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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 07, 2018, 08:05 PM:
Jeep has had an intermittent misfire at idle for quite awhile. Only at idle. Not bad, but enough to throw a code. Then it would go away and the code would clear itself.
Recently got a lot worse. Constant. Occurring well above idle.
Rats... Huh?
Leak down test showed exhaust valve #6 to be leaking. So...
This is the suspect. The small valve, far right.
Doesn't look all that bad? Sure hope this isn't a wild goose chase. So, filled the combustion chambers with water and sat back and puffed on a cigar and watched.
Didn't see anything happening. Starting to wonder if I was sniffing glue pulling the head off. Then, this appeared in exhaust port #6.
Not on glue after all ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
.
So, head goes to machine shop in the morning. Maybe done by next weekend, maybe not.
Don't have the suspect lifters out yet. Used a magnet, only got about half of them out but not for #6. Going to have to go get a tool or something tomorrow after dropping off the head.
Rockers and push rods all looked great. So I'm optimistic I'm not going to be needing a new cam. Hope not. Pulling the cam will be a bitch, an expensive bitch.
Should know how my cam looks tomorrow. With any luck, I'll just drop all new lifters in and bolt it all back together when the head gets finished.
Next though, think I got an input shaft bearing on the six speed manual transmission going out. Doesn't sound like any throw out bearing I ever heard. But I got all my fingers and toes crossed that it IS a TO bearing!
Beat the shit out of a rig constantly for nearly thirteen years and this stuff will happen. I plan to beat the shit out of it for another thirteen years though .
- DAA
[ September 07, 2018, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: DAA ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on September 08, 2018, 04:00 AM:
Reminds me of me years ago I would come home on a Friday night pull the heads run them to machine shop
Cam if necessary !
Come back and take out the pistons clean and re- ring them install new bearings and pick up the heads the following morning doing all this while standing in the engine bay try that today! Now I can barely get a plug wire off !
Ready for work on Monday morning !
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 08, 2018, 04:09 AM:
Paul, I had to climb in and out of that bay a bunch of times yesterday. Not a lot of room for me in there, but it was the only way to get at a lot of the bolts.
Climbed full in there to get the head off. It weighs 85 pounds and my Jeep sits kind of tall. So I had to climb all the way in and straddle it to lift it off by myself .
- DAA
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 08, 2018, 04:21 AM:
A few of my buddies are kind of surprised I didn't take this as an excuse to swap in an LS too. But, I don't have the money for one thing. And it would take me too long, would end up spending my coyote season working on my Jeep instead of driving it.
So, no LS for now.
Someday though!
- DAA
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on September 08, 2018, 06:58 AM:
What, you couldn't drive a stock LS for one season? Hell you know a lift and new LCA's, wheels and tires can be done in a weekend? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on September 08, 2018, 07:07 AM:
I had fun with mine out by Vics old place.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 08, 2018, 08:03 AM:
It's kind of ironic how "Detroit" and the rest of them have pushed Shade Tree mechanics out of the way. I did something for my mom's Ford once and to get at the problem, I had to dismantle half the damned engine compartment. Oh yeah, getting at the fuel pump on my Suburban, total pain in the ass, not to mention pulling the gas tank to get at that sock filter.
These wizzkid automotive engineers have put a damper on a lot of my vehicle maintenance, and granted, you have to have the inclination in the first place besides financial incentives.
An example. When I first ordered the truck I'm driving, a Nissan, I actually considered crank windows and I don't remember how many weeks it delayed delivery but forgot it after just a few days. Well, for a few years now, the door windows have been a little unresponsive, even tripped the thermal overloads and had to wait....to continue. This is still happening, I had to take the whole damned door apart to get it started manually after hitting rock bottom, (and not by me, I knew better).
So a month or two ago I took it to the dealer and asked them to grease the guides and rails on both doors, to help the motors. They didn't do that however. They recommended both window motors be replaced. They are $640 each. I said fuck that. And since they only took one door apart, it cost $150 labor, which I paid and the assholes, while they had it apart, didn't even grease the skids! I KNOW this is beneficial, but the tech decided the motors were worn out so why screw with it, I guess? I'm going to be careful, but dismantling the friggin door is such chore I'll probably bite the bullet and pay to have it done, unless I trade it soon?
