This is topic Question for Rich Higgins in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 13, 2003, 07:45 PM:
Hey Rich,
Was over in my storage shed the other day and took the time to thumb through a box of coyote research papers.
I brought home a short stack of research papers on coyote vocalizations and was reading through them and I finally found what I was looking for.
CHARACTERIZING THE FUNCTIONS OF COYOTE VOCALIZATIONS THROUGH THE USE OF PLAYBACK.
A Thesis
Presented in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree of Master of Science with a Major in Wildlife Resources in the College of Graduate Studies University of Idaho.
By Kathleen F. Fulmer
Feb. 28, 1990
They examined the following: the seasonality of response, coyote resonse to vocalization type, the effect of environmental factors on resonse, and the role of vocalizations in territorial maintenance.
Response examinations included both vocal and approach.
Lehner (1982) broadcast Group Howls and Group Yip Howl playbacks to a population of non-radio-collared coytoes where social status and territorial boundaries were unknown; although several other studies examined vocalizations of radio-collared coyotes (e.g., Wenger adn Cringan 1978; Laundre 1981), none monitored movement nor addressed territory locations.
The use of radio-collared animals was important for several reasons: 1) Collared coyotes' movements had been monitored for several years, therefore we had knowledge of their territorial boundaries and social status (i.e. alpha female, associate male); 2) choice of playback sites were based on where radio-collared coyotes were located each night; and 3) we were able to monitor movement of all collared coyotes in the area before, during, and after each playback.
The study was not without it's biases but it certainly has more useful information than I have seen in any other vocalization study and a lot of it is applicable to calling coyotes.
Some of the biases I picked up on were:
1. How coyote territorial core areas change seasonally based on seasonal changes in coyote behavior and seasonal food availability changes.
2. Some coyotes could have seen or heard them approach the area which would bias their response although they did acknowledge that possibility later in the study.
3. This population was unexploited which will absolutely affect their level of response when compared to exploited populations.
4. This followed Crabtree's Research which I know was biased towards unexploited populations based on his conclusions.
An interesting observation was, "Coyotes did not appear to distinguish between Lone Howl recordings of pack members (including themselves), neighbours, or non-neighbours. For example, resident animals vocally responded to neighbour and non-neighbour Lone Howls as often as they vocalized to their own Lone Howls."
In other words, they took actual recordings of the coyotes in these areas and either played back their neighbour's howls or their own howls to them and it never made a difference in vocal or approach responses.
The best part of this thesis is that it confirms a lot of what some of us have been talking about here including Ed Sceery and Bill Martz's research.
Question: Want to trade research papers? LOL!
~SH~
[ March 13, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 13, 2003, 08:02 PM:
Oh Pi Collie, ears anutter won.
SPECTROGRAPHIC COMPARISON OF ACTUAL AND SIMULATED COYOTE VOCALIZATIONS
Gary M. Reid, Department of Fishery and Wildlife Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO.
A total of 27 howls were analyzed using spectrographic techniques.
They compared actual coyote howls, voice howls, and open reed howlers with and without cow horns and car horns for frequency range, frequency modulation, harmonics, and duration.
This was done in a sound room with such greats as Herb Brusman (Herb's Howlers), Dave Nelson (my former supervisor), and Mike Worthen from Idaho. All highly respected callers and all ADC men.
VEDY INTEARESTEEEN!
Want to trade research papers? LOL!
~SH~
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 14, 2003, 05:32 AM:
Wiley, for such a fine thesis as this, I would trade to you my second wife. ( paraphrasing Warren Page's Afghan guide). Actually I like you way too much to afflict my second wife upon you. You've expressed interest in Franz Camanzind's doctoral thesis and I would gladly trade his for Ms. Fulmer's. I'm tracking down P.N. Lehner's collective works on coyote communication and D.A.Danner's research on heavily exploited populations in Az. Both should have some relevance to calling and be of value to you.
Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on March 14, 2003, 07:29 AM:
Shucks,
I want to know all about Bill Martz's research!LOL
I've been told ,and read on the boards,by alot callers (that dont know him) that he doesn't hunt! LOL 'Course, I already know about it, but just thought it interesting that Scott would bring it up.LOL(Bills research that is).
