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Author
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Topic: AZ Aerial Hunt-FYI
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Bob in TX
Knows what it's all about
Member # 66
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posted March 22, 2003 06:04 AM
Aerial coyote hunt planned north of Seligman
03/20/2003
SELIGMAN (AP) -- The Arizona Game and Fish Department is planning a coyote hunt in northern Arizona.
The hunt will be done from the air and will be conducted north of Seligman, either later this month or early April, Game specialist Johnny Mills said.
It will coincide with the time antelope are giving birth.
The hope is that by eliminating some of the predators, the fawns will be given a chance to grow up and join their dwindling herds, Mills said.
With continued growth, the drought and the lack of vegetation, the hunt is necessary to ensure the herds continue, he said.
Posts: 51 | From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 22, 2003 07:10 AM
It's unfortunate that the state of AZ will use1 tax dollars to perform a service that can be offered by private sector hunters. Kansas is having real trouble with antelope recruitment due in large part to coyote depredation as well. Now, if I may play the devil's advocate for a moment because I'm not personally experienced in your situation down in AZ, but what may be the reasons for not allowing all the many hunting clubs down there to take their shot at reducing coyote numbers? Is it a safety issue of having that many rifles concentrated in one area? Is it the past history of AR groups coming down on organized competition hunts? Is it a liability issue which prompts the state to tackle their own problem versus relying upon individuals and outsiders to do them job for them? I've read all the previous posts on aerial gunning on this and other UBB's, and am in support of allowing sportsmen to do a public service, but am still wanting more information about potential problems and pitfalls. Why do these states continue to go this route?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 22, 2003 07:21 AM
This is a surprise to me because previously, they have counted on the assistance of clubs and individuals. You may recall the working title of the hunt was "antelope eaters"? Maybe this is in addition, or the organizers have dropped out?
I used to hunt around Seligman, very good for coyotes but it helps to know the area. There is definitely not a problem with crowding!
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling
[ March 22, 2003, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 22, 2003 07:33 AM
They still conduct the antelope eaters hunt each year as far as I know. The hunt takes place prior to the start of aerial targeting. Anyone who wants can go hunt coyotes in the Seligman/Williams area any time the want. A great area for p-dogs too, I used to get up there a couple times each year for a dog shoot.Great area, big country, lots of game, some of the biggest elk in the state up in unit 10.
~AzHunter~
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"Shoulda,woulda and coulda never did squat....it's what you've done that matters"
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted March 22, 2003 08:24 AM
I believe the hunt was last weekend, some people from PM went.The results should be on the March or April Arizona Predator Callers website newsletter.Nice site they have.
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 22, 2003 11:20 AM
Wait a minute, there! The biggest Imperial elk I ever saw was between Happy Jack and Winslow. As far as big elk, it looks hard to beat Mormon Lake. Come to think of it, the biggest javalina I ever saw was a road kill between Lake Mary and Mormon Lake. The coyotes in the same area are a lot bigger than elsewhere. I don't go there much these days, because my cousin sold the property; but when they used to have team roping and a pow-wow on the fourth of July, the area was full of all imaginable types of wildlife, including turkey.
Good hunting. LB
PS, actually, we used to have pretty good luck on coyotes a little further south of Seligman, around that herd of Charolais.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted March 22, 2003 03:17 PM
I went on the antelope eaters hunt a few years ago. Close to a hundred callers went out that day and only 8 coyotes were checked in, it was the same the next day. That tells me if I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the coyotes. I have been around Seligman many times and I never seen that many coyotes. So why are they bringing in the Air Force? Do coyotes eat Black Footed Ferrets? I know they have some in the area. For years they have said the coyotes are killing baby antelope as they are being born, I'm sure it happens but to what extent, Enough to call in planes? I think they need to put a stop to that kind of predator control, Good Hunting.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted March 22, 2003 04:43 PM
I don't know anything about the antelope/coyote problem in AZ. I do know on the Hart Mountain Antelope Refuge in Oregon that coyotes are having a dramatic effect on antelope fawn survival. To the tune of .08 fawns survival per 100 does in 1995. They did a study on the northern half of the refuge and killed about half of the coyotes prior to fawns being born. The average survival rates jumped from 14 per 100 to 80 per 100. The coyotes numbers are thought to be 1 per square mile on the refuge.
I have been trying to draw an antelope tag for this area for several years and the numbers of tags have been reduced greatly because the low fawn survival is really reducing the overall population. The ARF's and enviromentalists have pretty much stopped any further coyote control on the refuge.
I know that game numbers are always going to be rising and falling due to habitat, weather, boom and bust cycles, etc. When it comes to something like coyotes, which we can control and the recreational hunters aren't getting the job done. To help keep game numbers at huntable levels during tough times I say let the planes fly.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bob in TX
Knows what it's all about
Member # 66
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posted March 22, 2003 04:57 PM
The ADC folks, now Wildlife Services, are very much needed. There is a big difference between predator hunting and predator control. Where there are heavy stock/game losses they provide a much needed service. In order to affect the population of coyotes in a given area you have to eliminate 75% of the population. Calling won't do that. These guys are not our enemies. Yes, we do compete in some areas for the same coyotes, but I have still been able to call in areas that have been worked by ADC aerial gunners.
Good Hunting,
Bob
Posts: 51 | From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 22, 2003 05:38 PM
I wonder what's special about the Seligman area? What's happening on the eastern side by St. John/Painted Desert?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6
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posted March 23, 2003 06:08 PM
Just as food for though........ fish and game are obviously trying to protect antelope numbers.
Why try to protect their numbers?
Are they endangered?
Does the state bring in more revenue by catering to antelope hunters than predator hunters?
Could it be that predators hunters bring in more money than antelope hunters?
Is it legal to hunt antelope in Arizon?
To my way of thinking, predator hunters are more valuable/important than antelope hunters. So then why should we suffer the affects of ariel gunning of coyotes at the expense of our form hunting? I value predator hunting above antelope hunting.
To hell with antelope......they should be a food source so as to increase the predator numbers so I have better hunting.
What do you think about that?
Frank
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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".
Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 23, 2003 06:22 PM
Seligman and Anderson Mesa area antelope fawns are hammered pretty hard by coyotes. Az.F&G claim a 69% mortality due to predation. F&G officer told me collared coyotes have traveled as far as 75 miles for the festivities. San Carlos Game Dept. invited the 3 big calling clubs to hunt the reservation this weekend because they are going to aerial gun the coyotes next weekend. They still charge the normal fee for tags and license and did not open the restricted areas. Made me kinda wonder about their motives.
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 25, 2003 06:51 AM
Interesting thread!
Why not let the sportsman shoot the coyotes rather than aerial hunting?
Sounds good in theory but lets consider the facts:
1. These "supposed" territorial coyotes move into these areas during fawning. That includes multiple territorial adults that share the same food source. That is the time and place to attack the problem, not a shotgun approach during the fur season when these same coyotes could be scattered anywhere.
2. Coyote populations are dying of mange due to overpopulation and some of you are concerned about what is taken by aerial hunting during fawning? Maybe they should be killing more so the population would stay healthier for better recreational hunting opportunity. It's obvious the sportsman are not killing enough during the fur season or coyotes wouldn't be dying of mange due to overpopulation would they?
3. If the posts on this and other calling forums are any indication, it sounds like a pretty high percentage of coyotes are called in but not shot BY "MOST" CALLERS.
That's seldom the case with targeted aerial hunting.
Frank,
You may find this as newsbreaking but there is more hunters out there than just coyote hunters.
If it's any consulation, I would bet by next fall, you would not recognize that a plane had ever been in the area.
Want to take my bet?
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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