This is topic What tells you when a coyote is heading South? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on May 09, 2003, 11:49 AM:
One of my biggest problems is getting people to WAIT for the shot. Having done this for a considerable length of time, I can often tell when the jig's up but have a difficult time trying to convey that to others. One method I use is to sit directly behind the shooter and talk him through a situation. More than once I have held the shooter's arms and let go when I wanted him to raise his gun to get ready and then tried to keep him at bay from taking the shot until I felt the coyote was coming in no further. I firmly believe that more shots are blown due to adrenaline and an uncontrollable need to pop the critter on sight.
Just because a coyote may bolt, doesn't mean that they won't stop and come back to you. Typically I watch the ears and tail positions. Also the hackles. If the hackles are up, you have lots of time. If the head is lowered, you’re not in real danger of being discovered.
What is the one thing you notice that tells you that you are entering a now-or-never situation?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 09, 2003, 03:50 PM:
Nothing is 100%, but I like to see a coyote focused on the source of the sound. LB
Posted by Barry (Member # 34) on May 09, 2003, 04:14 PM:
When they do the one step back thing and pause.The body language seems to say somethings not right here. Its a little diffrent than when they've got your scent.They dont hesitate then,they're gone. Its more like a sixthed sense thing.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on May 10, 2003, 03:45 PM:
When I see nothing but tail, I pretty much know they are leaving.
Posted by WhiteMtnCur (Member # 5) on May 10, 2003, 04:08 PM:
Typically, if a coyote stops facing me, it'll usually come closer. If it does stop, facing me, and then take a step back as Barry mentioned, it's usually time to drop the pin. If the coyote bounces back and stops to look back, it's usually the last good chance I get for a shot.
If the coyote comes in, stops and turns broadside. That usually signifies he's losing interest and it's time to drop the pin.
If the coyote's heading downwind, I try to stop him fast and shoot him.
It's hard to speak too definitively here, because I can think of coyotes that stopped broadside, and then continued to come in. And I've had coyotes stop, step back, and then regain interest with a lip-squeak, drop in volume from an electronic caller, etc., and continue to advance.
I like to get them inside my "comfort zone" of 200 yards or so, depending on the conditions. And once they stop and I've got a good shot, they're down.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 10, 2003, 05:37 PM:
Rich,.... tail.....LMAO. Good 'un, and the only failsafe one for sure. Glad to see you back. I have to go with the turning broadside as one indicator. If they're coming in, it's been my experience that they have a very good idea, within a matter of feet, where I'm at. If they slow down and suddenly turn any way but straight on, it seems that they're setting up their rapid egress. Another uh-oh has to be the coyote coming in at a trot, head down and casual. Not worried yet. Maybe he's coming in at a hungry run, head kind of up and telescoping around to survey the general area around me. Still not a problem. Problems happen when that lowered head raises abruptly or he comes to a sudden stop, raises his head way up, cocks his ears toward me and just freezes, totally zeroed on me. Eyes, ears and nose. Busted. Hopefully, he's already given me the chance to have my rifle up and the crosshairs pinpointed. If so, that's my shot. If not, the shot will be a rapid gun-up-point-and-shoot, if you want a stationary target. Don't know about the rest of you fellas, but once he's given me that zeroed-in look and turns to leave, it's very difficult to get him to stop, let alone come back for more. The 64,000-dollar question at that point is whether to take the marginal shot at a going away coyote and risk missing and educating him, or hold your fire, lay low, and look forward to calling him yet another day. Since I like calling them a lot more than dragging them back to the truck, I often choose the latter.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 10, 2003, 05:37 PM:
What Trevor just said, pretty much describes my attitude 100%.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on May 10, 2003, 07:01 PM:
Rich Higgins... I finally did my mailing yesterday. Be watching your mail. I sent a few extra stuff.
Crow Woman
Posted by Richard Grantham (Member # 107) on May 11, 2003, 12:39 PM:
Reading all the posts here and at PM made me realize how much we react to coyotes when they come in. I never gave it much thought ( I thought) but most of the indications others mentioned are there and we react without consious though when to shoot or wait. This said it does require discipline not to move, or swing gun up or whatever, when you aquire it your numbers goes way up. One of my brother in laws fidgets, sniffles, ect, not my favorite!! one of the other sticks his butt back in bush, sets perfectly still and give no indication until you get up or he shoots. BTW my great memories is of the coyotes that lopes in but starts stiff legging it while glaring at you- then GONE, I love it even though they are harder to hit-- that oh my gosh look , what did I do, what in the hell is this I got into look just tears me up. Richard barber@axs4u.net
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 11, 2003, 07:37 PM:
True, Richard. How many of you guys take a supposedly experienced hunter with you and the guy sounds like a herd of cattle moving through zero cover? Probably one of the reasons I hunt by myself most of the time. One day, for example, I walked a half-mile through waist-deep grass to one of my favorite setups. Didn't see a thing, so I walk out the same path I came in, but just not as quietly as on the way in. I'm walking along lost in my thoughts when this whitetail buck launched from his daybed less than five feet on my right. At first, he comes toward me then veers off at the last moment. I had my rifle off my shoulder but there's no way I would have been able to protect myself had his intent been to get me. Scared the peewoddin' outta me for a second. Then I got to thinking about how uncommon it is for me to jump anything on the way in. No pheasants, no rabbits, no deer (usually). It isn't that I'm better at sneaking in than anybody else. I think I've just taught myself, over time, to learn how to move quietly to my stand and now it's just second nature. Then, you take somebody with you and they're crunching and stomping their way in and I'm thinking, "Geez, it's bad enough that they've got twice as much of us to see, but now they can hear us, too."
