The New Huntmastersbbs!: Anybody know?

This is topic Anybody know? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000314

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 08, 2004, 09:54 AM:

Why is it that significant numbers of turkey hunters and elk hunters have embraced the diaphram call, while darn few predator hunters know anything about them? They don't seem to be on the "radar screen". Are we too conservative, as a group, or what?

All the chatter seems to be open reed calls, howlers, or electronics. The rest gets put on ignore.

Your thoughts, conclusions, or confessions, welcome.

Good hnting. LB

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on April 08, 2004, 10:47 AM:

Volume...

Diaphragm calls just aren't very loud. That might be an advantage for some guys, but not for others.

It seems to me, the thing about my calls that impresses guys most is the shear volume.
I haven't heard too many guys say they want a nice soft sound.

My brother is quite proficient with a diaphragm call, mimicking many animal and bird noises, but often times I can't hear him call from my downwind position.
I know I don't have the hearing of a coyote, but it seems to me you need to reach out a ways to attract coyotes who you'd otherwise bump in the range of the diaphragm call.

I know with my Carlton's Lonesome Cow bite type elk call, I can talk to the cows from half a mile or more across an open valley, but Red has to be withing a few hundred yards to bugle with the bulls with his diaphragm calls... man feeding stations are fun.

In turkey hunting, most guys start with a louder call like a box call, switching to a quieter slate call once they hear a response, then going to a diaphragm call when they confirm an approach so they can continue to woo ol' tom from a still and mounted postion.
Red often keeps a diaphram call in his mouth, ready to use this same still and mounted system should a predator arrive, but need some coaxing to present a shot.

I think most of the other hunters who use them also tend to sit in one stand and wait for wandering animals to come into the area, be heard making their typical sounds, and then vocally coerced into coming into shooting range...
You hear the tom turkeys gobble, then you "sexy talk" them to death.
Same for elk... cow esterus and pillow talk.

Krusty

Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on April 08, 2004, 11:04 AM:

I like them and use them quite a bit. But hell we can't give away all our secrets can we?

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on April 08, 2004, 11:10 AM:

Just started working with one this year Leonard. Dang... still trying to teach my mouth where to place it, tongue, teeth, roof of mouth etc. But did call in a coyote by barking with it. Amazed with the realization of the sound when I can get it positioned to work right.

however... those hand calls don't take much fussing about. Somedays, I just don't have the patience.

A split double reed was the best out of three I tried so far.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 08, 2004, 11:27 AM:

As far as turkey hunting/ calling goes, I don't know of any other mouth call that sounds worth a snot at reproducing a turkey vocalization. While there are several types of hand operated models, some guys prefer the hands-free wind blown varety.

Somewhat the same thing with elk. Other than a few calls like the Power Bugler, the diaphragm sounds best at reproducing both bull and cow sounds. (And isn't the Power Bugler just a variant in design of the diaphragm?)

Predator calling, on the other hand, finds the closed and open-reed calls quite suitable and adequate for the task at hand. Although the diaphragm makes a very nice sounding call, I don't feel that its authenticity is any more realistic from the perspective of the coyote. As a matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that it isn't at all. Many of the custom calls produce sounds with the same quality as the bunnies (or whatever) themselves. In short, we have our tools, they have their's, and I don't see the predator calling genre jumping on anyone's bandwagon just because some other group thinks it works well. By the same token, there are a lot of things that we have at our disposal that just don't cross over to their pursuit, i.e., misting [Smile]

.

And finally, no one ever like they were going to choke on a Tally Ho. [Smile]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 08, 2004, 11:34 AM:

Crow Woman, I agree. The split double reed is one of my favorites, when I can get them.

Cal, we don't have to worry about giving up secrets, I've been touting diaphrams for years with, what seems like invisible ink?

Krusty, no offense, okay? In my judgement, slightly flawed analysis; however, I do appreciate and respect your point of view.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by albert (Member # 98) on April 08, 2004, 11:59 AM:

I think it's because the "other" calls work well. It simply takes alot less practice to become good at using a hand call. Plus it's a lot more comfortable to have a call hanging by a lanyard than to have a diaphragm in your cheek.

Leonard I think you have brought up a good topic.

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 08, 2004, 03:13 PM:

After hearing Dave Tatum bark and howl with a diaphragm I am determinmed to master the little devil.

