought they would be so I picked a high spot and sat in to wait for the daylight killing. About 11 am the herder started for water with the herd and as I was watching them go along towards a rockpile I seen heads start popping up in the rockpile. It was the old ones and a litter of big pups and the herder was heading right for them. As they got there the old dog picked off a lamb as per daily ritual right in the middle of the whole works. I slipped into range, turned my dogs loose and all hell broke loose. My dogs, guard dogs, herding dogs, and coyotes in the middle of about a thousand head of sheep, with a herder that spoke no english. It would have been alot more funny to be watching than right in the middle of it. But I got the old dog and a couple pups killed and the bitch and a pup or two got away and I picked up the bitch and a pup the next day. Later I went and talked to the sheepwoman to explain what was happening and what all had went on. She was again talking about the merits of this particular coyote and how smart he was and how glad she was that I had got him. I laughed and explained to her that I was pretty sure that he hadn't "sensed" my gun but had "sensed" that 70 grain HP entering his rib cage.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 25, 2004, 07:20 PM:
Ronnie, I agree with you, and it isn't limited to just the eastern range. Q and I got to talking about this very topic - calling more than you realize and not seeing them - on our hunt together last November. At the first setup, we called in a half-dozen that held up about 500 yards out. After some work, the smallest of the bunch peeled away and came in while the rest just sat, stood and watched. Since this ain't the first time I've seen this happen, it got me thinking, and of coure, I've brought this up and had guys relate their own experiences from the opposite direction every time. But, when relying heavily on prey sounds, I usually see one coyote come in, maybe two on a good stand. He comes in hard to moderately aggressive in their mannerism and, in my region, can show up just about any direction. If the foundation for the stand is howling and vocalizations, I'll often see 2 or more coming in at a casual gait and almost always moving downwind of me. Not always, of course, but often enough for me to list it under "rules of thumb".
Now, who knows what's happening for sure, but I think that the guys using rabbit squeals only see a fraction of the coyotes they actually have on the radar because of what I described - one comes in while the others lay back. Maybe the respondant is the dominant top dog, maybe he's the lucky low guy on the totem pole. I've seen both happen. But, nowadays, considering that 60-70% of my area coyotes can be assumed to be part of a pack (and thinking of them from that perspective), if I call "A" coyote, I always operate under the assumption that there are other eyes on me that I just haven't locked onto...yet.
Why might they do this? I dunno, but maybe it's because if all they hear is something in distress, they send in one guy to recon. If it's a hoot owl, he can handle it on his own and once he's finished with the ass whoopin', we can just take it from him. Easy meal - at least for all but the first guy in. Howl respondents, on the other hand, "know" that they're dealing with a coyote, or what they think is another coyote. And he's a mouthy interloper that nobody recognizes. Therefore, let's go do the meet and greet in numbers as a way to intimidate and drive away. If it's the right time of the year, maybe they'd rather head to their alamo and go to warning him and talking smack. Who knows. But, yeah, I believe that guys everywhere call a lot more coyotes than they see from their stand. Timber-rich areas like the eastern deciduous hardwood forests just exacerbate the problem with visibility.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 26, 2004, 06:49 AM:
Lance. I think you are right on the problem.
I have often wished they would make something like the Fish finder for us Coyote hunters. Not to help kill them, But just have a ideal how many have responded. Now how cool would a 2" Doppler radar look sitting on our heads.
Ronnie
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on April 26, 2004, 02:32 PM:
Sounds to me like the coyotes in MO Rich spoke about are already equipped with some kind of radar. The next generation of radar will detect if the rifle is loaded or not.
Randy
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 26, 2004, 03:04 PM:
Randy, They got it. I wont it.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 26, 2004, 04:08 PM:
I used to swear the crows back in Indiana knew the difference between a shovel and a long gun. You could walk with in 25 yards of one if you carried a shovel, but not get with in 100 yards if carrying a gun.