And to clear the record, I know for a fact that he DOES hunt! I saw a picture of 4 Bull Moose(all trophy's) in one frame on the same stand. All called with the WT. He also has, on film, 38 coyotes called in one night,IN THE EAST! It took me 2 weeks to kill that many last Nov., in Indiana. How in the wide,wide,world of sports could someone call these critters in if they didnt hunt?!!! Now Bill is a little like Rich Higgins in that he CHOOSE'S to photograph and film what he calls rather than use a gun. But it is still hunting. Also, how does one record all those animal sounds without hunting for them first. He does know his stuff. I learned more in a 4 hour conversation with Bill about coyote vocalizations and animal reactions to certain sounds and stimuli, than I did in 3 or 4 days with Bill Austin back in the 70's. My personal research has bore this out. His knowledge about Mt. Lion reactions alone is worth a fortune to the man that wants to ask. If I had not gotten sick and had emergency surgery this winter, I would have shattered my old record of 25 lions called in one year. But 17 called aint bad for a sick (as Jay would call me) "old Fart" like me. And I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and it goes to Bill for every lion I call. After my Lion calling book is finished, we will talk about them at length in the Cat Forum. Just wanted to clear the air about the "Bill doesnt hunt crowd".
FWIW
Steve
[ March 14, 2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Steve Craig ]
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 14, 2003, 08:12 AM:
It's a deal Rich!
Steve,
Dittos on Bill Martz!
I found him very abrassive on the forums at first but extremely knowledgeable in person and funny too. I like the guy because he is very knowledgeable!
He likes sarcasm in his humor much like I do. I died when he told me about someone who wanted a recording of a person locked in the trunk of a car to pull a practical prank on a friend. LOL!
Kinda like the story I heard of the hunting partner who bought a gorilla suit and ran past his buddies hunting cam. LOL!
He can back up most of his statements and never gave me a chance to hammer him on the statements that I figured he couldn't back. Hahaha!
I got a heck of a kick out of visiting with him and I will enjoy meeting and visiting more with him. He knows his stuff!
He may come across as a "know it all" to some folks simply because he knows a heck of a lot!
What's really amazing Steve is how closely his philosophies are tied to the research mentioned above. I think he used this or similar research such as this for the basis of many of his theories and simply expounded on them.
Either way, this is progress unlike the false conclusions drawn from so many previous studies.
My WT is on the way!
~SH~
[ March 14, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on March 14, 2003, 09:02 AM:
Scott
Any chance on posting journel names and dates on those studies?
Were the sound choices yours or was it determined by your supervisor?
Dennis
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 14, 2003, 05:13 PM:
Well, I have heard all those things about Bill Martz. I don't know if he hunts, but I have heard the claims that he doesn't. He probably knows a hell of a lot about audio and electronics and for sure, has a great sound library. He probably builds the best system on the market, and without justification; the most expensive, fully equipped.
All this has nothing to do with the abrasive nature he projects on message boards, and the fact that he has been thrown off virtually every one of them. I've been real light on him, in the past, and he STILL called me a knucklehead, once!
I don't care how much he knows, or how charming he may be in person, but he don't know dick about Internet courtesy. I don't believe that I ever read a post of his where he didn't insult at least one person. You don't need to do that to sell what is reputed to be the best machine on the market.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 14, 2003, 07:44 PM:
L: "I don't believe that I ever read a post of his where he didn't insult at least one person. You don't need to do that to sell what is reputed to be the best machine on the market."
You're right, I won't argue that!
Greenside: "Any chance on posting journel names and dates on those studies?"
Those are the titles!
The date of the second study was Dec. 81 to May 82.
Greenside: "Were the sound choices yours or was it determined by your supervisor?"
I had nothing to do with either study and the two studies are not related in any way that I know of.
Here's something I had never heard before:
"during the denning season, resident coyotes may cross boundaries and destroy resident neighbours' litters (Camenzind 1978)."
I think he's confused with bobcats.
I have never heard this or seen it or heard of anyone else hearing of it or seeing it.
I seriously question this.
I'm just throwing this out there. I don't think these studies or any others will lead to any silver bullets or revolutionary findings. What's interesting about this study is that it worked with radio collared coyotes where behavior could be monitored on TERRITORIAL ADULT coyotes in a natural environment. That's what makes this study have more merit than many of them.
This study still doesn't represent a typical coyote population where 60% of the population is young and/or yearlings that do not elicit territorial behavior during the fur season. That in itself is a huge bias.
Another bias is how territories change for the adults due to hunting pressure, weather, and food availability. That is another huge bias.
Take any of these studies with a handfull of salt.
My favorite quote in this study was that the study lead to more questions than answers, just as it should.
~SH~
[ March 14, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 14, 2003, 07:50 PM:
Hey Scott, it's a done deal then. I'll call my second wife and tell her to pack.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on March 14, 2003, 08:35 PM:
RH: "Hey Scott, it's a done deal then. I'll call my second wife and tell her to pack."