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 08, 2004, 03:18 PM:

In no way can I go with volume. These new 15,000Hz diaphragms will split granite. We no longer use the big box calls on the days Toms wont gobble. These 15,000Hz calls can be herd by Armadillos three counties away. Not to mention what I did to the Parrot show at the mall with one. At least Jay got a ride out of the Zoo when he blew the Rhino. I had mad little Kids throwing things at me.

I have called Geese, Fox, Bobcats, Coyotes,Coons, Plus they make a heck of a Hawk screamer.

It just takes a little time. Some of the 3.5 calls with splits, And V notches can produce unbelievable sounds.
Get hold of a MAD Venom, Are a Hyper Hen and you're hair follicles will change places. Now you may have to have a few fillings replaced in you're teeth.

Any sound you can speak. You can reproduce on a diaphragm. Before I retired, I worked at a large chemical plant. One Christmas eve I got on the intercom system, And serenaded the entire plant with "Silent Night" on a Turkey diaphragm. Wont replace Bing's version, But wasn't all that bad.

Can yawl tell I am on some new wild meds?.

Ronnie

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 08, 2004, 03:37 PM:

By the way. I know how to spell it. But, I vastly prefer my own spelling.

And, Ronnie. I agree with you. I don't think most people know how to get volume out of a diaphram call? They aren't hardly limited to coaxing.

You know, nothing beats the tactile feel of a hand call, and diaphrams do present a couple storage problems.

Why not consider the "hands free" advantage? Nothing else comes close.

But forget the peanuts and Copenhagen; you can't do both. [Frown]

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on April 08, 2004, 04:00 PM:

Definately volume Ronnie!

Now since you are on some really good stuff... I EXPECT a serinade of Silent Night in May [Wink]

I'm still a newbie on these diaphragms, but I hope to learn over the years to come.

I like the material that Lohman's use. It's not hard and scratchy and prickly.

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 08, 2004, 05:05 PM:

OK Ronnie, I gotta hear about the parrot show. [Smile]

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on April 08, 2004, 06:54 PM:

I want to hear what the kids were throwing [Eek!]

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on April 08, 2004, 07:28 PM:

Gee Leonard, do point out my flaws huh? I'd like to learn something from my mistakes, if nothing else...

Dang... I just seem to look stupider and stupider the more I post... [Razz]

oh well somebody has to be the dummy.

I can only base my analysis on first hand infomation, and I have only heard one person who uses one... the only sound I can make is a gagging noise, just like Snoopy when Charlie Brown put his leash on... I can't even close my mouth.

Krusty

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 08, 2004, 09:42 PM:

quote:
Why is it that significant numbers of turkey hunters and elk hunters have embraced the diaphram call, while darn few predator hunters know anything about them?

Common sense?

I can't see how anyone would want to have a vibrating piece of plastic buzzing around in their mouth.

I've tried a couple of dozen of them, most are rotting away where I hawked them up. Nasty irritating little things that make me want to cough, sneeze and gag at the same time.

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 08, 2004, 09:56 PM:

Tim, you had me rolling! Your right, it's that,itchy,wheezy,vibrating,gag reflexing piece of plastic, that always has me hacking it, into the nearest brush pile:) Ive heard Leonard several times, use his diaphram call on stand, and I can tell you this, there is damned sure no lack of volumne. Im always impressed by some of the fellas I meet, who can make good sound from the damnest insturments. Thats what makes this game so damned interesting to pursue, there is literally, something for everyone isn't there.

Posted by coycaller (Member # 327) on April 09, 2004, 07:08 AM:

I've been using the diaphram calls for close to 20 years the thing about them is they just don't hold up to extreme calling very long. Where any of the other calls last for years. They are handy when in a tight spot when you want to keep movement to nothing. Like calling close brush ect.

Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 09, 2004, 10:10 AM:

Tim, you need to remove the Copenhagen first...then those little tools would work magic for you... they may not outperform the dueling cottontails, but it is nice to have for stopping coyotes...

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on April 09, 2004, 12:53 PM:

I'm not sure how long I've been using diaphrams for turkeys. I might be wrong, but I think Perfection was the only brand sold commercially, although Quaker Boy might have been selling a few at the time. For me, making all the sounds is no longer a problem and that includes the elk and coyote calling sounds.

