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Author
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Topic: Atrocities
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 08, 2003 08:19 AM
The coyote and his ways have engendered some very deep feelings amongst stockmen and farmers. I've heard and read reports of pretty poor sportsmanship in the treatment of coyotes by these men who have captured the animals alive. I've heard of the coyotes being skinned alive, blinded and released, jaws wired shut and released, one rancher would saw the lower jaw off and release them, another would cut the front legs off at the knee and release them. Many of these coyotes survived for long periods after release. CDog has some personal experience with this sort of thing. Does anyone else?
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted August 08, 2003 10:04 AM
Rich, that's some heavy stuff. I'd hate to think people do crazy chit like that and if they do, there should be a law against it. We, as predator hunters, should and in most cases do have a deep respect for old wiley. To see him mutilated, tortured and released to suffer a nasty death is a crime against nature to say the least. Knowing how humans are, I believe what your saying, it's a sin. I wonder how a rancher would feel if someone did it to their dog? I hope they rot in hell.
[ August 08, 2003, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted August 08, 2003 11:34 AM
Rich, that is disturbing for sure. I've never seen or heard of it myself but there is no excuse. As much as I don't care for livestock meddling coyotes I can't imagine giving them anything but a clean, honorable demise.
Except for during calving and lambing and a couple other opportunistic times of year, the majority of coyotes get by just fine without messing with peoples domestic critters.
Danny brings up a good point regarding ranchers dogs. We actually have as many or more problems with domestic dogs running loose as with coyotes causing problems in some areas around here. They pack up and start getting into trouble. I have more respect for the coyote in that situation. They are usually trying to make a living. Domestic dogs kill for fun and move on to the next victim.
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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sporterweight
Knows what it's all about
Member # 189
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posted August 08, 2003 12:08 PM
I'd guess a rancher that would do something like that has just had it with coyotes ways.Seen mutilated livestock,cost him money and grief,ect.,and is lashing out.
Just doing it out of aggrevation.Ranchers 'some'see animals differently than others,although two wrongs don't make a right.--SW
Curt,I bet no rancher keeps a dog around knowing it has behavior like that..
[ August 08, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: sporterweight ]
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You got space invaders ?-No
You got pac-man ?-No
You got asteroids ?-No -but dad does -can hardly sit on the toilet somedays.
Posts: 91 | From: Meridian ,Idaho | Registered: Apr 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted August 08, 2003 12:47 PM
They must be alot different than the ranchers in this part of the country. They want coyotes dead. Not wounded, not mutilated, just dead. Most of them understand that if you peg leg a coyote or shoot a bottom jaw off by accident you have created a bigger problem than you had to begin with.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted August 08, 2003 12:47 PM
Hi sporterweight. My family and my wives both ranch for a living. I help when I can but prefer other better paying work. LOL! I say this to make clear I have no beef with ranchers. (no pun intended) ![[Smile]](smile.gif) A large percentage of the hunting I do is on our ranches.
I'm certainly not saying a rancher would knowingly keep a dog that participates in this pastime. It does happen though. I've returned ranch dogs to guys 4 miles away caught in a crawl-under snare. I've caught doubles of neighbor dogs in footholds with a third sitting there waiting. Mind you the interior of our property is miles from the nearest house. These dog owners (some ranchers, some not) would not believe their dogs did that much traveling.
When my uncle had sheep we had problems with packs of dogs coming from the nearby indian reservation and a couple distant neighbors. Before more livestock got killed we warned the owners that we would put a stop to it. They refused to believe their dogs traveled that far. One year we eliminated 2 coyotes in with the sheep. Guess how many domestic dogs. 11. Caught in the act. So whether the owners know it or not some domestic dogs cause big problems.
I can fully relate to the frustrations ranchers have with coyotes. But mutilating isn't the answer. Just lowers yourself below the coyote is all, no matter who is doing it.
Later, Curt
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted August 08, 2003 12:51 PM
Have to agree with you on that Cal. Same way the ranchers I know are.
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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trappnman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 168
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posted August 08, 2003 01:33 PM
Cruelty is cruelty-
I have nothing but bitter contempt for any person who would do such a thing.
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Your American Heritage- Fur Trapping, Hunting and Fishing
Posts: 40 | From: Mn | Registered: Mar 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 08, 2003 01:55 PM
I've never heard of anything like that around here. I know plenty of ranchers who have no use for coyotes but wouldn't treat any animal that way. The ones who do have a strong dislike for coyotes seem to hate all wildlife in general anyway. I also know ranchers who manage game populations on their property better than the game department does on public land.
I asked a rancher that I've known for years, if I could hunt coyotes on his property. He smiled at me and said, "Why would I want you to kill any coyotes on my property"? "They eat mice and ground squirrels which is fine with me" "They also catch deer fawns in my barley fields which is fine with me also". They do a good job cleaning up any dead critters I have. He than laughed and said, "Go ahead and hunt'em but those coyotes aren't all bad".
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted August 08, 2003 04:39 PM
Rich, I would hate to ride up on some one committing what you are describing. I cant say what my reaction would be. I do think it would fall under the heading of a felony.
I have heard of some of the cowboys down here roping Coyotes, And dragging them to death. I have been witness to some very gruesome work done on calf's by Coyotes. Will be the first to admit. I love seeing that red halo. I will have no part in prolonging the death of any creature.
