This is topic Howling, What do you call? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by albert (Member # 98) on April 03, 2003, 06:39 PM:
When you howl what do you expect to call? Old Dog? Old female? Young dogs? middle dog ? I am wondering because I hear some talk of people useing howling to get "trophy" animals. So what do you think?
[ April 03, 2003, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: albert ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2003, 07:03 PM:
Albert, I'm so happy that you found the time to join us here at the New Huntmasters! How is the wife and your boys? Still knocking them dead? I hear that your numbers are up, at your new digs? Any wolf, this year?
Okay, the question.
I expect just about any level of response, young, old and in between. Mostly silent, and very alert; but in no hurry. Actually, the youngsters usually hang back and peek over a bush. Easily missed, like a cat.
Good hunting. LB
edit: to clarify: the question about "knocking them dead" refers to coyotes, not family!
[ April 03, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by 20t-n-t (Member # 46) on April 03, 2003, 08:24 PM:
Albert,
I always make my first howl high pitched like a youngster or a female, so it don't intimadate. It seems that the older yotes will come right in, I think they hear a younger yote and feel safe thinking they are the better dog. The only time that I don't start my stands that way is durring the denning season. Then I want to sound older and more threatening to provoke a responce.
By the way, to me they are all trophys. I have never killed a coyote that was flat out easy. I have had to work for all of them.
I howled three yotes in this afternoon. 1st stand, 2nd set of howls, was fixin to start with the distress when I looked up and there he was 30 yards out and fixed on my decoy. As I got the gun up he started to move off when I barked, he stoped and I had him in the scope. At the report he folded and I spotted 2 more heading out behind the 1st, I swung to the 2nd and started the distressed pup call to stop him. It worked and so did my 20 but the 3rd was not in the cards I missed her 2 times. Bet she will be hard to fool next time. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Sorry I changed the subject ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Smote the Yote
Slydog
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 04, 2003, 07:11 AM:
Albert,
I believe that howling will call more of the older, more agressive coyotes. This includes both the male and female animals.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 04, 2003, 08:15 AM:
All of the above.I've called alot of young ones,old ones, male and female they all come to a howler,especially when used with distress sounds.GOOD HUNTING CO
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 04, 2003, 08:53 AM:
When using one of my howlers I pretty much expect the same results as Leaonard and Utcaller. When using an open reed howler I pretty much expect a flock of ducks.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 04, 2003, 09:08 AM:
For those howlers that Rich Higgins mentions, you can see em at www.duckhowlers.com The most deadly on coyotes is the ruptured duck howler. Now if you want to call owls like bee's to honey, just try one of those Higgins howlers. Best dang loud owl hoot sound available. Serious business, this howling stuff.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 04, 2003, 09:27 AM:
Rich & Rich, You both have me howling.LOL.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 04, 2003, 12:25 PM:
I know that some of Rich Cronk's friends and supporters were offended some time back when I said that his howler's barks sounded like quacks and the howls sounded lke sirens. Rich and I have become friends since then and I must now give credit where credit is due. One of the most effective coyote calling tools I have is a Cronk Bison Horn Howler. Visit Rich's website and look it over. His howlers are reasonably priced and attractive. This technque is absoutely killer for the days you are too lazy to hike back in away from the truck. Set up close to the street, blow a large number of loud barks followed by several howls that recede in volume and fade away. Then sit silently and watch the street. Every coyote within hearing will think a duck just got run over by a firetruck and come in lookn for roadkill.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on April 04, 2003, 12:50 PM:
Rich H, If you hit the road with a wet burlap sack. It will sound just like a duck it by a truck. I do this just before my first howel. Makes a big difference.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 04, 2003, 01:39 PM:
Ok here is the real scoop if I remember correctly.
I picked up a used Higgins Howler at local Goodwill store for I think about a buck fifty. Here is what I called on first night out with it.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on April 04, 2003, 02:21 PM:
Albert: "When you howl what do you expect to call? Old Dog? Old female? Young dogs? middle dog?"
Howling alone or in combination with distress calls?
Also, I am curious as to the relevance of the question since no two howls FROM A CALLER sound the same?
~SH~
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on April 04, 2003, 03:55 PM:
My expiernce pretty well mirrors Leonard and others you just never know what will come in. I have been told the the least "dominant" coyote of a pair will most likley be the first show and i was wonderong if any one had noticed this?
Hi Leonard, I have been away from home most of the winter so I haven't been able to spend much time on the net. Yes, I have had a good winter, have this week off plan to do a little coyote hunting maybe with a little luck might get into triple digits this year. No wolf, this year but I did get a couple of cats.