Short reply is, they don't make any of this easy, especially if you don't view it as fun, in the first place. And, they are actively and seriously discouraging home repairs more involved than changing the oil, and what the hell do we do with those 6 quarts of environmental problem anymore? I just don't dig it anymore.
Dave has a few years, although he's prosperous and can afford to pay for repairs; at some point, I bet he will decide to drop it off and pick it up, instead of getting his hands dirty?
Good hunting. El Bee
PS looking at that head, didn't straight 6 cylinder engines go out with high buttoned shoes? My dad had a 1954 Bel Air with a six cylinder engine, brand new and I think the next year they came out with the V8? I don't know, but has Chevrolet sold a car with a 6 cyl engine in 60 years, more or less? Ford, even longer? The last respectable straight 6 might have been a Hudson?
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 08, 2018, 09:41 AM:
No the last respectable straight six was the Jeep 4.0. Mine is the last of them in '06.
Believe me if I could afford to pay someone else to do this shit I would. Well, if I could afford it AND I could trust someone else.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 08, 2018, 10:51 AM:
Duly noted
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 08, 2018, 01:07 PM:
Oh almost forgot, Dan, LS is what they call small block Chevy motors these days .
- DAA
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on September 08, 2018, 06:42 PM:
Good luck on this project.
Between the floors & this your wearing me out !!
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 08, 2018, 07:14 PM:
It's wearing me out too Dave! Got projects lined up as far out as I can see though. Need a break...
So I had freshening up the cooling system on my list for this fall anyway. So I flushed the system before I started, while I have it all apart I'm putting in new water pump, fan clutch etc.
But I have been wanting to pull the radiator out for awhile anyway. Because I knew what it would look like. And I was right.
Between that, and the sage brush that collects on the skid plate around the muffler, it's no wonder my Jeep always smells like the desert. The desert full of cigar smoke...
Anyway... Pulled all the lifters out today, they look fine. Cam lobes look good. That's a relief. But it means I still don't know what caused the burnt valve. Took the head to the machine shop this morning, hoping that valve is cracked so I know what happened. Hoping the head is NOT cracked, of course. Just have to wait a few days and see what the machine shop finds.
They said they'd have it done mid week. So, next weekend it all goes back together. Then I can start worrying about that input shaft bearing in the transmission. Supposed to take special tools to get to and it probably does. I'll pull the trans out and at least have a look see though.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 08, 2018, 10:10 PM:
Dave, do you burn premium gas in your Jeep? 🚙
Is that problem valve exhaust, I assume?
It’s amazing your engine didn’t overheat, with the condition of the radiator.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 09, 2018, 04:28 AM:
Leonard, all I've ever used in it is 85 octane. Except when I go to places that don't sell lower than 87. First tier gas only, but never wasted any money on premium for it.
- DAA
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 09, 2018, 04:31 AM:
Oh, and yup, exhaust.
Agreed, must be a pretty robust cooling system to have soldiered through with that burden!
That stuff in there is mostly cheat grass seed too, BTW. You already know how I feel about cheat grass.
- DAA
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on September 09, 2018, 07:55 AM:
Nice work Dave. Jeeps! It's a love/hate relationship. Everybody in the world has a damn Jeep now, at least 5 neighbors have one, either new or old. I was checking out a couple at a little impromptu Jeep meet at Autozone the other day that had LS swaps and that's pretty badass. Hell they should just build them that way at the factory.
Those 4.0's can take some abuse though. And the parts are relatively cheap? Assuming they will deck the head a bit? How much can you go on those? Everyone says they are not interference fit engine but I've heard opposite as well?
Mark
Edit. Helping my kid put on bumpers tire carrier and steps on his today...I'm tired already.
[ September 09, 2018, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 09, 2018, 09:16 AM:
Mark, yeah the Old 4.0 is a really solid motor. Most go past 200K without ever needing to be opened up. Just not quite meant to be with mine I guess. But, other that the one bad exhaust valve, everything looks really, really good. Very clean and little wear anywhere. It's got 112K on it.
Parts are "relatively" cheap for it, too.
Even though all of the other 11 valves leak tested in great shape at between 5% and 8% leakdown, I decided to have the full monte done on the head. Getting all new everything, all the machine work, vacuum and flow tested etc. It does have 112K on it and it's going to the machine shop anyway. What the hell, I guess. That will come to about $300. If, my head is cracked, the replacement I'll buy is $480 shipped, that's a new, not reman casting, fully loaded ready to drop on.