If the crows could do it, why can't the coyotes?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 26, 2004, 04:29 PM:
Ronnie,
Last year, Humminbird had a little fish finder for sale for the guys that fish from the dock or shoreline (aka, can't afford no damned boat) that consisted of a camera unit that floated on the surface with a remote control unit that made it putter all around in front of you with its camera pointing around under water. You motor around until you see a fish, then toss your bobber at it. How worthless as hell do you have to be to sit there with one of those things searching out a fish before you're actually willing to commit enough that you'll toss some bait? And to think, the last time I fished, I was so stupid as to just bait my hook and toss it out there just any old place. The magazine I saw it on had this guy with his son on a dock, all smilin' and stuff, as they reconned fish. And I thought the general idea was to get the kid away from the video games for a while?!?
Actually, those night guys like Leonard are probably using FLIRS equipment already and are too ashamed to tell us about it. Me? The highest tech I can afford is a good pair of wire rim glasses, and I can't hardly afford them anymore. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2004, 06:24 PM:
I don't want y'all to feel bad, and I'm not REALLY bragging, but I have a comment about calling more animals than you see.
I have a couple areas where I call in animals on every stand. On those occasios when I know they are THERE, but they don't show, it's a general condition called spooky coyote. I have to pull a few tricks out of the bag to make them poke their head out of cover, or step out in the open.
This is in what I would call fairly heavy cover.
I have discussed this phenomena before, and don't have any idea what triggers it, but it's a lot like fish biting, and then they don't bite.
Your guess is as good as mine? A change in the weather, atmospheric conditions, moon phase, or all of the above.
However, the point is that I agree. There are many animals called and not seen. That's understood.
While some parts of the country can blame it on forest and/or clearings, and others might believe it has something to do with hunting pressure, and still others, (in other areas), are sure it has something to do with certain vocalizations. All good answers.
Makes it interesting.
Now, many comments, above on motivation. What makes a coyote respond? Many examples of coyotes responding that aren't hungry. No quarrel. I've seen it, myself. But. I do believe that the colder it gets, as the season advances, and the scarcity of prey becomes an issue....they sure as heck ARE responding out of hunger. At least MY coyotes are hungry, under those conditions.
No "always/never" statement, but as a general rule, I think hunger is a prime motivation, particularly in the dead of winter.
It may be obvious, but nobody has mentioned this, up to this point, and I don't want the less experienced among us, to be mislead into thinking that coyotes are always responding out of curiosity; to a dying rabbit.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 26, 2004, 07:34 PM:
I didn't see any posts that implied that curiosity was the primary motivator.
This thread was in response to a statement that western coyotes are easier to call because they are always hungry and eastern coyotes are never hungry
To the confused:
Coyotes responding to prey distress are generally motivated by (in alphabetical order)
1.curiosity
2. greed (bargain hunting)
3.hunger
4.territorial/social concerns
5. X number of emotional and or instinctual triggers that "only the yippers know".
Still confused? Welcome to predator calling. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 26, 2004, 08:17 PM:
Alright Leonard, I'll give you the hunger motivation. In fact, I'll give you, oh,.. three days of it - January 17-20. Outside of those 72 hours, it ain't nothin' more than "Who the hell's makin' all that noise?!?" Bang! Flop. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 27, 2004, 09:06 AM:
Rich has a nice list; I'd rearrange it a bit. My pick for number one motivator would be his #5....in fact, that would be the only motivator I'd list....all else, is pure human speculation.
Ive seen more than one hunter on these boards claim the primary motivator is territorial, the arguement goes on and on....Im sticking with instinctual:)They can't help themselves....the bluelight bargain buzzer goes off, they come a runnin'.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 27, 2004, 12:25 PM:
Vic, you just coined my new favorite calling metaphor.
George, you might want to jump on this up front. Change the name of that dandy call of your's to the "Blue Light Bargain Buzzer".
Vic, if you noticed, I played it safe and made the list alphabetical.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2004, 03:52 PM:
alphabetical, eh? Wussy boy!
I'll give you #5, but as a working theory, I figure they are (also) hungry. Has anybody ever seen a scrawny, starving coyote? I sure have not.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 27, 2004, 04:10 PM:
Here is a contibution from a friend of mine with a degree in wildlife management;
Hey Rich !
