This is topic Howled one in last night...a FOX, that is. Any theories? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Pilgrim on Earth (Member # 314) on February 24, 2004, 06:42 AM:
Any of you fellas ever have that happen? It's a first for me. I howled 3 or 4 times about a minute or two apart and we picked up a set of eyes coming in at 200 yards out. We could tell right away that it wasn't a coyote...But we were a little perplexed why a fox would come to howling.
We let him come for a bit and then started a little squeakin' when it looked like he was going to hang up. He came in a little closer and started quartering, looking pretty nervous...stop, go, stop, go, stop...Then he started heading back out toward the direction he came from, stopped, and just stayed there for a minute or two.
I started the lip squeak...Got his attention, but still stationary. Then I started lip-squeaking with a bit more enthusiasm...That was the ticket...here he came. We ID'd him as a fox and my bro made a nice shot on him.
Pretty scrawny lil dude. Looked hungry. Male. His fur was faded. Just didn't look all that healthy. Never had one respond to howling like that...Maybe he was planning on ending it all by throwing himself to the dogs. 
Maybe he was just hoping to pick up some scraps from a coyote kill?
Either way, he definitely threw caution to the wind because he was plenty close enough for coyotes to run him down...And the wind would not have been in his favor.
What do you think?
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on February 24, 2004, 06:51 AM:
Pilgrim. That is a new one on me. Thats what I love about what we do. They make the rules. All I can do is scratch my head and wonder what they will pull next. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Welcome to Huntmasters. Hell of a first post.
Ronnie
[ February 24, 2004, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: varmit hunter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 24, 2004, 05:45 PM:
Ditto, what Ronnie said. Welcome to the New Huntmasters. Glad to have you on board.
As to the event. You didn't actually say what fox? The boldest fox is a gray, and the stupidest is a kit fox, and the least likely to respond to a howl, my guess is a red, but since I have not had it happen, it certainly does qualify as a WAG.
I just can't put together a scenario that makes sense, but there have been quite a few reports of bobcats responding to howling, or more accurately; distress cry or lip squeak after howling.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on February 24, 2004, 06:39 PM:
I have called in few red foxes after howling. They come in when I am using a distress sound. They are hard to get as they don't stand around. generally they are in and out at top speed. A lot of times this happens when you are in fairly tight cover.
Posted by Pilgrim on Earth (Member # 314) on February 24, 2004, 06:40 PM:
Sorry...It was a red.
And thanks for the welcome here. Looks like a very good forum...Nice to come to a place with "positive energy."
That's what gets me about this whole scenario...All I had done up to the point of seeing him on the approach was howl several times. Another perplexing detail is that it wasn't tight cover at all...It was wide open. Nothing but harvested corn and soybean fields. The closest cover behind him was probably 200 yards or better.
Who knows. Just when you sorta think you might have a few things kinda figured out...
Just like a wise man once said "The more you know, the more you know you don't know."
[ February 24, 2004, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Pilgrim on Earth ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 24, 2004, 08:18 PM:
I know nothing about reds. Two beautifully furred reds in Colorado and a Black-cross in Mo. are the only experience I have with them. Grays will come into distress after howling. I've never had one come only to howls. Pretty cool, Pilgrim.
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on February 26, 2004, 07:14 PM:
What kind of howl did you use ? I understand that there are over 48 voculizations (documented) for yotes. Maybe he thought he might get in on some leftovers.
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 26, 2004, 09:11 PM:
Frank, who documented 48 vocalizations and where and when was the documentation published?
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on February 26, 2004, 09:19 PM:
We have lift off.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2004, 03:55 PM:
Dennis Kirk?
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on February 29, 2004, 07:08 PM:
Hello Rich Higgens !
I feel priviledged to be in discissuions with you if you are the same Rish Higgens that was in that Super Howl contest on THE PREDATOR MASTERS. I am surpized that you were not accused of having live yotes in your yard, your howls sounded so real.
I am confuzed by your question though. What are you going with it ? I admit I feel like maybe Im missing something here. You havent heard there was 48 differnt ones ? Ill look it up again but if you havent read that Im guessing that you only have old articles at your disposal.