Head gasket set, $100. I sprang for new head bolts, $30, even though they are reusable one time. I wanted to make a thread chaser and a couple alignment studs out of the old ones anyway.
New lifters, $80.
The exhaust flange bolts fought me hard coming out and the threads were flattened so I decided to bend over and pay the dealer $40 for four bolts and four clips. It will make putting them back in a lot easier and if I ever need to take them out again it will be one of the best $40 I ever spent .
Burning up some incidentals, shop rags, carb cleaner, assembly lube etc. but that's all stuff I have on hand.
I should be in this repair $550 if my head is good.
You can spend like $1500 for a bare Edelbrock or Hesco head, and many hundreds more on top of that to convert to roller rockers.
But the gains aren't nearly worth it. And, in fact, the gains are mostly HP and in the higher RPM range. You'll lose some smooth idle, off idle torque and throttle response. Which, are three things the stock 4.0 is pretty much unbeatable for in factory trim and the three main ingredients of the 4.0's offroad awesomeness. I just makes lots of smooth, tractable grunt right off idle. That's the shit for tough technical terrain.
I'd trade all that in a heartbeat for a 6.0 LS though .
The 4.0 definitely is not an interference motor.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 09, 2018, 09:46 AM:
I have scanned reports on rugged group jeep trails before. Accidentally. I don't go out of my way seeking them. You know what I mean, 15-20 jeeps navigating some of the worst terrain imaginable and I guess they induce/encourage some non jeep vehicle to accompany the group, just for laughs.
On these trips, there will be several major breakdowns, all taken in good spirits, kind of exciting, sorta and of course they all pitch in to help salvage the cripples.
While I'm sure the object is survival and completion, point A to point B, it's the experience they savor!
Dave, you already said, it can't be understood, you just must believe, or something like that? For me, just as soon as I have to drop it in 4 wheel low, I'm looking for an exit. The endurance test including the skill to navigate is beyond my comfort zone.
It's like camping for camping's sake. I love campaign on a fishing trip, or hunting, or digging artifacts, but to get out in the woods and pitch a tent, and then WHAT?
So, I kinda feel the same way about getting into terrain that is sure to twist the motor mounts off the frame. This is personal philosophy, if it's the Rockies or the Sierra's then maybe it should be hiking rather than taking vehicles where they shouldn't go.
I've seen abandoned vehicles, 2 wheel drive, of course, 1919 or so, and so stuck and buried where they can never be retrieved. I've almost lost a couple trucks down a canyon that could only be recovered with a helicopter....maybe? Oh, and the time I came within inches of falling into a damn river 50 feet below.
Anyway, my comments are not to insult or annoy, but as you said; don't try to understand it, you either get it or ya don't.
One other thing. Having screwed around a little in the Army, (unauthorized stuff), I have seen what the 1/4 ton can do and it ain't much compared to a Duce and a Half. The Jeep is the first thing stuck, sometimes requiring 2 or 3 tank retrievers single file to get them unstuck, but I'm starting to exaggerate. Those things happen when "our" money is not involved, and then who gives a shit?
Anyway, I'm too timid and hate to walk out; that sums it up. Also done that. Yes, that time in the Okefinokie, (phonetic spelling) moving two vehicles by myself (joyriding) took me all night but I did it, slogging through snake infested swamp. eek!
What the hell was I thinking, anyway?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on September 09, 2018, 10:30 AM:
Yeah, I cant see them being interference motors, but have seen guys say they are. Ive bent valves on an interference engine...once. Timing belt broke, fucked it all up. I hate timing belts.
Leonard, I do see your point, but offroading is super popular. People crawl there rigs over rocks...because they are there. Overlanding is more of something I would be interested in, if I had the time and interest. One of my buds does that. I know guys that dropped 60k on a new Jeep and drove it straight up to the Rubicon or down to Johnson Valley and beat the shit out of them. Well, if you know what you are doing and with some luck you dont really beat em up, but carnage is always possible. The guy I bought my Heap Cherokee from had 2 brand new Jeeps sitting in his garage, getting ready to wheel the shit out of them. It was almost sickening!
Mark
Edit..this..on top of the tile project you just done..your a beast!
[ September 09, 2018, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 09, 2018, 02:03 PM:
Leonard, I get not getting it. No worries.
I don't do that much technical wheeling just to go wheeling. But I do sometimes. It's fun.