There's a lot of things we learn through try and fail that we learn to overcome and which becomes behaviors that become second nature, whether it's walking in or watching a responding coyote's body english. A lot of it, we'd be hard pressed to explain. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
We just know it and use it without so much as a second thought. If asked why we shot when we did, our best answer may be a simple gut feeling that the jig was up. The coyotes and I both seem to run on a lot of gut feelings. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And Jay, I've got to applaud you for taking newbies out like that. One of my pet peeves is the guy that shoots on first sight, even if it's 400 yards away. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on May 11, 2003, 09:44 PM:
Cdog, I know exactly what you are saying I took one of my buddies and his dad out one day. We closed the truck doors and I started whispering what I thought we should do. They started teasing me right out loud and their voices echoed across the sage in the cold morning air. It was bad enough with three of us, after the echoes returned I just went though the motions. We may as well have put the guns back in the truck, built a fire, and broke out the beer. I didn’t have to worry about them taking 400 yard shots.
As for when I know the jig is up is pretty much the way Rich Higgins put it. It seems when the coyote is on his way I’m too busy trying to calm myself down to notice what the coyote is doing. Thank you all for your posts here. Now I have something to look for and maybe help keep me focused on the task at hand.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 12, 2003, 05:39 AM:
Bryan, My dad is (was ) the worst of the worst. His idea of hunting coyotes is from the heated cab of a pickup. Anyway, I tried on at least a half-dozen times out to explain to him as I slowly idled my way to my park point NOT to slam the door, to ease it shut, and no talking once outside the truck. Without exception, I'd pull up, shut off the engine, we'd get out and SLAM!!! "Which way we goin'?" He has since lost interest in hunting (prefers drinking coffee with the boys) which takes the heat off me to teach him how to call coyotes once and for all. Can't get too upset with him, though. God knows he saw me disrupt more than one hunting trip when I was but a wee little gunner.
Having a regular, well-trained hunting partner is worth a king's ransom, though. From talking with Rich, it sounds like he and Tyler have a very effective system between them for communicating on the stand, as well as on the way in. I've finally found one guy that's really looking forward to this upcoming fall and he knows how to sneak in and out. Can't shoot for spit , but then again, neither can I. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ May 12, 2003, 05:41 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Seldom Ever (Member # 185) on May 12, 2003, 11:18 AM:
Cdog, not tryin' to bad mouth you here,I understand your point about trial and error,and noisy hunters,and how important it is to move quietly to your stand. I am just making a point you are most likely already aware of as well.
Regarding those critters you never jump,they are being even stealthier than you are,you can bet your bottom dollar most of them knew you were there and held there ground, it really has nothing to do with how stealhy you were being.
Still hunting is great,and a neccessity for any kind of hunting to be remotely successful. It's great to occasionally shoot a deer bedded down that never knew you were there ,but 9 times out of 10 you'll shoot it when it's already up and trying to sneak away from you,or you'll never see it in the first place.What I'm saying is,the animals you never see or never spook as you
tippie-toe by,either weren't there to do so,or saw you and chose to remain still and hope they weren't seen. It has very little to do with how stealthy you are.A grouse will hold it's ground and flush after you walk by,whether you are noisy or stealthy, just because they can,and I think they must have a thing for the smell of filled drawers as well !
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on May 12, 2003, 12:22 PM:
Still hunting is a neccessity to be even remotely successful? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Interesting, Good Hunting.
Posted by varmint101 (Member # 41) on May 13, 2003, 09:12 AM:
I don't know about still hunting being the most successful if you are hunting on a (literally) stand, but I do know still hunting is my favorite. That's the only way I hunt deer is sneaking up on them, of course that may explain why I've never taken any larger than an 8 lol. Anyways, good tips here from everyone. I'm still new and it's good to know these things. Thanks and good hunting.
Matt
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on May 13, 2003, 03:25 PM:
Still hunting is finding a spot that you think the animal you are after well cross as you wait in ambush, a tree stand is still hunting. Stalking an animal is not the same thing. In my opinion when predator calling, you are trying to get the animal to come to you by tricking it, you could call that still hunting, I don't, I call it making a stand. What ever you call it, just get out and do it before you get to old LOL, Good Hunting.
Posted by Seldom Ever (Member # 185) on May 13, 2003, 03:32 PM:
Here in these hills I call home,onecoyote,still hunting is what is referred to as slipping and sliding thru the woods,sneakin' and peepin'.Hunting from a stand of any type, is called "Stand" hunting.Makes sense,no ?