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 29, 2004, 09:29 PM:
Frank, sorry to confuse you. You are correct, the majority of the articles, research reports and theses are dated. There are some current studies in progress that are promising. If you would be kind enough to share the documentation that you cited we can all update our information files.
Thank you. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Pilgrim on Earth (Member # 314) on March 01, 2004, 06:36 AM:
In answer to the question... It was just a single, long, lone howl....Some might call it a female invitation howl. Several howls, 2 or 3 minutes apart.
By the way, pleasure to meet you, Mr. Higgins.
[ March 01, 2004, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: Pilgrim on Earth ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on March 01, 2004, 07:17 AM:
Professor Higgins,
I just wanted to let you know, I pulled one of your tricks yesterday.
I was wanting to get a few pictures of my own, and knowing how well I do with temptation, I left all firearms at home. I was actually looking for some Javalina. But after glassing for a while and not seeing anything. I decided to hit a few licks on the Tally-ho.
With in seconds, I had two coyotes, duck under the international fence, and come running down the road to me. They slipped into the brush about 150 yards out. But I was able to keep them both in sight for the next 20 minutes.
I got quite a few pictures, none of which are going to turn out very good. I needed them with in 25 yards for that camera, but could get them closer than 50. I was caught out in the open, standing next to my truck parked on top of a hill. I was amazed at how long I kept them interested. Every time they'd start to wonder off, I'd give a few chirps on my Scercy (SP?) Coaxer. They'd spin right around and come back for another look. When I finally thought I had lost them, I got into the truck to leave, only to have them step out and eyeball me once more a few hundred yards down the road.
I've always thought you were half nuts to call them in and not shoot them, but I can now see how that can be addicting. I may have to extend my calling season a couple of more months this year!
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 01, 2004, 11:18 AM:
Tim, be very, very careful! Calling them in close, screwing with their little brains, learning which sound will entice them back after they've made you, tweaking them with vocalizations to keep them in front of you is extremely addicting. Everytime is a learning experience and soon you will be left with an unsatisfied feeling when you shoot them. You will mentally run all the possibilities that you could have tried if you hadn't ended the encounter with a bullet. Physical contact is the prime closer. Calling will never be the same and contact will become your trophy pursuit. Tim, you had better back off while you still have the will power.
Pilgrim, glad to meet you as well.
Leonard, was that a little dry humor?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2004, 06:07 PM:
Q: Leonard, was that a little dry humor?
A: Yeah, I guess it was? So am I right? Dennis Kirk?
Frank, it turns out that you are correct, he does have coyotes in his yard.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 01, 2004, 07:47 PM:
Rich Higgens,
I got more information for you on that. I was wrong about the number of voculizations though. It was only 42. Was that what you were getting at ? I called ovet to the Doc and he still has it and says his gal will make me a copy for you. Its my dentist of all places, hes a big wildlife guy and Elk hunter, has some great photos in his personal office and the last times Ive been visiting him we talk (well he talks i go Ehhn HUhhhn or Uhhhn Ehhhnn or OW.) hunting and wildlife. I read thru a bunch of the article when I was waiting.
I asked more about it the phone this afternoon , befoer I go pick it up tomorrow and He called it a Perceedings or a Symposiem or something like that of a Wildlfe meetings that was last fall. And that a lot of it is in progress and pre-publications as a way of being reviewed by peers first.
Im thinking about going to that expo deal maybe I can give it to you in person ?
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 01, 2004, 07:50 PM:
Hey Rich I forgot to say, it sure is some dry reading to get to the good stuff. I had to read a bucnh of it real slow. It isnt like Field and Stream or Outdoor life.
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 01, 2004, 07:53 PM:
Leonard are you serious about Rich Higgens having coyotes in his yard ?