Torture is a totally different subject. That is the product of a sick mind, And the Hitler youth program. I think I am correct in saying that part of the FBI profiling of serial killers. Usually shows animal torture in there back ground.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 08, 2003 04:46 PM
Rich is eluding to the fact thatI've chosen to withdraw from another board where I recently saw a video clip of a coyote who's guts were strung out of his sides through exit holes. The coyote was still alive, fish breathing, and the guys in the video were spending the time on video getting "good" shots rather than humanely dispatching the animal. It is not my intention, by any means, to flame another board or to even initiate a dialogue about another forum. But, I think it's important to state that I consider myself to be a sportsmen that treats his prey with respect and reverence. Coyotes are responsible for some of the most exciting and memorable hunting experiences I've ever enjoyed, and I'll someday lie on my death bed and look back upon the hunts I've experienced as being some of the high points in my life, somewhere behind my wife, my kids, and the other people in my life. Like many of you, coyotes and coyote hunting define who and what I am in many, many ways. And, it disturbs me to see that kind of disrepect and desecration involving an animal that I owe so much to.
I certainly understand and appreciate the challenges faced by livestock producers and ranchers with respect to the coyote. But, I also know that those same ranchers and cattlemen are bigger animal lovers than the most ardent animal rights whackos. Many of them may profess a hatred for wiley, but when their numbers drop and you don't hear them yip howling at night, what do you think they say they miss the most? Coyote songs. Go figure.
I'm reminded of a time when I first got out of college. I was dick hard and head strong, wanting to be a game warden and working for the county high Sheriff. A local businessman who was also an animal lover had been witness to something that bothered him a great deal. Not knowing who to turn to for help, and strangely enough, he turned to a coyote hunter. Me. Why is this strange? Because he had gone out to recover a broken down car and while looking for the owner of the car
(a sheep farmer), he looked inside a small steel building where he discovere a still living coyote who's legs had been bound with duct tape and wire, and who's jaws had been wired shut with baling wire around the outside with a stick behind his canines. The coyote had been thrown in this steel building on the dirt floor to die a lingering and torturous death and he said it was at least a hundred and ten degrees or more in that shed. Problem was that the sheep farmer was the high Sheriff's father-in-law. He asked me what he should do. I told him I'd handle it. I went to the Sheriff and, shaking like a cat ****ting peach pits, told him that he would go out there, dispatch that animal and make sure no such thing happened again or I was gonna have all kinds of people climbing up that ol' man's ass for animal cruelty. I told him that if he wanted the coyotes cleaned out to give me a call and I'd be more than happy to help him out, but that, by God, I wouldn't stand by and watch someone, even his father in law, do something as sick and demented as that to an animal, even if it was "just a coyote". The problem was handled quietly and, to the best of my knowledge, did not recur. Damn, that pissed me off, and I won't stand by and watch that kind of stuff now, if for no other reason than the fact that the non-hunting public doesn't always discrminate between us, and people like that. I don't want people thinking I can behave that way. Just my feelings on this matter. 'Nuff said.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted August 08, 2003 05:57 PM
You know what CDOG?
Couldnt have said it better myself, amen brother.
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 08, 2003 06:16 PM
I guess I'm lucky, never had to deal with anything such as described, above.
I've said it before: I usually want to kill every coyote I see, and yet, admire and respect them. I don't think I'm confused, either.
I learned about a coyote being held in a backyard rabbit hutch, years ago. Extremely nervous, didn't stop pacing and circling in it's little 4X4 cage. I shot it, and paid the owner twenty bucks. Needed doing.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted August 08, 2003 06:56 PM
Never heard of such things Rich. But rest assured, when I do shoot a coyote, the most I pray for is that it goes quickly if not instantly. And for any other animal for that fact.
I refused to watch the clip. Just kind of knew what was going to be behind it. At said place, I was told privately that showing a picture of a road kill was not cool, in so many words. Shortly there after, the video clip shows up. Rest assured, the road kill died instantly before it ever even knew what happened to it. hmmm... go figure.
I do not hunt any animal just to watch it squirm and suffer and hear it's cries... I hunt to get the job done in the most efficient way possible.
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted August 08, 2003 10:03 PM
I don’t know what I could add. I agree that animals dispatched by humans should be done quickly and efficiently.
I haven’t heard of any ranchers around here doing things like that either.
I have seen hay fields in Idaho that had nothing but dirt 10 feet in from the sage brush perimeter. Those farmers were darn glad to see a few coyotes. Even those jackrabbits deserve a quick and painless death.
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 09, 2003 04:27 PM
Sometimes the atrocities commited on the coyotes are made more notable by the fact that the coyote survives them.One of the coyotes with the lower jaw sawed off was often observed in a stock yard. Apparently it was living well picking partially digested grain out of manure. A coyote in one of the plains states(can't remember which) successfully raised a litter of pups with her jaws wired shut. I know someone who called in and shot a coyote that was missing 2 feet, 1 front and 1 rear on opposite sides. He said the coyote didn't seem to be limping and the caller wasn't aware of the missing members until it was on the ground. Leonard had an experience with a 'dead' coyote that came back to life in the truck. The topper though has to belong to the Texas sheepman that Dobie reported "One winter day he skinned several coyotes that he had brought in from traps and then threw the carcasses into his wagon to be hauled away. As he was driving off, he heard a slight noise behind him, turned, and saw one of the hideless creatures leap out. The dogs caught it as it ran off. It was, the sheepman said, "a fearful looking thing."
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 09, 2003 07:29 PM
That one is hard to believe, Rich.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted August 11, 2003 05:48 AM
There will always be RARE extreme cases of animal cruelty but the exception never makes the rule. Most people do not treat animals that way.
I have read of some of these extreme torture techniques but have never seen it or know of anyone else that has seen it. As Cal stated, ranchers want coyotes dead, not tortured.
Makes for good "sensationalized" story telling and more fuel for the antis.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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