[ April 04, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: albert ]
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on April 05, 2003, 08:14 AM:
Albert: "I have been told the the least "dominant" coyote of a pair will most likley be the first show....."
I have seen that it's usually the most aggressive that appears first not the least aggressive.
Are you talking about howling by itself or in combination with distress calls?
Each can give you a different reaction.
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 05, 2003, 09:13 AM:
quote:
"I have seen that it's usually the most aggressive that appears first not the least aggressive."
Yeah, I'd think so, myself; all things being equal? However, I think there are extenuating circumstances, depending on the cover and the population density.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 05, 2003, 10:35 AM:
Leonard's correct again regarding their response here in the southwest. Because of my style of howling I expect the closest animal to come in first regardless whether it is a puppy, mature, male, or female.Those of you that have our last video see puppies come in by themselves or ahead of mature coyotes. One clip shows an alpha female arriving by herself and then displaying for 18 minutes in the wash below us while the male stood on top of the ridge across from us and watched. I never know what will show first.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 05, 2003, 01:27 PM:
Rich Higgins went a howlin' and he did go hoot-hoot-who? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 05, 2003, 01:49 PM:
I still say it is most agressive yote that usually comes in first, unless a LESS agressive member of the family is only one who hears it.
[ April 05, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 05, 2003, 05:57 PM:
Hi Rich, loved your little ditty. I'm aware of the time and effort you must have spent composing that clever little gem and I appreciate it. As to your other post, since at least a dozen members have seen video of young coyotes coming to the howls ahead of other group members, and all remaining in front of the camera for extended periods, 5 in one scene and 7 in another, how do you reconcile your last post with that film?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 05, 2003, 06:31 PM:
Maybe it's a regional thing, Dances With Wolves?
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 05, 2003, 07:20 PM:
Master Po, you are right as usual. The regional coyotes in Ia. are pussies and only the alphas are up to tackling a duck.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 06, 2003, 06:32 AM:
Rich Higgins,
Well yes, I did make up the words for the above tune but the gif. is real time video of Jay Nistetter on his banjo. As for the reason that coyote youngsters in AZ sometimes come to your howling efforts, shucks I don't know. Who will ever know?
Posted by Maineiac (Member # 21) on April 06, 2003, 06:54 AM:
I know why. With frog leggs like that wouldn't you come in too?
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on April 06, 2003, 08:42 AM:
I wonder what the facial expression would be on one of those huge 15lb AZ alpha males when a pussy, 40lb,IA alpha came charging to his hoot owl howl? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Dennis
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on April 06, 2003, 09:17 AM:
I would suspect the differences in pup response from one area to another would also depend quite a bit on habitat. From what I have seen, I don't think anyone could argue that pups will feel more comfortable in approaching a call when cover is close at hand! Also depends on the age of the pup.
Along the lines of "most agressive" vs. "least aggressive", the male is not always the aggressor in a pair of territorial adult coyotes.
I have seen the female be the aggressor on numerous occasions. Keeps the game interesting.
~SH~
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on April 06, 2003, 09:28 AM:
I've had pups come into howls with no adults. I suspected that the adults were out making their rounds and the pups responded to my howls on the assumption that i was one of the adults?
Dennis
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 06, 2003, 09:31 AM:
Rich, the color threw me off at first, but after close scrutiny, sure nuff, that's Uncle Jay.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 06, 2003, 09:44 AM:
quote:
I wonder what the facial expression would be on one of those huge 15lb AZ alpha males when a pussy, 40lb,IA alpha came charging to his hoot owl howl?
Dennis, I've told you a MILLION times; "quit exaggerating"!
Good hunting. LB (just kidding)
PS besides; we usually get three or four fifteen pounders at a time, doesn't that count for anything?
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 06, 2003, 12:07 PM:
Yup, it counts for a litter of puppies.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 06, 2003, 12:27 PM:
Wiley E. said: "I have seen the female be the aggressor on numerous occasions. Keeps the game interesting."
Wiley,
YOU have met my wife sometime or another.
Albert,
I apologize for making light of your original question. If a feller is using pup howls, it wouldn't be unusual at all to call the youngsters once in awhile. Same may well be true when using non aggressive "lonesome" sounding howls. I almost always use a certain "prey distress" sound mixed in with the howling too.
Guys,
Back in the 1980's, I noticed that most of my late winter coyotes were old males. My fur buyer noticed the same thing. In those days I was using mostly rabbit distress screams too. In summer it was not at all unusual to call in those big eared pups, but then I was using mostly rabbit calls.
Posted by Terry Hunter (Member # 58) on April 06, 2003, 03:07 PM:
When howling any age animal or sex of the coyote will respond.The pups in the fall do not seem to be as aggressive as older animals.
I have taken several bobcats after howling.
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