This is topic Tell me about epidermal? in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2019, 08:57 AM:
First off. My back has been really bothering me the past 3 months. I have this spinal stenosis but pretty much under control until recent.
I had a consultation yesterday with a doctor that I saw 5 years ago, and he reminded me of what I said when he suggested this treatment at the time: "I'll think about it."
So, this has been quite a while without relief so, (and I hate needles) but might be time to try something else, right?
He referred me to another hospital out in Fontana and apparently the Dr that sticks the needle requires I first get
an MRI, which is fine by me. In the meantime, he also said I could try acupuncture,.(this Dr was Asian, BTW) I'm thinking about it.
I can get all of it easy enough but apparently, the epidural department is booked pretty solid and I can't get in there until April.
Meantime, I went to Grove diagnostics while on the way home from the appointment, and stopped at the records department and inquired about the 3 MRI's I had several years ago, which they found, were in 2009. This was when I had a different insurance company. I was only there 15 minutes, in a room with about 40 people and walked out with my CD, which I'm going to bring to my MRI for comparative reasons, to see just how much worser I have got. Just a thought.
So, I'm getting feedback. One woman told me that I should lay flat on my back for three days after the injection. And, by the way, this is going to be a three shot series spaced over a year.
My daughter said that my son in law had 2 or 3 epidurals and has not had a problem with his back ever since. Another said she had 6 and they were all just temporary relief. I guess it's painful?
So, what's the considered opinion of the Peanut Gallery? Witch Doctor practices or swear by it, shrug or can't hurt?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 12, 2019, 09:19 AM:
From what I hear the Laser Spine Institute in Scottsdale one inch incision and back on your feet the same day Pain free !
[ March 12, 2019, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2019, 11:01 AM:
Yeah, but. That screams: TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!
Is it a million dollar treatment?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ March 12, 2019, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 12, 2019, 02:01 PM:
Have you looked into it ?
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 12, 2019, 02:08 PM:
https://www.laserspineinstitute.com/?utm_source=youtube_background
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2019, 10:55 PM:
Huh, couldn’t open it?
But you are suggesting I drive 350 miles? My KaiserPermanente isn’t in AZ, you know.
And I was just texting with my daughter a few hours ago and we both were of the opinion, surgery of any kind, last resort.
I did already ask about laser, but they have their steps. I can’t say they ruled out anything including acupuncture or cyropractic.
I’ll think about it
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 13, 2019, 04:55 PM:
Been through this a number of times. I have stenosis in my lumbar, upper thoracic, and cervical spines. Started as congenital, only made worse by carrying mail.
The laser surgery is effective on herniated or burst discs but cleaning up stenosis is a whole other matter. I know people who have done all of the above.
Epidurals can be a pretty good deal. No one worth their salt will do an epidural unless and until they see a current MRI to pinpoint exactly where the impingement is along the nerve. This gives them what they need to to target and hit that target EXACTLY. I've had a couple instances when I was in being evaluated for shots/no shots and the anesthesiologist told me flat out that the discomfort I was feeling wasn't to the point where the potential benefits outweighed the risks. SO, if the time comes that the dr tells you he thinks it's time, it's worth considering.
As to the shots. They can hurt like hell when they're being given, and they can be next to nothing at all. I've had one round of two, three weeks apart, for left side sciatica. Shot in my lower back, just left of my spine. He blocked the area with a tiny needle then went in with the real deal. I'm not gonna lie and say it didn't hurt. On a scale of 1-10, it was "shitting nekid babies" painful. But, the shot is quick. Well, actually, it's about six shots given very rapidly. The block gave me about an hour to get home until it wore off and by then, I was on the sofa downstairs in the family room. I didn't use heat or cold for the first 24 hours, then I could use either one. I hurt like hell for two days, crawling to the bathroom and the like, but on the third day, I woke up and the pain was gone. Not had a flare up since.
Have had 2 rounds of three epidurals each in my neck due to a bulged disc right at the bottom of the c-spine. You can feel that point by the bump that rises up on the back of your neck when you put your chin to your chest. One shot each time, two weeks between shots. The first shot was a big dose of steroid. The second shot was considerably less, and the third was the same as the second.
Here;s what they do for that. They place you between two sides of a fluoroscope - a real-time X-ray machine. The person giving the shot cleans the area and administers a numbing shot to bock the surface nerves.
After a few minutes, he comes back and begins by inserting a needle right over the spot where the medicine needs to be injected. Getting it into the right place and depth takes several very tiny moves and, as creepy as it sounds, you can feel the needle piercing every layer of fascia as it goes in. No pain with this. This needle is a guide needle through which the actual injection needle is placed.