Try this on for size, see what you think…………
==============================================
I would bunch 1, 2,3 and some of 2nd half of 4 as simply “Economic Opportunity” (Economic referring to energy budget)
1st half of 4 as “Economic Defense (personal space and offspring survivability to reproductive age)” and rest of 2nd half of 4 as “Mating”
Then:
All of them are additionally bunched as “Competition”, both intraspecific and interspecific (except for mating obviously and then except for tolldogging).
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2004, 06:15 PM:
Okay, Rich. Because he's a friend, "we" (Imperial) will allow him a single vote, just like the rest of us. I note, with amusement, that he has no use for the ambiguity of motive number 5.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 27, 2004, 09:11 PM:
Rich, Maybe your friend has spent too much time in the class room getting that degree, and not enough time in the field.
I gotta go with Vic on this one. They hear the sound of a easy meal and come running. It's kind of like little kids and the Ice Cream Truck. They can be sitting on the couch just finishing off a big bag of Popcorn, but as soon as they hear that music, they grab all of Mom's change and run to the curb. They aren't always hungry, but they hear a treat coming and they don't want to miss out.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 28, 2004, 06:11 PM:
This is good enough to pass along to you .
He doesn’t realize that were talking about the same things only that what Im presenting takes into consideration all the additional pieces of the puzzle (much more holistic , TOTAL COST approach) that leads to “good decision” / “bad decision” as well as actually being MEASURABLE !!! Territory size is often a function of energy spent defending it, vs the amount of sustaining resources within. These are Measurable. Science measures this often. A great one to look up is RedWing Blackbirds. Ever notice they are evenly spaced along the fenceposts along the field ? How is it they are almost all evenly spaced like that , and WHY ? Economics !!!
Risk, Energy Spent, Energy Gained, etc.
McDonalds is an Easy Meal Right ?
It depends !!!!
Would I drive to Flagstaff for some McNuggets ? no. Would I go to S. Phoenix at night for McNuggets ? no. Would I go across the street, yeah if the lines weren’t too long. Would I be more motivated to go to the one that was 2 blocks away, if the McNuggets were FREE ! yeah maybe……
Now… what about that Super Great all-you-can eat Steak House, that you have a gift certificate and exclusive reservations to ?
Would I go farther and would I take more Risk than I would for McNuggets to go there ? Likely.
If I get X energy from McNuggets, and X*10 energy for Steak, obviously if given choices of Steak vs McNuggets, all else being constant, Id take the Steak.
Now what if, and this is usually the case….. all else is NOT constant ? How do you calculate the better choice.
What happens when there is rumor of a Gas shortage ? ( Enter Competition ). Do I really need that extra 5 gallons, or do I get it just so that I get it, and my neighbor whom I have no significant relation with, does not get it instead of me ?
At what point on the curve of influences is it better to Pass up the opportunity….. than to pursue it ? again and not a complete list mind you , Risk, expenditure, reward
Can Animals consciously calculate the Economics ? Can most people, again consciously ? (answer no) But we can measure these factors and time and time again animals seem to know a good economic decision from a bad economic decision…. The ones that are better at making economic decisions, live longer and produce more offspring (again we need to have competition acting) with their same genetic qualities that make them a good economist in the first place.
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on April 30, 2004, 07:18 PM:
Can Animals consciously calculate the Economics ?
In a heartbeat. I've seen a coyote drop a rabbit to catch a mouse. Kind'a like the way I trade in the stock market.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on May 09, 2004, 10:41 AM:
Original Question: "Jack's post to George in which he states that Western coyotes are easier to call because they are always hungry raises an interesting question. How many believe that to be true?"
I don't!
There is so many more factors that influence how MOST coyotes under MOST circumstances respond to a call than hunger that hunger is not even worth mentioning, in MOST cases.
The reason that MOST Western Coyotes are USUALLY easier to call than MOST eastern coyotes is due to the way their environment has affected their behavior.
No matter where a coyote lives, their basic instincts for survival remain the same even if their behavior changes to fit their environment.