It's all a matter of semantics.Perhaps now that you are armed with my definition of still hunting,you'll see my first post in a different light ?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 13, 2003, 03:38 PM:
Not taking sides, but Danny ain't right. LB
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 13, 2003, 04:16 PM:
Seldom, I agree, and no offense taken. In fact, I've taken what you wrote under consideration and will add to it. But first, Danny, I agree with you, kinda maybe. I've often wondered why they call it still hunting when you are anything BUT. All I've ever heard described as still hunting is to move slowly and deliberately through the woods as you seek and search out your prey. Again, a matter of perception of the term, but the only way you can communicate and have a dialogue with another hunter is if everyone's on the same sheet of music. For my purposes, still hunting will be defined as hunting by moving slowly through the cover, hunting the entire time.
Now, back to Seldom. Years ago, when I used to hunt coyotes by "other means" in addition to calling, we'd run them out of the cover using any motorized means available, including motorcyles. I qucikly learned that a coyote may, as you describe, hold his ground for the first pass, but if you have a second bike bring up the rear about a hundred yards behind the first, they just can't keep their cool. Many more coyotes will stand up for that second "flusher" that would otherwise never even been seen. As you describe, I've seen that often with all other forms of wildlife while still hunting. If you want to see what's around you, stop often. It's while you're stationary that they'll lose their cool. Therefore, one of those things that I just do out of habit today is to identify where I want to go, determine the best route to get there, then move quietly from point A to point B without stopping unless I have to. I think that buck stayed still because I gave no indication that I knew he was there. Who knows for sure if it translates into better set ups, but it stands to reason. Thanks for forcing me to think it through.
Posted by Seldom Ever (Member # 185) on May 13, 2003, 04:26 PM:
Cdog,thanks for seeing my post for what it was,a discussion,and in no way intended as a holier than though insult. What I was doing was adding to and expounding upon what you'd already said.
Who the heck is Danny,I get lost when you guys call each other by your first name ?
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I have absolutely zilch experience at calling coyotes or any other predator [not counting crows,I've killed a pile of them with a call and a good shot on the first one to show up].I've never been calling the first time, so I am really excited and want to learn all I can about it.So thanks for sharing and allowing me to be a part of this.
I have been hunting deer,grouse,and more than anything jump shooting ducks and geese,for 25+ years, so I do have some general hunting experience.
The thing you used to do with coyotes and motorcycles,we do with people here,we drive deer the last few days of the season,when they are hiding in the thickets and budging only at night.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 13, 2003, 05:36 PM:
Sorry for the confusion, SE. Danny Batistini,
El Monte Union High School, class of 1961, famous predator hunter, part time sage and Guru; currently residing in the high desert community of Apple Valley, CA.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Seldom Ever (Member # 185) on May 13, 2003, 05:51 PM:
Yeah,but what nick does he use on this board ?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 13, 2003, 06:39 PM:
Scroll^ baby!
Posted by Seldom Ever (Member # 185) on May 14, 2003, 12:37 AM:
Ahh,must be ol' uno cayate',eh ?
Posted by varmint101 (Member # 41) on May 14, 2003, 09:00 AM:
LOL even I noticed the Apple Valley under onecoyote lol. Seldom Ever's definition of still hunting was what I was talking about. Stalking would be when you cut across the tracks and follow them to the soon-to-be victim, to me that's what it is anyways. Apples and oranges though lol.
Hey SE, I think we're in the same boat when it comes to predator hunting. If you ever roll on through Indiana, not that anyone ever does except for when we have the Indy 500 & Brickyard 400 it seems, let me know. Season is year round and crows are half the year. I despise crows and it's fun! Later
Matt
Posted by Seldom Ever (Member # 185) on May 14, 2003, 09:59 AM:
It's a bet Varmint 101, likewise here.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on May 14, 2003, 10:13 AM:
Geezzz Leonard, I'm not right AGAIN? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Oh well, back to the books LOL. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Emmm, I don't care what you all think, I think I'm right, so there, Good Hunting.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 14, 2003, 07:17 PM:
Okay, Danny. You can consider yourself "right", fine with me.
The problem is that the name of this hunting technique; STILL HUNTING is descriptive enough, but it conjures up something totally different. I don't know who coined the phrase, but it's confusing as hell, if you don't know what is meant by it.
Basically, it is sneaking and pausing and sneaking some more, and pausing frequently, and continuing to pause and then advance by stealth. Some people think they do it correctly, but they are way too fast. Done properly, you could require an hour to advance a quarter mile.
Whatever, that's the general concept.
What you believe to be "still hunting" is actually making a stand.
Don't blame me, I didn't invent it.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on May 14, 2003, 08:26 PM:
I don't know who coined the phrase either. Dr. Saxton Pope described Ishi's method of hunting as still hunting. Ishi's instruction to the Dr."Walk little, look much."
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on May 15, 2003, 12:05 PM:
I'm always willing to learn something new. You're right though, it is confusing for a simple brain like mine. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Sneaking and pausing = stalking? No it = still? I'm so lost LOL. No matter, I don't hunt like that anyways, Or do I? Awww the heck with it, I'm going to take a nap. Good Hunting.
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