Once in place, he comes back with the syringe of the steroid and inserts it into the sleeve, all the while watching the needle approach the nerve. Once he has it exactly where he wants it, he'd give me a warning that "Here comes some pressure". You can feel the space around the nerve and disc bulge with the injection and you deal feel some pain that really does feel like pressure. On the last one, I had a flash of sharp pain, maybe a 2 or 3 on the 1-10 scale, go vertically up to my head and down to my tailbone, then just as quick, the same sort of flash spasm go horizontal to both shoulders, and then we were done. I was a bit stiff afterwards and took it easy for the rest of the day but really didn't need to. Both times, the first two shots didn't do much, but the third wiped out the pain completely.
The alternative is surgery which I don't want. In my case, they'd have to make incisions through the front of my neck on either side of my windpipe, go in, remove the disc, insert a surgical prosthesis where that disc was and finish by fusing the vertebra above and below the new "disc" with a titanium plate and screws.
I've had friends who have had stenosis cleaned out and the tech today for this is remarkable. Results are almost immediate but some post-op discomfort. Your doctor can give you a pretty good idea of what to expect. Given the history you've shared in the past, I'd ask the doctor what he'd do if it were him making the decision and go for it.
If I failed to answer a question, please ask. My career has put me under the knife four times with knee surgeries, and God only knows how many shots I've had in my knees, feet and hands. My doctor for this is one of the best in the country and I trust him explicitly. Each treatment has ended well.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 13, 2019, 05:10 PM:
I would like to add one more not so brief point. If you hurt, something isn't right. I hurt my knee six months after being released from having it scoped to return to full duty. Hurt like a bitch. The ortho I was seeing at the time gave me a shot that didn't work. He ordered an MRI and saw nothing unusual. when I asked him what was next, he told me nothing, that was just my knee and I'd have to learn to live with it. I walk for a living and it wouldn't bear weight. A customer on my route referred me to another orthopod. He examined me, gave me a shot and did an MRI. Same deal. Unremarkable. Then, he told me somewthing. He said, "Well, you're not supposed to hurt like this so I think we need to go in and put eyes on it." Treat the patient, not the technology. Novel idea. Turns out the cartilage was torn all to hell in there and two MRI's failed to show that.
Fast forward a year. My wife falls on the ice and her shoulder hurts bad. Her doctor refers her to my first orthopod and he gives her a shot that does nothing, does an MRI that shows nothing, and tells her to suck it up. I called bullshit and called my new ortho and got her right in. He examines her, injects her shoulder, and three days later, no change in pain."Call them back". She does, they tell her to come right. They have the MRI ready and waiting. Shows nothing. Dr comes in and tells us there's nothing to see but, "You shouldn't be hurting like this. I think we need to scope it." Again, treat the patient; not the technology.
She has surgery and in the post-op consult, he shows me where he found a torn rotator cuff, torn ligament, ruptured bursa and a bone chip from her clavicle. None of that showed up on two MRI's.
Moral of the story: If you hurt, something isn't right and you shouldn't have to live with it. You need to be your own advocate and take a stand.
When my 80 year old MIL wasn't getting better and her dr was just dismissing her complaints as "getting old", she asked for my help. I went with her and stood behind her with my arms folded across my chest giving the dr what my family calls "the look". He ended up ordering tests for shit we'd never heard of. LOL
ADVOCATE and fight for proper treatment. Treat the patient and don't allow them to rely solely on the technology. It can fail!
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 14, 2019, 04:24 AM:
After my battle with cancer I have come to the conclusion that doctors don't give a shit if you live or die. When is my tee time and where did I park the Mercedes ! Even when they are not lying they don't tell the truth ! Lance my wife was my advocate and she's a tuff bitch !
[ March 14, 2019, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 14, 2019, 07:41 AM:
Paul, my goodness, that's a harsh attitude! You must have had some faith while that doc was working on you? Only his Tee time? I could probably admit it's a bit of a crapshoot. Maybe like; Open Sesame! I've had doctors that seemed to go right to the problem and a few that didn't know where to start. But maybe it was my fault? If I can't define the situation accurately, what's he supposed to do? "Get out of here, you knucklehead!" (Bill Murray)
Are you sure momma would appreciate being called a tuff bitch? OK, carry on.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 15, 2019, 03:22 AM:
Out of that whole fiasco I had one good doctor she was hired by Johns Hopkins and quickly went to Baltimore a real shithole ! To run their head and neck dept. ! I had a reconstructive surgeon that could not see his error and left me with a feeding tube for over a year because the titanium plates he put in my manufactured jaw would not heal he kept blaming me saying I was eating and keeping them from healing My primary doc removed them healed in a week ! That feeding tube caused many problems I still struggle with today ,fuck him!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2019, 07:46 AM:
I'll never understand why a good doctor would leave AZ for Baltimore? I just don't think I would ever feel like kissing you, with or without a feeding tube. That's a revolting comment, for several reasons! I just can't imagine the shit you have been through! You must be a tough SOB! Actually, I'm pretty sure of that.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 15, 2019, 09:28 AM:
She grew up there its where her family is she was alone out here and head of the dept. at Johns Hopkins is quite a Prestigious post. She was a hottie by the way !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2019, 01:27 PM:
Oh man! Say no more! That's like my gastroenterologist. Dr Janet Yang. She is a hottie! Tall, slim, as only an Asian can do it. But, 100% American. A real Doll Babe. And, she has poked that scope up my ass, so we are sort of in a relationship.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 16, 2019, 03:34 AM:
That's funny !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2019, 08:07 AM:
I've been meaning to ask her if I could take a Selfie with her, but I'm too embarrassed. I have an appointment coming up, always look forward to it with her. I know she likes me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I have a girlfriend out in the Valley. When I mention Dr Yang, I deliberately say, "yeah, I saw Janet the other day or, Janet said bla bla bal" and she (GF) has a little demonstration/that's disrespectful, you should call her Dr Yang! I just act like, oh, yeah sorry, I meant "DOCTOR Yang."