The eastern coyote is much more adapted to human disturbance which affects how they respond. For those and other reasons, the eastern coyotes are difficult to bring from the timber and provide you with a shot. Those two circumstances (cover and human disturbance) gives the eastern caller two big srikes against him from the start. The Eastern coyote can still be called and killed but it requires a change in the way you hunt them.
It has absolutely nothing to do with an eastern coyote being a "smarter" creature as some have been led to believe. More wary? Yes! Smarter? Nope!
To the original question again, not everyone uses the same sounds or even sounds the same if they try to mimic the same sounds. Heck I have heard some "supposed" wabbit scweams that sounded more like the screams of a "red breasted matress thrasher". A sound that I thoroughly enjoy hearing when the opportunity presents itself to hear them. LOL!
Take a 25 mph wind and a coyote responds from a half mile in echoing canyon country. There is no way you are going to convince me that every coyote believes the sound they just heard to be "a rabbit" even if you can make the most perfect rabbit sound every time you call. We know that they respond but since a coyote cannot talk to us, the best we can do is to speculate as to why they responded or what they may have thought they heard. Who knows, maybe under the above conditions, they thought they heard a coyote distress sound.
There is so many variables that affect this question from one area to the next or from one season to the next or from one coyote population to the next that there is absolutely no set rules on why they come. Much that is written on why they come is conjecture. We know they come and we theorize the rest based on personal observations, educated guesses, or what we have read or heard from others etc. etc.
As far as stomach and scat sample studies, most of these stomach content studies are taken during the fur season and are a very limited representation of how coyotes change their diets seasonally, let alone from one area to the next.
Let's look at what we do know:
1. MOST coyotes are called in during prime fur season.
2. MOST coyotes in MOST areas that are called in during the fur season are young of the year.
3. MOST coyotes are called in with some variation of "wabbit scweams".
I think those things are fairly consistant so that is what we have to go on.
With that in mind, how can territorial responses be a big factor when MOST coyotes are not territorial at the time when MOST of them are being called in? Think about it!
How can hunger be a major factor when coyotes can so readily switch to different food sources.
Can any of you do the distress cry of the American Plum, Mesquite Bean, or Prickly pear cactus fruits? LOL!
How many coyotes have you ever called in that were thin? I don't think I have ever seen a thin coyote that wasn't mangy.
Hunger can be an issue under harsh weather conditions such as deep snow but "greed" and "curiousity" are much bigger factors because coyote seldom have trouble keeping their bellies full. Deep snow usually creates a situation where other species are dying allowing coyotes to scavenge on their carcasses.
Territorial aspects certainly play a large role with territorial adult coyotes especially during denning. That is not the case with most younger coyotes during other times of the year.
Yes, all coyotes, regardless of age, have some degree of territoriality but if a young coyote got his ass kicked the last time he responded to a pair of oldies stretching out a rabbit do you think it elicits the same response? Of course not! Hence, a "conditioned response"!
"Greed" is always a factor. Coyotes are greedy animals. I can't tell you how many coyotes I have trapped that puked a belly full of lamb at the set after being caught.
Predatory instincts are always a factor. It's fun to kill when they have the energy to do so.
It's hard to pick any single word and attribute it to what motivates MOST coyotes to respond to MOST calls.
If I HAD TO pick one word it would be "greed".....no it would be "instinctual behavior".....ooops, that's two words .......hmmmmmm....... maybe "curiousity"? Sure!
A death wish?......hmmmmm.....maybe they want to see if they can survive a .17 pinhole with a poorly placed shot like their in-laws did? Hehehe! Sorry, Vic it's a character flaw like poking a pencil at a tempermental cat.
To the original question, the answer?
We can theorize all day and the theories with more observations behind them tend to carry more weight than those that don't.
Each coyote has a certain level of curiousity and a certain level of caution based on their previous experiences. Your job is to make the curiousity a bigger factor than the caution.