I don't use them on coyote mostly due to the fact that I think on a day to day basis, the pee-wee or mini-blaster or some of the others hand calls will out produce the diaphrams. Why? I don't know, it might just be me, but when I've tried them they just didn't seem to be any type of secret weapon.

On the howling end of things, I think they sound all right, but they lack the throatie rattle that I like in the thin cowhorns and the Carlton bells.

Dennis

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 09, 2004, 04:41 PM:

Coycaller. Keep you're diaphragms in the refrigerator with tooth picks between the reeds. Add a little Scope, Are what ever mouth wash you prefer. You can get many years use out of them this way.

Ronnie

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2004, 05:32 PM:

Tim, I actually had you in mind when I said that you can't chew and use a diaphram at the same time. But, choking? Vibrating? You must be using those battery operated diaphrams? [Big Grin]

Ronnie, that's a real good suggestion. Never thought of separating the reeds with a toothpick, and the most creative rinse I have used was plain old water. Thank you!

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 09, 2004, 07:30 PM:

That's why they put Ronnie on the Pro-staff and pay him the big bucks. [Smile]

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 09, 2004, 07:35 PM:

I know exactly what Tim and Vic mean.
The vibrations make my nose run and my eyes water and then I have to sneeze. Holding the sneeze off makes me sweat. When I sweat I smell bad. So now I'm blind, I can't breathe and I stink.
Hell of a way to run a stand.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2004, 07:39 PM:

Geeze! Another whinner! [Smile]

Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on April 09, 2004, 07:46 PM:

I've used diaphram calls for years. Not usually as a primary call. I keep a couple in my wallet all the time. Never know when it might come in handy. I can call turkey, elk, make some great distress sounds and coyote vocalizations. I buy them at discount prices during the summer months and usualy by a dozen at the time. I give some away and use the rest. Keeping them in you wallet is not the best place, but they will still last pretty good. Ronnie thanks for the tip. Leonard I use mine with right along with the Copenhagen. If you can't do it with Copenhagen it ain't worth doin [Big Grin]

. I like the plain old doubles with out the splits.

Byron [Big Grin]

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 09, 2004, 08:03 PM:

Leonard,
I would appreciate it if you would remove the H. [Smile]

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on April 09, 2004, 08:06 PM:

Ah what the hay Rich... you sound like a hot date to me with or without the H [Big Grin]

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 09, 2004, 09:24 PM:

I was heading for bed, But how can I possibly sleep. Thinking about poor Rich out in the dessert. Perishing from diaphragm decomposition. Languishing from latex lesions. O the tragedy.

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 09, 2004, 10:04 PM:

I still like Byrons statement....and words to live by I might add:) "I always keep a couple in my wallet, you never know when you'll need one"
I used to give my son that very sage advice.

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on April 10, 2004, 05:45 AM:

With statements such as above... One can never say we coyotes hunters are not Protected

and ready for anything [Big Grin]

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 10, 2004, 07:52 AM:

"Languishing from latex lesions"
I bow to Mcvarmithunter [Big Grin]

Byron,
sorry buddy, next time you stick one of those things in your mouth, you are going to be thinking about AzHunter and his post. heh heh

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 10, 2004, 08:44 AM:

I do admit, it takes a little practice to figure out a diaphram. Maybe more than a little, for some folks.
(it's a regional thing) [Roll Eyes]

Not the, be all, or end all, but WAY too effective and versatile to rot in your wallet as other latex products are prone to do, mostly from inaction?

And that reminds me, these things are reusable unlike the exotic stuff you can buy in the men's room.

FOR YOU GAGGERS

As Ronnie mentioned, (when I talked to him Thursday), you can bend the call to fit the roof of your mouth, if need be? It would also help ID the top and bottom; in the dark. I have to count the layers with the tip of my tongue, just to be sure I don't have it flipped over. Some of you know what I'm talking about.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on April 10, 2004, 12:28 PM:

Bending them works, and I also trim them a little so they fit better. Be careful triming them, you can easily trim to much. I trim them so they fit just right in the roof of my mouth. It's like whistleing, get the sounds first and then the music will follow with practice.

Don't be afraid to carry a couple in your wallet. They don't leave the little circle empressions that the "hot rod gaskets" do [Wink]

.

[ April 10, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 10, 2004, 02:22 PM:

wienie, whiner, whatever? And he walks just like Chuck Norris, but looks like Jay.

