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Author
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Topic: Cripples
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted April 19, 2003 03:21 PM
I have never seen a cripple running with another coyote or pack. I've seen many crippled or injured adults by themselves but never in the company of others. Does anyone know if coyotes will or will not tolerate a crippled pack member?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 19, 2003 04:24 PM
That's an interesting ovservation, Rich. Every one I have encountered has been a single, come to think of it? I wonder if they just can't keep up? Of course, maybe we haven't seen enough to form broad conclusions?
Anybody else?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32365 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted April 19, 2003 04:43 PM
Limpy will sometimes travel with one other but for the most part he is on his own.
Crow Woman
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted April 19, 2003 05:47 PM
I know for a fact a three legged coyote won't starve to death. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I also remember seeing cripples only by themselves. Maybe other coyotes will not associate with cripples because they can sense something is wrong. Who really knows? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) Good Hunting.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted April 19, 2003 06:44 PM
So Sheri, is this Limpy the coyote that you systematically dismantled like that poor knight in Monte Python? Heh heh heh.
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted April 19, 2003 07:25 PM
Rich, Back in November last year I was with Burton when we took two people out from Seattle. I was watching a cripple when one of our people shot at another dog. That one and two others ran off including the cripple.
This past March I missed a cripple running with two other dogs at the same place. Took one of the healthy ones though. Two weeks later I went back with Crittermisser and called in a pair at the same spot. Missed one with the 450 but ol Crittermisser took the cripple. It was a female.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted April 19, 2003 07:25 PM
When you say cripple Rich, does that include 3 legged coyotes?
Not sure if the following falls under the crippled heading or not. I called a group of 4 a couple years back. It appeared to be two large adults and two younger coyotes. The biggest coyote was the boldest and came in harder than the rest. The others were close behind. I didn't notice anything wrong with any of them till I shot the lead one. The rest of the group bolted and I got one of the smaller ones before they made it out of the small valley. The other large coyote of the group was leading the rest on the way out and I could see now had only three legs. Didn't seem to be hampering it's running ability much so it may not be considered a cripple I guess.
Other than this though, the real crippled up ones I have seen were all by themselves if I remember right. These were usually foot injuries of some kind. Bullet holes in feet or snare or trap injury that made them fall into the "limpy" category. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) These type would definitely affected how fast they traveled and it was alone. Makes sense I suppose.
Take care, Curt
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted April 19, 2003 08:05 PM
So Sheri, is this Limpy the coyote that you systematically dismantled like that poor knight in Monte Python? Heh heh heh.
Yes Rich H... the very same one.
Crow Woman
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted April 19, 2003 11:25 PM
Humm, a three legged coyote = one that meet a trap and I've killed a few of them, they seem to do real good with only three legs, thats all I was saying, Good Hunting.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 19, 2003 11:44 PM
Well, what I mean is an animal that had no noticable limp, until I went to drag them back. Then I have noticed a few animals with either deformed leg or missing a paw, front or back. In some cases, it looked like a birth defect, and in others, seemed like the foot was left in a trap? But, none of them could be identified as a "cripple" as they ran; no limp. Guess I just haven't seen that? Of course, several of mine were taken at night, when you really don't see much of the legs; just the eyes, and body, if you're lucky. It would be very hard to pick up on a limp, at night.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32365 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 20, 2003 07:08 AM
AT risk of being anthropomorphic, couldn't one ask if the pack is able to differentiate between a member that is able to pull its own weight around the house as far as being able to contribute to the hunting effort, territorial defense, and the like? Even a gimp that can't hunt but can tend the pups in the absence of the parents is only good for a few weeks out of the year. A couple coyotes with three legs and the like have been cited here, but in most cases, they've not presented with a severe impediment. Maybe coyote culture also believes in the statement, "Ass, gas or grass - nobody rides for free."
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted April 20, 2003 10:33 AM
All criples I have found were alone.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted April 20, 2003 02:19 PM
Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever taken a cripple that wasn't alone. At least as far as I knew.
This video clip is a 3 legged coyote. One of her back legs is gone well above the knee. The "stump" was completely furred over, looked like an old injury - and she was an older coyote. Kind of hard to tell from the low-*** clip I made for posting, but when she took off after the first shot, I actually thought she must have been hit because of the odd gate and the relative lack of speed (I was running the camera). Turns out that first shot was a clean miss (which you can see plainly in the video clip), Tim made a nice recovery and dumped her at about 180 yds with his second shot. The clip is about 1.4MB, so be prepared to wait a few minutes if you're on a slow connection.
3 legged coyote
Definitely, she wasn't quite as fast as a 4 legged coyote, but she wasn't exactly slow, either. And, like I said, she was a mature female (I'd guess 4 or 5 years, by the teeth) in excellent condition, and the injury looked to have happened much earlier in her life.
Edit: Now that's odd. The word that got "asterisked" is r-e-s. Considered offensive when used as slang for reservation, perhaps?
- DAA
[ April 20, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: DAA ]
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6
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posted April 20, 2003 03:23 PM
What impresses me most is the shooting. There's few things in this life that'll get my respect faster than the kind of shooting I see in that clip! Good going DAA!
Do you think it was the first or second shot that got it?
PS... Somehow we got to direct that kind of shooting at terrorists (muslims)
[ April 20, 2003, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".
Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted April 20, 2003 07:10 PM
It was definitely the second shot. Took the front corner of her skull off. Strange deal too. It didn't kill her. Not nearly. Just put her in some sort of coma or something. When Tim set her down at the end of that clip, she was still alive as could be. Just asleep. And snoring, loudly.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted April 20, 2003 08:13 PM
A little insight here. I am crippled, And you will usually find me alone.
I can keep up with the pack thanks to a 14 mph , Bullet proof tired. Four speed electric custom built off road wheel chair. Also a 650 Honda.
I can protect the pack. Thanks to a Colt Commander, In a bag on the side off the wheel chair.
Can't speak for the Coyote. The main reason you will find me alone. Is I am a mean, Stubborn, Belligerent, Evil tempered. Down right honery old S O B." At least 99% of the time".
I seem to get along great with other of my species who hunt coyotes. ( Uhmm, Wonder what that means).
DAA
I think the way you and Tim shoot. Should be reason to rewrite the current data on Coyotes. You two should be on the list of there natural enemies. Great clip.
Now before any one gets upset here. I AM CRIPPLED. Get use to it. I did, And met a lot of wonderful folks since I wound up this way. A lot of them right here. Hope all of you had a great Easter. Varmit
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted April 20, 2003 08:52 PM
I have killed cripples that were alone and others that were paired up with a healthy partner. By crippled I'm talking about coyotes with leg problems. Such as missing part of a leg, or a deformed leg due to injury or possibly a birth defect. I'd think in my part of the country that a coyote pup born with a major defect would have a tough time surviving any length of time or making it to adulthood. I could see how a coyote with a severe injury couldn't keep up with others and would be a complete loner.
Of the coyotes that I have killed the ones with rear leg injuries seemed to move much better than ones with front leg injuries. I guess that only makes more sense anyway.
I had a lone female come into a howl only one time that had a screwed up hind leg. She came in at a slow walk and acted very nervous but in a almost submissive sort of way. She finally stopped about 60 yards out and laid down with her ears down and a look on her face like your pet dog has after being scolded. After inspecting her I could see the problem with her hind leg. I have never had another coyote act this way when coming to a howl. I don't know if her injury made her act in such a manner.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 21, 2003 03:40 PM
I can agree with Lonny about the back leg, based on one event I remember clearly.
The coyote had seen our vehicle as we were negotiating a high pass, and took off, flat out. Fortunately, he was lining straight out, and ran into a bullet about two hundred yards away. As these situations go, it wasn't a very difficult shot, in this particular case.
I was very surprised to see the rear leg was sort of stunted, and shrunk up. I don't think he could move the joint, at all?
But, he was running at coyote top speed, no question. I can't remember any other time that a cripple was departing; they were all approaching the call, and usually stopping, at some point. But I have seen a few, missing a front foot, that were running in to the call at an easy lope. A three legged coyote can run, no doubt about it.
Good hunting. LB
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32365 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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BARRY
Knows what it's all about
Member # 86
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posted April 22, 2003 05:17 AM
Really interesting topic,too bad Major Boddicker or Verne Howey doesn't join in on this one.
Posts: 10 | From: IOWA | Registered: Feb 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted April 22, 2003 01:31 PM
I know who Major Boddicker is, but who is Verne Howey?
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted April 22, 2003 04:05 PM
Interesting topic.
Most of the crippled coyotes that I've run into have all been in sheep country where they've lost limbs due to rifles.
Thinking back over the cripples that I've called in and shot, there doesn't seem to be much of a distinction between crippled coyotes being loners, or hunting with 'packs'. I've seen both.
I called in a pair in January and the female was missing half of her back left leg. She was paired with a (seemingly) completely physically capable coyote. I would assume had she have lived and raised pups that this fall she would be hunting with the whole family group and she would fall into the category of 'cripple.'
The worst injured coyote I have ever killed I called in and shot. He had a grazing bullet wound over the top of his shoulders that looked to be quite old (several months). The bullet had grazed the top of the shoulder blades and taken out some bone and the wound hadn't healed over completely. You could look into the wound and see the shoulder blades after I shot him. He walked with a slight hobble in his gait and had a stomach full of sheep. He coyote responded alone and I didn't see another coyote on that stand.
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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BARRY
Knows what it's all about
Member # 86
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posted April 26, 2003 06:26 AM
onecoyte: Verne Howey is a full time coyote hunter in Wyoming. He's been doing it for something like 20 years and he gives seminars at times. He has a video "Calling the Elusive Coyote". He is a very down to earth guy who has killed about 4,000 coyotes, so
he is doing it right. He's the first to admit he doesn't know everything about coyotes and never will, still learning. He is willing to help anyone who wants to learn more and do a better job at calling coyotes.
Posts: 10 | From: IOWA | Registered: Feb 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted April 26, 2003 06:13 PM
BARRY, thank you, now I know. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 26, 2003 07:21 PM
....wonder if ol' Verne knows (of) Danny?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32365 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted April 27, 2003 02:05 PM
Leonard, I ain't killed 4000 coyotes, ![[Frown]](frown.gif) but I can double his years of doing it and so can you. "Hey" I got an idea!! Why don't we rent a plane, bet our numbers go up then. I even got a better idea, Frank has a plane, we buy the gas and shoot, he flys LOL, Good Hunting.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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