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by tonlocus (Member # 254) on March 02, 2004, 06:05 AM:
Yes Frank, Leonard is serious. Rich is a proud member of Local Pack 109. The pack will howl all night unless he goes out and talks to them.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on March 02, 2004, 07:06 AM:
Only 42? Here's 54 of them!
http://www.wolfpark.org/ICRC/sounds.html
Dennis
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 02, 2004, 11:40 AM:
Yup, Leonard and Tony are right. I have coyotes in my front yard when I am lucky. They are in the back and at the sides often as well. Leonard got to hear them sound off nice and close when he was here and Tony got to trade howls and barks with them last night when he was here. When Robb was out here last month recording my howls for the contest on PM the coyotes would answer my howls. It would have have been cool to have gotten them on audio. The coyotes are just a little curious about the noisy coyotes that live at this address and drop by most nights and check in. My daughter's bedroom is in the front of the house across from the spot the coyotes have chosen to rag at us. They wake her up most every night.
Frank, 42 for sure? These coyotes obviously haven't read your "article". I suppose you might count 4 variations of each of the 11 recognized vocaliztions, but why stop with only four. I've heard a half dozen variations on the "challenge" howl alone. I have some on video that sound like a calf bawling, a teenager screaming, an auto alarm. While some sound kinda bored with the encounter and seem to bark and howl out of duty. Tyler and I heard one that we lit up close to the house one night that sounded like a bull mastiff with the mumps. In the meantime I am eagerly awaitng the "article" you are kind enough to forward to me. It will be much appreciated.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on March 02, 2004, 03:42 PM:
Like Rich, And Sheri. I am lucky. I have Coyotes in the front yard, And Bobcats in the back. 
Can you tell me how far I am from that damn Purple 220?.
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 02, 2004, 05:15 PM:
Hi Rich Higgens,
I stopped by the Docs office during my lunch break and picked up the copy. He was busy so I was in and out purdy fast. I am glad you are eagerly awading to see it. I told a couple guys and they just didnt seem to think it was of any kind of intrest, and I had one guy tell me that was all horsehockey. He said yotes bark, growl, howl, whine, yelp and if you really wanted to stretch it, burp. So he only counts 5 as legitimite.
OK now how to get you your copy. I can tell you dont want to wait until next weekend. It is long, small typed, and too many fancy words for me to try to type in here. The office gal said I should scan it into the computer maybe. Beyond me. If I need computer help I rent the kid down the street to do it for me for old issues of field and stream and BASS masters, thing is Im fresh out of old issues Im wiling to give up from his last help session.
I can mail it to you. Or, I see above you teach somesplace so maybe I can fax it to your school for you and they can give it to you. I can just go to the copy shoppe and have one of the bluehairs take care of faxing. It is funny, 20 years ago if I said bluehairs I was talking about old ladies. Now bluehairs is talking about punk kids with earrings in there eyesbrows. Strange how that goes.
What will it be Profesor Higgens, fax or mail ?
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 02, 2004, 05:16 PM:
Varmit hunter I like your picture. How did he not know you were there ?
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Purple220 (Member # 173) on March 02, 2004, 05:19 PM:
Not far enough Ronnie, my Tally Ho calls them in from a lonnnnnnnnnngggggggggggg way !!!!! Think that cat in your pic is the one I got last night, started calling Friday during my cat callin spree. He was pretty run down and out of breath by the time he got here. I think the cat wanted some relief !!!!
[ March 03, 2004, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: Purple220 ]
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on March 02, 2004, 05:31 PM:
Frank, I would love to tell you thats why Kolpin pays me the big bucks to be on there Gold Staff. The truth is, That's why I paid big bucks for a trail camera.
Ronnie
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 02, 2004, 05:48 PM:
Varmit hunter,
I see now. a trail camera. how many pictures of nothing do you get for every good picture ? I bet that could be fun going to the photomat and getting your pictures to see what came out and what you got.
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 02, 2004, 09:19 PM:
Rich Higgins,
Well I went and did it. I had a tuff time choosing but dang it it had to be done since time was running out. We are going to have plenty of time to talk about yote vocals and articles and looks like I will get to do some talking to your front yard yotes. Guess who your taking yote hunting ?
