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Author
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Topic: Question for Eastern Hunters
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted March 14, 2004 03:19 PM
Where do you make your stand?Is it in the woods or is it with your back facing the pasture while looking into the woods.Do you set in the pasture and call into the woods.
Some hunters in the east only have woods to hunt.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Swift One
Knows what it's all about
Member # 330
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posted March 14, 2004 05:35 PM
Terry, I guess it depends on what I am hunting for. Coyotes in these parts tend to want to stay to some think cover, but want the easiest (but concealed) approach to their target. In this case I would position myself just inside the woods with my back to the field, but with the ability to keep an eye on the wood line.
Foxes- Grays are a woodland ceature by instinct so I would definatly be in the woods. The Reds from what I have been reading, seem to like more open ares such as grass fields, so if I were to hunt them I would probably be just in the wood line overlooking an open area.
I'm fairly new to pred hunting so I'm no pro and still learning alot from reading these forums that are available on line. But these things have led to me at least knowing that I have called one in (I get busted quite a bit). I have seen them come in and get spooked, have heard movement close in the bush at night, and seen fresh tracks in the snow after I secure ops in my stand and move to a new one. Hope this helps.
[ March 14, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Swift One ]
Posts: 12 | From: Laporte County, Indiana | Registered: Mar 2004
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted March 15, 2004 08:02 AM
I can see very few reason's why you would want to concede or basically give a coyote a chance to get to your backside. That's what your doing if your setting up in the woods with an open field behind you. What's going to happen if your looking left and you have a coyote pop out into the field 100yds to your right? A setup like that requires you to visually cover almost 270 degrees. That takes alot of shoulder to shoulder head movement. You probably won't see it happen until it's to late.
IMHP, you'd be much better off setting up a couple of hundred yards from the timber and giving yourself a chance to see him first and also a chance to get him shot.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Weedwacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 329
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posted March 15, 2004 09:24 AM
I've been doing it exactly like Swift One in most situations. At least for daytime hunting. If I am just inside or at the edge of a woodline calling upwind into that woodlot I am doing it because I feel the predator is in that woodlot or in connected cover and needs to be pulled to my side of it or to the edge and then down the woodline. If it's so thick that I think he will end up right on top of me without giving me time to react, I will back off and try to pull him out to the open or at least to the edge where I can get a shot. I think it's asking alot to stay way out and expect an approach across open ground in the daylight, at least with the majority of coyotes in these parts.
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Weedwacker
http://pub119.ezboard.com/bindianapredatorcentral
Posts: 34 | From: Angola, IN USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 15, 2004 04:01 PM
Glad it works for you guys, but, I'm with Dennis. I would never work a stand like that.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted March 15, 2004 04:35 PM
Dennis,I agree with you and Leonard.Far too many eastern hunters call 20 times more coyotes than they see.Hunting the woods or facing the woods with the pasture at there back.I have hunted with a few in my area that hunt all season and call one or two coyotes.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Swift One
Knows what it's all about
Member # 330
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posted March 15, 2004 07:01 PM
Dennis, are you saying that you would like to have an open space between you and the wood line? I have tried that quite a few times and have noticed that when the yotes and especially the Grays come a stalkin they want to stay just in the wood line with some type of cover- at least in the daylight hours. I like to get my prey a little closer than a couple of hundred yards; more like 50 or 100 tops! That's just me though. Now, up until just recently I did not have a remote caller. I now have a Predation. I will probably be revisiting the tactic that you are talking about now that I can move the caller a little more out.