~SH~
[ May 09, 2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on May 09, 2004, 11:00 AM:
More food for thought:
The term "greed", how does "greed" as we know it apply to coyotes. Do they think "hey, somebody has got one of my rabbits that dirty @$!%&$*" or do they think "hey, that sounds like something I can kill which was so much fun the last time I killed something that sounded like that."
How about "curiousity"? Are they really curious or do we just think they are curious when they actually "FEEL" (hate that word) it's their civil duty to serve their kind by killing anything they have the energy and ability to kill without being killed.
Let's just say it's "instinctual".
Are you more confused than ever?
Good! Mission accomplished!
All good animal research leads to more questions than answers.
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 09, 2004, 11:20 AM:
Scott,
You have no idea how we miss your contributions. It's not right. Find the time, please!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on May 09, 2004, 05:30 PM:
I second that, Leonard.
Scott, welcome, welcome. I do love your posts. You just can't resist that occasional jab, can you?
I do have a question about your statement,
"With that in mind, how can territorial responses be a big factor when MOST coyotes are not territorial at the time when MOST of them are being called in? Think about it!'--------------
Early fur season coincides with dispersal, about Sept through December. As much as 60% of the population is transient at that time, non-territorial but vigilant and maybe receptive. The remaining 40% are residents, including YoY and older betas, which are territorial and usually very busy expanding and maintaining boundaries during what is the most aggressive social season of the year.
My question- do you believe that nomads, those that have not yet established defended territories, do not exhibit or respond to territorial behavior?
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on May 11, 2004, 10:18 AM:
RH: "My question- do you believe that nomads, those that have not yet established defended territories, do not exhibit or respond to territorial behavior?"
As you already know Rich but for the sake of others, the strongest territorial behavior you will ever see displayed is in a pair of adults when their pups are still in the hole. MOST of these territorial adults will throw caution to the wind for the better good of defending those pups. Not all of them but most of them.
The second strongest territorial behavior you will see displayed is in those same territorial adult coyotes that are simply defending their territory but not defending a den of pups. That would be during the prime fur season.
The third stongest territorial behavior you will see is in a yearling coyote that hasn't staked out their area.
The fourth strongest territorial behavior you will see displayed is in a young of the year coyotes that haven't got his/her ass kicked yet and still thinks he/she is 10 foot tall and bullet proof. They're not and they'll quickly find that out unless they are still with the adults ("babysitters") and let the adults do their fighting for them.
The very weakest display of territorial behavior you will see displayed is in a YOY coyotes that have gotten their ass kicked and knows that they are not 10 foot tall and bullet proof. This would also include the coyote that came to "wabbit scweams" and had an amateur burn a hole in their flank. When these coyotes hear a "wabbit scweam", that sounds like the last one, they MAY be heading hell bent for election in the opposite direction especially if they associate it with the sight of a pickup or engine noise, etc.
To answer your question directly, IT DEPENDS ON THEIR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES!
Some nomads may elicit territorial responses and some may not. How would you ever seperate it from other response motives without interviewing a coyote?
My point is that not all coyotes elicit territorial responses to the same degree, especially the nomads, and some not at all so I cannot answer that question accurately with a general answer. There is many coyotes that will fall into that 4th category. You know, those coyotes that show up on the ridge and just sit there and you think it's something to do with you? That coyote is curious but their caution is stronger than their curiousity. Anyone with any calling experience has seen these coyotes that hang up out there.
Those coyotes can be called but it takes a recognition of that behavior and an adaption to a less theatening, more enticing sound.
Again, every coyote has a certain level of dominance, a certain level of curiousity, and a certain level of caution. Your job is to match the right sounds to the right coyotes in the right situations.
What sounds?
Less threatening and more enticing sounds which will vary from one area to the other depending on prey base.
Those who claim to having success with the same sounds in any situation have no idea how many coyotes they are missing.
They only see what comes in. When you hunt coyotes in open country where you can watch their reactions to different sounds in different situations, it teaches you a lot about how much we don't know.
That's the thing about "theories", a theory on animal behavior, especially coyotes, is only as good as the number of observations that support them.
~SH~
[ May 11, 2004, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
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