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Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on May 31, 2003, 08:00 AM:
Cal in Vern Dorn's first denning video he makes a call using just his voice it's a gargling sound,what is this call?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 31, 2003, 09:48 AM:
That's an interesting question! Could it be coyotes quarreling over food? Well, let's see if we can find out? LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on May 31, 2003, 10:34 AM:
Rob, I think that gargling sound is caused by Vern Dorn's extensive quotes in "God's Dog". Such as "He had shared with me field lore gained during his many years as a federal trapper, prior to his public renunciation of the government's indiscriminate killing program. Moreover, he had specifically warned me that finding coyotes would not be easy. "They are the smartest animal in the world," he flatly declared. " At one time I hated coyotes. You go through a period of learning. I got ulcers dealing with a public that never feels there is adequate control. If one coyote is left, they say, "Kill the son-of- a- bitch." They have no compassion, and they are not satisfied until everyone is dead. Today I wouldn't kill another coyote for the world. Why not? Because I know coyotes and I love 'em." And so, because my purpose was not killing, Dorn had revealed his tracking secrets to me." Gargle.
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on May 31, 2003, 12:10 PM:
Rich in Hope Ryan's book she said Vern stated he would never kill another coyote, the book was published in 1979, his last video was made in 1994 and he was still killing coyotes.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 31, 2003, 12:21 PM:
Well, maybe he's a contradiction in terms, as are a few others? I absolutely love coyotes, admire them greatly, but want to kill every one I see? What's up with that?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on May 31, 2003, 02:40 PM:
Yeah Rob, those contradictory dates were the point I tried to make. The gargling sound was Mr. Dorn choking on them. I don't know the story behind his U-turn. I do know that Dick Randall's enlistment with Defenders of Wildlife did not sit well with some ADC men.
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on May 31, 2003, 02:59 PM:
I know what you mean Rich I didn't read the book I just skimmed through it at the libray and noticed Vern's name and read what she had to say.
I already had his first tape and thought it was funny his conversion didn't last long. To tell you the truth I always wondered if he really said that.
Posted by WhiteMtnCur (Member # 5) on May 31, 2003, 03:42 PM:
I've been told by two different men who worked with Vern Dorn that the quotations in Hope Ryan's book, and any other's about Vern saying he "no longer hated coyotes," or "would never kill another," etc, are all false. Vern never stopped killing coyotes.
Maybe this is incorrect, but it's from two different sources, both of whom worked with Vern.
I wonder if it was Hope Ryan's way trying to justify getting so much information from a man who killed coyotes professionally. Stating in the book that he no longer killed coyotes would make her animal rights activist readers regard what he said more highly.
I don't think Vern ever hated coyotes. Seems a lot more like he admired them and considered them a worthy adversary.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on May 31, 2003, 05:40 PM:
Good question and good topic, but damned if I have any of the answers. I really don't know and I've seen the videos. The best I could do is try to find out. I have heard various quotes that must have came from the book you guys are refering to and as far as I know they would be false. I know Vern was still killing coyotes well up into the mid 90's as you guys already stated. I think Vern Howie or O'Gorman would know. I think they were both around Vern alot at the time in question. As far as all Vern's sounds, I don't know? I worked with Tim Fish for a year or so and he had quite a little info on Vern's stuff, but I think he got most of it from O'Gorman. Tim makes the call that Vern called his whistle and O'Gorman sell them. I got some vocabulary from Tim for sure, but I've never heard anything like the sound you mentioned Rob. But it would be pretty interesting to find out. I think most of the guys that have killed alot of coyotes have the utmost respect for them. But they are still always trying to figure out more ways to win the game. The guys that I have been around who were big numbers guys were always thinking about a coyote.
Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on May 31, 2003, 07:46 PM:
I'm not sure that gargling best describes the sound but for me to make the call that's kinda what you do. I think LB might be right it's some sort of puppy sound.
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on May 31, 2003, 08:19 PM:
I talked to a guy that worked with Vern in Wyoming for a good period of time and ask him specifically about the quotes in question and he said that he was misquoted and/or misrepresented. If I remember right he said that Vern had a falling out with one of his superiors and was running a dragline at the time of the interview. I understand that he said he use to hate coyotes in his youth but had grown to greatly appreciate and admire them. He did say that he loved coyotes but the quote was twisted out of context to suit the authors’ agenda. I never had the opportunity to meet Vern but every one that I have talked to that did said that he was a kind man who was passionate about anything coyote. Those who knew him, (truly knew him) hold him in the highest regards including most all of the top ADC men in his areas. Vern hunted coyotes up until his death in 95 and maintained a line of denning dogs for over 40 years. I think if you would back up a bit and look at his record and then take into consideration the motives of the author you could see through the smoke.
Q,
Posted by LKVL (Member # 208) on June 12, 2003, 07:09 AM:
I was watching the video clip that I recorded with Rich and his Son.....just prior to and during the time the two coyotes came in on the dog you can clearly hear the same gravely sound that Vern Dorn was making in his denning video. From that I would assume that most recreational callers would never hear this sound and that the experienced denners would......I don't know.....anyways it's something to learn about. Maybe the G men could explain it????????
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 12, 2003, 08:22 AM:
If you have that sound on tape, I would very much like to hear it. LB
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