Posts: 12 | From: Laporte County, Indiana | Registered: Mar 2004
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted March 17, 2004 11:41 AM
Swift
Yes, I want a open space between me and the woodline. I mainly use a rifle and I need to get the coyote in the open in order to get him shot. In the timber area's that I hunt, I mostly set up above and behind the timber fingers that extend into the crop ground or pastures. The crop ground above the fingers usually drop or roll into the timbers. On alot of my setups, I'm far enough back that I really can't see the edge and at the same time the coyote can't see me. This forces the coyote to commit to coming into the open. I'm not sure how many coyotes actually hang up on me on the edge, If I could see him, I'd probably would just go ahead and try to shoot him.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Weedwacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 329
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posted March 17, 2004 02:57 PM
In most areas I hunt in Indiana and Michigan nearly every square-mile section has a road around it and sometimes a road through the center. We don't have alot of wooded river bottoms and drainways extending into the fields. When the woodlots are on these flat sections with roads and farm houses all the way around you're going to be calling from near the road or at the back of a farmstead if you want to stay out away from the woodlot. If you want to get away from the road and the farms and still leave some distance to the woodlot your now in the middle of a bare field and that's no good either. I take the woodlot. If a ditchline, hill, fence line or an idle field gives me an option with longer visibility to the cover I sometimes take it. There is definitely a school of thought among many eastern hunters that says try to always offer the coyote an approach with some cover. Some guys use a shotgun and hunt the thick stuff almost exclusively. I am bumping along here without enough experience yet to have a strong opinion either way, so I would appreciate it if as many people as possible would chime in on this.
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Weedwacker
http://pub119.ezboard.com/bindianapredatorcentral
Posts: 34 | From: Angola, IN USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 17, 2004 03:51 PM
Hey, weeds~
I think a guy should know his business, and I can't tell him how to handle his setups without being there. Depends on cover, sign, history, gut feelings, season, ....lots of stuff.
I will tell you that a road is not necessarily a bad location, in response to your comments about moving into the open, and beyond. I actually see nothing wrong with intending to shoot across the entire field, and just drawing the responders to the edge of the cover. They may be reluctant to step out into the open, but they can't see anything from inside the cover, so I bet they will have no reservations in coming right up to the edge of the tree line. If I'm reading all this correctly, that's all you need, or can expect.
Allowing the coyote a place where he can approach, undetected, or with confidence, is not something I do. I can make an educated guess where he will come from, but I've been wrong often. It depends, completely on how well he is bought into your setup, and exactly where he was when you started your sequence. These are things that you can't know, for sure. And, besides, even if you did know exactly where he was, you could just as easily call his buddy from the other side of the road.
I know it must be tough. I can't really comprehend the problems, just offering an oputsiders point of view. Sometimes it's beneficial, sometimes not. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 17, 2004 05:19 PM
Gawd... I hate to do this, but I have to disagree with you Leonard.
You say, "They may be reluctant to step out into the open, but they can't see anything from inside the cover, so I bet they will have no reservations in coming right up to the edge of the tree line."
I can sit far enough back in the salmon berries that I cannot fire a shot out, and I can still see the other side of a clearcut... and I am pretty sure a coyote could be far enough back in the underbrush that if I had a clear shooting window on my side, he could probably see me, but again my bullet might not penetrate the bushes on his side.
Coming far enough out of cover to present a clear shot is not necessary, I believe.
I could imagine the coyote staying parallel to the edge, peeking out here and there as it could see, and working his way all the way around the clearing without ever venturing out of cover.
It is the same kind of path blacktail deer seem to use... a type of "border trail" gets beaten down just inside the safety of the shadows of the timber.
I dunno maybe I am not understanding the look of the place in question... if it's not pasture here, it is probably timbered.
I like the idea of setting my e-caller on the side of the pasture that parallels the wind (near the downwind corner if possible), at the edge or perhaps ten yards into the pasture. And taking a tree stand position, over the border trail (some twenty yds or so into the trees), straight across the wind from where I set my caller (high enough to stay out of the wind, and see into the pasture).
If I had a partner I'd like to put them downwind, and back across wind on the other side or the e-caller from me, maybe 70 yds or so, and again in an elevated position so he could see down into the undergrowth.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted March 17, 2004 05:28 PM
Nothing is wrong with making your stand close to the road.The farther you walk across the pasture the more you increase the chance of being busted.
In my area coyotes mouse close to the roads so why would they not come to a call.The older I get the closer I hunt to the truck.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 17, 2004 06:25 PM
Krusty, everybody is more than welcome to disagree with my pontifications, I'm not god.
However, I'm a little amused, all the same.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted March 17, 2004 07:14 PM
LB,
Amused?
Krusty
[ March 17, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted March 18, 2004 05:36 AM
When you are trying to call coyotes out of heavy cover into the open, one thing you have to keep in mind is the comfort zone. It's not set in stone, but from my experience, I would say that it's around 100 yds. Movement and concealment is less of a problem the further you get from that point and at the same time it becomes more critical the closer he gets to you outside of his comfort zone.