Uuuuuuum, was that the deal? LOL!
second wife?
I have a better idea, how about when you get all your studies gathered, we trade information and then critique the best studies as to their application to calling coyotes during the fur season on this forum?
This way we can critique the studies RATHER THAN EACHOTHER! How's that sound? Deal?
That way everyone can put their thinking caps on, take in all the opinions, and reach their own conclusions based on their own experiences and unique situations.
I think this vocalization study I found does have some application and there is a lot of good information in it but I think there is other parts that may directly contradict some of our theories BASED ON FACTUAL OBSERVATION.
Can we handle the truth?
On the other hand, we may find bias in the parts that may contradict our theories.
Now that would be awesome because that's how we learn and still remain objective. LOL!
A study is only as good as it's critique and I love critiquing studies. Hopefully you will too.
I was at a meeting the other day and a fella from a National Park stated that based on fecal sample transects, he estimated a coyote population of 11 coyotes per square mile. I about fell out of my chair. I asked him if he had any plans to release this information to the public as this could raise the area to a "red alert". LOL!
I told him I could assure him that he was about 10.5 coyotes per square mile too high for a spring population and 10 coyotes per square mile too high for a maximum fall population. His estimate was way too high because we have sampled many areas on full snow cover in the spring surrounding this area to arrive at close to .5 coyotes per square mile.
Exploited or not, this area is not that wide. A pair to 4 square miles is about average.
I probably wasn't too popular with him either.
~SH~
[ March 14, 2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2003, 07:57 AM:
....½ a coyote per square mile? No wonder you locate first!
I wonder how that researcher aged his scat; so as to determine if he was cleaning up behind the same pair, every day?
But, you have a great idea, Scott. All dolled up with official letterheads and such, they can still jump to unsupported (and flawed) conclusions. I deplore that in a taxpayer supported study. You need to call them on your example, that is completely contrary to my experience. Consider the response we all get, to a hurt pup sound. I guess they want to kill strange pups, eh? Not where I hunt.
Good hunting. LB
Good hunting. LB
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 15, 2003, 08:09 AM:
I talked to BM on the phone five or six times, over a period of about six months, several years ago. He seemed like a good enough guy, not rude or condescending, EXCEPT, he consistantly LIED TO ME. I ordered one of his callers, and despite his repeated and specific promises to the contrary, he never shipped it. I've since heard that he'll do that to someone he "doesn't like". If he didn't like me, it sure would have been a lot simpler for both of us, for him to simply tell me so, rather than going on and on about the deal and spewing bullshit at me.
I've no idea whether he hunts or not, and don't care. The way he conducted himself in my attemtped dealings with him left me with a less than favorable opinion.
I've got a buddy who is a state wildlife biologist in Maine, that has had personal dealings with BM, in regards to getting proximity to animals for the purpose of recording sounds. My friend REALLY doesn't like the guy.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2003, 08:32 AM:
Hey Rich. What yardstick do you use for dispatching ex-wives? Friends get #2,while enemies have to deal with #1? What about #3? Danny, you could shed some light on the subject! I'm completely in the dark. LB
DAA, your experience closely resembles Moon Dog, of the Huntseeks and CG forums; a while ago. As I recall, Bill just canceled his order, for some arbitrary reason? What a way to run a business. Don't count your chickens, yet; Scott.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on March 15, 2003, 09:24 AM:
Wiley E
Oops, I meant the sounds on the WT. I'm sure some day you will let slip what sounds you have coming? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Dennis
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 25, 2003, 02:02 PM:
Just to add a postscript here, regarding my earlier post.
I got a call today, from of all people, Bill Martz. Seems one of the particicpants here told him of my post in this thread, so he called.
Awkward conversation, on both ends I believe. Bill did relate that there was a legitimate reason why he could not ship my caller during the time frame we were talking, in the fall of '00. And that he didn't feel like being forthright about it at the time. We didn't talk about disclosing those details here, so I won't.
So, anyway, I appreciated the phone call today, and now knowing the reason I never got a WT caller (and it wasn't because he "didn't like me" or anything like that). But I really would have preferred to have been using the caller for the last 3 seasons. If he'd simply told me what was really going on at the time, I'd have waited patiently, rather than giving up on it all together with a nasty taste in my mouth.
Just thought some might be interested.
- DAA
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on March 25, 2003, 05:33 PM:
The count now stands at four wives.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on March 25, 2003, 05:40 PM:
WAY COOL!! I had the end of March. How much was in the pool?
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