What I do a heckuva lot of, is what Mark referred to as overlanding. That's what the internet kids started calling it about ten years ago or so. But I do a LOT of that. And some of it does require 4Lo, but generally not very technical.
I do most of it solo. Or at least single vehicle with Tim as a passenger - but he gets bored if there's nothing to hunt so he doesn't go often. Need a capable, reliable, rig you can work on if you have to, heading out into some of that stuff by yourself. Helps to be borderline idiot sometimes too .
I also use 4Lo fairly frequently while out calling. Which, I don't say lightly. That Jeep can easily get through all kinds of stuff in 2Hi that a lot of vehicles go to 4Lo for.
Most common scenario where I use Lo while calling, are washouts. Old, rarely used two tracks. Dead end at a washout. Might have been washed out for decades. Probably why they are rarely used now. I have dropped down into and climbed back out of some gullies that would curl your toenails .
Stuff lesser vehicles or less adventurous drivers just turn around and say fuck that. I smile and put it in 4Lo .
Get into some un-disturbed stuff that way. Fairly often. Have to pull winch cable only occasionally.
Oh, kind of different subject, but I only do a few group runs a year. I'm almost always leading them for some reason. But often as not, I'm the only Jeep in the group. Most of the guys I go out and do stuff like that with are Toyota through and through. Hardcore Toyota. Up until a month ago I've been daily driving a 100 series Land Cruiser myself for many years. Hella capable and tough vehicles. Super popular with the hip internet overlanding crowd. And the real deal just go out and do it and don't post shit about it crowd too. Gave it to my daughter just recently though.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 09, 2018, 04:13 PM:
But, I get all that, Dave.
If it has a hunting purpose, I'm on board.
But, speaking of stuff you aren't into; contests. It's a matter of diminishing returns. If you have a 3 hour difficult drive to get out of there, you must consider making check in, or it's all a waste. You know? You can't just drive faster when the trail will not allow it.
I have got into some pretty snotty stuff, and have busted motor mounts. When I recognize certain terrain, I stop and make a stand, (why not?) then turn it around. I wouldn't say it amounts to skimming the cream, but then again, for a fact, in Nevada, sometimes the further you get from pavement, the action drops off. I'm speaking of the night shift.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on September 10, 2018, 04:16 AM:
Good luck Dave I don't envy you , was a time that reaming ridge's and honing cylinders was my thing now I dread oil changes which living where I do is necessary cant stop at the jiffy lube lol. And Leonard that inline six is the best thing for a Jeep my last jeep a cj 5 had a V8 with headers a high rise manifold and Holley double pumper would pass anything on the road but a gas station. would have been perfect with a six !
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on September 11, 2018, 07:59 AM:
DAA,
The 4.0L is a good motor, and while the LS is too I have done a shit load of cams in those and if you decide to go that way I would highly suggest you do a AFM delete on it mechanically. Cause if it fails and it will. You'll wish you had that 4.0 back when you put a cam in it. Exhaust manifolds, plenuem, heads, oil pan, front of engine etc. etc. to change a cam. Yep its a fucked up design.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 14, 2018, 01:55 PM:
Have heard that about the LS Brent. A bridge I hope to cross someday .
The 4.0 is all back together. Got about 50 miles on it, so far, so good. Idles very smooth and quiet. No new noises. No leaks. Oil is staying where it should. Running maybe a needles width cooler on the idiot gauge than before.
We'll just have to see how it holds up.
Machine shop said just a sunken valve seat. Said he sees that a lot on these heads. All new hardened seats now, should be good to go for awhile.
- DAA
Posted by earthwalker (Member # 4177) on September 14, 2018, 03:14 PM:
That looks easy. What to help me get a CJ2A 1947 up and running?
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 15, 2018, 03:45 AM:
I'd love to get a CJ2A running! Those old flat fenders are the coolest. Probably wouldn't be that hard to just "get running". Road worthy be a whole different subject!
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 15, 2018, 09:31 AM:
I think he just said: Sure, I'd love to help!
Posted by earthwalker (Member # 4177) on September 20, 2018, 10:38 AM:
You lift the hood up and go where's the engine compared to these new vehicles.
It's the original 4 cylinder engine. I know it hasn't ran in 40 years now. I use to think it was big now that I'm older and bigger(no snickers from the peanut gallery) it's actually small.
Can't wait to get it running and hear that old jeep sound. A lot of deer and hunters have been hauled in that jeep.
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