It's just my opinion, but I feel the closer the setup is the the holding cover, the bigger the chance is for messing up or blowing the stand.
It always amazing to me how a coyote will at times stop in his comfort zone and basically stand there and watch you slowly raise the gun and shoot him.
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted March 18, 2004 06:49 AM
Greenside,
You absolutely hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I personally don't want coyotes inside about 80 yards. Way too much can go wrong. I like 100 yard coyotes. That is an easy range to connect and they are less apt to notice small movements, and also less apt to smell you. But here in most places you can see the coyote coming for several hundred yards. But, If I were calling in the east, or in Krusty country, I would still try to set up so the coyote first likely place to stop and look around was at least 80 yds away from me. I hate coyotes in my lap.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Bluetrapper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 288
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posted March 18, 2004 02:35 PM
Greenside,
I'm with you on the 100 yd. thing.the only problem I have in my area is getting them in the open for a shot.They must be extra wary here as well call shy.In the few areas I set up and try call with 400 to 500 yds. visable they will hang up set down and refuse to cross any opening. Bluetrapper
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M.J.D.
Posts: 21 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 18, 2004 04:30 PM
Bluetrapper, your statements really shock me. Here I am, thinking that coyotes are fairly bold, approaching a call. I think that the pressure back east and midwest must be exceptional.
I remember driving behind Rich Higgins into one of his regular areas, and there was a coyote standing on the shoulder of the road, fifty yards from a farm house as both vehicles passed. It's a common sight. Yeah, they are pressured and hunted and shot at, but they are still bold.
I don't understand the difference?
An Iowa coyote cannot be coaxed across a 400 yard open field, right?
I wish we had video of the last coyote me and Vic got down in his backyard. It was WIDE OPEN, clear visibility for hundreds of yards in ANY direction, and that coyote came right out in the middle of it, within 40 yards of the machine!
I don't get it?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted March 18, 2004 05:13 PM
I make my stands 200-400 yards from the woods.Many times the animals will come within pistol range.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bluetrapper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 288
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posted March 18, 2004 06:24 PM
Leonard,
I don't have an explanation for all of it but I'm sure there is more pressure put on them here than in alot of areas.I believe most have heard at least one call by December.I'm sure I make my share of mistakes also.I also believe they rarely respond to a call because they are hungary.Its more of a territory thing. They rarely bother livestock here unless they find a newborn calf or a female is feeding her pups.They will take an occasional sheep if they are not locked up at night.
Several years ago you could get a shot at one as you drove from one area to another, now as soon as you let up on the gas they turn and run.Bluetrapper
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M.J.D.
Posts: 21 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Bluetrapper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 288
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posted March 18, 2004 06:49 PM
Leonard,
To better explain the situation here I'll give you couple of things we have done.I bought a wildlife tech e caller last fall.I spent two weeks in Dec. going out and howling to locate.I couldn't get them to howl back until 2 hrs after dark.They won't howl in the day at all.One night I went out and located 5 groups within 5 miles of my house before 9 o'clock.The next day I called just one in all day and he hung up at about 400 yds.and wouldn't come in.That night I took a friend with me.He had spent a week with O'Gorman in the 80's and had howled several in in Montana with him, so I knew he knew how to do it.He used a mouth howler and I used the e caller.In 2 hrs. he got 0 responces and I had had 3 groups respond.When you do locate them at night here they always will be in the brushy or timbered areas and never near well traveled roads or houses.I'm not saying its impossible here but it sure is difficult. Bluetrapper
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M.J.D.
Posts: 21 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jan 2004
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illinois farm boy
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Member # 250
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posted March 18, 2004 07:28 PM
i have no problem calling a coyote into shotgun range here in southeastern illinois terrain is most fields are 80a or less a lot of them smaller than that call from fencerows most of the time have seen a coyote get up from less than a hundred yards bedded in cornstalks i think coyotes bed where ever they want no magic bedding areas in most weather conditions have had many coyotes cross an open 1/4 mile coming to the call have had many cross an open field and i still don't see them til they are in my face usually carry an over/under 223/12ga many times have called a place where you wouldn't expect to see anything and bingo it worked i feel a coyote can be anywhere anytime and may be in the mood or not in the mood to answer the call
Posts: 14 | From: illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 18, 2004 08:27 PM
Leonard, I remember that pair. It was in Nov. Not really typical because I'm sure that they felt they were in a safe zone, standing in that farmhouse yard. Cotton farmers don't mind coyotes hanging around and suppressing the rodent numbers. We saw one in that vicinity this year, but he was on the other side of the road in legal shooting area and he was making long tracks before the truck stopped. We rarely see coyotes standing around and staring anytime after January.