Should those other things be given to daughters, as well?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 10, 2004, 03:39 PM:

Take a nail and make a smal punch mark on the bottom. Just enough feal it. That way you will know which side is up in the dark.

The reson for keeping them in mouth wash is to kill bacreria. They can grow some nasty little critters if you leve them in you're pocket a few days.

You don't wont to wind up out there in desert like Rich. Faulty latex has taken out many a good man.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 10, 2004, 04:42 PM:

If the round thing in your billfold is a diaphragm, and the kind you use for turkeys, you MUST be a redneck. [Smile]

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 11, 2004, 08:50 AM:

Lance, Lance, Lance! [Big Grin]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 11, 2004, 10:23 AM:

Hey Rich, (whisper) I'm kinda embarassed to talk about this, but with all this talk about how good those diaphragms work for callin', I decided that maybe I oughtta try one out. Couldn't find anything at the coyote hunting section, so I went to lookin' around at WalMart. Finally, after askin' a bunch of folks that work there, I got sent to the Pharmacy section. Thought that was kinda strange, but you do what ya gotta. Anyway, the guy there kinda gave me a queer kinda look, 'specially after I got done tellin' him what I wanted it for, but he sold me one anyway. Thought things were lookin' up until I got the bright idea of practicin' it in the truck on the way home. Whew! Thank God there's lots of cars on the road today 'cause I'd have died for sure if it weren't for that young family that saw me in trouble. Those things need a warning label or something. Damn! It took me a while to get it into my mouth. Kept wanting to spring all open and stuff. But, I got it in there. Then I sucked in for that first scream, and nothin' came out. 'Course, nothin' went in either. I was chokin', just sure as spit, and I had to think fast to put the truck in the ditch. The man in that minivan stopped and did that hindlick maneuver on me. Took about four or five tries before it come outta my throat and got lodged behind the back of my front teeth, still all sprung open. Once again, more of what you guys don't warn anybody about. By then, the paramedics were there and you should have seen the looks on their faces when they got hold of that diaphragm call and pulled it outta my mouth. Same look the pharamacist had on his face. Didn't get any better when I tried to explain what I was usin' it for. Guess you gotta be a coyote caller to know about these things, huh? Anyway, after gettin' my truck outta the ditch, cleanin' up the seat and replacin' a perfectly good pair of boxers and a pair of brand new blue jeans, I think I'll stick to closed reed calls. I just can't see how goin' thru that every time I go huntin' could be much fun. Just promise me you won't tell the other guys about this, huh? Thanks.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 11, 2004, 10:56 AM:

My only comfort is in knowing that future generations will be spared, since (by Federal Law) all paint is now "lead free."

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 11, 2004, 11:27 AM:

I can only repeat
Lance, Lance, Lance! [Big Grin]

Posted by Byron South (Member # 213) on April 11, 2004, 06:09 PM:

It's gonna be a loooong summer. Lance, you a funny guy [Big Grin]

.

Byron

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 11, 2004, 06:25 PM:

What?!?!?!?! I didn't think it was funny at all. And dang it, Rich, I spilled my guts to you and look! Everybody knows now. I'm so embarassed.

Think that was funny? You oughtta see the redneck Easter dinner we had at my house today. No kidding. My wife had to work so it was dad and the kids. After eatin' chocolate bunnies and hard boiled eggs half the morning, I looked up from this computer and dang if it ain't almost noon. I asked the kids what they wanted for lunch and it was unanimous - ramen noodles and fritos. Woo hoo! God bless us every one!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 11, 2004, 06:55 PM:

I think it's pretty obvious, by now, that certain qualifications need to be demonstrated, before any retailer should be allowed to sell potentially dangerous devices, such as diaphra(g)m calls.

Licensing would eventually solve the whole problem, or maybe beginning with a threshold PG13 rating. Federal level, or by individual States, they need to act now, before we start seeing massive casualties.

In fact, I think the warning they are requiring on 5 gallon plastic buckets is just the ticket, for the near term....or maybe a certified handler while in the field?

Perhaps a National Advisory Board, we need ideas, warning labels, air bag explosives, whatever?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 11, 2004, 06:56 PM:

Those noodles are only good a good redneck dinner when boiled in beer....

If you guys are having trouble getting the latex to sit properly in the roof of you mouth, go down to the local x-ray technician and ask them to take pictures of your diaphragm for you... you will get a different perspective of how it should sit....

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0