But, do any of you guys remember the asian chick in the James Bond Movie SKYFALL? There you go; that's Janet. I'm in love!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 17, 2019, 04:16 PM:
Compromise and call her Dr. Janet. LOL
I remember that period, Paul. Sounds like you really had a go of it.
I think we tend to misinterpret how a doctor acts as being who they are rather than the product of what they are forced to endure. Those guys are given very little time to figure out or entire world, often with barely a fraction of the facts in front of them. I cant tell you the number of times I'd bring in a patient who I had questioned during my assessment and treatment only to hear him give a completely different version to the receiving ER nurse who, to their dismay, watches the patient tell yet a third version to the dr when he walks in. And it isn't about the little shit, either. The details s/he usually withheld were critical to what I was expected to do in the field.
I know a couple different drs with whom I used to work and they are vastly different when we run into one another on the street. A lot of the pressure they're under comes from two sources - the bean counters, and the government/ insurance companies. Most would like to be able to sit and get the whole 9 yards from you but they're on a ten-minute time limit per patient, and please limit it to one chief complaint please. Mine's office has gone to interacting with us via a patient portal online. If we need an appointment, send them an email through the PP. Questions about whatever's hurting us? Send them ahead of the appointment through the PP. No need to do a follow up appointment - they just send me an email to have me go to the PP and see my test results. Questions or concerns? Reply to them. Had a reaction to meloxicam recently. Opted to stop it myself, sent my doc an email telling him so and why. By the end of the day, he replied that this was fine and asked if I wanted to try something else. Just let him know and he'd prescribe it.
People get so unhinged over healthcare. Recently, A woman I knew turned to FB to lam blast our local hospital because of how much she was charged for an Xray compared to the urgent care clinic down the road. I just went on by not having the heart to tell her that the price difference had nothing to do with the hospital and everything to do with her crappy insurance. She eventually calmed down and left it behind. Still wondering if she figured that out. Or not. She's a hotty, too (latina) and even if I am marrified, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy when she singles me out to say "hi". LOL It's tough being a dude and I don't want her pissed at me for something like that. (shrugs)
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on March 18, 2019, 05:05 AM:
I get your point Lance I should have said most Doctors ! I have a friend that is a retired surgical nurse he concurs with my opinion !
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 27, 2019, 06:32 AM:
It has been my experience that my doctors regard epidurals as the last ditch effort to control severe pain that has not responded to other therapies. In this day of defensive medicine where doctors are acutely aware of the role they've played in the ongoing opiate crisis, they're quick to steer you toward other treatments like physical therapy, which for me, is a waste of time. I can't afford 3 $30 co-pays a week for the next six months just so the pain can "get worse before it gets better" and then never helps at all. I've had more shots than I can count now. Feet, knees, lumbar, neck, and if I stay the course on how we're treating my ongoing pain that just seems to be spreading, will very quickly include several fingers and both wrists. But, we're taking a different approach.
My pain levels have been increasing steadily and localizing in specific areas in the past couple months. Patterns were emerging clearly enough that I spent the morning yesterday with my doctor's PA. I like her, she's sharp. Took a look at my chief complaints of pain as a whole, looked at my hands and knees and flat out told me that I'm going to a rheumatologist. Thinks I have one of either rheumatoid, inflammatory, or psoriatric arthritis, so they drew lab and X-rayed my "everything" yesterday and we're awaiting the results. If possible, and she's betting they will be one way or another, I'm headed to the specialist, and the sooner the better. Will be very happy to give this a name and have a way to treat it. Jokingly told my dr a while back that I need a street source for black market prednisone. Some people can't tolerate the stuff. I loooooooove it. At 6-9 pills a day, I'm pain free. Makes me grouchy and hungry, but I don't hurt.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2019, 09:39 AM:
I have to attend a class on May 1st that is a prerequisite to getting the epidurals. In this case, their policy is 3 injections spaced out over a year, then evaluate results.After that, the dreaded "S" word.
I'm reluctant but realize that at some point, they could easily decide to restrict my pain meds, for my own good, you know?
Good hunting. El Bee
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