That kind of curiosity is hard on the life expectancy of a coyote in populated areas.
Cal and Bluetrapper are correct when they attribute the behavioral differences in coyotes, both east and west, to PRESSURE. Competition hunts in the west seldom attract more that 200 teams. The Mosquito contest in Pa. drew something like 5000 participants. Thousands of exuberant deer and turkey hunters regarding coyotes as targets of opportunity combined with lower predator densities, it is no wonder that the coyotes become as elusive as Bigfoot.
The Missiouri Ozarks are as rugged and thickly forested as Pa. and supports a high density coyote population. Every pick-up has a rifle in the rack and coyotes that stand in open pastures and watch the trucks stop don't last long. All the good ol boys have JS 512s from Bass Pro and several times we have heard the Crow Fight and shotgun reports echoing across the hollows and after a silence JS Cottontail 101 starts screaming from the same location. Followed by NO gun reports. These coyotes have learned that roads and open areas are dangerous and calling a coyote out of the security of heavy cover towards them are an exercise in futility. We had to go into the "briar patch" after them which requires either a partner or an E caller. Scent, sound and form all had to be controlled properly or all we would get is practice. I've encountered these same coyotes in Wyoming and in Az. During the club hunt in Feb. we were calling the creosote flats along a large wash. You called there Leonard, and you've seen video of coyotes coming out of that wash with enthusiasm, all before Dec. It's hunted heavily and by Jan. the survivors just don't want to leave the security of cover. After a couple of dry stands between the road and the wash it was my turn to call and we walked the 400 yards from the truck down into the wash and called two coyotes in quickly. Still they responded stealthily. Typical for hard hunted areas late in the late season. I have a large number of coyotes on tape happily galloping into the call. I also have a large number sneaking in like a cat. One of them is actually crawling on it's belly. Sometimes you can drag one of the "educated" ones in by their ears.
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted March 19, 2004 08:13 AM
I would probably agree on the fact that in some area's in the east, the only possibilty for a setup is in the heavy cover. If that's all the country will give you, you have to take it.
I still think it's a major mistake not to be looking for and setting up in open fingers, that run into the heavy cover. It might only take a couple hundred or more yard walk, to turn the corner, into the coyotes "safe zone". The potential is there, even though the stands might be ten or fifteen miles apart. I'd try my hardest to learn how to work those area's and establish some sort of MO to kill coyotes in them. I'm totally convinced it would add coyotes to your yearly total.
Here's a question for you eastern callers. How many times, when setting up on the edge or just inside the edge, do you bust deer or turkey out from the cover in front of you? Even before you have a chance to sit down? Any ideas on the number of coyotes that you bust out, before making the call? If their not there, you can't call them.
I bet you'd be surprised!
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Weedwacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 329
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posted March 19, 2004 09:47 AM
I can see some of you guys don't understand what deer season is like in a semi-populated area like I'm in here. It is a sea of orange vests out there in November. It is a formidable two week gauntlet of live fire for all legal organisms and a few illegal ones too. I think that's really the context that forms the shy-coyote psychology. When I say I'm dealing with sections bordered by roads I don't mean a little dirt trail or two track. Most have occasional traffic. If you take a stand by the road people are going to be staring at you and waving at you as they drive by. Calling from near most roads or from near the back of a barnyard here just seems flat wrong. Some of the young coyotes start out in September doing regular silly coyote things like following hay cutters picking off mice, or sitting in the open near a road. But, most of those behaviors (and most of those yotes)are eliminated by the end of November. That's not to say you can never pull a coyote across the open. I have only killed three coyotes and one of those came right across an open snow covered field to me, but your going to have a hard time convincing me to expect it as a rule or expect it out near roads and buildings.
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Weedwacker
http://pub119.ezboard.com/bindianapredatorcentral
Posts: 34 | From: Angola, IN USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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