I will want my howler to be sort of like that one tonlocus has over on THE PREDATOR MASTERS today only I need it bigger and will want a hole in it so I can put a string on it for around my neck. You can have that done before we hunt though, so I can work on it before I come to Arizona. How far are you from Tuscon in drivng hours ?
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 03, 2004, 03:13 PM:
Frank, obviously you are the FA Johannsen that bid on our hunt at the Expo webpage. If you hunted with us you would probably go home with more questions than answers. It is a fact that I spend more time wondering about coyotes than I spend knowing about coyotes.
For the amount of money that you bid you can book a hunt with one of the professionals that post here. Steve Craig, Scott Huber and Cal Taylor (alphabetically)are top-notch and they can teach you all that you can absorb. I think we should go to E-mail about this.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on March 03, 2004, 06:30 PM:
Rich,
You are too modest. I'm sure you are as good as any of the rest. But as for guiding, I only guide for big game. I stopped taking paying coyote hunts a couple years ago. But thanks for the vote of confidence.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on March 03, 2004, 06:56 PM:
Frank,
Don't let Rich's modesty BS you. There is a reason I called him Professor.
When it comes to coyote vocalizations, Rich Higgins is the Smartest person you'll ever talk to.
When it comes to talking to coyotes, he's better than even Dr. Doolittle. He's the Howling Master we should all take lessons from.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on March 03, 2004, 07:22 PM:
The reason Rich has all those Coyotes in his yard is a little known fact.
Rich is the remedial howling instructor for those that have been kicked out of the pack for being of key with there howls. After a week are so of howling instructions from rich they can go back and join there pack with pride.
The reason they come to his howling so well, Is because all the little grasshoppers are returning to pay homage to Master Poe.
Posted by Frank Johanns (Member # 318) on March 03, 2004, 10:06 PM:
Rich Higgins,
I can see that you likely dont want to put in public for all to see a fax number or your mail address so I will email you as you request
You have email.
~~~FJ~~~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2004, 10:26 PM:
I just looked at that winning bid. Rich, sell your business, this could be your road to rich's....get it? LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 04, 2004, 05:27 AM:
Yup Leonard, I got it, but don't think I want it. Make an offer for my business and it's your's.
Wow, huge compliments from three of our heavyweights. Gerry Blair spoke for an hour and a half last night at the Phoenix Varmint Callers Inc. meeting and he used my name 4 or 5 times and I almost lost the buttons off the front of my shirt. Now this from my friends. No place to go from here but down so I absolutely have to retire. Thank you Gentlemen.
PS. Gerry Blair is a great and entertaining speaker. Very funny stories. No one dozed for his 1 1/2 hours. At one point he started a story about an aquaintance of his with;
" I hunted once with old "---- -----", he's dead now. Probably a good thing, since they buried him."
Tyler was still laughing about that on the way home.
Posted by huntress (Member # 322) on March 04, 2004, 06:21 PM:
Wow...awesome picture Varmit!!!!
Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on March 04, 2004, 08:27 PM:
Varmit
Sorry to hear about your dog. I do, however, think you dic nailed it when you said Rich teaches the coyotes how to do it.
As soon as I get my hands on that "Learn Coyote Ebonics in your Sleep", THAT'S when I'll start taking down the sheep killers! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Brad
Posted by pup (Member # 90) on March 05, 2004, 07:07 AM:
Rich. Rich. Rich. Rich. Rich. Rich. Rich. Rich.
To a good man.
Well deserved recognition for the Howling God, which is long time overdue. Thanks again for the time you have spent teaching my lame arse. hahaha...
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on March 13, 2004, 06:03 PM:
Rich Higgins,
Did you get the 48 vocalizations figured out at the expo?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 14, 2004, 08:50 AM:
Cal, I didn't go to the expo.
I haven't received a copy of the "article" from Frank yet either. If it does arrive I'm not sure if I should post any of it on the board. It could be hazardous to Scott's health. He asked me once to list the 11 vocalizations that Lehner and Austin identified. He got such a giggle out of the oo-wah-oo(greeting song) that I'm afraid he might hurt himself over 48 of 'em. lol
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